The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

I've seen a video posted here of someone getting ~9k segments before the 25% bonus at the end, so that would've been >10k with the new system.
The problem is more with people defining that "average", it falls under the same bias of someone WSing for 60k once and saying they WS for 60k average.
It doesn't really work like that?


About that run:
1) They skipped many rooms, but got lucky enough to find ALL the NM pops and ALL the Halos present in rooms they didn't skip
2) They found only easy mobs, none of the annoying NMs that people use to skip were close to NM pops or Halos

Those two aspects are huge if you ask me, we're talking about something that can easily generate like 2k segments difference.
Other than that they displayed an unusually high coordination among them. Considering it was a PUG, it was quite surprising.

I didn't say it's impossible, just unlikely. But I still very much doubt groups getting 13k segments can do it without JA0 or flee hacks usage until there's any kind of proof.

I can say that 10k is doable as an average (including end goal) without anything worse than gearswap, with 12k+ also possible but very rare. I've never seen 13k (or the equivalent 10.5k while touching exit before update) like that even as a miraculous high end.

Do people feel like JA0 is worse then gearswap?

Gearswap can allow you to automate a lot.

Most people consider stuff like JA0 and Anchor to be worse than gearswap, yes. I don't use any of them, but some in my group use gearswap.

Ja0wait in Segments farm let you get to target that autotarget switch to like 2sec faster (assuming you killed and get locked with WS). Thats massive across full run. Also gearswap is a tool. You need to use lua with a lot of automatization to take advantage of automatization. Basic function of gearswap are definitely not as bad as JA0wait, which in its basic function allows you to cheat the game mechanics.

I am pretty aggressive when I play BRD in Odyssey, but if I was within 1-4% of the main DD I wouldn't say I was good, I would question the DD I was with. Usually my 9-10k runs are something like

WAR - 31-32% - 5M damage
DRG - 31-32% - 5M Damage
BRD - 20%~ - 3M Damage
COR - 20%~ - 3M Damage

We run Clarions + 5 songs on floor 1 and never go down, seems too much of a time waste. Then do the rest everyone else does. I am not saying BRD isn't a great asset damage wise in Odyssey, or that I could not do better. But I just don't see how Bard can be anywhere near the levels of a good DRG or WAR either.

There are groups pulling 12K+ on a very consistent basis without using speed hacks, but unfortunately, as Thorny mentioned, you're not likely to find a publicly available video because of how aggressively JP vanilla white knight Twitter groups are mass reporting people.

This is close to what our parse spreads look like, but our COR and BRD inch a 1-3% percent closer in unison to WAR and DRG from time to time..

Our Group expresses this consistently when our top COR and BRD are there:

WAR - 27-29%
DRG - 27-29%
BRD - 22-23%~
COR - 22-23%~

You guys definitely closed the gaps though between BRD and COR and that makes a huge impact, and props to you for that..

Your parse data expresses really good correlative consistent patterns that shows up in Parse regardless of how inaccurate it is in showing Top DPS as Top/Total DPS is always erroneous and we all agree with that..

Just with the spread you have, I can definitely see a definitive great pattern here in your group..

Where's Wally?

We've been streaking as of late and our #s at end are going up,(6-7k avg) and with DD BRD in mind, we have significantly smoother runs if BRD just BRD's stuff. I'm a fan of lazyBRD/whm where (of course, I'm the BRD-.-) intense situations require control and deliberate kill orders, and the occasional free-for-all on trash, if anything left from main DD. BRD/whm is also a golden opportunity to exploit Daybreak during fetters, once tanks have Nostos/trash grouped/ZZZ'd and dispelga3x leaves them primed for DPS to move through. BRD imo has been a pita to maintain TP/AG on one specific wep, and make easier targets out of w/e party is on. BattleBRD is great when it's not overwhelmed with usual BRDing shite~ Cheers, and wishing the community continued success.

If you are on BRD for segments and not doing DPS you aren't doing anything except wasting segments. I just finished a run where I avg 34k WSD, that is going to add a lot of segments / boss runs over time. No need to maintain AG (carn is trash as a weapon in 90% of cases), just swap between naegling and a strong dagger (aeneas, twash, etc).

Yeah I can attest having an excellent DD BRD makes a huge difference. All my 11k+ runs have been with DD BRD, and it's very noticeable when the BRD doesn't DD.

I'm also a big fan of BRD/WHM but when i say that, i mean comp as: PLD BRD DD DD DD COR.

With that in mind you get 1 extra 2H DD (SAM WAR DRK, or a 2nd Cor works nicely too keeping warcry up just about every camp + 4 rolls) in place of a WHM or SCH which makes a huge impact on clearing camps quickly thus saving time. PLD is basically the main healer with the BRD just there to help with some healing -na here and there and curaga to wake people up. Of course this comp requires dd's to bring their own remedies, which decent players should already be doing.

This comp credit goes out to @Dade and his group which they usually net 10-12k segs consistently. I replicated said setup to some success with my group but not consistent. Due to duo-boxing PLD + BRD when we did this setup. My downfall for this was usually timing for re-songs timer that i usually run into. Where i would need to resong everyone, while also needing to pull at the same time. Which isn't optimal on time whether which decision i choose to do first since i try to keep SV songs on as long as possible if we still have SV songs going. SO that greed for SV uptime sometimes put me in a tight spot for resong timers to not lose 5th song, for trying not to overwrite SV songs too early.


