Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
So V0 kills count toward the overall reduction
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
I figured they counted, but since they cost as many segments to enter as V20, was curious if anyone had any inkling as to whether higher V could count *more*. But, given the nature of it being a server-wide thing, it makes sense there isn't really any information available.
To summarize, I got levels from:
* killing my 1400th Nostos
* killing my 6th NM 3 times
* killing my 10th NM 3 times (links for these)
* killing my 14th NM 3 times
* killing my 17th NM 3 times
* killing my 21st NM 3 times (? no message telling me when I ranked up)
* killing my 24th NM 3 times
* Opening my 16th Aurum Strongbox
I also reported (earlier for B):
* Opening my first Aurum strongbox did not give me a MM level
* Got a rank up for opening my 16th coffer
I wish that Odyssey didn't drop packets, which makes it difficult to believe I actually didn't get a rank up for opening an Aurum and makes it ambiguous whether I got 6 NM rank ups or only 5. If it was only 5 (as expected), then the counts of NMs that need to be killed is irregular and I ranked up from killing Nostos (~2700?).
It is also possible that there are more than 15 level up conditions and we're just capped at 15 levels.
* killing my 1400th Nostos
* killing my 6th NM 3 times
* killing my 10th NM 3 times (links for these)
* killing my 14th NM 3 times
* killing my 17th NM 3 times
* killing my 21st NM 3 times (? no message telling me when I ranked up)
* killing my 24th NM 3 times
* Opening my 16th Aurum Strongbox
I also reported (earlier for B):
* Opening my first Aurum strongbox did not give me a MM level
* Got a rank up for opening my 16th coffer
I wish that Odyssey didn't drop packets, which makes it difficult to believe I actually didn't get a rank up for opening an Aurum and makes it ambiguous whether I got 6 NM rank ups or only 5. If it was only 5 (as expected), then the counts of NMs that need to be killed is irregular and I ranked up from killing Nostos (~2700?).
It is also possible that there are more than 15 level up conditions and we're just capped at 15 levels.
[+]
Starting on A now with MM IX already in the zone and these stats:
* 2802 Nostos
* 4 Tipuli
* 3 Dione
* 1 Damysus
* 3 Aegypius
* 5 Salmandra
* 4 Ailuros
* 4 Megaera
* 3 Eurytus
* 1 Harpe
* 7 Kusarikku
* 5 Leucippe
* 1 Cynara
* 1 Ptelea
* 3 Physis
* 0 Gloios
* 0 Brachys
* 89 Chests
* 13 Coffers
* 0 Aurums
I am only missing 6 levels, but it feels like I have more rank-up thresholds than I have remaining levels.
*16 Coffers
* 1 Aurum
* 16 Aurums
* All NMs killed at least once
* All NMs to 6 kills
* Various other levels of killing 6 of a NM between those two points
Friend is coming along, so far:
* First NM kill - Leveled him up
* 10th Chest - Leveled him up (pretty sure it was 10)
* Fifth NM kill - Leveled him up (sixth overall, 5th novel)
* 2802 Nostos
* 4 Tipuli
* 3 Dione
* 1 Damysus
* 3 Aegypius
* 5 Salmandra
* 4 Ailuros
* 4 Megaera
* 3 Eurytus
* 1 Harpe
* 7 Kusarikku
* 5 Leucippe
* 1 Cynara
* 1 Ptelea
* 3 Physis
* 0 Gloios
* 0 Brachys
* 89 Chests
* 13 Coffers
* 0 Aurums
I am only missing 6 levels, but it feels like I have more rank-up thresholds than I have remaining levels.
*
* 1 Aurum
* 16 Aurums
* All NMs killed at least once
* All NMs to 6 kills
* Various other levels of killing 6 of a NM between those two points
Friend is coming along, so far:
* First NM kill - Leveled him up
* 10th Chest - Leveled him up (pretty sure it was 10)
* Fifth NM kill - Leveled him up (sixth overall, 5th novel)
I had been keeping track of what was causing my MM to increase, but ended up giving up for several reasons. On more than one occasion I've seen the status report display a difference between total MM and what I would get just adding each zone separately.
As an example:
Sheol A: III
Sheol B: III
Sheol c: III
Moogle Mastery: X
I've also noted that my MM for specific zones has completely skipped ranks (ie. XII to XIV). Initially I assumed it had something to do with calculation for the 'free' point, but seeing MM jump like that makes me think the zone specific MM isn't updating correctly.
