The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Arrebati with two Raaz beating up the back lines is gonna be a nightmare.
You can already clear all of V20 A3 besides Ongo (haven't tried, figured I'd drop the GEO if I did) pretty easily slotting in a tank to hold the adds. I find it less of a headache to do so. This can be expanded by using add for TP + TP denial on main boss if you want to melee Arebati if your RNG/COR aren't doing enough damage, and makes Mboze absolutely trivial since COR can assist with the damage.
2 adds just means worst case, the "popular" DPS only strategies can adjust by slotting in a tank for one of the adds, and having the second bounce around like they normally do. I suspect actual strategy would just be having RDM pull their hair out trying to keep both Bind/Gravity/Sleep'd
2 adds just means worst case, the "popular" DPS only strategies can adjust by slotting in a tank for one of the adds, and having the second bounce around like they normally do. I suspect actual strategy would just be having RDM pull their hair out trying to keep both Bind/Gravity/Sleep'd
Asura.Saevel said: »
We tried that before, you replace your second DD with a RUN, who does less damage, and all it does is buy you another 30s of fight time. Valiance will reduce Denounce to barely survivable numbers, but then the fetters exploding with random elements kill everyone once OFA wears. Ultimately it was better to replace the RUN with a real DD and just kill it before it kills us. Bumba is a really poorly designed fight.
It basically boils down to answering this multiple choice quiz.
Q: <Blank>
Answers
A: Multiple Simultaneous Weapon Skills
B: Multiple Critical Hits
C: Multi-step SC that maybe heal Bumbs for 99K
D: Multiple Magic Bursts off a SC that may heal Bumba for 99K
Fail to chose the correct answer to the hidden question and you fail the test.
It basically boils down to answering this multiple choice quiz.
Q: <Blank>
Answers
A: Multiple Simultaneous Weapon Skills
B: Multiple Critical Hits
C: Multi-step SC that maybe heal Bumbs for 99K
D: Multiple Magic Bursts off a SC that may heal Bumba for 99K
Fail to chose the correct answer to the hidden question and you fail the test.
The issue for me has always been the fact he more than likely will use Denounce right when it becomes available, then the fetters spawn and finish everyone off before we could possibly get procs C and D off.
Agreed on it being dumb and poorly designed, it's just too random. Of the 4 random variables, it seems like the aura/add/2hr are manageable, but the random proc combined with Denounce just means you hope you roll the dice 4 times and don't get something stupid, which you often do.
I have tried to control his TP feed somewhat before the spawn window and it seems to help a little? It's hard to tell if you just get lucky or the strat is actually working.
Masunasu said: »
You can already clear all of V20 A3 besides Ongo (haven't tried, figured I'd drop the GEO if I did) pretty easily slotting in a tank to hold the adds. I find it less of a headache to do so. This can be expanded by using add for TP + TP denial on main boss if you want to melee Arebati if your RNG/COR aren't doing enough damage, and makes Mboze absolutely trivial since COR can assist with the damage.
2 adds just means worst case, the "popular" DPS only strategies can adjust by slotting in a tank for one of the adds, and having the second bounce around like they normally do. I suspect actual strategy would just be having RDM pull their hair out trying to keep both Bind/Gravity/Sleep'd
2 adds just means worst case, the "popular" DPS only strategies can adjust by slotting in a tank for one of the adds, and having the second bounce around like they normally do. I suspect actual strategy would just be having RDM pull their hair out trying to keep both Bind/Gravity/Sleep'd
I've had some really clean runs having a PLD hold the add and help heal. The add is away from the group and does almost nothing to the PLD, while the added heals help
[+]
You can just do Barrier and Gallant on everyone and 3x Minne on BRD, SCH and GEO and Minne V and IV at RNG and COR. Adds wont be even able to outdamage Embrava/RegenV with that much defense. You will still have Fury, Chaos, Honor and Minuet V for damage on RNG and COR.
[+]
The adds are piss easy to handle, they are only dangerous to people who face roll keyboards and die to a stiff breeze because they idle in old augmented refresh gear.
Idle in appropriate defensive sets, not just "50% DT Bruh" but each of the main gear slots has high levels of Def/MBD/HP. I've been healing Ngai and "tanked" the add on WHM because my Idle and Cure sets were stacked with defense. Heals were about ~10% weaker but I had way more survivability.
Idle in appropriate defensive sets, not just "50% DT Bruh" but each of the main gear slots has high levels of Def/MBD/HP. I've been healing Ngai and "tanked" the add on WHM because my Idle and Cure sets were stacked with defense. Heals were about ~10% weaker but I had way more survivability.
[+]
I think it's a great idea to have a Defensive cure set for when you have hate and are taking hits that rivals your primary Kaykaus max potency set. I made versions of this kind of set across my mages for other events, but at least WHM SCH RDM should absolutely have one for Odyssey Gaol. Earlier on with Xevioso20, my dancer constantly would die in between waltzes because is was switching to max potency and getting wrecked. Once I switched to a less potent but now defensive waltz build, I never died in between heals. That's an acceptable trade off in most cases, since you're useless if you die.
