The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

Language: JP EN DE FR
2010-09-08
New Items
users online
Forum » FFXI » Odyssey » The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
First Page 2 3 ... 109 110 111 ... 143 144 145
Offline
Posts: 5175
By SimonSes 2021-03-25 20:35:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Geriond said: »
Do people keep buffs limited on the tank for Mboze? We've been finding that if he absorbs the tank's marches he starts TPing too fast to deal with even with subtle blow sets on the melees.

You could stop melee and dispel it? Tho Im not sure why would PLD need marches anyway unless for Flash recast. Also maybe you just have too many people engaged? Should probably only be main DD with and COR (assuming you keep Rampart up).
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1910
By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-25 21:11:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yes, March is for PLD flash recast.

We only had 2 people engaged, both using subtle blow sets, and this was all before 50% so it still had normal TP usage.

Have you been able to dispel it? Our BRD has mentioned that he gets resisted every time.
 Asura.Shiraj
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Shiraj
Posts: 979
By Asura.Shiraj 2021-03-25 21:18:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Geriond said: »
Yes, March is for PLD flash recast.

We only had 2 people engaged, both using subtle blow sets, and this was all before 50% so it still had normal TP usage.

Have you been able to dispel it? Our BRD has mentioned that he gets resisted every time.

Our Bard could not land a single Finale on Mboze. And Marches + Ballads are good for PLD for flash + cures. Relying solely on WHM's cures is dumb for this fight and with how limited PLD is without a sub job, maintaining hate is very hard even if DDs have a dirge if they are ripping off 40-50k Torcleavers, hate will get wonky towards end if PLD is not curing for hate as well as party survival.
Offline
Posts: 134
By Guyford 2021-03-25 23:04:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
Yes, March is for PLD flash recast.

We only had 2 people engaged, both using subtle blow sets, and this was all before 50% so it still had normal TP usage.

Have you been able to dispel it? Our BRD has mentioned that he gets resisted every time.

Our Bard could not land a single Finale on Mboze. And Marches + Ballads are good for PLD for flash + cures. Relying solely on WHM's cures is dumb for this fight and with how limited PLD is without a sub job, maintaining hate is very hard even if DDs have a dirge if they are ripping off 40-50k Torcleavers, hate will get wonky towards end if PLD is not curing for hate as well as party survival.

Sonic Buffet dispel from Siren lands. So does Droning Whirlwind from unbridled blu (full dispel). I'm not sure you can justify using blu but it is a slashing DD that also has tp reset spells. Smn adds a body for timber and gives you mew amoung other good buffs, so probably the better choice.
 Asura.Nuance
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Crion
Posts: 351
By Asura.Nuance 2021-03-25 23:53:45
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Finale basically requires nitro on him from our experience
[+]
Offline
Posts: 5175
By SimonSes 2021-03-26 03:21:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Shiraj said: »
maintaining hate is very hard even if DDs have a dirge if they are ripping off 40-50k Torcleavers, hate will get wonky towards end if PLD is not curing for hate as well as party survival.

You can use Neagling DRG. Hate wont be a problem and wyvern adds 1 target for Tiiimbeeer :)

Also Shield Bash is a dispel, isnt it? Anyone tried?
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2579
By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-26 11:30:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Shiraj said: »
maintaining hate is very hard even if DDs have a dirge if they are ripping off 40-50k Torcleavers, hate will get wonky towards end if PLD is not curing for hate as well as party survival.

You can use Neagling DRG. Hate wont be a problem and wyvern adds 1 target for Tiiimbeeer :)

Also Shield Bash is a dispel, isnt it? Anyone tried?
Shield bash dispel is effective. Although we only know that cause when the BRD went to nitro finale, there was nothing on the mob to dispel. Presumably because I was spamming shield bash and didn't have many buffs that run to start with.

