The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
For low hp while weakened it's easier to go the other way around: regen and hp items from curio moogle are cheap, you can use the strongest regen+6 drink and some vile elixir / potion and wear regen gear (on thf the cheap turms NQ is already regen+30). and you can add a free +3 on neck etc
Even if you don't have Turms, you can piece together a poor-man's Regen/PDT set using Meghanada +2/ring set. I just bring meds and use an average regen build and am usually fine. Thos elixirs go a long way. If you use Turms cap +1 (which is how I do my snooping around on THF), it gives a small amount of regain, which does help for quick waltzes you need here and there if you sub dnc for s/i.
I upgraded to Moogle Mastery V for Sheol B when I opened a Coffer this run. At that point, I had:
193 chests, 16 coffers (it was the 16th coffer), 1 strongbox, 7 NMs, 413 Nostos
idk guiz, I think that everything is just converted to points and strongboxes/NMs are worth a lot of points.
193 chests, 16 coffers (it was the 16th coffer), 1 strongbox, 7 NMs, 413 Nostos
idk guiz, I think that everything is just converted to points and strongboxes/NMs are worth a lot of points.
[+]
It could be a mix . . . in Sheol A I never did an Aurum Strongbox, have fewer than 10 coffers, and am rank 13 or 14
Or, that's why you don't have rank 15
They don't have to be ordered, MM #2 can be Strongbox, and you just didn't get that one yet.
They don't have to be ordered, MM #2 can be Strongbox, and you just didn't get that one yet.
[+]
One theory to be made is that aurum MM isnt just opening 1 aurum. Possibly is something like
X nostos (maybe 100?) = 1 MM
X chests = 1 MM
X chests + 10 coffers = 1 MM
X chests + 10 coffers + 1 aurum = 1 MM
This fits my own progress
X nostos (maybe 100?) = 1 MM
X chests = 1 MM
X chests + 10 coffers = 1 MM
X chests + 10 coffers + 1 aurum = 1 MM
This fits my own progress
All these things are the easiest things to verify. I'll never understand why you guys have such a hard time figuring them out.
It tells you exactly when you get a new MM level, it's an objective checklist.
No one ever gets one 'randomly' at 117 nostos, or at 11 chests or 200 (total) NMs. They're all set.
Never even done odyssey and I can tell just from the posts.
The same community that literally mapped every single crafting skill and sub skill level by trying to craft and recording the level at which something could be crafted can't figure out how odessey ranks up.
It tells you exactly when you get a new MM level, it's an objective checklist.
No one ever gets one 'randomly' at 117 nostos, or at 11 chests or 200 (total) NMs. They're all set.
Never even done odyssey and I can tell just from the posts.
The same community that literally mapped every single crafting skill and sub skill level by trying to craft and recording the level at which something could be crafted can't figure out how odessey ranks up.
No, its not that easy.
Because this achievement is one time only, also, the rank up message dont appear to all players, but the one who made the rank up action (for example, the one who killed the 100th mob or opened the aurum or the 10th coffer).
Also, most people who discuss this finding started pretty earlier so you can easily miss some chat information while youre exploring a new place. Also, people like me who multibox most likely will never notice a rank up if the one who achieved it is a mule you arent actually seeing.
Finally while important understanding in deep the information so we can guess future patterns, knowing if the nostos rank up comes from 97th or 102th kill doesntt matter, its information that around 100 you gonna get it. And as none says otherwise, its also a pretty reliable information, dont need to bring a new mule just to test this.
Because this achievement is one time only, also, the rank up message dont appear to all players, but the one who made the rank up action (for example, the one who killed the 100th mob or opened the aurum or the 10th coffer).
Also, most people who discuss this finding started pretty earlier so you can easily miss some chat information while youre exploring a new place. Also, people like me who multibox most likely will never notice a rank up if the one who achieved it is a mule you arent actually seeing.
Finally while important understanding in deep the information so we can guess future patterns, knowing if the nostos rank up comes from 97th or 102th kill doesntt matter, its information that around 100 you gonna get it. And as none says otherwise, its also a pretty reliable information, dont need to bring a new mule just to test this.
It is that simple. The moogle tells you what you've done right?
So if you go in with 99 nostos, 3 Chests and 10/11 NMs and you come out with MM +3 you know exactly how you got them. You just have to pay the absolute minimum amount of attention.
So if you go in with 99 nostos, 3 Chests and 10/11 NMs and you come out with MM +3 you know exactly how you got them. You just have to pay the absolute minimum amount of attention.
Except that's not enough, because higher MM levels require combinations of progress.
