Oh~and Youre Parents Must Be Straight...

lolol maybe it's just that good. :3 Also, I'm gay and believe in God. I'm not sure if that makes me religious ? :0 Oh well.^^

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." -Oliver Holmes

We can (Peacefully) speak freely against State Policies without being arrested. We can worship our Gods, Deities, etc freely, without being burned at the stake or exiled.

We cannot, however, go into someone else's home and kick them out "because they're Catholic."

You're perfectly "Free" to break your leg... But just because you do so, someone else is not obligated to fix it. After all, is it not also their Freedom to refuse care?

In the case presented here, it is likely a Private School payed for by the Church and the people paying Tuitions, etc, not the State. Our taxes pay for services offered by the State (Public Schools, Fire Departments, Basic Healthcare- depending where you're at, etc).

Once the government starts mandating who a private entity accepts into their group, you no longer live in a free society.

I am sick of everyone pushing for more and more government intervention... That is simply the opposite of a free society.

~Work by Fenrir.Yugureame via here.

WORD!

Just another example of Americans - not even the government, just regular Americans - relegating specific people to second-class citizen status. Wouldn't want to break several hundred years of tradition.

Part of me wants to write a rather lengthy response concerning capitalism and the state of the american government. I'm told, when organized, my rantings are rather thought-provoking.

However, the other part wonders if that would be not only derailing the thread (even though the conversation was already headed in that direction) but also spark a massive political flamebait.

Although judging from what I've read so far, I have to believe many of you would agree with me. So I leave it up to you, thread. Do I post the summary of my thoughts or stay away?

I agree with others that its the school's right to deny people, and theres absolutely NOTHING the government can or SHOULD do about it.

However, I find it pathetic as *** hell that so many Christians feel so goddamn threatened by the presence of homosexuality. Seriously, what is wrong with it? Because its written in the Bible (which no offense, but in my mind is complete bogus written by people attempting to control the masses... and still effing working two millenia later) that its not holy? What about every other law?
What about the ten goddamn commandments? Homosexuality is not in there, and yet stealing is-- and I can guarrentee atleast 50% of the families participate in stealing one way or another.

What about "You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name?" If you're going to exclude someone because their parents do not fully comply to every written word in the bible, then why not these? Why not monitor to see if they swear, steal, cheat?

When it comes down to it, they just find homosexuals an easy target, because society is still uncomfortable with it, so they can easily push the limits. Its scapegoating pure and simple, and pathetic beyond belief.

Hai, the civil rights movement would like to have a word with you.

If we listened to your argument blacks would still be eating out of the back of restaurants.

Catholicism, yay. And they were going to annex the Episcopalian church lulz. They can do what they want because they are a private school. Keep in mind that catholics do stupid stuff... that girl who was raped by her step father and got excommunicated for it comes to mind.

Apples and Oranges my friend...

When it comes to a public setting government can dictate who we associate with, when, where and how.

We're not talking about or arguing over the validity of that proposition. The instant case pertains to a private, non tax payer funded, religious school.

Now that I've seen your avatar, I expect it. In fact, I was expecting it while reading your post... Then I was like, "Huh? Where's all the good stuff?!"

So I officially demand the good stuff!!!

A very valid argument, I was waiting for someone to make this response.

caveat - I in no way, shape or form condone racism, I am merely using Blindphleb's example.

What if I host a dinner party every week, only inviting some of my closest friends for dinner. What if I only invite white people (simply because my closest friends happen to be white)? Should I be forced to start inviting black people to my dinner parties? Obviously not.

Now, contrast this with a restaurant that is open to the public. If they only serve only white patrons, is that acceptable? Obviously not.

So where does the acceptance standards of a privately funded education system fall? Somewhere in the middle. The question therein becomes: where do we draw the line? Obviously I should not be required to invite a certain race to my dinner party, but yet I am not allowed to exclude a specific race from my restaurant. How much do we impose on an otherwise free society to correct the wrongs of racism? I am not sure how to answer that question. With any government regulation comes a burden on its citizenry (and an obvious burden on their freedom).

At the time of the civil rights movement, no blacks were allowed into any southern (white) restaurant. Therefore, the potential black patron's restaurant selection was severely limited. Contrast this with the fact that the lesbian couple can choose any number of other, equally qualified, private schools (not to mention the free public ones) and not be excluded. Based on this, I do not think your analogy holds...

Anyway, the point i was making... blah blah blah...

