The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-03-30 12:51:40
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Unless things have changed after SE patched it, Tiiimbeeer seemed to ignore Scherzo, Earthern Armor, Migawari, Defense, MDB, Mdef, Vallation, Liement, PDT, DT and MDT.

I don't remember BDT being specifically tested but it should be included in DT I think?

Elemental Sforzo works. (wonder if, in that case, the person hit for zero with Elemental Sforzo still counts as one of the targets hit by Tiiimbeeer or not? It should...)


Of course all these things were tested before SE patched it so who knows, things might have changed. But if Geriont's theory is correct then they just fixed that "x" outside of the brackets and nothing else.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2021-03-30 13:04:32
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Unless things have changed after SE patched it, Tiiimbeeer seemed to ignore Scherzo, Earthern Armor, Migawari, Defense, MDB, Mdef, Vallation, Liement, PDT, DT and MDT.
I am inclined to believe Vallation/Valiance would work.

Vallation is an SDT effect similar to Rampart, I'd find it hard to believe Rampart would work, but Vallation wouldn't.
I don't believe anyone has used RUN post Mboze video since people are using "safe" Rampart resets, but yeah I'd believe Vallation works. The only reason I can see why people thought it never worked beforehand was because no one was stacking 7 targets in range. If Vallation did work, it'd provide more safety than Rampart would, no? Rampart being 25% SDT max, Vallation being 45% max. Ofc the multiplicative properties applying.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2021-03-30 13:11:55
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Apologize if this has been covered. Im looking for a basic strategy of how people are farming shoal c with melee.

Are you just massing pulling with a tank and melee burning it all down? Are there NMs involved?

Thanks in advance!

Is this still the meta?

Bahamut.Belkin said: »
RUN/SAM/SAM/COR/BRD/WHM in Sheol C is a very effective setup. Bring a few UNM materials to pop Behemoth & Cerberus NMs. Use the izzat to open chests. SV songs at the start of the first pack, head hunt the halos, and use some tact to skip things like slimes and skeletons. We have our BRD DD as well. SAM's with Masamune & Shining One at the ready for mobs that are weak to piercing or resist slashing.

If you get a favorable layout and nobody dies to random BS, you should net in the neighborhood of 4500-5000 segments per run.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2021-03-30 13:18:03
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Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Apologize if this has been covered. Im looking for a basic strategy of how people are farming shoal c with melee.

Are you just massing pulling with a tank and melee burning it all down? Are there NMs involved?

Thanks in advance!

Is this still the meta?

My group uses tank,drk,sam,cor,brd,whm

We full clear floor 1 and 2, depending if mobs aren't ***. skip clots, malboros indefinitely.
If we run across UNM pops we do any except Tolba, Hydra or Shedu.

We full clear Halo on all floors, kill as much trash as possible.
I like to try get our group to split each floor in sections.
Full clear floor 1 with 20 minutes remaining, Floor 2 with 15 minutes remaining. Kill as much trash + halo on Floor 3 till we have 9 minutes left, then go full clear floor 4. Pop any UNMs we see.
Usually kill Hundred Fists NMs first though, they suck on Floor 3/4.
Usually nets us 8-9k segments. Biggest improvement for segments are quick decision making on what mobs to skip and good DDs

Hope this helps.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 13:21:45
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Asura.Shiraj said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Unless things have changed after SE patched it, Tiiimbeeer seemed to ignore Scherzo, Earthern Armor, Migawari, Defense, MDB, Mdef, Vallation, Liement, PDT, DT and MDT.
I am inclined to believe Vallation/Valiance would work.

