|
|
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
 Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9914
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 12:26:56
You absolutely do not use jobs in "new and interesting ways", you go with a specific template for each clear and it's the exact same jobs over and over again with the DD changing. Just because you may have done the content with cookie cutter copy/pasted setups does not mean that other groups didn't use different jobs in new and interesting ways. There are multiple setups and strategies to clear most of the Gaol fights. I will grant you that these have become more strict with V20 and may become even more so with V25. But the V15 era allowed for a huge amount of variability in setups to clear fights. Before Gaol, when was the last time you brought THF as a tank/DD and not just TH for Ou/Dynamis? Or brought BST to anything at all that wasn't botting exp to RMT? Or used NIN to magic burst from the back line?
And you did none of those in Odyssea Gaol. Every clear setup revolved around the same jobs with the DD changing out. Only exceptions being the magic burst fights, in which cause you used the same old SCH + GEO + BLM + RUN combo. Because nobody can get utility or additional abilities from subjobs, we are forced into taking the jobs with the strongest main only abilities.
With subs lots of interesting combos become possible, especially since ML's expanded the utility of subs. Prime example is the healing slot, currently it has to be WHM because they are the only ones with a viable response to the constant AoE damage the T3'a and Bumba can do. If subs were an option then RDM and SCH become available as healers while trading off weaker barspells for various other benefits.
Anyhow gate keepers are going to want to continue gate keeping success.
By Afania 2022-12-06 12:28:53
Before Gaol, when was the last time you brought THF as a tank/DD and not just TH for Ou/Dynamis?
I've seen THF in melee Teles, eirnys, melee schah, vast majority of melee ambuscade VD in 2017, all melee-able omen bosses not just Ou. I've seen THF in 2016/17 melee WoC Zerg even, AND topped the parse chart with a stolen mighty strike. Fun time.
I am not sure why is THF even on the "not getting invite" list.....=.= Complain about BLM is one thing, but THF is in a much better position than most jobs tbh....
Or brought BST to anything at all that wasn't botting exp to RMT?
In 2015-2016 BST was the bandwagon endgame job. Although post 2016 only BST mains use it anymore. BST mains still brought them to event like dyna D though.
Many jobs never needed Odyssey restrictions IMO. It's just people not trying then demand artificial limitations as an easy solution.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1793
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2022-12-06 12:32:03
the only thing that feels repetitive to me in Gaol is how absolutely throttled GEO ends up with no SJ. And in some fights, you cannot live without them...as they just stand there and all the "nuance" is just getting your sets better.
Yes, we do approach the same fight the same way once our group finds a good setup that fits our strengths and our people. To me the variance is that you can't just do the same thing in every fight.
Also, I think if more people did triples, they'd enjoy the content more. I get such a rush when in one 2 hour span I'm able to play 4 different jobs, instead of the same job for a month straight of Dyna-D or Sortie.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 12:33:32
Absolutely nobody said anything about accomplishments being diminished or somehow others being on the same level if they clear the content easier than you initially did. That's literally a strawman pulled out of the air, I wouldn't even entertain that comment tbh.
What we are talking about is how the content currently is designed. They made it without the use of support jobs and a repeat job restriction, as well as various weapon resistances. Nobody here is defending it, just talking within the conditions of the content. I don't see any indication where SE would alter the requirements or layout of Gaol as far as jobs are concerned.
As I stated before, they probably see Sortie, Master Levels, and Odyssey as a triple set of events that goes hand in hand for player development, and expect players would bounce between the three of them to progressively get stronger, allowing you to clear more of each individual content easier. It's basically their new form of Content/Gear progression. Before you used to have to progress through the ranks with other dated content to level up. You no longer have to do that anymore.
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 12:40:21
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Also, I think if more people did triples, they'd enjoy the content more. I get such a rush when in one 2 hour span I'm able to play 4 different jobs, instead of the same job for a month straight of Dyna-D or Sortie.
They launched it with this in mind as a way to challenge players for sure. Of course the fights are simple if you do singles and use the same set of buffs and strat is slightly altered. When you have to fit a T4 + 2 T3s or 3 T2s or 3 T3s or even 3 T1s into a setup, it becomes extremely challenging if you are intending to clear the fights. And it's a lot of fun trying to squeeze every resource you can out of 6 players to beat 3 in a row.
Of course, amp cheese basically killed off all motivation for that in general, but the group I was in did really enjoy trying to beat 3 bosses in one visit, vs doing 3 separate fights or doing 1 real fight 2 afk 6% RP cheese.
[+]
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9914
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 12:50:50
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »Also, I think if more people did triples, they'd enjoy the content more. I get such a rush when in one 2 hour span I'm able to play 4 different jobs, instead of the same job for a month straight of Dyna-D or Sortie.
Yes the fun is from the single use job lockout with I love. You have to carefully pick which jobs you will use when so that each fight you have some level of support, then it's us challenging ourselves to see how low we can get it's HP with such a restricted setup. This is where I'd really like subs, since it would open up all sorts of alternate possibilities like weird tanks, healers and support crew or hybrid roles.
[+]
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9914
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 12:54:25
Absolutely nobody said anything about accomplishments being diminished or somehow others being on the same level if they clear the content easier than you initially did. That's literally a strawman pulled out of the air, I wouldn't even entertain that comment tbh.