Let's say you have 60 NMs (6 kills of 10 different ones), 30 chests, 9 coffers and 500 nostos, and you get a rank up to MM10 upon your 10th coffer.
You know that you need 10 coffers for it, but all you know about the NM, chest, or nostos requirements are that they're equal to or lower than what you had.
It could be 6 kills of 9+ types, 15 chests, 10 coffers, and 200 nostos, or 6 kills of 1 NM type, 25 chests, 10 coffers, and 100 nostos, or any other of the countless valid combinations. There's also no way to rank down your progress, so to get exact values you'd need several different characters playing very specifically in order to hammer each level down to maximum specificity.
Let's say you have 60 NMs (6 kills of 10 different ones), 30 chests, 9 coffers and 500 nostos, and you get a rank up to MM10 upon your 10th coffer.
You know that you need 10 coffers for it, but all you know about the NM, chest, or nostos requirements are that they're equal to or lower than what you had.
It could be 6 kills of 9+ types, 15 chests, 10 coffers, and 200 nostos, or 6 kills of 1 NM type, 25 chests, 10 coffers, and 100 nostos, or any other of the countless valid combinations. There's also no way to rank down your progress, so to get exact values you'd need several different characters playing very specifically in order to hammer each level down to maximum specificity.
[+]
Yeah I don't think anybody is disputing the lower levels of MM being accomplished by single objective tasks. There is no question some MM ranks require at least some of the other objectives completed or partially done, though.
As an example
If Player A get a rank up from an aurum strongbox with 100 previous nostos kills (I'm just making this up) and Player B does not get the rank increase even though he also had an aurum strongbox with~50 nostos kills, it's very clear that aurum strongboxes give the level increase in addition to the >50 nostos kills objective that Player B doesn't have. This means he won't get the rank up until they fulfill the nostos objective. Which would look confusing to the player because they would think it was the >50-100~Nostos kills objective that gave the increase when it really was the aurum that they got in reverse order, and had to backtrack to fulfill the requirement before the game would acknowledge the MM level for the aurum strongbox clear.
So whatever the objectives are, they are set, sure, but like Geriond illustrated, there's definitely some cumulative objectives' requirement behind the scenes that accounts for at least some of the rank ups. That's the only way you could explain why one person gets an increase at one objective but another would not. If it was points based, you should theoretically be able to hit ranks without ever completing other objectives. Nobody has pointed out any examples of that being the case.
As an example
If Player A get a rank up from an aurum strongbox with 100 previous nostos kills (I'm just making this up) and Player B does not get the rank increase even though he also had an aurum strongbox with~50 nostos kills, it's very clear that aurum strongboxes give the level increase in addition to the >50 nostos kills objective that Player B doesn't have. This means he won't get the rank up until they fulfill the nostos objective. Which would look confusing to the player because they would think it was the >50-100~Nostos kills objective that gave the increase when it really was the aurum that they got in reverse order, and had to backtrack to fulfill the requirement before the game would acknowledge the MM level for the aurum strongbox clear.
So whatever the objectives are, they are set, sure, but like Geriond illustrated, there's definitely some cumulative objectives' requirement behind the scenes that accounts for at least some of the rank ups. That's the only way you could explain why one person gets an increase at one objective but another would not. If it was points based, you should theoretically be able to hit ranks without ever completing other objectives. Nobody has pointed out any examples of that being the case.
More particularly to disprove the point system, for Sheol A, several people were mentioning getting roadblocked by NM kills at higher levels, and when they mentioned getting certain MM upgrades after grinding NMs, it was always specific numbers of NMs at 6 kills (3 and 6, IIRC, but I'd have to look), with no one at all mentioning upgrades between these points (such as 4 NMs at 6 kills) as one would expect with a point system.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
It is that simple. The moogle tells you what you've done right?
So if you go in with 99 nostos, 3 Chests and 10/11 NMs and you come out with MM +3 you know exactly how you got them. You just have to pay the absolute minimum amount of attention.
So if you go in with 99 nostos, 3 Chests and 10/11 NMs and you come out with MM +3 you know exactly how you got them. You just have to pay the absolute minimum amount of attention.
Just got a MM increase immediately after killing an Agon Halo on F1
Screenshot is deceptive because it doesn't show timestamp, but I went from bottom of F1 to top of F1 after looking for the Agon. It was not from a Nostos and I did not kill any NMs nor open any chests (Only 413 Nostos kills as well).