As an example:
Sheol A: III
Sheol B: III
Sheol c: III
Moogle Mastery: X
I've also noted that my MM for specific zones has completely skipped ranks (ie. XII to XIV). Initially I assumed it had something to do with calculation for the 'free' point, but seeing MM jump like that makes me think the zone specific MM isn't updating correctly.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Starting on A now with MM IX already in the zone and these stats
I'm at VIII with 844 Nostos, 34 chests, 1 coffer, and 1x for each NM. Jumped from VII in the last day with just more Nostos, chests and the coffer being the difference. I swear all of these increases get dropped anymore and I never get them... So annoying.
[+]
I see a lot of people using Geo Malaise on V20 Ongo. I was under the impression GEO debuffs were nerfed into the ground on these bosses. Is a nerfed Malaise really better than say Indi-INT/Blaze of Glory Geo-Acumen?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
I see a lot of people using Geo Malaise on V20 Ongo. I was under the impression GEO debuffs were nerfed into the ground on these bosses. Is a nerfed Malaise really better than say Indi-INT/Blaze of Glory Geo-Acumen?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
Yeah they are. We didn't use malaise on any kills.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
I see a lot of people using Geo Malaise on V20 Ongo. I was under the impression GEO debuffs were nerfed into the ground on these bosses. Is a nerfed Malaise really better than say Indi-INT/Blaze of Glory Geo-Acumen?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
The answer is yes and no. Geo debuffs are nerfed 75%, meaning Idris Malaise goes from -45 Magic Defense to -11, which is not worth using over INT. During bolster this values is doubled, -22 Magic Defense is definitely worth using.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
I see a lot of people using Geo Malaise on V20 Ongo. I was under the impression GEO debuffs were nerfed into the ground on these bosses. Is a nerfed Malaise really better than say Indi-INT/Blaze of Glory Geo-Acumen?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
It's nerfed but still strong. It's -22.5MDB with Bolster, which will most likely result in like +25%~29% (not sure how much MDB Ongo has as base, but I think Geriond checked this once and the conclusion was around 112?) Bolster Acumen has +90 MAB, which for BLM will usually be less than +25% damage.
[+]
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
I see a lot of people using Geo Malaise on V20 Ongo. I was under the impression GEO debuffs were nerfed into the ground on these bosses. Is a nerfed Malaise really better than say Indi-INT/Blaze of Glory Geo-Acumen?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
We used BoG INT and Indi acumen. Kept entrust barrier and focus up with all the ja resets.
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
I see a lot of people using Geo Malaise on V20 Ongo. I was under the impression GEO debuffs were nerfed into the ground on these bosses. Is a nerfed Malaise really better than say Indi-INT/Blaze of Glory Geo-Acumen?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
What're you guys thinkin' on this one?
It's nerfed but still strong. It's -22.5MDB with Bolster, which will most likely result in like +25%~29% (not sure how much MDB Ongo has as base, but I think Geriond checked this once and the conclusion was around 112?) Bolster Acumen has +90 MAB, which for BLM will usually be less than +25% damage.
We use Malaise/Acumen, using entrust for INT. Yes, its nerfed, but as mentioned above, its benefits are still one of the best things we can do for nukes in this scenario.
Kinda reveals how much SE overpowered GEO on day one and has been struggling to balance them ever since.
if you think GEO is still overpowered then you must also believe BRD, COR and probably RDM, too, are in dire need of a nerf since in a lot of situations they'll get picked over GEO.
Ended up winning with Indi INT, Geo Acumen, Entrust Focus for the first 25% and then switching to Bolster Indi Acumen, Geo Malaise, Entrust INT after Sforzo ended. After Bolster's ran dry, I switched back to Indi INT and Geo Acumen.
Shichishito said: »
since in a lot of situations they'll get picked over GEO.
He never said GEO was "still overpowered", only that it was overpowered since release and SE had no method besides adding geomancy resistance to deal with it.
BRD and COR get picked over GEO primarily because nothing nerfs songs or rolls and because Geomancy IS nerfed on most relevant content. Being able to cap attack with just SP+Frailty+Dia is kind of a huge thing. The secondary reason BRD and COR get picked over GEO is because of Savage Blade/DD options. The Luopan being immobile also makes them less effective for things like Dynamis and Odyssey ABC. If they stop making Ambuscades or modern content immune to Geomancy, watch how quickly people start adding them to every strategy.