People in this conversation said that allowing subs would make it too easy. That is the dead giveaway for content gatekeeping. Might as well of said "I walked 5 miles to school in snow uphill both ways". It's a form of "I did X to get Y, nobody should have to less then X", or "making it easier would cheaper all the hard work we did".
All the exact same argument, accomplishment gate keeping through exclusivity.
By IGDC 2022-12-06 12:58:16
Cool idea (imo): allow sub jobs but restrict it to using it once. E.g. - pld/blu can be used for a fight but no on else can sub blu on that fight or an additional fight but could main job it once still. Additionally: If you want to use sub jobs, you have to use all 3 tags when you enter for it regardless if you do 3 fights, 2 fights, or just one. My thinking on this is so that if you want to just do one fight (say Ongo v20) and clear it, but also feel like you need sub jobs to clear it, it would cost you 3 times the amount of mooglephoneII's to try it.
Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Asura.Hya 2022-12-06 13:03:17
And you did none of those in Odyssea Gaol. I did all of these and more in Odyssey Sheol Gaol. I'm sorry that unique setups did not work out for you, I really am. But that doesn't mean you can disparage the accomplishments of others by simply denying that they have been done. In no way am I trying to gatekeep success. In fact, I feel like your opinion that the content is only beatable by specific setups is more gatekeeping than my offering alternate strategies. I've made no arguments for or against subjobs in the content, so please don't bring me into that. I'm only trying to show that new and interesting ways of fighting and beating the NMs is possible
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 13:08:30
I've seen THF in melee Teles, eirnys, melee schah, vast majority of melee ambuscade VD in 2017, all melee-able omen bosses not just Ou. I've seen THF in 2016/17 melee WoC Zerg even, AND topped the parse chart with a stolen mighty strike. Fun time.
I am not sure why is THF even on the "not getting invite" list.....=.= Complain about BLM is one thing, but THF is in a much better position than most jobs tbh....
which of that is experience from pugs and which is experience from LS run by Lex, who just let several people to just go whatever, because the core of the group is so strong, that they can carry everyone? Also 2015-2017 was almost 6+ years ago.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 13:10:39
People in this conversation said that allowing subs would make it too easy. That is the dead giveaway for content gatekeeping. Might as well of said "I walked 5 miles to school in snow uphill both ways". It's a form of "I did X to get Y, nobody should have to less then X", or "making it easier would cheaper all the hard work we did".
I didn't interpret anything anybody said in this way. I assume you're talking about something Simon said.
Using your analogy about walking uphill in snow both ways, everyone does have to do the it the exact same way if the snow is still on the ground, because the limitations are imposed on everyone. If the snow happens to melt, then yeah, you wouldn't have to go through that.
The support job restrictions are in place for everybody, not just a set of players. IF SE chooses to remove that barrier later, so be it, it becomes easier for everyone. However, I have not seen any indication that SE would even do that, because they specifically designed this with an intent, from the sliding difficulty scale to the job variety. THEY want players to be challenged (or inhibited), it's not the players who have beat it WITH the limitation that want others to "suffer" the same way they did. That's an absolutely ridiculous claim to make.
Debating with other players about what is and isn't fun is subjective, and having an opinion about what part of the contents are annoying or frustrating is fine, but I don't believe anyone here truly cares how future players clear the fights. That's like when original bumba clear came out; the players who first cleared it using rayke/abusing SC damage did not care about people using Naegling strat later for their clear. There was no gatekeeping by anybody demanding that it be done the same way.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 13:16:43
People in this conversation said that allowing subs would make it too easy. That is the dead giveaway for content gatekeeping. Might as well of said "I walked 5 miles to school in snow uphill both ways". It's a form of "I did X to get Y, nobody should have to less then X", or "making it easier would cheaper all the hard work we did".
All the exact same argument, accomplishment gate keeping through exclusivity.
Except we have MLs, Empy+2/3 and best working strategy for every NM, so there is no more snow and you have a map with a shortcut, so it's already way easier and none is crying about that. It's not about being easier with sub jobs, but how the event works since the beginning. You would completely change its identity.
[+]
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 13:18:36
I assume you're talking about something Simon said.
He cant comment anything I have said. He blocked me long time ago. He couldn't stand how I was pointing holes in his posts :D
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1793
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2022-12-06 13:22:33
Except we have MLs, Empy+2/3 and best working strategy for every NM, so there is no more snow and you have a map with a shortcut, so it's already way easier and none is crying about that.
Yup. The road has already been plowed and salted, and these days you got that big bad battery-powered heated jacket called MLs and empy+2/3.
The gatekeeping happening is self-imposed by people unwilling to move off the meta for other content, gear their current jobs differently for success in there, or flat out refuse to level/gear new jobs.
BLMs that have been gathering dust for 6 years and think Lathi and Amalric+1 is still "just fine", or Naegling-only WARs honestly don't deserve success in this content. If I'm 'gatekeeping' by that statement, then I guess My Watch Begins.
[+]
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9914
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 13:22:41
but I don't believe anyone here truly cares how future players clear the fights.
And there you would be wrong. People care about their trophies and not wanting others to have the same trophy. Thankfully that population is small, unfortunately they also tend to be extremely loud. If you want to know who they are just read the "catch up mechanic" thread.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 13:23:30
Ok then it was either something Hya or myself said, but still I don't see anything about players who said anything about it being too easy and interpreted that to mean "you can't play with us until you prove yourself".