The dispel effect really needs a log messsage.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 23
By Seraphpdh 2021-03-26 12:33:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
The dispel effect really needs a log messsage.
Yes it does. Seriously.
Offline
Posts: 351
By Kasaioni 2021-03-26 12:49:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
My group just beat Mboze yesterday. Didn't even realize it absorbed buffs, lol dang.
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1910
By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-26 19:14:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Timbeeer is 15 yalms, not 20; with our backline people at 16 from the mob, it completely missed them.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 134
By Guyford 2021-03-26 20:44:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Geriond said: »
Timbeeer is 15 yalms, not 20; with our backline people at 16 from the mob, it completely missed them.
I believe it changed when they updated it. Noticed range seems shorter but wasn't sure.
Offline
Posts: 88
By drakefs 2021-03-28 21:57:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Question about Sheol B NM popping. I ran it tonight, popped Akidu on floor 1. Jumped to floor 6 and could not pop another NM, kept telling me I didn't have enough pops (was trying to pop Gandji, had 10 Arke's Feathers). Pretty sure the first pop only took 3, am I missing something on how subsequent NM pops work?
Offline
Posts: 856
By Foxfire 2021-03-28 22:02:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
fairly certain pop item amnt is based on current floor; so floor 6 would be 20 items on sheol B.
Offline
Posts: 134
By Guyford 2021-03-28 23:31:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Its also based on your MM level for that sheol. At MM15 in C you can pop stuff on floor 1-3 with 1 item and floor 4 with 2 items.
Offline
Posts: 5175
By SimonSes 2021-03-29 02:28:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Guyford said: »
Its also based on your MM level for that sheol. At MM15 in C you can pop stuff on floor 1-3 with 1 item and floor 4 with 2 items.

I have no idea why this keeps being repeated. It's not based on MM lvl, it's based on amount of NMs you killed. Same as discount for chests is based on amount of chests opened (for each tier of chest separately).
[+]
Offline
Posts: 256
By eeternal 2021-03-29 14:40:57
Link | Quote | Reply
 
YouTube Video Placeholder

~5 mins clear. Anyone able to interpret their strategy? I see ws spam that doesn't sc
 Hades.Dade
Offline
Server: Hades
Game: FFXI
user: Dade
Posts: 216
By Hades.Dade 2021-03-29 15:25:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
eeternal said: »
~5 mins clear. Anyone able to interpret their strategy? I see ws spam that doesn't sc

last stand>stardiver>rudra>stardiver
[+]
Offline
Posts: 88
By drakefs 2021-03-29 16:14:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Foxfire said: »
fairly certain pop item amnt is based on current floor; so floor 6 would be 20 items on sheol B.

Guyford said: »
Its also based on your MM level for that sheol. At MM15 in C you can pop stuff on floor 1-3 with 1 item and floor 4 with 2 items.

I see, thanks for the info. Is a there a resource states how many pops required per floor and how MM reduces to amount required?
Offline
Posts: 134
By Guyford 2021-03-29 18:02:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
SimonSes said: »
Guyford said: »
Its also based on your MM level for that sheol. At MM15 in C you can pop stuff on floor 1-3 with 1 item and floor 4 with 2 items.

I have no idea why this keeps being repeated. It's not based on MM lvl, it's based on amount of NMs you killed. Same as discount for chests is based on amount of chests opened (for each tier of chest separately).

If you have some kind of data to support this please share it. Number of pop items required decrease by 1 every time my MM went up in a given sheol. Its possible this is a coincidence, but highly unlikely given that when I started killing NMs in B with MM6 there already and no NM kills I was able to pop NMs on floor 2 with only 1 item.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-29 18:44:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
He's correct. His example and proof is the one he provided with chests. If you pop chests all day, you might increase Moogle Mastery, but it's all coincidence, because the chest cost decrease is applied based on how many chests you have opened, not Moogle Mastery.