Screenshot is deceptive because it doesn't show timestamp, but I went from bottom of F1 to top of F1 after looking for the Agon. It was not from a Nostos and I did not kill any NMs nor open any chests (Only 413 Nostos kills as well).
I don't know if it was already mentioned, but in B, ghosts don't aggro to low HP.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Just got a MM increase immediately after killing an Agon Halo on F1
Screenshot is deceptive because it doesn't show timestamp, but I went from bottom of F1 to top of F1 after looking for the Agon. It was not from a Nostos and I did not kill any NMs nor open any chests (Only 413 Nostos kills as well).
Screenshot is deceptive because it doesn't show timestamp, but I went from bottom of F1 to top of F1 after looking for the Agon. It was not from a Nostos and I did not kill any NMs nor open any chests (Only 413 Nostos kills as well).
That will be kinda hard as moogle dont track agon kills. But i always thought they should add a category just for that.
Last runs ive been doing i always start with an agon on floor 1 then opening chests with izzats. It wont be possible to me to know if the first agon gave me MM.
Agon monster kills count as Nostos. I don't know if Halos count, but now I assume they do.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I upgraded to Moogle Mastery V for Sheol B when I opened a Coffer this run. At that point, I had:
193 chests, 16 coffers (it was the 16th coffer), 1 strongbox, 7 NMs, 413 Nostos
idk guiz, I think that everything is just converted to points and strongboxes/NMs are worth a lot of points.
193 chests, 16 coffers (it was the 16th coffer), 1 strongbox, 7 NMs, 413 Nostos
idk guiz, I think that everything is just converted to points and strongboxes/NMs are worth a lot of points.
At most some people like you report to have not seen a specific level up, but if you have mastery 5 in B with those stats you got a mastery from an aurum already for sure, and either you were not soloing and someone else opened it so they were the only ones that saw the message but it increased if you checked the moogle later, or your game glitched and didn't show the mastery increase message, or if it's a multi-objective one somehow you met the other objective later and not on opening the first aurum in B like everyone else.
For example if the objective was 5th coffers -and- 1st aurum you could get the message on the 1st aurum -or- on the 5th coffer, whichever came second).
In Sheol A, I have:
2718 Nostos
41 NMs
77 chests
10 coffers
0 Aurum
for moogle mastery IX.
Reviewing my upgrades for Sheol B (in the logs):
1 - opened a chest (first chest)
2 - opened a coffer (first coffer)
3 - opened a chest (11th chest)
4 - killed a nostos (nosto #350, iirc)
5 - opened a coffer (16th coffer)
I keyed an Aurum Strongbox (between levels 4 and 5 and didn't get an upgrade. I did most of my NM killing in my early runs around level 1-2.
To do this, I searched for "Moogle Mastery" in my logs via Notepad++'s Find in Files. Then I opened the files up and used its normal Find to count "in the Chest" or "in the Coffer" within each file since Sheol B's release (July 8th, the queuing message changed.) There are 3 drops per chest/coffer/strongbox, so divide the count by 3 and you know how many chests you opened.
If a few other people do this, we can get most of the way there.
2718 Nostos
41 NMs
77 chests
10 coffers
0 Aurum
for moogle mastery IX.
Reviewing my upgrades for Sheol B (in the logs):
1 - opened a chest (first chest)
2 - opened a coffer (first coffer)
3 - opened a chest (11th chest)
4 - killed a nostos (nosto #350, iirc)
5 - opened a coffer (16th coffer)
I keyed an Aurum Strongbox (between levels 4 and 5 and didn't get an upgrade. I did most of my NM killing in my early runs around level 1-2.
To do this, I searched for "Moogle Mastery" in my logs via Notepad++'s Find in Files. Then I opened the files up and used its normal Find to count "in the Chest" or "in the Coffer" within each file since Sheol B's release (July 8th, the queuing message changed.) There are 3 drops per chest/coffer/strongbox, so divide the count by 3 and you know how many chests you opened.
If a few other people do this, we can get most of the way there.
A problem with your method above is that at east one or two of those are from NMs and not chests (one at 6 NMs exactly), plus depending on what exact string you searched for in your notepad++ then you could also get confused by drop counts from nostos and NMs.
What I've done is when i get a mastery level up message I just take a screenshot and then count the rest of the chests or NMs I kill in the rest of my solo run after that, then look at the difference from the report from the moogle at the end.
In Sheol A I have Moogle Mastery 14 and we already did a lot of work on that figuring out it's based specifically also on how many unique NMs you have killed exactly 6 times or more, not on your total NM count:
What I've done is when i get a mastery level up message I just take a screenshot and then count the rest of the chests or NMs I kill in the rest of my solo run after that, then look at the difference from the report from the moogle at the end.