By Afania 2022-12-06 13:30:25
I've seen THF in melee Teles, eirnys, melee schah, vast majority of melee ambuscade VD in 2017, all melee-able omen bosses not just Ou. I've seen THF in 2016/17 melee WoC Zerg even, AND topped the parse chart with a stolen mighty strike. Fun time.
I am not sure why is THF even on the "not getting invite" list.....=.= Complain about BLM is one thing, but THF is in a much better position than most jobs tbh....
which of that is experience from pugs and which is experience from LS run by Lex, who just let several people to just go whatever, because the core of the group is so strong, that they can carry everyone? Also 2015-2017 was almost 6+ years ago.
I am confused, what do you try to imply here exactly? I meant the guy did ask "when did you see THF pre Odyssey(2020)" and dyna D (2018)doesn't count because of TH so of course it has to be 2017 or older content like aeonic/omen/ambu.....
Not sure where did that "carried" comment came from.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9914
By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-06 13:34:25
Ok then it was either something Hya or myself said, but still I don't see anything about players who said anything about it being too easy and interpreted that to mean "you can't play with us until you prove yourself".
You are misinterpreting things. It's not "you can't play with us".
It's "you can't have access to this gear/accomplishment/etc until you've walked 5 miles in the snow uphill both ways." The dead give away is objections to anything that would make content easier / more accessible. "They shouldn't do X because it would be brain dead easy".
As I said earlier, competitive players need a way to compete and those players will create one if one doesn't exist.
By Serjero 2022-12-06 14:10:08
It's "you can't have access to this gear/accomplishment/etc until you've walked 5 miles in the snow uphill both ways." The dead give away is objections to anything that would make content easier / more accessible. "They shouldn't do X because it would be brain dead easy".
This is an extremely bad-faith argument here. Nobody cares if they make the content easier (they already have) or wants people to be locked out of doing said content. People are way more vocal about crying about things that they can't have when they don't even try.
Most people are just arguing the contents do-able, that it's not prohibitively "hard" and that there's no real reason to make completely drastic changes to the content when it hasn't even finished completely being rolled out. In 6-18 months if V25s have blocked out even groups that were able to complete V20s then sure SE should (and probably would) do something.
That's not to say people wouldn't actively take advantage of easier fights or SJs if they were allowed. There's just no reasonable indication that this kind of change is something SE would implement. Besides it's not like you see people boasting they got all their RP without using a single Amplifier. Which amps were one of the most significant changes to Odyssey and lowered the bar for getting augments way more dramatically than anything else I've seen anyone propose. Like seriously would anyone here have actually came up with the decision so that you get full value from the amplifier for doing 6% to an NM when designing the Amplifier. But to some extent most people are okay with how that ended up working out.
The people that want to turn it into a competition can just take a dated SS with their clears so they can feel all warm and superior about being in the first .01% of the player base to have beaten the content while being all ML <20. But nobody actually cares if Timmy McCasual and the Laid Back Crew comes back after a 3 year hiatus and 9 months from now has R30 Nyame. Most of the end-game players wouldn't even know.
I don't know where you are seeing these ultra-toxic holier than thou end game players, but they ain't here chief.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2532
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-12-06 14:11:59
The dead give away is objections to anything that would make content easier / more accessible. "They shouldn't do X because it would be brain dead easy".
Even outside of objections from people who cleared the content "when it was hard" and want to keep it hard so they can show off their exclusive gear that shows what badasses they are...The game should be difficult. That's the point of a video game, to challenge you and make you feel accomplished for having overcome great obstacles. If you throw people a bone on less than 1 year old content which provides some of the strongest gear in the game...what the hell is the point?
If you don't want a challenge, don't want to struggle, and just want to chill and vibe with your friends on your favorite jobs then go do Omen or something, rather than insisting that they make the hardest content in the game easier for you (not referring to anyone specific here, the royal you). Accessibility is not the end-all-be-all for MMO content. FFXI has a good mix of relatively chill, easy content you can bring your *** around jobs to, and hardcore content where you need to focus and bring well-geared, coordinated players/jobs to. No need to mess with that and make everything a keyboard faceroll.
[+]
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 16:17:03
I am confused, what do you try to imply here exactly? I meant the guy did ask "when did you see THF pre Odyssey(2020)" and dyna D (2018)doesn't count because of TH so of course it has to be 2017 or older content like aeonic/omen/ambu.....
Not sure where did that "carried" comment came from.
True question should be "Where have you last seen anyone wanting THF specifically, because its a part of strategy? Not just allowing it to tag alone"
I have only seen it for SATA Erinys and for Teles, only because it can steal Invincible.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 16:24:59
Ok then it was either something Hya or myself said, but still I don't see anything about players who said anything about it being too easy and interpreted that to mean "you can't play with us until you prove yourself".
You are misinterpreting things. It's not "you can't play with us".
It's "you can't have access to this gear/accomplishment/etc until you've walked 5 miles in the snow uphill both ways." The dead give away is objections to anything that would make content easier / more accessible. "They shouldn't do X because it would be brain dead easy".
As I said earlier, competitive players need a way to compete and those players will create one if one doesn't exist.
