I didn't write that's water damage on bg.
And I said if toss is, then spread should be too.
If someone has bst and has a ton of pet mab, they should try it out.
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
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Iirc my strategy for the actual garbage gel was just sudden lunge and kill. Stunning the thing for half a minute gives an awful lot of time to not take dmg
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Does anybody know if the add Regen on T2+ main bosses are removed based on distance? I know the aura can be ranged, and the aura changes with the second add. Just curious if the Regen is the same way.
Also, if you spawn an add on an initial fight and take off 50% of it's health, when you enter the following fight and the boss summons him, does he have 50% or full health?
Lastly, I was looking at some JP wiki tweets from Aramith and he posted a screenshot where his group dealt 96k and 84k SC damage to the Procne add, using a 4-step SC or something (not sure about the second one)
https://twitter.com/Aramith9/status/1602671325239443458
https://twitter.com/Aramith9/status/1602659161481039873/photo/1
]I don't know what to make of this, one because it's just a picture and two because I can't read japanese. I also saw another retweet from him where Lute appears to say something along the lines of where the WS damage wall was temporarily disabled when they performed a Realmrazer > Savage Blade MB Fire, then the same SC right after, but the Savage Blade damage was not walled. It's kind of hard to see (I slowed it down to .5 speed to verify), but he shows his chat log and you can see where he deals about 35k Savage Blade closing a Realmrazer, which under ordinary circumstances, should have been walled for 10 seconds. This was in Sortie, so it could be different, but they do talk about the possibility that the same mechanic could apply in some way.
https://twitter.com/luteff11/status/1602456012795318272?cxt=HHwWgMDUrZzQiL0sAAAA
This is the second time I have seen a JP player mention SC damage in reference to either bypassing this WS wall or trying to deal damage around it.
I don't know anything, just sharing info.
Also, if you spawn an add on an initial fight and take off 50% of it's health, when you enter the following fight and the boss summons him, does he have 50% or full health?
Lastly, I was looking at some JP wiki tweets from Aramith and he posted a screenshot where his group dealt 96k and 84k SC damage to the Procne add, using a 4-step SC or something (not sure about the second one)
https://twitter.com/Aramith9/status/1602671325239443458
https://twitter.com/Aramith9/status/1602659161481039873/photo/1
]I don't know what to make of this, one because it's just a picture and two because I can't read japanese. I also saw another retweet from him where Lute appears to say something along the lines of where the WS damage wall was temporarily disabled when they performed a Realmrazer > Savage Blade MB Fire, then the same SC right after, but the Savage Blade damage was not walled. It's kind of hard to see (I slowed it down to .5 speed to verify), but he shows his chat log and you can see where he deals about 35k Savage Blade closing a Realmrazer, which under ordinary circumstances, should have been walled for 10 seconds. This was in Sortie, so it could be different, but they do talk about the possibility that the same mechanic could apply in some way.
https://twitter.com/luteff11/status/1602456012795318272?cxt=HHwWgMDUrZzQiL0sAAAA
This is the second time I have seen a JP player mention SC damage in reference to either bypassing this WS wall or trying to deal damage around it.
I don't know anything, just sharing info.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Iirc my strategy for the actual garbage gel was just sudden lunge and kill. Stunning the thing for half a minute gives an awful lot of time to not take dmg
As in: the duration of stun from sudden lunge gets noticeably reduced on successive casts.
Also I frequently get those nasty situations where it still gains a lot of TP while stunned, and decides to use fluid Spred (because stun wears off) exactly the second you press your Savage Blade macro, meaning you won't be able to stun that and it will wipe all your trusts.
Happened to me several times alas.
So no I wouldn't say relying just on Zerg + Sudden Lunge would be reliable for a mob like this. And I was doing it with Chaos Roll, Dia3, Tenebral Crush and Nat Meditation. My Savage Blades were hitting pretty nicely but it still has way too much HP for such a strat to be reliable when you're solo with trusts, imho.
Always just self-SC'd and bursted it down before the stun resistance could get that bad myself, no idea if that will translate to the ody version
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Yeah wiki is not the bible. It's edited by players. The BEASTMASTER guide lists them as physical and PDT cuts the damage of fluid toss/spread. You can go test it if you want
Edit: Didn't see the new page and other post
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Does anybody know if the add Regen on T2+ main bosses are removed based on distance?
Hey boys, here is some nibblers for ya, some of which might already be known, but to reiterate.
Tier 2, Henwen specifically.
Adds do NOT have any of the weaknesses/strengths that the main NMs have. Henwen's Raaz's took full damage from Slashing, Piercing, and even Leaden Salute.
There is absolutely zero chance you kill them thru double add Regen. You can't even move it from 40% with a super sweaty set-up.