As an example, fight the exact same NM 10 times across various runs. You might never increase MM, but you'll always receive the discount to materials used. Or enter a new zone on a character and do nothing but open chests. You'll always get the discount to chests/coffers/aurum regardless of your Moogle Mastery level. The two are not related, they just happen to possibly increase at the same time on occasion
[+]
Offline
Posts: 134
By Guyford 2021-03-29 19:18:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I'm not arguing that chests don't decrease with chests of that type being opened, but this doesn't explain how I am able to pop NMs with 1 item on floor 2 with no NM kills.

Do you mean total number of NM kills in that sheol? Or just of that specific NM. If you're claiming specific NM I can totally refute that as I could pop NMs in Sheol A that I had never popped before with 1 item when I was at MM12 on floor 3. If you are saying total NMs then how do you explain my previous example?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-29 20:00:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I think floor 2 might also be 1 UNM material base cost, and floor 3 is where it jumps. Its total NM kills, not specific NMs.

Moogle Mastery has no effect on anything besides the strength of your trusts.

I went back and read comments from this thread (page 19+ if you're bored from a year ago), and nobody here mentioned rifts costing more than 1 material on floor 2, but multiple people confirmed a jump at floor 3. So its possible that 1+2 across all Sheols is 1 material.

Also, I don't know if this is true:

Guyford said: »
At MM15 in C you can pop stuff on floor 1-3 with 1 item and floor 4 with 2 items.

It takes me exactly 3 Hidhaegg's scales to pop on C4, and I have MM15 in Sheol C.

With max discounts, it should cost 1 material on C1, C2, C3, and 3 on C4.
Offline
Posts: 134
By Guyford 2021-03-29 20:18:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You're probably right on 3 on C4, I just saw 1 wasn't enough so traded a bunch and assumed it was 2 but could have miscounted. We don't often get to NM on 4 as we go with a couple ppl multiboxing.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-03-29 22:18:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
eeternal said: »
YouTube Video Placeholder

~5 mins clear. Anyone able to interpret their strategy? I see ws spam that doesn't sc

They are doing a 4-step, but I didnt see an aura. Either didn't use it, or they sequenced/proc so fast the aura was immediately removed. (Best way to clear aura is to kill it before it goes up!)

Anyone know why the RUN is backwards tanking?

Also, I thought the theory was that you didnt want to SC due to potential Denounce healing and subsequent wipe (unconfirmed). I suppose as a backup plan, it's possible they could have just abandoned the 4-step if Bumba glowed an element they wanted to avoid, but just stuck with the 4-step since it was of no danger in this case.
 Sylph.Brahmsz
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Khronos
By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-30 04:08:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Anyone know why the RUN is backwards tanking?

The most likely reason I could think of would be to avoid possibly healing with rune damage.

Also, even though it's a far shot, given they pinned their character against a pillar, perhaps they just wanted to focus on enmity building?
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 994
By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2021-03-30 07:00:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Possible that they have a 4-step for light and dark setup and ready to go depending on what the mob glow is?
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1910
By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 08:43:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I just ran over that video with Google Translate, and there's a lot of good stuff there.

Level 139
Players need ~1386 accuracy to cap, which apparently does not change with Vengeance level.
It has 122 MDB and 408 INT on V15.


Songs were SV Honor March, Minuet 1/2/3/4 on the melees, and SV Victory March, Minne 4/5, Ballad 2/3 on the tank.

Bubbles were Fend, Fury, Entrust Haste. I assume they Bolstered, but they don't talk about it, and I didn't feel like scanning the chat log for it.

Rolls were Chaos and Samurai.

They were doing Last Stand > Stardiver (Gravitation) > Rudra's Storm (Darkness) > Stardiver (Umbra). The only one I looked at damage-wise ended with a 3k TP 50k Stardiver > 75k Umbra.