Competitive players dont need to wish to gate anyone from anything. Competitive players will go make 3x V20 in single entrance or break speed kill records on V25 soon, or clear VD Ambuscade in 60 seconds including buffs like Xolla. You are projecting.
By Vaerix 2022-12-06 16:27:19
I am confused, what do you try to imply here exactly? I meant the guy did ask "when did you see THF pre Odyssey(2020)" and dyna D (2018)doesn't count because of TH so of course it has to be 2017 or older content like aeonic/omen/ambu.....
Not sure where did that "carried" comment came from.
True question should be "Where have you last seen anyone wanting THF specifically, because its a part of strategy? Not just allowing it to tag alone"
I have only seen it for SATA Erinys and for Teles, only because it can steal Invincible.
That one group that did tiger with double tp bonus ullr thf sounded pretty awesome ngl, lol.
By SimonSes 2022-12-06 16:41:47
I am confused, what do you try to imply here exactly? I meant the guy did ask "when did you see THF pre Odyssey(2020)" and dyna D (2018)doesn't count because of TH so of course it has to be 2017 or older content like aeonic/omen/ambu.....
Not sure where did that "carried" comment came from.
True question should be "Where have you last seen anyone wanting THF specifically, because its a part of strategy? Not just allowing it to tag alone"
I have only seen it for SATA Erinys and for Teles, only because it can steal Invincible.
That one group that did tiger with double tp bonus ullr thf sounded pretty awesome ngl, lol.
Yeah, but that's Odyssey. THF is useful in Odyssey exactly because of forced limits. It's also excellent example of creativity idea, that probably would never pop up otherwise.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-06 16:51:50
I made a BST Evisceration set for nothing (maybe i'll get to use it on V25s)
By Afania 2022-12-07 00:26:14
I am confused, what do you try to imply here exactly? I meant the guy did ask "when did you see THF pre Odyssey(2020)" and dyna D (2018)doesn't count because of TH so of course it has to be 2017 or older content like aeonic/omen/ambu.....
Not sure where did that "carried" comment came from.
True question should be "Where have you last seen anyone wanting THF specifically, because its a part of strategy? Not just allowing it to tag alone"
I have only seen it for SATA Erinys and for Teles, only because it can steal Invincible.
Why is requiring a job specifically for content even a good thing though? It sounds like that makes it harder to build a pt or join one if you plan to do that NM.
I never really care which job sits in the DD spot, as long as it parses high it's good enough to me. Let it be war MNK Sam drk DRG or THF or NIN.... who cares....
Now if the game tells me certain strategy NEED certain DD then it suck lol. It will drastically increase my time spent on building a pt and narrow down available pt for me to join unless I gear up every DD, which also takes a lot of time.
I am okay with a DD job's ability being a nice bonus for the strategy. But being forced to bring it...Not a fan personally.
Edit: also found the discussion of 2016 WoC Zerg that DD stealing hate was prevented with THF SATA, aka part of strategy.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/48251/reisenjima-t4s/11/#reply
We managed to push kill speed to 2 min 10 sec using war, run and thf as DD x4.
(About tank holding hate)
Nocki said: It's fairly easy to do so if there's no skillchain damage happening, and if the THFs (if there are any) TA the tank.
It's one old content out of many. Also seen THF in plenty of content after that. People will use their main job to event and just utilize it's ability as part of strategy. A forced limitation is never required.
By Afania 2022-12-07 01:31:13
THF is useful in Odyssey exactly because of forced limits. It's also excellent example of creativity idea, that probably would never pop up otherwise.
No...you don't need forced limit to encourage different builds, you only need special mechanics that favors certain build then people will build them. Examples here:
I had a requiescat set on cor in 2015 because some of the escha T2 has a shield.
I built a full STP set in escha era because it has multiple wings to spam.
I built an evasion set a couple months ago on cor because omen/ML mob/seg mob can be Eva tanked with an evasion set.
You see....all you need is a mechanic that favors certain build then players will use their creativity with builds. All of these are problem solving outside of Odyssey so why do you pretend they don't exist?
In fact if Odyssey doesn't lock SJ I'd probably build a club DD set on COR for Ngai. So limitation doesn't add anything here.
Saying that Odyssey is the reason behind creativity is drawing a conclusion before reason.
By warmech 2022-12-07 02:08:03
hey warmech it me! you tooling through this thread again? go ahead and skip the next 10 pages.
[+]
By SimonSes 2022-12-07 02:57:11
THF is useful in Odyssey exactly because of forced limits. It's also excellent example of creativity idea, that probably would never pop up otherwise.
No...you don't need forced limit to encourage different builds, you only need special mechanics that favors certain build then people will build them. Examples here:
I had a requiescat set on cor in 2015 because some of the escha T2 has a shield.
I built a full STP set in escha era because it has multiple wings to spam.
I built an evasion set a couple months ago on cor because omen/ML mob/seg mob can be Eva tanked with an evasion set.
You see....all you need is a mechanic that favors certain build then players will use their creativity with builds. All of these are problem solving outside of Odyssey so why do you pretend they don't exist?
In fact if Odyssey doesn't lock SJ I'd probably build a club DD set on COR for Ngai. So limitation doesn't add anything here.
Saying that Odyssey is the reason behind creativity is drawing a conclusion before reason.