In Sheol A I have Moogle Mastery 14 and we already did a lot of work on that figuring out it's based specifically also on how many unique NMs you have killed exactly 6 times or more, not on your total NM count:
Siren.Codegen said: »
got moogle mastery 14 at 15 NMs at 6+ kill, only have 1 NM at 5 kills and 2 at 7 kills and 1 at 10 kills. 33 coffers and 4 aurum.
Siren.Codegen said: »
I just got Moogle Mastery XIII exactly on the 12 NM at 6+
So it seems like an extra point there must be coming from chest/coffer/strongbox or possibly nostos kills.
Siren.Codegen said: »
still MM 12 with 11 NMs at 6+ kills,
NM kills are 9,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4,4,3,3,2
chests 240, coffers 26, aurum 4
NM kills are 9,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,4,4,3,3,2
chests 240, coffers 26, aurum 4
Sylph.Reain said: »
Got Moogle Mastery XIII.
Looks like it was 8 NMs 6 times.
Looks like it was 8 NMs 6 times.
Sylph.Reain said: »
Got Moogle Mastery XIV after 12 NM at x6 kills.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Agon monster kills count as Nostos. I don't know if Halos count, but now I assume they do.
Has anyone else gotten a level increase from killing a Halo?
Siren.Codegen said: »
A problem with your method above is that at east one or two of those are from NMs and not chests (one at 6 NMs exactly), plus depending on what exact string you searched for in your notepad++ then you could also get confused by drop counts from nostos and NMs.
What I've done is when i get a mastery level up message I just take a screenshot and then count the rest of the chests or NMs I kill in the rest of my solo run after that, then look at the difference from the report from the moogle at the end.
What I've done is when i get a mastery level up message I just take a screenshot and then count the rest of the chests or NMs I kill in the rest of my solo run after that, then look at the difference from the report from the moogle at the end.
idk man... this is the only one where I killed a NM (NM #2) on the same run that I got a moogle mastery upgrade and it's pretty clearly from the chest:
Code
Byrth uses Howling Fist.The Tripix takes 16368 points of damage.
Limit chain #2!Byrth gains 5250 limit points.
Capacity chain #14!Byrth gains 22942 capacity points.
Byrth earns a job point! (Total: 48)
You find a lustreless hide on the Tripix.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide.
You find a lustreless hide on the Tripix.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide.
You find a lustreless hide on the Tripix.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide.
You find a lustreless hide box on the Tripix.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide box.
Requesting Sjugy use Radial Arcana
333 MP → {2} Sjugy and Ygnas
146 MP → Byrth
0 MP → {2} Arciela and Qultada
Requesting Sjugy use Sneak
Sjugy recovers 333 MP.
Byrth recovers 146 MP.
Arciela recovers 0 MP.
Sjugy: Luopan dead!
[Sjugy] Sneak → Byrth
Sjugy Sneak → Byrth (Sneak)
Requesting Sjugy use Sneak
[Sjugy] Sneak → Sjugy
Byrth's Haste effect wears off.
Sjugy Sneak → Sjugy (Sneak)
Target out of range.
You might be able to open it with izzat or a special item.
You might be able to open it with izzat or a special item.
You might be able to open it with izzat or a special item.
Moogle Mastery is now level X.
{4} Byrth, Sjugy, Arciela, and Qultada's Max HP Boost effect wears off.
You find a lustreless hide box in the Chest.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide box.
You find a lustreless hide box in the Chest.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide box.
You find a lustreless hide box in the Chest.
Sjugy obtains a lustreless hide box.
It was my 3rd Sheol B run. I popped the NM with a Brambrox Shawl and the chest with izzat if it makes a difference. If you always do Izzat on NMs, for instance, perhaps spending Izzat is actually the thing being tracked?
yes I'd say that one is from a chest, but you list 2 levels from chests and 2 from coffers and none from NMs.
Right now my B stats are MM level 3:
-1 MM level on the 6th unique NM (I am at 15 unique ones killed)
-1 MM level from chests (I have 119 opened)
-1 MM level from an aurum strongbox (still just at 1)
I did not get any level from 134 nostos. I did not get any level from 10 coffers opened.
Right now my B stats are MM level 3:
-1 MM level on the 6th unique NM (I am at 15 unique ones killed)
-1 MM level from chests (I have 119 opened)
-1 MM level from an aurum strongbox (still just at 1)
I did not get any level from 134 nostos. I did not get any level from 10 coffers opened.
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