Yours Truly,
Summer Glau




P.S. I meant to finish my argument, I just got sleepy and linked a funny instead.

lol @ people trying to sound smart circumventing a valid argument/failing. all you did was reiterate that its a private school, and as such, can do what it wants (youd already said it).. the person you responded to basically said "if a private school can exclude children of gay couples, why not also be able to excluded black children ?" which, if you truly believe what you said there, wouldnt be like comparing apples and oranges at all..

+ your a nazi.
and its cool you dont give a *** what other people think.. thats your right. just be glad you live wherever you live where that shits acceptable.. and not somewhere like these normal chicago suburbs. i hope you realize, people like you, just like this poor kid, wouldnt be welcomed or accepted.. communities that openly and freely accept PEOPLE as they are, and not for what, BUT WHO they are, since we are only just people.. have little to no patience for idiots condoning bigotry, much less people that practice (even if its your right).. call us hypocriteshits. but yeah, public OR private, youd srsly have to be a fool in this town to preach any kind of discrimination.. ppl would be burning your ***down like its 1935 <.<

the only difference between you and that poor kid (who i feel ashamed to even kind of be comparing you to or using an analogy of) would be your choosing to condone that kinda *** here in america @ 2010.. and actually DESERVE to be shunned <.>

/rant

edit: by accept people as they are are, i mean all people that obey the laws of common sense.. if you wanna dress up in bunny suits and have orgys, or pierce your back to hang from a ceiling.. and any/all of the other craziest ***out there only even imaginable.. just dont hurt or kill OTHER ppl, k? ppl making this kid feel like hes a sinner and going to hell, for something he has zero control of in the first place, are definitely not doing him any good.

double edit: ill say holyrunon before anyone.. just like its peoples right to discriminate, or condone discrimination like douchebags.. its just as well mine to suck at grammar. but in my defense, you dont need government, or religion, or even a good education to be a decent human being that knows what pain feels like, and to wish everyone everywhere were safe from it..

I love the double standard of religion.. or should I say religious people... I've been around quite a few Christians who were doing something that wasn't exactly moral or right (not always necessarily flat out wrong, just I guess you'd say, questionable?) and when you said something to them or gave them 'that look' the first thing out of their mouth is 'only God can judge me' or 'it's not your place to judge me' or something along those lines...

Nearly all of these people went on to judge someone else... Everything from trying to 'save someone' (which implies pretty strong judgment) to complete gay bashing (Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve comes to mind)

Now I don't mean to offend any Christian, or someone from any other religion for that matter.. I realize not EVERYONE is that way, but there are a looooot of people like this.. I'm confident there's more hypocritical Christians, then ones that follow the rules set down before them.

I also have to agree with the question of why would these parents send their kid to THIS school... It has nothing to do with with the fact that most religion and being gay just don't mix.. It's a poor decision just for the fact that, going to this particular school (or even this type of school) will make life pretty difficult for the child.. Kids can be mean and cruel even without ammo, this couple pretty much just loaded the gun and pulled the trigger for those kids by sending their son to this school..

Also, yes he has just as much of a right to attend that school as anyone else, BUT, sometimes you really need to step back and think over the bigger picture.. There are sometimes when fighting for your rights, just really isn't worth it, and this would be one of those times.

Typically, I would simply chime in that a private organization reserves the right to deny admission to whomever they please, regardless of the inherent evil behind exercise of that right.

However, when some of the highest quality education comes form religious, private schools, I can't help but wish there were some means of forcing them into admitting the kid.

But then, I suppose that speaks more to the quality of public education as a viable alternative than to the bigoted and hypocritical practices of a Catholic school.

words are just words <.<, who cares. by themselves they arent, aint, is not, and are not ..***. its all about the context / how they are used <.<
sorry to be a grammar nazi nazi, its just a pet peeve of mine too.

no but when reading the whole thing, its not really confusing what he meant.. i didnt stop mid post and think to myself, "wait, what ?".. i was able to understand what he was conveying npnp. like i said, its all about the context <.<.. by them selves, words are just words >.>

its like being a racist or any other kinda bigot kinda.. dont discriminate on ppl because of what they are saying looks.. discriminate the discrimination.

edit: some ppl get a good education and end up having good grammar for life.. some dont.. does it make them or what they say any less anything at all necessarily ?

double edit: i should of just more specifically said.. thats cool if its a pet peeve of yours, and correct people all you want... its as much your right to do as anything else.. just know though, if you try to discredit ppl SOLELY on grammar.. you are pretty much the epitome of bigotry yourself >.> and that specifically is what i have a pet peeve against.

Meh.