One add is gonna need to die. That is just baked into the cake the rest of the way for any NM that is melee'd.
Tier 2, Henwen specifically.
Adds do NOT have any of the weaknesses/strengths that the main NMs have. Henwen's Raaz's took full damage from Slashing, Piercing, and even Leaden Salute.
There is absolutely zero chance you kill them thru double add Regen. You can't even move it from 40% with a super sweaty set-up.
One add is gonna need to die. That is just baked into the cake the rest of the way for any NM that is melee'd.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
There is absolutely zero chance you kill them thru double add Regen. You can't even move it from 40% with a super sweaty set-up.
One add is gonna need to die. That is just baked into the cake the rest of the way for any NM that is melee'd.
One add is gonna need to die. That is just baked into the cake the rest of the way for any NM that is melee'd.
We actually got one of the T2 bosses to 14% with 2 DDs, but timed out. Likely would have won, but even with Dirge, DDs were capping hate, and we were fighting Gigelorum, so one of the DDs lost all of their buffs. We also had to reposition several times in the fight due to the adds wandering over. I agree though, unless there's some way to bypass the wall, it seems the intended mechanic is to kill an add before downing the boss on a subsequent run.
Oh by the way, Gigelorum apparently is 100% immune to Typeless/Spirit damage. Chi blast consistently hit zero, and Formless Strikes did 0 damage while Invincible was in effect. I don't know if that's new or was always the case.
And you can't sacrifice the zombie he applies from Debilitating spout anymore. It wasn't always that way, so unsure if these are glitches or intended changes.
Henwen also blocked the same moves, so its safe to assume they made these mobs immune to breath/spirit damage.
And you can't sacrifice the zombie he applies from Debilitating spout anymore. It wasn't always that way, so unsure if these are glitches or intended changes.
Henwen also blocked the same moves, so its safe to assume they made these mobs immune to breath/spirit damage.
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Bahamut.Belkin said: »
There is absolutely zero chance you kill them thru double add Regen. You can't even move it from 40% with a super sweaty set-up.
One add is gonna need to die. That is just baked into the cake the rest of the way for any NM that is melee'd.
One add is gonna need to die. That is just baked into the cake the rest of the way for any NM that is melee'd.
Uh, this is just not true. We killed all the T2's ignoring the adds and just powering through the regen.
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Wait, what? Arebati isn't affected by the WS wall? Are you not using any WS on Arebati, just white damage from shooting? Because for every run I've been on, we've been using WS every 2 seconds on both COR and RNG.
I could see Arebati being impacted less by the WS wall, but obviously the WS wall still exists here. COR damage is kinda fart noise to begin with, they can just stop WSing. Even a state-of-the-art COR is barely pushing 30% overall damage on an Arebati. The RNG is the star of the show. A bulk of RNG damage is white damage/empyrean crits. The RNG would definitely want to be the one WSing every 10 seconds though, which isn't even necessarily a bad thing, as you would end up getting 2500+ TP for every WS. And you can use Rogue's Roll now instead of Samurai.
Though, RNG and damage in general won't be the problem with Arebati. It'll be the two pigs from Hell running roughshod on your bootyhole.
RNG shouldnt WS. COR should.
RNG not WSing is still massive DPS. COR should WS, because it looses much more damage not WSing. Also the even more important thing is hate. If you let RNG do 90% of damage (and it will be like that with COR not WSing), then you will reach hate cap twice (before and after Caper Emissarius) on RNG and you will die in worst moment. It was already a close call at V20.
At the same time you Last stand on RNG, you can do like 1.5 round of shooting for like 30-50k damage, while you cor will do like 5k. Also like I said, you will cap hate on RNG and die if you do all the damage. At V20 Caper Emissarius needed to be used around 50% or else RNG would take cap hate around that %. If you on V25 let RNG do 90% of damage it will cap hate at like 60%, you will Caper Emissarius and it will cap again around 10-20% and die (especially with higher regen on v25), unless you get lucky on Wild Card. No idea why you want to risk that, when RNG just shooting and Cor shooting + WSing will destroy Arebati anyway. Just Bolster at 40%. Ofc this is assuming you find a way to kill 1st add, unless you want to brute force through 2 adds, but that might be risky even with Bolster Barrier and Minne IV/V. Raaz hits like a truck.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Iirc my strategy for the actual garbage gel was just sudden lunge and kill. Stunning the thing for half a minute gives an awful lot of time to not take dmg
this is the correct answer. Sudden Lunge is correct answer to a lot of stuff, but people keep forgetting about it somehow.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Iirc my strategy for the actual garbage gel was just sudden lunge and kill. Stunning the thing for half a minute gives an awful lot of time to not take dmg
As in: the duration of stun from sudden lunge gets noticeably reduced on successive casts.