We are just talking about 2 different things. Im talking about regular player being able to join pugs on jobs they want to play, instead of jobs they are forced to play because of meta. Ofc you can make THF works as DD, but 90% of PUGs leader will tell you "THF? Do you have some proper DD?" (despite the fact that THF with Naegling is actually top dps).
You are talking about playing with friends or with LS that will let you experiment and find a way for your job to work.
Your examples of being creative are for situations where your job is needed there anyway and you just try to improve your performance further. It's not something that will let your job to be desired (you are desired because of rolls). You are right that it would be more ideal to create benefits instead of limits, but like I said, that requires far more development and balancing. It's much easier to nerf everything but piercing by 90% to make piercing desired, than to buff piercing by 25%. The former is also very effective, while the former not really.
Hmmm...
Initial Speculations:
Looks like they took components of Walk of Echoes (setting), and Elemental Circles and brought it together.
They must of learned new ideas through the Lilith HTBF and how they can play with those elemental fetters to create unique battlefield environment and apply further stress with them..
Instead of Abyssea, this may be a Walk of Echoes 3.0? Anything iLvl 140+ .. We are ready!
Keep this thread clean, hoping to post critical details and discuss strategies.. Eventually I will create a Node on this with full details.. We can then update BG-Wiki with information that we gather..
Those of you who play on Nasomi.. Please don't post on here, you have a Fafnir to camp.. so get back to work.. This is isn't Bubbly Bernie version 3.0. He will be OG 1.0 forever on Nasomi.. ^_^
Sorry about the delay on updating this as I have been slammed with a lot of work since COVID-19 defense ramp up procedures at my hospital facility.
I have barely had time to update and barely any time to explore this content myself. I appreciate everyone's work so far. I will update this OP Thread with some resources and information that people have found across all servers including videos and screenshots..
Keeping this as a basic vital post highlight source so as new posts with vital information emerges I will just pin it here so it is all in one space and no need to jump around different pages..
To Begin.. The Basic Release Info from SE:
Some First Initial Basic Discoveries:
looks like you enter through Rabao
And you have 30 min to kill a bunch of trash mobs. Probably a boss at the end too.
More Initial Entry Discoveries Pinned:
About to enter Odyssey for the first time.
I'll report back. Setup is PUP, COR, BLU x2, SMN, RDM
Ok, it's looking like they made this content specifically to prevent BLUs from cleaving through this content.
Only main target took full damage. Surrounding targets took 90% reduced damage (main targeet 15k, all others 500 or less)
All mobs can be fully enfeebled (Sleep, Silence, Slow, Para) but standard rules apply for mob types (we saw Skeletons, couldn't Blind them)
I can very easily see a RUN or PLD tank running in and aggroing the group of mobs, with a BRD sleeping them all. 2 DDs kill one by one with proper support. SMN Bloodpacts were doing full damage on single mobs (same rules for BLU applied for SMN when we tried Thunderspark for lulz)
At the end, we found a group of mobs (bats) with a Fetter and a group of untargetable Yagudo. We cleared the bats, then killed the Fetter. Once the Fetter is killed, the Yagudo become targetable. For killing all of the Yagudo, you get 10 Izzat.
In total, we farmed 20 Izzat. We'll try using them tomorrow on boxes, maybe even spawn an NM. After we killed the fetter, a conflux spawned that gave us the opportunity to spawn a monster for 10 Izzat. We were low on time, so we just chose to exit.
Player with Trusts.. First Experience Testimonies:
Went in with trusts. Was able to 1 shot most things with leaden.
Yield: 31 scales and 3 scale boxes (from the chest).
Edit: Chests gave 11, 13 and 16.
More Vital Data Testimonies Discovered:
Random info:
-Killing trash gave izzat and lustreless scales
-Using 10 izzat to pop chest gave 2 scales and a box
-Killing fetter made untargetable yagudo killable, giving 10 izzat killing them all
-Popping NM with 10 izzat from ethereal junction spawned a red morbol that did blood weapon and dropped 2 boxes of scales
-Not sure what items you need to trade to junction to spawn monsters
-Was unable to use the thing at the start after killing fetter/yagudos/morbol, may have to kill all trash? I looked around and missed a pack, timed out before I could kill them all
-Moogle keeps track of trash killed, physis, and chests, and the power of your alter egos while in odyssey (Moogle Mastery)
More Testimonials and Discoveries..
Does anyone know what is needed to clear the RoE for Sheol A?
You need to run (can do on sneak/invi, only trasnparent mobs are true sight/sound) to last floor (A7) using confluxes. On last floor there is Otherworldly Vortex mentioned in RoE quest. You need to touch it (it lets you leave Odyssey too) to complete the quest. Credit for that info goes to Mischief from Bahamut. Here is a video of my first experience with Odyssey:
YouTube Video Placeholder Tried exploring, found more information
- I didn't realize there was a conflux on each floor to move up
- Each floor increases in mob level, capping at 131, and general nastiness of monster family (manticores, giants I remember on last floor)
- Translocators bring you down to previous levels, so the first floor one doesn't work until you find the higher level ones
- One character got stuck on a floor and couldn't move up, nor did they get the RoE objective upon someone else reaching the top
So for soloers, seems like it's best to stick to lower level floor to farm scales, more experienced parties can move up to desired difficulty for more scales. First time in would be best just getting the RoE objective and unlocking translocators.