DPS spread number usually look like the following:

DD1: 5-6M
DD2: 5-6M
DD3: 5-6M
COR: 3.5-4.5M

Use the spread number as a reference but not for granted. Parse spreads usually references off of engage uptime. When i say that, alot of people tend to spend time searching for UNM/Halo when a full fodders camp you can clear within a minute or so is worth comparatively rather then spending that minute running around looking for UNM/Halo. With the exception of clots.


More notes:

* Pre-buff Regen V + Haste before entry
* SV songs are HM/Min5/4/3/Herc Etudes , Minne 5 + Ballad 3 on PLD
* Cor CC BRD immediately after initial SV/CC (If 4 or higher will guarantee a 2nd SV songs without WC)
* First floor rolls: Crooke SAM + Fighter, 2nd onward Chaos + SAM
* Tab target WS! Highly important! Doing 1 WS and mobs drop to 10% HP, don't waste dmg output doing another 40-60k ws on the same mob! Tab target WS another mob!

TL;DR
BRD/WHM IS GREAT! With the right comp! But if taking a WHM or SCH already, it's not very optimal.

EDIT: This was being done before PLD cure changes

Do you pop the random NMs (with izzats) in your runs at 11k+ ?

For 12k+ runs they need to pop random NMs so ?

They need to be using ja0wait which might as well be flee hacking.
And thats like everyone so seems kinda silly to brag.

No, because that could potentially slow you down if you randomly pop the wrong NM (Adamantoise (Uses invincible, wipes rolls/songs), Hydra (Uses Invincible, Physical Damage shield for 1min), Khimaira (uses PD, bad AOE).

You also have to consider the Izzat cost. Its 10 Izzat to pop a random NM, which yields the same Segments as a spawnable NM using materials (based on floor). 10 Izzat also gives you 200 segments if you pop 2 chests, and it's the safer option altogether (plus you can do it while time runs out). The same can't be done with Random NM.

Now you could strategically plan to pop the harder ones one floor 1-2, and leave the random rift ones up top on the higher floors, which would yield more segments for the kills vs chests. IMHO, it's not worth taking that kind of risk just for a few hundred more segments. You would be better off just killing one more Nostos group.

TLDR; Just slaughter everything on C1+2, C3+4 make an effort to kill both the Halo+NM, and add as many groups as you can before warping up to C4. Then repeat with Halo+NM and as many groups as you can on your way to the end. Spend Izzat generously throughout the run, don't wait until the end. That means killing groups you would have normally skipped, because there's a chest sitting between them and it will save you the trouble of finding a chest later when time is low.

Pretty sure they nerfed vere/ Ukkon, when ws's were only attached on empys i think rudra too

One of the adoulin reward rings originally had 3 dt II and it got changed, so yes they have nerfed things.

They didn't nerf Verethragna or Ukonvasara, they nerfed the Crit rate of Ukko's Fury and Victory Smite, it's different.

As far as the Adoulin Ring goes I don't think they nerfed the ring, it was an error in the description I think? Small thing either way.

Considering the number of sources of dt2 anything having (mistakenly having) vs not is kind of a nerf. Particularly a piece of all jobs gear. Whether it's a minor or major amount it's a Stat that is universally useful as well. I'd call it a nerf if they said a piece has x and everyone wants it and then say oops that was our mistake. Doesn't change the fact that people would want an accessory with dt2.

1) We have to see if the stat was really changed (I seem to recall it was just a description change, not an effective change)

2) It's a small change either way c'mon. The discussion started with Naegling being too strong, someone asking for a small nerf and other people claiming that no single item in FFXI has ever been nerfed before, to date. If you see things like that I wouldn't really quote this item as an example because clearly it wasn't nerfed because it was too strong. (and again, point 1 still stands)

Like I mentioned back then, Twilight Scythe got nerfed into the ground.

If you don't honestly believe Naegling is overpowered and deserving of a nerf, you haven't the slightest clue about balance. More likely is that people are feeling dependant on it and can't fathom the thought of losing it, so they're in denial.

Whether SE does it or not is up to SE, but there's precedent and it's certainly a worthy target.

I don't think it's gonna happen, but I would welcome the change with open arms.

Either way they should tweak Naegling make it all jobs (it neutered DNC) or release R25 REMA to help combat how effective Naegling is.

Its the new Ridill on steroids.

How would you nerf it tho. It has already small bonus to Savage, going to 10% for example wouldn't be enough. Even going to no bonus wouldn't be enough. The problem is really WS itself given to jobs that shouldn't have access to it. Only solution is to nerf WS imo, not weapon or make Naegling only useable by jobs having Savage Blade natively, but I can already see people crying then, that x job still has access to Naegling while y job doesn't and how unfair is that. Blebleble

Removing the damage bonus and attack buff based on buffs would be a good start. Losing 30-40% attack would be pretty huge on any mob that nerfs geo bubbles.

Outside of that, I think TP Bonus on weapons should apply only to that specific weapon (or at least make it so normal weapons and ranged weapons don't give TP bonus to each other if you want to keep stuff like Thibron).