Also I frequently get those nasty situations where it still gains a lot of TP while stunned, and decides to use fluid Spred (because stun wears off) exactly the second you press your Savage Blade macro, meaning you won't be able to stun that and it will wipe all your trusts.
Happened to me several times alas.
So no I wouldn't say relying just on Zerg + Sudden Lunge would be reliable for a mob like this. And I was doing it with Chaos Roll, Dia3, Tenebral Crush and Nat Meditation. My Savage Blades were hitting pretty nicely but it still has way too much HP for such a strat to be reliable when you're solo with trusts, imho.
You dont need to stun all of them, just stun it during Might Strike and prioritize stun during mighty strike (dont make more than 1-2 WSs), just wait for sun wears off msg with finger on Sudden Lunge button. All the Def you listed will easily let you survive all the non MS spread.
Asura.Bigtymer said: »
Uh, this is just not true. We killed all the T2's ignoring the adds and just powering through the regen.
It is easy to accept that I am bad at game, but that bad that we could not move it from 40%? You just 100% to 0% Henwen in a single phone ignoring both adds?
What exactly was the setup on Henwen then? We were PLD/MNK/WAR/BRD/COR/WHM. You must've had a different setup. MNK was Verethragna white damage only, WAR was Judgment every 10 seconds.
Forgive me, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this based on what I just witnessed first hand.
EDIT: I was disingenuous when I said we could not move it from 40%. After it was clear to me that it was insurmountable in the remaining time, we just started doing science on adds and their resistances to various things.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
Asura.Bigtymer said: »
Uh, this is just not true. We killed all the T2's ignoring the adds and just powering through the regen.
It is easy to accept that I am bad at game, but that bad that we could not move it from 40%? You just 100% to 0% Henwen in a single phone ignoring both adds?
What exactly was the setup on Henwen then? We were PLD/MNK/WAR/BRD/COR/WHM. You must've had a different setup. MNK was Verethragna white damage only, WAR was Judgment every 10 seconds.
Forgive me, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this based on what I just witnessed first hand.
Even at that with 2 DD on it, the TP spam from Gigelorum is almost too much to handle from the tank being dispelled etc
I haven't done Henwen, but if you're ignoring the adds, WHM in your strategy is effectively useless if you have PLD. he can heal himself and others with Majesty, he blocks every attack from the front, and Henwen can't dispel, so PLD can just stand there and take his hits. Just swap a RDM in and sleep the adds is what I would do. The only thing worth being afraid of is maybe capping hate and Henwen turning and murdering your DD.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I haven't done Henwen, but if you're ignoring the adds, WHM in your strategy is effectively useless if you have PLD. he can heal himself and others with Majesty, he blocks every attack from the front, and Henwen can't dispel, so PLD can just stand there and take his hits. Just swap a RDM in and sleep the adds is what I would do. The only thing worth being afraid of is maybe capping hate and Henwen turning and murdering your DD.
I can dig it. Good point about sleeping them. Forgot about that aspect.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
PLD/MNK/WAR/BRD/COR/WHM
From my experience you are super far from attack cap with this setup, especially that you probably needed some def buffs from BRD right?
Solo MNK with GEO would make more damage here than WAR+MNK without GEO. Could maybe change WHM to GEO and WAR to BLU. BLU can main heal and do Black Halo. People would need to have and use meds tho. Also Bolster below 40% and make SV last until end (recast songs at the end of soul voice timer).
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
Asura.Bigtymer said: »
Uh, this is just not true. We killed all the T2's ignoring the adds and just powering through the regen.
It is easy to accept that I am bad at game, but that bad that we could not move it from 40%? You just 100% to 0% Henwen in a single phone ignoring both adds?
What exactly was the setup on Henwen then? We were PLD/MNK/WAR/BRD/COR/WHM. You must've had a different setup. MNK was Verethragna white damage only, WAR was Judgment every 10 seconds.
Forgive me, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this based on what I just witnessed first hand.
EDIT: I was disingenuous when I said we could not move it from 40%. After it was clear to me that it was insurmountable in the remaining time, we just started doing science on adds and their resistances to various things.
Yes, single phone, not killing adds. That was our Henwen setup as well, minus the WHM - RDM instead.
A related aside - not only directed at you, but it's generally a good idea to show restraint when claiming "impossible", or "absolutely zero chance", or "AV-level of difficulty" when the content is just days old. Statements like that are just premature at this point.
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
They work differently for single target too. Multi hits will always eat only 1 blink shadow whereas they will eat 1 utsusemi shadow per hit that you don't evade
Third eye and blink are more similar than blink and utsu. Only difference for third eye is that it only works for physical attacks whereas blink also works on spells.
Third eye and blink are more similar than blink and utsu. Only difference for third eye is that it only works for physical attacks whereas blink also works on spells.