Over the years, SE has boosted Songs (and Rolls to a lesser extent), and they've cut geomancy effectiveness by a lot. Because of how busted it is. They went the whole "undispellable/unresistable" buffs/debuffs thing and never considered how reducing a monster's defense or magic attack to nothing would trivialize everything.
[+]
he also said
which can be understood as GEO is still unbalanced.
that's a rather large if considering the nerf affected every content after/including dynamis-D which got introduced in November 10th 2017.
that's around 3 1/2 years, almost half as long as GEO exists as a job.
GEO also has other problems besides the overkill potency nerf that need to be adressed, like the inability to properly DD without getting hurt in their buff capabilties that the other buffers/debuffers don't have to deal with or the misplaced elemental spells.
only few enemies have full dispels/erases, probably so few that just as many have some sort of allergic reaction to geomancy so the unresistable/undispelable argument kinda lost it's edge, especially after the RDM buff.
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
and has been struggling to balance them ever since.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If they stop making Ambuscades or modern content immune to Geomancy, watch how quickly people start adding them to every strategy.
that's around 3 1/2 years, almost half as long as GEO exists as a job.
GEO also has other problems besides the overkill potency nerf that need to be adressed, like the inability to properly DD without getting hurt in their buff capabilties that the other buffers/debuffers don't have to deal with or the misplaced elemental spells.
only few enemies have full dispels/erases, probably so few that just as many have some sort of allergic reaction to geomancy so the unresistable/undispelable argument kinda lost it's edge, especially after the RDM buff.
Shichishito said: »
like the inability to properly DD without getting hurt
GEO is so busted when it isn't nerfed, it doesn't even need to DD at all. It can cap attack all on its own. Also, this isn't necessarily true anymore, since GEO would 5/5 Nyame and that's probably enough defense for themselves. BRD and COR are not any more tanky than GEO particularly. The only argument is your Luopan dying to AOEs, so you have to then use other slots to compensate for bubble survival, which is a further dps loss.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Shichishito said: »
like the inability to properly DD without getting hurt
GEO is so busted when it isn't nerfed, it doesn't even need to DD at all. It can cap attack all on its own. Also, this isn't necessarily true anymore, since GEO would 5/5 Nyame and that's probably enough defense for themselves. BRD and COR are not any more tanky than GEO particularly. The only argument is your Luopan dying to AOEs, so you have to then use other slots to compensate for bubble survival, which is a further dps loss.
its not hard to be a supplementary DD in large scale events while preserving the power/potency of your bubble, it just takes understanding that you're never going to DPS at the level you'd like, but you can be effective.
We have better damage clubs, but Idris means you're 2/3rds done with your PetDT needs and can use AM3 to "fake" multiattack gear that GEO severely lacks. I also changed the "PDT-10%" augment on my TP'ing cape to "Pet Regen", and lock the JSE+2 neck over something like Combatant's Torque. Hey, if you're gonna be in range, might as well make sure you're benefiting from it! So yeah, my PetDT isn't capped, but between idris/dunna and the healing properties of the neck, they handle ***.
I typically parse around 92% accuracy on GEO/DNC for wave3 Dyna-D as an example. Its not great damage, but the variation in WS usage to break up the more common ones does help a great deal for the rest of the ally on the W3 boss. In addition, I bring Haste Samba for my party and steps land, even on W3 NMs. It all adds up.
[+]
arguments get weird when ppl first oppose you and then proceed to back up your points.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Starting on A now with MM IX already in the zone and these stats:
* 2802 Nostos
* 4 Tipuli
* 3 Dione
* 1 Damysus
* 3 Aegypius
* 5 Salmandra
* 4 Ailuros
* 4 Megaera
* 5 Eurytus
* 1 Harpe
* 7 Kusarikku
* 6 Leucippe * Leveled me up to X
* 1 Cynara
* 1 Ptelea
* 4 Physis
* 0 Gloios
* 0 Brachys
* 108 Chests
* 20 Coffers
* 0 Aurums
* 2802 Nostos
* 4 Tipuli
* 3 Dione
* 1 Damysus
* 3 Aegypius
* 5 Salmandra
* 4 Ailuros
* 4 Megaera
* 5 Eurytus
* 1 Harpe
* 7 Kusarikku
* 6 Leucippe * Leveled me up to X
* 1 Cynara
* 1 Ptelea
* 4 Physis
* 0 Gloios
* 0 Brachys
* 108 Chests
* 20 Coffers
* 0 Aurums
Ranked up to X in A when I killed Leucippe the 6th time. He was my 2nd NM to 6 kills, but overall I am about 50% done with getting them all to 6 kills.
