The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Gz Mischief. Cool strategy but seems very hard. Wouldn't it be easier to replace WHM with PLD on second KI. You wouldn't need that much healing if PLD is tanking adds with Duban. BLU is then free to do more damage and support/heal with easy. Can possibly even tank or share hate on Mboze with DRK. Everyone can use meds to remove statuses and Blu can winds of promyvion too I guess. Seems like similar idea but easier approach?
Considering you probably "need" NiTro to land Elegy, Nocturne and Wind Threnody II on Mboze (probably not on adds, but pretty confident you do on Mboze) then that's a lot of songs to be cast in the 80 seconds granted by NiTro.
5 songs on everyone, then pianissimo 1 additional minne on BLU, then 3 songs on Mboze and finally 2 ballads on the WHM.
That requires very careful song cast order selection and extremely good coordination of when to use NiTro only seconds before pulling.
I guess you need to sing close to Mboze and pull right before applying second minne on BLU, so that BRD still has NiTro up when casting the 3 debuffs and finally the 2 ballads on the WHM.
Not the sort of fight I'd love to do over and over again, but thankfully one kill is enough to be able to farm RP I guess, lol
5 songs on everyone, then pianissimo 1 additional minne on BLU, then 3 songs on Mboze and finally 2 ballads on the WHM.
That requires very careful song cast order selection and extremely good coordination of when to use NiTro only seconds before pulling.
I guess you need to sing close to Mboze and pull right before applying second minne on BLU, so that BRD still has NiTro up when casting the 3 debuffs and finally the 2 ballads on the WHM.
Not the sort of fight I'd love to do over and over again, but thankfully one kill is enough to be able to farm RP I guess, lol
SimonSes said: »
Gz Mischief. Cool strategy but seems very hard. Wouldn't it be easier to replace WHM with PLD on second KI. You wouldn't need that much healing if PLD is tanking adds with Duban. BLU is then free to do more damage and support/heal with easy. Can possibly even tank or share hate on Mboze with DRK. Everyone can use meds to remove statuses and Blu can winds of promyvion too I guess. Seems like similar idea but easier approach?
We tried PLD healing him and while I think it's doable (saw a pretty low % timeout with PLD healer/offtank), having no source of dia and no auspice are two huge downsides to that approach.
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Grats Chief! Hoping to get some pulls in on Thursday when we’re all off work. Thank you for the info!
Asura.Bigtymer said: »
SimonSes said: »
Gz Mischief. Cool strategy but seems very hard. Wouldn't it be easier to replace WHM with PLD on second KI. You wouldn't need that much healing if PLD is tanking adds with Duban. BLU is then free to do more damage and support/heal with easy. Can possibly even tank or share hate on Mboze with DRK. Everyone can use meds to remove statuses and Blu can winds of promyvion too I guess. Seems like similar idea but easier approach?
We tried PLD healing him and while I think it's doable (saw a pretty low % timeout with PLD healer/offtank), having no source of dia and no auspice are two huge downsides to that approach.
I mean PLD doesn't need to cure alone. Blu can easily spam ~1500 AOE cure. Dia Ii could indeed be a downside, but BLU not needing to tank two adds can easily bring much more DPS than losing dia II. Now Auspice is mostly a problem for WSs, because you would TP on add anyway, so I guess it's a matter of using maybe one or two SB pieces in your WS set (assuming it's even needed), which again shouldn't be that much DPS drop, that BLU couldn't counter with added DPS while not being occupied with tanking adds. They also had lots of time remaining it seems.
We did a handful of runs with a PLD instead of a WHM actually. We then broke away from Mboze and instead tackled Arebati before rethinking what works for us on tree. DPS was the issue on those runs, iirc.
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SimonSes said: »
Gz Mischief. Cool strategy but seems very hard. Wouldn't it be easier to replace WHM with PLD on second KI. You wouldn't need that much healing if PLD is tanking adds with Duban. BLU is then free to do more damage and support/heal with easy. Can possibly even tank or share hate on Mboze with DRK. Everyone can use meds to remove statuses and Blu can winds of promyvion too I guess. Seems like similar idea but easier approach?