Bumba has resistance ranks of 70% for all elements normally, but the one it's absorbing changes to 100%. As such, they were using Darkness Rayke to bring its darkness resistance rank to 115%, which means that the SCs would not only do more damage, but they would also not heal it unless it specifically picked darkness to absorb (which it didn't this run, starting with water and then changing to light). They spammed it full of enfeebles to reduce the chance of Heaven's Grace erasing Rayke, including Impact. They used the COR to keep Rayke up as much as possible with Random Deal and Wild Card. They note that the fight is much longer and more dangerous if you get unlucky (either with Rayke getting erased while its absorbing water/ice/earth or it starting to absorb darkness). It can be silenced to prevent Dispelga.


At 3:18, they start talking about the chest mechanic, but it's too complicated to properly parse with Google Translate.

It says that its chest heals at about 4 minutes into the fight, but you can break its chest again by hitting it with damage corresponding to its weakness. They talk about the weakness a bit, but I can't really get a good reading on it; it almost sounds like something the players do (possibly while it's healing its chest?) determines the weakness. Google translate is janky so they might even just be talking about the normal removal of aura here. I don't think they talked about Denounce.
[+]
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1910
By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 11:07:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Going to go over this guy's other videos to see if there's any interesting info.

All
Defense down effects seem to be weakened (all of them, not just Frailty).

Evasion does not change with Vengeance level.

At V15, they have 15% PDT even to their weakness.

Geomancy resistance scales with Vengeance, and seems to be ~75% at V15.

They start off in "under 25% HP mode", so they TP when they hit 1000 for the whole time.

Xevioso
Takes about 1350 accuracy to cap.

Has about 2000 defense on V15.

Ongo
Has 30% resistance rank for earth, 10% or 15% for other elements.

Ngai
Marine Mayhem works differently; instead of doing OHKO if you're between 5 and 20 yalms away, apparently it does increased damage with greater range.

Silence can be used to prevent Dispelga.

Kalunga
Takes about 1230 accuracy to cap.

Has about 2000 defense on V15.

Arebati
Seems to have a weakness to wind for some reason (video maker is confused too, wonders if its a glitch), so Defense Down works.

Seems to be glitched and does not SP.

Mboze
Rampart, Barrier Tusk, and Perfect Defense reduce Timbeeer's damage.

Due to its complexity, I'm going to deal with Timbeeer's formula in a separate post.
[+]
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 1910
By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-30 11:31:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Timbeeer's Formula

Timbeeer's formula is given as Max HP*(0.8+(8-n)*(0.1+0.05x)), where n = number of people hit, and x = enmity. Enmity seems to refer to actual VE/CE in some way (as it notes damage is lower if Timbeeer is used right after Uproot), but it doesn't go into specific detail.

The video says that the enmity correction caps at 2, but it doesn't clarify whether its referring to entire enmity correction term (IE, 0.1+0.05x), or just x. The former results in range of 0.1-2, while the latter results in a range of 0.1-0.2. The former seems MUCH too large, so it's almost certain that x itself is capped at 2.

This would result in the following numbers (barring things like Rampart):

8+ people, regardless of enmity: 80% of max HP

7+ people, minimum enmity: 90% of max HP
7+ people, maximum enmity: 100% of max HP

6+ people, minimum enmity: 100% of max HP
6+ people, maximum enmity: 120% of max HP

Just as a fun tidbit, the video-maker's theory for pre-nerf Timbeeer's equation is that they accidentally put the x outside the parenthesis, so it was (0.1+0.05)x instead of (0.1+0.05x). This would cause Timbeeer's damage to vary more wildly with enmity. For example, with 6 people and no enmity (like right after Uproot) you'd take 80% of max HP, but with 6 people and max enmity you'd take 140% max HP.
[+]
 Asura.Aquatiq
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Aquatiq
Posts: 158
By Asura.Aquatiq 2021-03-30 12:48:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
does gear with -"breath damage" % help w/ Timber?
First Page 2 3 ... 109 110 111 ... 143 144 145
Log in to post.