Don't mean to keep bringing this side talk up, but isnt this statement not fully accurate? I know for example when I fight Glassy Gorger solo on blu, Quad. Continuum takes 4 occultation shadows, not 1. Single Target physical multi hits should function the same as utsusemi when it comes to blink, where as AoE's are where it gets wiped rather than soaked.
That's unusual behavior, because it is supposed to take every hit with a single shadow. This is observable on other multihit attacks like Quadrastrike and Thrashing Assault.
I'm not taking blu to 99 to test occultation on spread. I already took a fresh account and unlocked bst to 99 just to be certain spread is not a hybrid move.
(and someone needs to remove the water damage from fluid toss on the slime page too)
(and someone needs to remove the water damage from fluid toss on the slime page too)
You don't need to test occultation on an aoe. Occultation gives Blink, blink is removed by aoes. End of story.
An interesting development I thought might be helpful to people:
Did a B-team Gigelorum chip run earlier where we took it to 74% then basically played footsies with the add for the remaining 12~ minutes (we did not kill the add). We didn't deal any damage to Gigelorum for the remainder of the fight, so he Regenerated health back up to 88% when we timed out. On the next fight using the "real" team, Gigelorum was at 76%, not 75%, 88% or even 90% (we assumed he'd round up to the nearest 5% mark). Couldn't understand why he went up to 76% specifically, since we had taken him to 74% at his lowest on the prior run. On another double Gig attempt, we again took it past 75%. On the following fight, he was also at 76%. It would appear that SE made a certain threshold where bosses won't regenerate past on subsequent runs, even if the add on the previous run puts Regen on the boss and beyond 76%. So on a subsequent run, even if not killing the add on the first run, so long as you damage the boss beyond a certain point, he won't regen back to full on a future fight. This behavior already seems to be different than the V15 versions I remember, but may have been present in the V20s version.
Also, Purulent Ooze consistently landed on Gigelorum even without Rayke.
Did a B-team Gigelorum chip run earlier where we took it to 74% then basically played footsies with the add for the remaining 12~ minutes (we did not kill the add). We didn't deal any damage to Gigelorum for the remainder of the fight, so he Regenerated health back up to 88% when we timed out. On the next fight using the "real" team, Gigelorum was at 76%, not 75%, 88% or even 90% (we assumed he'd round up to the nearest 5% mark). Couldn't understand why he went up to 76% specifically, since we had taken him to 74% at his lowest on the prior run. On another double Gig attempt, we again took it past 75%. On the following fight, he was also at 76%. It would appear that SE made a certain threshold where bosses won't regenerate past on subsequent runs, even if the add on the previous run puts Regen on the boss and beyond 76%. So on a subsequent run, even if not killing the add on the first run, so long as you damage the boss beyond a certain point, he won't regen back to full on a future fight. This behavior already seems to be different than the V15 versions I remember, but may have been present in the V20s version.
Also, Purulent Ooze consistently landed on Gigelorum even without Rayke.
[+]
Just wondering has anyone tried hitting some hidden proc we aren't aware of? A certain Skillchain or MB on the boss or add based on their element or something?
I doubt SE's plans were for people just to power through ignoring/binding the adds (although I agree they may have intended on us using multiple mogphones).
The JP's complained about the difficulty of the content, and now the new content seems to limit groups/players than don't have a very diverse job selection, or don't have the correct empyrean weapon for AM3 white damage. Surely based on the existing complaints from the JP community they wouldn't limit the access like this. Or maybe they would /troll.
Even the idea of clearing these without a main healer class in the setup seems odd to me.
I doubt SE's plans were for people just to power through ignoring/binding the adds (although I agree they may have intended on us using multiple mogphones).
The JP's complained about the difficulty of the content, and now the new content seems to limit groups/players than don't have a very diverse job selection, or don't have the correct empyrean weapon for AM3 white damage. Surely based on the existing complaints from the JP community they wouldn't limit the access like this. Or maybe they would /troll.
Even the idea of clearing these without a main healer class in the setup seems odd to me.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Did a B-team Gigelorum chip run earlier where we took it to 74% then basically played footsies with the add for the remaining 12~ minutes (we did not kill the add).
What setup did you use for B team? I was thinking RUN/SCH/GEO/DNC/BLU/something (SMN? BST?) but I was wondering how effective that team would be at milking boss from 100% to 74% but if you are saying you had a B team get him to 74% in like 3 minutes, you could definitely get him to the 49% threshold to lock that in whilst still ignoring the first add.
Then heck, you could use Phone 2 real party to even kill the first add if you were so inclined and still have enough time to kill the boss from 50%. Or you could simply continue to ignore both adds.
I'm really glad you mentioned HP threshold lock, seems like that will come in handy.
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