Friend came along and got 1 level from opening his 10th chest and killing his first NM, so there's two more data points.
Edit: Friend also got one level from killing his 70th Nostos
Asura.Topace said: »
Boost smn buffs.
Crystal Blessing should scale with Summoning magic. 1TP bonus per 1summoning magic (currently highest would be around 710? EDIT: when switching weapon/grip it would be slightly more)
Off topic, but SMN has a ton of interesting buffs right now on paper. You could imagine a situation where the summoner is giving Haste 2, +10% attack from Crimson Howl, 60 damage/hit enfire, 200 TP bonus, and 25% Double Attack.
However, there are two things a party needs to do to maximize melee damage:
1. Cap Haste
2. Move as close to the attack cap as possible
Towards objective #1, SMN still needs a second buffer main (BRD or GEO) or a very specific situation where it is sufficient to diffusion Mighty Guard.
Towards objective #2, it contributes almost nothing. Crimson Howl is a paltry 10% attack and can be overwritten by any derp using Warcry.
Corsair is the best comparison for current-state SMN, and they give a unique ~50% attack with Chaos Roll +8 and come with Light Shot and either Savage Blade or Leaden Salute depending on the target.
I would say the way to fix SMN's issues is to hit it with the buff bat and give Ifrit an Invigorating Howl BP Ward that gives a unique 20% Magic Haste, 30 STP, and 30% Attack. Now having SMN along gives you capped magic haste, 30 STP, 40% attack, 25% DA, 60 damage/hit Enfire, and 200 TP Bonus if you bother swapping to Shiva.
However, there are two things a party needs to do to maximize melee damage:
1. Cap Haste
2. Move as close to the attack cap as possible
Towards objective #1, SMN still needs a second buffer main (BRD or GEO) or a very specific situation where it is sufficient to diffusion Mighty Guard.
Towards objective #2, it contributes almost nothing. Crimson Howl is a paltry 10% attack and can be overwritten by any derp using Warcry.
Corsair is the best comparison for current-state SMN, and they give a unique ~50% attack with Chaos Roll +8 and come with Light Shot and either Savage Blade or Leaden Salute depending on the target.
I would say the way to fix SMN's issues is to hit it with the buff bat and give Ifrit an Invigorating Howl BP Ward that gives a unique 20% Magic Haste, 30 STP, and 30% Attack. Now having SMN along gives you capped magic haste, 30 STP, 40% attack, 25% DA, 60 damage/hit Enfire, and 200 TP Bonus if you bother swapping to Shiva.
[+]
250TP bonus, not 200, but that's still not enough. It would be more significant if other TP bonus like TP bonus offhands/ranged, Moonshade and Warcry don't exist (mainly the first one). It can still be quite powerful if you only have access to limited TP bonus (like for example DRK with Calad without WAR in pt, or RNG/COR using Leaden/Trueflight etc.), but it's not strong enough.
With 700+ TP bonus SMN could kinda rival with Chaos roll and Hastega 2 would mix well with Honormarch. Lack of Samurai roll could still be too much since 25% DA doesn't support every build like Samurai roll does (mythics with AM3, Kraken club offhand, THF etc. don't get much from DA% and Kraken even suffers from it). Right now 250TP bonus is not enough.
With 700+ TP bonus SMN could kinda rival with Chaos roll and Hastega 2 would mix well with Honormarch. Lack of Samurai roll could still be too much since 25% DA doesn't support every build like Samurai roll does (mythics with AM3, Kraken club offhand, THF etc. don't get much from DA% and Kraken even suffers from it). Right now 250TP bonus is not enough.
[+]
Asura.Topace said: »
Boost smn buffs.