Kindly, why don’t you try your theory craft and come back to us? If Mischief and his group already won, and gave us a strategy, why don’t you report back to us with your suggestions to open up another strategy for other people who may not want a “very hard” one. :)
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Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
SimonSes said: »
Gz Mischief. Cool strategy but seems very hard. Wouldn't it be easier to replace WHM with PLD on second KI. You wouldn't need that much healing if PLD is tanking adds with Duban. BLU is then free to do more damage and support/heal with easy. Can possibly even tank or share hate on Mboze with DRK. Everyone can use meds to remove statuses and Blu can winds of promyvion too I guess. Seems like similar idea but easier approach?
Kindly, why don’t you try your theory craft and come back to us? If Mischief and his group already won, and gave us a strategy, why don’t you report back to us with your suggestions to open up another strategy for other people who may not want a “very hard” one. :)
I will try for sure, but because of various RL reasons our static is currently on hold until Weeew come back and we only cleared A1 and A2 so far and haven't tried A3 yet.
Mischief strategy being good doesn't mean it's not worth to try to adapt it and make small changes. This strategy puts massive pressure on BLU and it fits Mischiefs group because he is tremendously good player (I assume he was BLU), who can pull this off.
Bahamut.Xiutaru said: »
We did a handful of runs with a PLD instead of a WHM actually. We then broke away from Mboze and instead tackled Arebati before rethinking what works for us on tree. DPS was the issue on those runs, iirc.
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
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SimonSes said: »
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
It's not like we tried one fight with PLD and stopped, so getting "used to the fight" isn't it. I don't remember the auras and CBA to rewatch the vids. I just remember stuns and getting paralyzed alot while using remedies, which resulted in both me (PLD) and the BLU missing cures that resulted in death. In practice, hate was shakier. A few times, the adds unexpectedly got on the BLU, etc. Just alot of things that happened in practice that aren't factored in in these hypotheticals.
We started with one strat and kept changing things the more we fought it. WHM just happens to be the one we stuck with since it worked better for us as a team. You are more than welcome to try the PLD method which we decided not to continue using.
The RDM was used in the first KI for us.
Edit:
SimonSes said: »
This strategy puts massive pressure on BLU and it fits Mischiefs group because he is tremendously good player (I assume he was BLU), who can pull this off.
YouTube Video Placeholder
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SimonSes said: »
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
This is why Bhuukki called you an armchair general. You're sitting there in your chair, haven't tried the fight, telling general that have tried and tested various strategies and found one that worked and have won that they could have done better/win easier if they just xxx.
Doesn't matter how many jobs you play, doesn't matter that you know everything there is to know about every jobs. If you're telling people what strategy they should try without having tried them yourself, you're armchair generaling/back seat fighting.
You want to know if PLD wouldn't be better than WHM? Be a frontline general, try it with PLD, test it out yourself, then you'll know.
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This is why we block simon instead of pointlessly arguing page after page.
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I'll add that my comfort job is WHM. So maybe me being the PLD could have been the weak link in those fights. So I'm glad they wanted a WHM though lol.
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Bahamut.Suph said: »
SimonSes said: »
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
This is why Bhuukki called you an armchair general. You're sitting there in your chair, haven't tried the fight, telling general that have tried and tested various strategies and found one that worked and have won that they could have done better/win easier if they just xxx.
Doesn't matter how many jobs you play, doesn't matter that you know everything there is to know about every jobs. If you're telling people what strategy they should try without having tried them yourself, you're armchair generaling/back seat fighting.
You want to know if PLD wouldn't be better than WHM? Be a frontline general, try it with PLD, test it out yourself, then you'll know.
You completely confuse my intention. I'm asking about alternatives to make it easier or more accessible for other, including myself. I'm not saying that Mischief/Xiu should do it differently. They did what worked the best for them. I'm just trying to look for slightly alternative approach for people who can't copy exactly that strat. Because of asking I now have much better info from Xiu's responses and can adapt better. It's especially important for our group because we don't have much time/segments to make massive amount of attempts. That's all.