Initial Video Detailing Climb to 7th floor for easy RoE Completion for Augment Unlock on Gear:
YouTube Video Placeholder
More Info about Moglophone KI's:
Anyways did a solo run this morning and got about 100 scales from just killing trash in first floor. Wondering what others are getting from parting up vs solo.
edit: Also can you hold one Moglophone KI on you, and then have the moogle hold one?
I was wondering this too. I picked up my KI last night and am holding it until later today and going to see if I can run two times in a row.
You can. I used my ki after few hours yesterday and when I checked moogle timer was at 15h, so it was going down while I had KI on me.
More Testimonial Higlights:
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Maybe Mischief will post about it, he figured it out on his mule. I'll try and post what i know, but it seems like we skip everything and just kill the fetters, mobs around the fetters, and sometimes the UNM near the fetters. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »and if u get to the final thing upstairs, personal chest for everyone. Not sure if someone said it already, but you CAN store a KI. So only need to farm every 2 days! I am confused on how people move up using sneak and invisible, in this run I explored everything, vortexes just said "you can't use this yet", or let me summon an NM but never move somewhere else, even after i killed the fetter, all the guards, the NM, opened one chest, and killed about 90% of all the mobs. If anybody can spot where in this video I should have been able to "move up" it would really help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9GhE5nO3I
thanks At the mandies in your run. Just hug left wall and you'll find it. It took me a while to find the first flux as well, but the rest were less "hidden". A video was posted a couple pages ago showing the route.
YouTube Video Placeholder Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »vortexes just said "you can't use this yet" Need to click Shimmering lights for access to some portals or not have aggro iirc. I may be wrong though Bahamut.Lexouritis said: » It rewarded me again with a box + 50k gil.
did u kill a fetter? Seems like 50k per Fetter and 1 box per fetter (per character). The big Box from RoE seems to be just 1 time thing. The smaller boxes seem to be fetter based?
Killing all 4 fetters netted us about ~70 scales per run per person after touching otherworldy vortex.
Edit: With RoE quest being completed in a run, was more like 110-130. So how many scales is it per upgrade? Didn’t see on Bg-wiki and don’t feel like shifting through posts on here. Should be just under 12 stacks to max. Based on scales only being worth 5rp instead of 10 :/ Clip to the top and nab the box, in and out, 5 minute adventure.
For realsies? SE let content like that out after the mass-ban clipping/duping-alex adventures get onto the live server? Thought they learned their lesson since the AMAN trove boxes can't be scouted via Hex IDs. The box he means is the one from completing the RoE once. You can walk to it in 6-7 mins without speed hacks anyway. The big deal about completing the RoE is you can start augmenting your gear at that point. Well if dude already finished a piece few days after update, there isnt much time gate here it seems.
Probably just the appetitizer was released (im on a work trip, cant "enjoy" the new content till weekend...)
He finished because he bought scales or have legion of mules. Regular player with 1 account will need realistically around 10-14 days for one piece farming daily. Traded 5 Emperor arthro shells to vortex (dunno how many it took from inventory, might have only taken 1 of the 5). Summoned Brachys, a crab that had a high ass counter rate and instantly killed me on my thf in one attack round. 500+ damage counters with no DT set. Likely not advisable to spawn mobs solo with trusts. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill featers and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 featers solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill fetters and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 fetters solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming.
I'm not sure if you need to just kill the fetters or the fetters + all the semi-invisible beastmen around the fetters.
It's possible to kill a fetter without aggro from the semi invisible beastmen that are sight aggro like Yagudo and Orcs. I'm assuming Quadav will sound aggro which makes them easier to gather in a group.
On the first day, when I duo'd with my cousin on RUN and me on COR with a THF4 set, we killed 1 fetter but stopped killing the semi-invisible beastmen because they were not dropping anything. Not all of the beastmen aggro'd. Only the Yagudo beastmen that were in sight of us or each other aggro'd us. Care needs to be taken by support in this case as support will get aggro'd if they rush in too early before the tank has claim on everything. These mobs hit very hard.
Definitely go in with at least th4 if solo farming just trash mobs.
Go in with a full, balanced party to maximize drops from fetters. The fetters are easy to kill. The beastmen hit hard and have a little more hp than common trash mobs. Helps to sleep them too as they can easily overwhelm even the toughest of tanks. Me and a group of peeps went in yesterday, to do some testing.
Killing a fetter + beastman group rewards 10 izzat, no special drops were seen, we did not have a thief, just a range using bounty shot.
Gonna test farm some nms tonight. i tried to spawn 1 today with my alt using unity items, turns out 1 is not enough. My second run of this is probably the best I can do.
Went in, killed all normal monsters, Feters and Beastmen, killed all of the Yaguado. I had 20 Izzat, spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob that died in a 4 step SC. This NM used Blood WEapon, the NM I tried yesterday used 100 fists and rek'd me.
I got 90 Izzat from Monsters and 22 from the 2 boxes that I got from NM and a chest I used them on. The only thing I didn't do on Floor 1 was spawn the Junction that said "Item can be used to pop something here" I had 3 Sarama Hides, 2 Thuban Things and neither worked, nor did a combination of them work.