Vallation is an SDT effect similar to Rampart, I'd find it hard to believe Rampart would work, but Vallation wouldn't.
I don't believe anyone has used RUN post Mboze video since people are using "safe" Rampart resets, but yeah I'd believe Vallation works. The only reason I can see why people thought it never worked beforehand was because no one was stacking 7 targets in range. If Vallation did work, it'd provide more safety than Rampart would, no? Rampart being 25% SDT max, Vallation being 45% max. Ofc the multiplicative properties applying.
The Liement test implies that Mboze's version of Timbeeer is non-elemental, which would make Rampart work but not Vallation.
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2021-03-30 13:24:08
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Asura.Shiraj said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Apologize if this has been covered. Im looking for a basic strategy of how people are farming shoal c with melee.

Are you just massing pulling with a tank and melee burning it all down? Are there NMs involved?

Thanks in advance!

Is this still the meta?

My group uses tank,drk,sam,cor,brd,whm

We full clear floor 1 and 2, depending if mobs aren't ***. skip clots, malboros indefinitely.
If we run across UNM pops we do any except Tolba, Hydra or Shedu.

We full clear Halo on all floors, kill as much trash as possible.
I like to try get our group to split each floor in sections.
Full clear floor 1 with 20 minutes remaining, Floor 2 with 15 minutes remaining. Kill as much trash + halo on Floor 3 till we have 9 minutes left, then go full clear floor 4. Pop any UNMs we see.
Usually kill Hundred Fists NMs first though, they suck on Floor 3/4.
Usually nets us 8-9k segments. Biggest improvement for segments are quick decision making on what mobs to skip and good DDs

Hope this helps.

Thank you! I think my group is going to transition from shoalB to shoalC.

What's your average gil payout on C with this setup?
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2021-03-30 13:24:22
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Asura.Geriond said: »
The Liement test implies that Mboze's version of Timbeeer is non-elemental, which would make Rampart work but not Vallation.

Has there been any evidence shown that Liement doesn't work for Timber in Gaol? I find it impossible to time a Liement against Mboze, it's literally instant. If you pre-use Liement, you probably risk absorbing Canopierce or anything else.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2021-03-30 13:24:46
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Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Thank you! I think my group is going to transition from shoalB to shoalC.

What's your average gil payout on C with this setup?

1m~ sometimes 950k, sometimes 1.1m.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 13:33:03
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Asura.Shiraj said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
The Liement test implies that Mboze's version of Timbeeer is non-elemental, which would make Rampart work but not Vallation.

Has there been any evidence shown that Liement doesn't work for Timber in Gaol? I find it impossible to time a Liement against Mboze, it's literally instant. If you pre-use Liement, you probably risk absorbing Canopierce or anything else.
Brahmz said he got lucky enough to pull it off, but it didn't do anything.
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By Sylph.Ticktick 2021-03-30 13:41:17
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Timbeeer's formula is given as Max HP*(0.8+(8-n))*(0.1+0.05x), where n = number of people hit, and x = enmity. Enmity seems to refer to actual VE/CE in some way (as it notes damage is lower if Timbeeer is used right after Uproot), but it doesn't go into specific detail.

From what I can tell, this is transcribed wrong.

https://youtu.be/AEwJbZrtiew?t=298

the formula provided is
Max HP * (0.8 + (8-n)*(0.1+0.05x)) * n
but I think the * n is incorrect unless they're talking about total damage

first column is x, first row is n
Code
	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
0	1.5	1.4	1.3	1.2	1.1	1	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.6
2	2.2	2	1.8	1.6	1.4	1.2	1	0.8	0.6	0.4

 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 13:43:16
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Yes, the *n is wrong (as shown by the comparison with the old equation listed later in the video), which is why I left it out.

I did typo that parenthesis, though
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 14:04:34
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Elemental Sforzo does not work on Denounce (not particularly surprising) or on Zisurru (more surprising).
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-01 22:09:57
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It takes me exactly 3 Hidhaegg's scales to pop on C4
Guyford said: »
You're probably right on 3 on C4, I just saw 1 wasn't enough so traded a bunch and assumed it was 2 but could have miscounted.

I could be wrong with this comment. I thought I had 3 scales in my inventory before tonight's runs, popped a C4 Wyrm, and I have 1 left. I could have miscounted, or maybe I didnt have the full discount.