As a known atheist, I know my child couldn't attend the school. I think the parents were doing this simply as a stunt; why would they send the child, knowing this is a perfectly reasonable and likely outcome that would "hurt" their child, to this school otherwise?

Life's a ***, I think people should ask themselves why they think they should be accepted into any club if they don't meet the criteria. Catholic schools kick people out who "live in sin" or who have parents who "live in sin." It's nothing new.

Think y'all are making something out of nothing. Catholic school education isn't even any better than public these days.

Interesting that business wasn't mentioned... Guess I'll start that angle!

Private people are paying for a service with their money. If those people become unhappy, it's perfectly plausible that they'll have no part of it.

Now, if allowing in 1 person will cause 5 to leave, is it truly a wise business move?

Let's take that idea to an extreme and say that many people decide to stop supporting the business altogether. This means, in the case of a school, higher costs for each person and/or a much lesser quality of learning. It could even go so far as to shutdown the school completely. Then guess what? Everybody gets screwed over!

Now I ask, how is that fair?

Once again:

Now, let's jump to another angle. Is it fair that group A, which has the majority, has stronger say than group B? Or person C has more say than group D?

If people are so avid on everything being "Fair" then why live in society at all?


-Finally, regardless of anyone's religion, people aren't going to be perfect. I've met the crazy Christians who can do no wrong, and I've met the ones who acknowledge the fact that they are flawed; and they just happen to have one thing in common... They're Human!

i agree its most likely a stunt, and probably to segway a law suit in the end.. but its a good precedence to be setting anyway.. the government can (and most likely will someday for gays too) mandate everyone has equal rights, private or public. wiki black and womens rights in us history.

edit: and lets just say im arguing this on behalf of childrens rights instead... ill save business/industry vs civil rights for another day. all im saying is a child cant control being born into a gay couple anymore they can being born into a black or white or purple couple.. if the government can say, regardless of anything, x y & z kids have to be allowed into schools (private or public), why not children of gays who are also no different in anyway/shape/form ?

I was going to make some comments pertaining to rights (both of the public and the private), religion, politics, and grammar, but what's the point when everyone has hit a facet of whatever I was going to post, aye?

So, to be completely off-topic: if anyone was typing some official document or public sign/billboard, then, yes, I would get agitated at any "there, they're, their" errors. Unless it was an intentional error.

Back on-topic, this news is like a lot of other news: it could have been taken care of quietly and privately. It's a publicity stunt.

I blame the Pagans. And by Pagans I mean the motorcycle gang.

What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? It is abundantly clear that homosexuality was the primary evil. The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the LORD and two angels coming to speak with Abraham. The LORD reiterated His promise to Abraham that he would have a son through Sarah. The LORD also informed Abraham that "the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous." Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the LORD to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham's nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom.



When parents do wrong or experience punishment on earth, their children share the ill effects - if a parent is put in jail, their children are adversely affected; if a parent is abusive or negligent, their children suffer. This sort of thing occurs in many places in the Bible. For instance, Achan and his family died as a result of his disobeying God (Joshua 7). However, while children often shared the earthly punishment of their parents, they would not be punished for their parents' sins in the afterlife. Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that the real guilt belongs to the person who sinned, not their family. Deuteronomy 24:16 is an application of this principle to human-administered justice: while God decreed that some sins merited the death penalty, humans were not to apply the penalty to anyone other than the guilty party. If, as in the case of Achan, a family or nation was to be corporately punished, only God had the authority to decide that corporate punishment was merited.

Quote function is being annoying so I'll do it manually.
This is pretty much how I feel about the topic. It's the school's right, but it's still a douchebag move (like someone else said as well).

Christianity is so full of hypocrites and double standards.

I am Agnostic. I don't need religion to tell me the difference between right and wrong. I don't need them to tell me what decisions I should make in life. No, I'm not perfect. Yes, I will make mistakes. That's life. I refuse to live my life worrying about what might happen in a place that may or may not even exist.

Homosexuals are people to. Unless they're shoving their lifestyle down your throat, what gives you the right to discriminate against them? (Not arguing about the private schools' rights here. Don't misinterpret that.)

For some reason when I read that I thought of this video:

Actually just because it's a private school does not mean they get to do what they want. Take renting an apartment, I cannot say because you have kids, are black, Asian, gay or w/e that you can't live here. The biggest problem for the school is the reason they are denying service.

You DO NOT have the right to refuse service based on the follow: religion, sexual orientation, race, greed, disabilities ect.

If they had denied them service for lack of money or the child wasn't up to stuff for the school, that would be ok but for the reason which they denied it violates parts of our constitution.


2gil

I lol'd hard at that.