All of my drops were done with TH2 from Gear. Few unanswered questions:
How is the augmentation to Trust power in Odyssey earned? I believe the requirement must be more than simply killing sets of trash mobs and making it to the otherworldly at the end.
Rewards upon reaching end were:
360k gil from a group that killed everything on first floor, 2 NM's popped.
100k gil for solo killing 2 groups (4 izzat) worth of scrubs and reaching end.
On another run I also got 100k gil for solo killing more scrubs (4 sets I think. Seems like the NMs from either spawn point will be one of the 119/122 unity NMs with similar mechanics, but not exactly the same as my morbol didn't go through 3 stages and only did blood weapon. May be a good ideal to either focus on repeatedly killing one to raise its kill count for the moogle or killing all of them at least once. Can't wait for Pandemonium Warden v3 in the future lol Yep. Surprised the hell out of us.
But as I said I was getting 100k for just clearing a couple of easy rooms and heading for the exit solo for the RoE.
Thinking about it, we did a bit more than the first floor full clear on that run, did a second fetter and agon mobs and popped another NM at least. spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob
What method did you use to spawn this nm?
So there seems to be 2 spawn methods, Unity Item (I think 5 minimum) or Izzat once you have killed a fetter.
In terms of the invisible mobs I don't know if its a coincidence or not but every time they have aggro'd they go after my GEO and no other character. Dunno if the bubble is causing something funky to happen.
It should be possible, to kill fetters on all floors + escape as low as 3 man, I cleared everything in my run and had about 3 minutes to spare but a lot of it was goofing about looking at chests etc. I'd say 4 man would be the most optimal though as you can't really AOE.
Only flaw would be is that the fetters on floors seem to be placed randomly so you could get screwed over on travel times but imagine if you wanted to eat some taco's and take that risk you could and do it no probs. My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.) Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »My findings thus far:
As stated multiples times already here, you can sneak/invisible to maneuver around the mobs here. However..
The invisible mobs appear true sight and/or sound, so you have to be cautious of them.
Appears that killing fetters gives personal loot. We all got a box.
You can solo for the RoE if you want following the guidlines above.
Competing RoE gives you 1 large box.
Clear is NOT party wide and each person must touch it individually for credit. (Also recieved 60k gil, we cleared 1 fetter/quadavs, and the mob family near it)
Didn't notice until after fetter and invisible mobs were dead, but one or the other gave 10 izzat.
Have tried a few different unity mats for unm 119/122 and traded 5 to pop a NM. NM that spawned was of the same mob family as items traded. Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull and kill regular mobs, until you see opportunity where nothing is close to fetter (there is always a moment when there is max 1 mob close to it at some point). Kill fetter fast (It's easy to kill. One good 2 step SC will kill it), then kill remaining mobs. I wouldn't try to aggro more than few mobs in general when solo or duoboxing, especially if you dont have Malignance set on COR. Something of note to add was that our rng and cor were doing 0 dmg to the fetter from distance and had to move much closer to do any damage. This may relate to how aoe does much reduced damage. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III.
Do you need to touch the flux on the top floor to get the gil? Or when does the gil actually get distributed to you? Yes, you have to leave personally to get it, and as always if other party members are fighting its locked out. My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.)
Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull/kill regular mobs with ranged attack. Run in to fetter with max 1 or 2 shadows aggro. Kill fetter > kill the rest. Just look out what you aggro. Aggroing BLM mob that stand close to middle will probably result in mass link eventually. Regular mobs dont link at all, but transparent mobs (before and after killing fetter) do. Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Not sure if it was mentioned, but looks like you can't pop the same NM twice from UNM mats in the same run. Popped once on first floor, and later on the 4th floor it gave a message saying we couldn't pop the same NM again. Sharing Shamgi's notes posted in the BST forum for relevant details:
Ok, just went into an Odyssey and discovered some things:
1. You can charm things in there. Things seemed to be fairly simple to charm, and Charm+ gear meant that my dhalmel stayed charmed 15+ minutes.
2.Charmed pets seem to be quite strong. Beyond the normal HP, they seemed to have fairly high damage, hitting other mobs in their own pack for 4-600 a swing, with crits as high as 900. My Dhalmel once used Berserk and those numbers got pretty big, same with their Sound Wave move. My record was a crit for 1500 or so. This is with NQ food and no other pet related buffs. I had one crawler end up at 74% when it killed another crawler in the pack, likely benefiting from all the DA and Haste.
3. Pets seem quite effective at killing the Halos. They hit hard already, but notably, they aggro nothing, not even the Beastmen around the Halos when doing so. The Halo produces a damaging AOE every couple of seconds that was hitting for 200 or so, but the pet, with it's 40k+ HP, doesn't care at all. Indeed, I left the pet to it's own devices and killed other packs with trusts while it worked the halo down itself, which actually seemed quite nice. When it died, the Orcs around it didn't aggro, so it was easy to pull them one by one, as they don't link either.
4. Mob spawns are random, which can hurt this strat, but from two runs a majority of the packs seem charmable, and many of them are often pretty powerful. Given the strat above, I feel like a monk style pet would be best here.
Overall, I'm super interested in trying this with a full group where you can use the pet to deal with adds while you work on a pack yourself and to safely kill Halos while you clear other things.