Now, I have killed a bunch of NMs in Sheol C, so I am wondering how I didn't have the max discount on C4. It has always taken 3 mats for me, but today it was 2 (so I must have gotten a discount recently). So I believe the discount is based on how many total NMs you have killed per floor, not just in the zone itself. As I solo'd most of C1-3 for MM and popped NMs across those floors, I never popped any NMs on C4 until recently during Segment Farms. So my discount would have only appeared recently if it was earned per floor. If it was total per zone, I would have hit the cap by now, as I have 240 NM kills in Sheol C.

Have the max discount on C1-C3, but I think that's how the discount may possibly be applied. Anybody else can share their mat pop items needed/floor to confirm?
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By Guyford 2021-04-01 22:38:30
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It's not NM kills per floor. I never popped any NMs in A on 4 until it only cost 2 pop items.
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-04-02 01:53:47
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I guess they fixed the problem with the aura colour of one type of magic absorbing on Bumba?
Maybe?

Judging from the patch notes it seems to be hinting at that, unless I missed something.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2021-04-02 02:12:34
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I guess they fixed the problem with the aura colour of one type of magic absorbing on Bumba?
Maybe?

Judging from the patch notes it seems to be hinting at that, unless I missed something.

Maybe the fire or earth absorb. Every other colour is easily noticable except fire and earth, they looked the same.

Edit: This is what I mean:

Fire absorb:



Stone Absorb:

 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-04-02 02:33:36
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Yeah I remember reading that one colour was hard to tell from the animation, which is what I thought about when I read the patch notes.

Not sure if it's what they meant though.
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By Nyaanu 2021-04-03 01:35:57
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I may have missed this through 111 pages, but search didn't pull anything up. Took a party through Raskovniche V15 today--first time clear for 4/6 people in the group.

Killing it provided 401 RP across the board. Clearing V15 Mboze, Marmorkrebs, U Bnai, and Gogmagog yielded the expected 392.

Any idea why it was increased? I was under the impression that 392 was the cap.

Edit: Have also talked to people that report multiple instances of obtaining 401 on V15 Bumba.
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-04-06 10:43:19
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I want to make sure I understand something correctly before putting it in my video so someone who is certain on this please confirm.

From what I can see it seems the higher R level your gear is the more you will get form Partial kills. So for example

A3 NM: Item Level is R5, We take boss to 50% HP.
Formula would be .4*170*.5/2 or 17 RP

A3 NM: Item Level is R19, We take boss to 50% HP.
Formula would be .4*1760*.5/2 or 176 RP... over 10 times the amount

In that example, person on R5 may want to enter again to get the full 396 from a win but person on R15 would potentially only get a little over double what they already received by using another moglophone II. Just trying to think through some RP farming strategies as this gets higher.

Am I understanding those formula's correctly? Actually, now that I'm thinking this through how can this be the case? RP is earned when you win... RP is then later put onto an item of your choosing. So how would the two be related? Confused with what the wiki means then by this formula, can anyone explain? It's that "Total RP Needed for previous Rank" that is throwing me.

RP is earned with the following formula: 40% * Total RP needed for previous rank (See RP Allocation table below) = RP Earned for successful kill

Thanks!
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By SimonSes 2021-04-06 11:01:59
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Not really. There is no 170 or 1760 there. Its static 980 for V15.
That number (and whole first part of formula) is taken from formula for RP for killing the NM
Code
RP is earned with the following formula: 40% * Total RP needed for previous rank (See RP Allocation table below) = RP Earned for successful kill 


Total RP needed for previous rank (See RP Allocation table below) - is not based on previous rank of the item you have, but previous rank of current V. So for V15, previous RP needed for Rank 14, which is 980 RP.