They could do this my making Avatars favor strong and more relevant to for parties. Change Garuda's to +Magic Haste, Ifrits to +Attack and Carbuncles to anything else. They end up as ghetto GEO's that can provide secondary functions.
as a non-SMN, the only thing that I dislike about a SMN buffer in a party setup is how several of their buffs overwrite stronger/better versions from other party members, depending on setup. I also believe there's a few weirdo ones that occupy the same slot as better options from different jobs, and its not always apparent.
Several of their buffs?
Which?
Haste2 is the same and is the only AoE Haste2
Shiva's Crystal Blessing is unique
Fenrir's buffs are... mostly unique, and not very strong, but they're not very relevant either.
Leviathan's cure pot buff is mostly unique and anyway I wouldn't say it's (directly) very relevant for DPS.
Could discuss the weak Diabolos Phalanxga, Garuda's Blinkga and Titan Stoneskinga but, again, do we really want to claim they're relevant?
The only one that comes to mind is Ifrit's Warcry.
As far as Attack goes it gives the same amount as a WAR's Warcry, but it lasts ~8 mins instead of 30 seconds.
Altough, of course, it loses what we could say is the really important part, that is the TP bonus.
Pros and Cons but I can see this being considered a potential issue in a party with a WAR main.
Which other relevant SMN buff is noticeably inferior to other buffs that share the same buff slot?
Can't think of any atm.
Which?
Haste2 is the same and is the only AoE Haste2
Shiva's Crystal Blessing is unique
Fenrir's buffs are... mostly unique, and not very strong, but they're not very relevant either.
Leviathan's cure pot buff is mostly unique and anyway I wouldn't say it's (directly) very relevant for DPS.
Could discuss the weak Diabolos Phalanxga, Garuda's Blinkga and Titan Stoneskinga but, again, do we really want to claim they're relevant?
The only one that comes to mind is Ifrit's Warcry.
As far as Attack goes it gives the same amount as a WAR's Warcry, but it lasts ~8 mins instead of 30 seconds.
Altough, of course, it loses what we could say is the really important part, that is the TP bonus.
Pros and Cons but I can see this being considered a potential issue in a party with a WAR main.
Which other relevant SMN buff is noticeably inferior to other buffs that share the same buff slot?
Can't think of any atm.
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
Several of their buffs?
Which?
Haste2 is the same and is the only AoE Haste2
Shiva's Crystal Blessing is unique
Fenrir's buffs are... mostly unique, and not very strong, but they're not very relevant either.
Leviathan's cure pot buff is mostly unique and anyway I wouldn't say it's (directly) very relevant for DPS.
Could discuss the weak Diabolos Phalanxga, Garuda's Blinkga and Titan Stoneskinga but, again, do we really want to claim they're relevant?
The only one that comes to mind is Ifrit's Warcry.
As far as Attack goes it gives the same amount as a WAR's Warcry, but it lasts ~8 mins instead of 30 seconds.
Altough, of course, it loses what we could say is the really important part, that is the TP bonus.
Pros and Cons but I can see this being considered a potential issue in a party with a WAR main.
Which other relevant SMN buff is noticeably inferior to other buffs that share the same buff slot?
Can't think of any atm.
Which?
Haste2 is the same and is the only AoE Haste2
Shiva's Crystal Blessing is unique
Fenrir's buffs are... mostly unique, and not very strong, but they're not very relevant either.
Leviathan's cure pot buff is mostly unique and anyway I wouldn't say it's (directly) very relevant for DPS.
Could discuss the weak Diabolos Phalanxga, Garuda's Blinkga and Titan Stoneskinga but, again, do we really want to claim they're relevant?
The only one that comes to mind is Ifrit's Warcry.
As far as Attack goes it gives the same amount as a WAR's Warcry, but it lasts ~8 mins instead of 30 seconds.
Altough, of course, it loses what we could say is the really important part, that is the TP bonus.
Pros and Cons but I can see this being considered a potential issue in a party with a WAR main.
Which other relevant SMN buff is noticeably inferior to other buffs that share the same buff slot?
Can't think of any atm.
Wind's Blessing overwrites Rampart and is Overwritten by One for All, same thing with Shining Ruby.
What moron though it'd be a good idea for that all to overwrite Rampart is beyond me.
Noctoshield from Diabolos is overwritten by Phalanx as well.
[+]
Leviathan.Boposhopo said: »
What moron though it'd be a good idea for that all to overwrite Rampart is beyond me.
Probably the same moron who thought Tenuto overwriting Pianissimo made sense.
[+]
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