One issue was Sic, the recast was way worse than I remembered, and my lua isn't set up at all to deal with it. My best guess is to just set up my gearswap to always produce a physical damage set for Sic and then just use pets who focus physical damage with their TP moves. If it's a buff move, then no big deal, if it's physical then it's the right set. They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far). Do not link with the Fetter though, found this out by trying to range attack the fetter down, only to realize the fetter is immune to auto-range attacks. They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far).
Well its kinda expected. Orc, Yagudo and Goblins are all sight aggro/link. Quadavs are sound aggro/link and it's how they are in Odyssey too. They arent immune to ranged attacks you just need to be stood in the fetter to do damage.
So not immune to ranged attacks, but immune to any attacks from a range. XD As with all farming things it's more efficient to solo, if the kill speed is high, like 119 content. 6 solos have 6x more chances for boxes.
Luck's definitely a factor; and yeah I think solo probably is best.
I think a lot of it has to do with people finding each other, people needing to sneak/invis themselves, and having to stagger the flux (so it doesn't glitch out). Was a lot of wasted time there.
Was just curious if other groups were experiencing it as well. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. As group you are suppose to kill Fetter at floor 1,3,5 and 7 and run to otherworldy vortex at the end. You should get 4 PERSONAL box from otherworldy that way and I think one more personal box from killing beastman kings at floor 7 (they are around Fetter there).
So thats 5 personal chests
At least 40 Izzat to open chests
Probably at least 40 single scales from killing trash around fetters if you take at least TH4 with you.
Small boxes are on avg around 13 scales?
So probably around 70-80 scales at least per person, maybe more if you have time to farm more.
Very good geared solo player on specific job like COR, can get more with luck, but it might be other bonuses from killing fetters and NMs that we might dont know about. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them.
No, you need to kill Fetter AND beastman mobs around it to get credit for personal box at the end and 10 Izzat. I assume you killed only Fetters. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »THF can pick the locks/chests in odyssey, in case no one mentioned, or knows about it yet. However some times mimic will pop out. Unsure how hard they are, as it opens with deathtrap, and his mule has sparks gear (and it got one shot). Credit goes to mischief
"Either gave a 'however it has no effect' message and consumed the tool, opened the chest, or a mimic popped out" I made a quick map of Odyssey to make ease to hit the fluxes.
Etheral Junctions, Fetters and camps change apparently random.
EDIT: all maps have North heading the upper border.
Aegypius NM:
Bird
Popped using 5 Abyssdiver feathers
Uses Broadside Barrage and Damnation Dive
Uses Perfect Dodge at low HP and gains an Encumbrance aura that stays for the rest of the fight Carbuncle.Papesse said: »Beware of the Treant NM Ptelea and its dangerous Leafstorm AoE. Leafstorm is hybrid wind based. It can crit, miss, be absorbed by shadows and Elemental Sforzo. One For All, Gelus Valiance and Baraero substantially reduce damage. As far as getting these telepoints, mentioned on BGwiki's Odyssey page that you're supposed to be able to travel between to get to further levels of Odyssey, does anyone have any info on the requirements to gain access to these? Do you have to kill all of the fetters to go up a floor? Also, has anyone tried going in with a group of six and then disbanding and everyone using their own trusts to expediate the process of both killing enemies on every floor, taking care of all the fetters on a floor and then popping the nm's so that you might progress to these tele-points if those happened to be the requirements? I know some players might have found that they can farm higher amounts of the Lustreless Scales solo rather than teaming up but if you go in with 6 and then make you're own parties with trusts.. and there are multiple telepoints with up to say 15 sets of mobs and fetters then the possibility of having a high return still might be worth it. Another thing i noticed maybe means nothing but i saw some pixels floating out of nowhere that seemed like a mobs name. Maybe a glitch? Or the others maps? Or a random mob?
 I'm sure people regularly killing fluxes/beastmen already knew this, but AoEs that would have hit the untargettable/invisible beastmen will still generate enmity on them, so people should watch for that if they're sleepgaing or horde lullabying fodder. We spawned an NM in today's run.
Brachys: Crab NM (PLD/MNK)
Had a pretty decent (25-30%) Counter rate. Bubble Curtain's Shell effect reduced enspell (RDM with Crocea Mors) dmg to 0 unless it was dispelled. Used Invincible at 25%. Easily landed enfeebles (Slow, Para, Blind, Frazzle, Distract) Pretty easy fight overall.
It was spawned using 10 Izzat after we killed Fetter + Beastmen mobs surrounding it. Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »I have Moogle Mastery III, not sure what's doing it. Status report has:
Nostos killed: 306
Damysus: 2
Salmandra: 2
Cynara: 1
Chests: 3
Seems I ranked up when I killed an Agon Bruiser. The augment system is “tiered”. I’m working on my alts Emeici +1.
Ranks 1-5 give +2 damage. Ranks 6-10 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc. I assume ranks 11-15 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc, +2 crit rate.
That’s a neat way to do it, it incentivizes the more expensive ranks. Just had a bad solo experience... turns our not all popped NM's are soloable. Do not recommend popping the nm's for 10 izzat.
Got a cactus who would constantly triple attack and did 600 normal / 1200 crit per attack round. August got insta-KO then healer then myself within 7 seconds. YouTube Video Placeholder
|
|