So for V15 its:
kill = 0.4 * 980 = 392
damaged = 0.4 * 980 * %HP you taken * 0.5
for 50%HP its 392 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 98
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 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-04-06 11:13:14
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SimonSes said: »
Not really. There is no 170 or 1760 there. Its static 980 for V15.
That number (and whole first part of formula) is taken from formula for RP for killing the NM
Code
RP is earned with the following formula: 40% * Total RP needed for previous rank (See RP Allocation table below) = RP Earned for successful kill 

Ahh ok, so it just uses that number in the calculation but the R level of your gear is irrelevant. So a NM in V5 we would use 170 and V10 we will use 480 for the formula in place of 980. Making it so that you always get 98RP for a R15 at 50%. That right?

Edit: haha looks like you were confirming it at same time I was asking it. OK thanks! Glad I have that straight now.
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By Nyaanu 2021-04-06 11:22:08
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Any idea what has caused people to receive more than the 392? I believe that everything I have had it happen and have heard from others about it happening, it has specifically been 401.

Maybe a rounding error or calculation tomfoolery in their system? Or perhaps some unknown augmenting condition in the equation that increases the cap RP?
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By SimonSes 2021-04-06 11:28:24
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YouTube Video Placeholder


2min6sec (since engage). Using DNC WAR COR BRD WHM GEO.

Fighter/Samurai
Dont know songs :/
I think Geo fury, but not sure what indi.

Classic interaction of DNC using Haste Samba to almost cap haste for 1hand weapons (WAR and COR). Haste Samba, Warcry, Naegling Fancer build is easily the strongest raw damage build on WAR. Both DNC and WAR SP after Bumba SP ends (as far as I understood translated JP). Use Shark Bite instead of Rudra to avoid Distortion if Bumba absorb Ice or Water.
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By Foxfire 2021-04-06 16:32:47
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based on the buffs up top i'm guessing either haste + entrust precision? or something along those lines.

edit: to clarify, i don't remember how dnc works so i'm unsure if that haste symbol is from samba or not lol. dunno what else the other accuracy symbol could be. macc? idk
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-06 17:22:11
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SimonSes said: »
I think Geo fury, but not sure what indi.

Foxfire said: »
dunno what else the other accuracy symbol could be. macc? idk

They are abusing Entrust from the lobby. Geomancy effects do not get wiped like other buffs (test it if you like, my Geomancer keeps refresh up even after warp). Looks like they are using every possible entrust buff they can fit across their characters (besides the GEO). You can tell this because they have 6 bubbles with no timers (Geomancy has no timers in icons). Also, the buffs grow when bodies come near the person recording the video. GEO in lobby uses entrust > spell > change sub > repeat 4 tImes. That trick only works if your group is quick with buffing.

5 Entrusts + Geomancer main for Indi. Probably acc/macc/def/mdef/haste, main Fury.

Pretty ingenius...
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-04-06 17:41:43
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If you have a Geomancer put up 6 Entrust bubbles via job changing, do they all get effected by Bolster?

Also, since Entrust buffs get enhanced if the target has Geomancy+, can you cast on a player with Dunna or Idris on, then have them swap jobs and keep the enhanced bubble?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-06 17:45:25
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It would be 5 entrust bubbles since the Geo will use his own Indi

Entrust indicolure is not enhanced by bolster or geomancy+equipment at all. Only combined geomancy and handbell skill of the caster. The potency is halved so it's only a minor effect (good for things like haste and accuracy etc)

The bubble is lost the moment you change jobs.
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-04-06 17:46:47
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Entrust Indi spells are affected by geomancy+, but only geomancy+ on the target, not the caster. This is of course normally useless since a GEO isn't going to Entrust another GEO, but in this case I thought there might be a loophole if job changing didn't erase the entrusted bubble. Too bad.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-04-06 17:49:04
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I've never heard of that before. But I guess the recipient part makes sense. Except that there's no geomancy+equipment any other job can use so the only way to test that is with two Geo mains bouncing entrust off each other and checking the values
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