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SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
SimonSes said: »
Gz Mischief. Cool strategy but seems very hard. Wouldn't it be easier to replace WHM with PLD on second KI. You wouldn't need that much healing if PLD is tanking adds with Duban. BLU is then free to do more damage and support/heal with easy. Can possibly even tank or share hate on Mboze with DRK. Everyone can use meds to remove statuses and Blu can winds of promyvion too I guess. Seems like similar idea but easier approach?
Kindly, why don’t you try your theory craft and come back to us? If Mischief and his group already won, and gave us a strategy, why don’t you report back to us with your suggestions to open up another strategy for other people who may not want a “very hard” one. :)
I will try for sure, but because of various RL reasons our static is currently on hold until Weeew come back and we only cleared A1 and A2 so far and haven't tried A3 yet.
Mischief strategy being good doesn't mean it's not worth to try to adapt it and make small changes. This strategy puts massive pressure on BLU and it fits Mischiefs group because he is tremendously good player (I assume he was BLU), who can pull this off.
Bahamut.Xiutaru said: »
We did a handful of runs with a PLD instead of a WHM actually. We then broke away from Mboze and instead tackled Arebati before rethinking what works for us on tree. DPS was the issue on those runs, iirc.
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
This is why we block simon instead of pointlessly arguing page after page.
Haha that's great if you want to block people because they ask questions about possible strategy for Odyssey fight in Odyssey thread, then be my guest.
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Bahamut.Xiutaru said: »
I'll add that my comfort job is WHM. So maybe me being the PLD could have been the weak link in those fights. So I'm glad they wanted a WHM though lol.
Alternate thoughts like Simons are good.
No need to block just ignore if you don’t like them.
No need to block just ignore if you don’t like them.
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SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Suph said: »
SimonSes said: »
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
This is why Bhuukki called you an armchair general. You're sitting there in your chair, haven't tried the fight, telling general that have tried and tested various strategies and found one that worked and have won that they could have done better/win easier if they just xxx.
Doesn't matter how many jobs you play, doesn't matter that you know everything there is to know about every jobs. If you're telling people what strategy they should try without having tried them yourself, you're armchair generaling/back seat fighting.
You want to know if PLD wouldn't be better than WHM? Be a frontline general, try it with PLD, test it out yourself, then you'll know.
You completely confuse my intention. I'm asking about alternatives to make it easier or more accessible for other, including myself. I'm not saying that Mischief/Xiu should do it differently. They did what worked the best for them. I'm just trying to look for slightly alternative approach for people who can't copy exactly that strat. Because of asking I now have much better info from Xiu's responses and can adapt better. It's especially important for our group because we don't have much time/segments to make massive amount of attempts. That's all.
I mean, by asking if it wouldn't be easier to replace PLD with WHM, you're assuming/implying they haven't tried/thought of that which come off as very presumptuous.
And once Xiu replied that they had and couldn't get it to work, you dismissed her reply by asking if its not just bad luck/not experienced enough with the fight.
The only way for them to really answer your question is to go back to Mboze with PLD instead of WHM and keep trying and trying and wasting their seg and time.
They have already given you their winning strategy, if you think you have a better strategy, go test it. Its on you to find out if your strategy is indeed better, and not on them to test if they failed in executing your better strategy because they were unlucky/not used to the fight.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
This is why we block simon instead of pointlessly arguing page after page.
THIS THREAD NEEDS LOVE
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Bahamut.Xiutaru said: »
SimonSes said: »
Could that be a problem of unlucky auras or just getting used to the fight? Dia II and boost-str shouldn't be that impactful, with context of BLU being able to DPS more. Another idea would also be RDM instead of WHM. Then we get better Dia, can disable one add with bind/sleep and we can put some strong debuffs on Mboze and 2nd add to make life much easier for BLU tanking one add and DRK tanking Mboze.
It's not like we tried one fight with PLD and stopped, so getting "used to the fight" isn't it. I don't remember the auras and CBA to rewatch the vids. I just remember stuns and getting paralyzed alot while using remedies, which resulted in both me (PLD) and the BLU missing cures that resulted in death. In practice, hate was shakier. A few times, the adds unexpectedly got on the BLU, etc. Just alot of things that happened in practice that aren't factored in in these hypotheticals.
We started with one strat and kept changing things the more we fought it. WHM just happens to be the one we stuck with since it worked better for us as a team. You are more than welcome to try the PLD method which we decided not to continue using.
The RDM was used in the first KI for us.
Edit:
SimonSes said: »
This strategy puts massive pressure on BLU and it fits Mischiefs group because he is tremendously good player (I assume he was BLU), who can pull this off.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Very cool fight.
Question/thought (We're not there yet). What do you think about war switching to axe and doing Mistral/Calamity after add pops instead of sharing Savage with the other sword user (rdm I think?)
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Meds stopped existing?
Taint said: »
Alternate thoughts like Simons are good.
No need to block just ignore if you don’t like them.
No need to block just ignore if you don’t like them.
they are good if he tests them himself. Sitting back and just saying “But did you try…?” help no one. Sorry not sorry, his stuff is never put in practice, it’s just spreadsheets.
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Think we were just talking about blu counter in the blu tanking thread the other day. Cool to see a high level use case for it
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Very cool fight.
Question/thought (We're not there yet). What do you think about war switching to axe and doing Mistral/Calamity after add pops instead of sharing Savage with the other sword user (rdm I think?)
Question/thought (We're not there yet). What do you think about war switching to axe and doing Mistral/Calamity after add pops instead of sharing Savage with the other sword user (rdm I think?)
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Bahamut.Suph said: »
I mean, by asking if it wouldn't be easier to replace PLD with WHM, you're assuming/implying they haven't tried/thought of that which come off as very presumptuous.
If they started with winning setup, they maybe didn't try something else. I know they did now, but didn't know when I was asking the question.
Bahamut.Suph said: »
And once Xiu replied that they had and couldn't get it to work, you dismissed her reply by asking if its not just bad luck/not experienced enough with the fight.
Yes, because she said they stopped and switched to Arebati, so when they tried it again they knew much more about it from previous attempts and since I didn't know details of their PLD attempts I asked. Again I got very good info by asking those questions, so not exactly see what's your problem here.
Bahamut.Suph said: »
The only way for them to really answer your question is to go back to Mboze with PLD instead of WHM and keep trying and trying and wasting their seg and time.
This is obviously not true, because like you can read they tried it, so could answered from experience. I haven't once asked them to go try it again, just what they think from experience of fighting it. Even if they wouldn't tried PLD, they could still predict how PLD could work there. Like I said we don't have much segments or time. We will be probably able to try 2 attempts every 2 days max, so preparation is key and learning from other people experience is very important.
Bahamut.Suph said: »
They have already given you their winning strategy, if you think you have a better strategy, go test it.
Not better, just different and more suited for my group. Once again, I can't simply test what I want. I have 2 kids, one is 3 months old, full time job and wife who goes crazy when I play more than 90 minutes every other day in the evening (only time when I can play static), so I don't have luxury to try everything.
Bahamut.Suph said: »
Its on you to find out if your strategy is indeed better, and not on them to test if they failed in executing your better strategy because they were unlucky/not used to the fight.
Again I have no idea where you get an impression that I suggest, that they should go and test it. I obviously only asked what they think based on experience, because my theorycrafting can have many holes that I would like to know before I waste an event time on realizing them.
SimonSes said: »
I mean PLD doesn't need to cure alone. Blu can easily spam ~1500 AOE cure.
I mean I didn't say that PLD was the only source of heals. Please re-read my post with a focus on reading comprehension. Maybe have some coffee before reading it?
SimonSes said: »
They also had lots of time remaining it seems.
I look forward to hearing about how easily you beat this fight. I mean, you've basically already beaten Bumba, even if in theory only. That counts, right?
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GREAT job Xiutaru, Pikohan, Deadlypanda, Relak, Yoroitsune and Mischief!
Bumba gonna be TOO WEAK!
Bumba gonna be TOO WEAK!
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Bahamut.Mhysa said: »
Taint said: »
Alternate thoughts like Simons are good.
No need to block just ignore if you don’t like them.
No need to block just ignore if you don’t like them.
they are good if he tests them himself. Sitting back and just saying “But did you try…?” help no one. Sorry not sorry, his stuff is never put in practice, it’s just spreadsheets.
It helps me :) I obviously try my theorycrafting eventually because I haven't paid for my V20 clears or V25 A1 and A2 lol
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