The problem is, most players don't even have a defensive cure set, and most if not all guides don't mention one or include the gear set at all. I think at this point in the game, given how hard everything hits, it should be standard to include a defensive cure set for any job that heals.
The problem is, most players don't even have a defensive cure set, and most if not all guides don't mention one or include the gear set at all. I think at this point in the game, given how hard everything hits, it should be standard to include a defensive cure set for any job that heals.
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
The problem is, most players don't even have a defensive cure set, and most if not all guides don't mention one or include the gear set at all. I think at this point in the game, given how hard everything hits, it should be standard to include a defensive cure set for any job that heals.
At this point "50% DT" is table stakes for all these fights, it's about how much DEF/HP/MBD/MEVA you can squeeze into them. SE was giving us a clue of things to come when they released those Odyssea Gaol sets. Game meta isn't really about max "X/Y/Z" ability, but more about how to simply outlast the monsters HP. Which is what pisses me off about fights like Ongo, Mboze and Bumba, they cheat to force you to play to a meta the game doesn't really support.
[+]
I mean with Empy +2/3 DT sets of all kinds are just extremely easy to make, especially on mages.
Whm can just wear full empy+2/3 with d ring and PDT cape for example. Add raetic rod+1 with Jse neck or daybreak and you are capped PDT, massive MEVA, capped cure potency I, convert heal to mp and augmented afflatus solace. Add whatever accessories you like and there you go. With Genmei shield you don't even need cape or d ring tbh, so you can just switch to something else.
Whm can just wear full empy+2/3 with d ring and PDT cape for example. Add raetic rod+1 with Jse neck or daybreak and you are capped PDT, massive MEVA, capped cure potency I, convert heal to mp and augmented afflatus solace. Add whatever accessories you like and there you go. With Genmei shield you don't even need cape or d ring tbh, so you can just switch to something else.
[+]
Asura.Saevel said: »
At this point "50% DT" is table stakes for all these fights, it's about how much DEF/HP/MBD/MEVA you can squeeze into them.
This still isn't well understood by the player base or well communicated. I can't say much though, I learned the hard way months ago when I was tanking Kalunga and got rekt by fetters in my DT-capped SIRD set while the COR (someone in this thread) was holding them fine and taking a lot less damage than I was. Prior to that, I had never heard or read anything about figuring out magic damage mitigation outside of dt.
It's hard enough to convince some people they need to be in DT or hybrid sets, but convincing them to look at stats like meva/mdb/etc and convince them it matters is an uphill battle.
[+]
It for sure is extremely easy, and still many people don't utilize them or mention them much. Seems very obvious to you and me, apparently is not for many players.
Go look at any of the job guides for mage jobs, there are hardly any "Defensive Cure" builds. You see "starter", "mid", "top tier" potency, nothing with an alternative focus on defense. Most people who are looking to gear a job will likely just copy/paste someone else's lua or sets straight from a guide. It would be a good idea if many set guides started including that variant to help newer players. Odyssey is the main place you absolutely need to be in high defensive set at all times, or you die.
Anyways, back to Odyssey discussion, don't want to derail.
Go look at any of the job guides for mage jobs, there are hardly any "Defensive Cure" builds. You see "starter", "mid", "top tier" potency, nothing with an alternative focus on defense. Most people who are looking to gear a job will likely just copy/paste someone else's lua or sets straight from a guide. It would be a good idea if many set guides started including that variant to help newer players. Odyssey is the main place you absolutely need to be in high defensive set at all times, or you die.
Anyways, back to Odyssey discussion, don't want to derail.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It for sure is extremely easy, and still many people don't utilize them or mention them much. Seems very obvious to you and me, apparently is not for many players.
Go look at any of the job guides for mage jobs, there are hardly any "Defensive Cure" builds. You see "starter", "mid", "top tier" potency, nothing with an alternative focus on defense. Most people who are looking to gear a job will likely just copy/paste someone else's lua or sets straight from a guide. It would be a good idea if many set guides started including that variant to help newer players. Odyssey is the main place you absolutely need to be in high defensive set at all times, or you die.
Anyways, back to Odyssey discussion, don't want to derail.
Go look at any of the job guides for mage jobs, there are hardly any "Defensive Cure" builds. You see "starter", "mid", "top tier" potency, nothing with an alternative focus on defense. Most people who are looking to gear a job will likely just copy/paste someone else's lua or sets straight from a guide. It would be a good idea if many set guides started including that variant to help newer players. Odyssey is the main place you absolutely need to be in high defensive set at all times, or you die.
Anyways, back to Odyssey discussion, don't want to derail.
This is not derail at all. DT cure sets is part of Odyssey strategy and potentially one of the most important differences between people who will be and won't be able to clear V25.
[+]
I meant that more for me derailing, as I started talking about Job Guides and the lack of DT cure sets, and not specifically Odyssey.
Has it been confirmed that the next Vengeance level upgrade has two adds, or is that just current speculation? Wasn't sure if it was mentioned in a previous dev discussion or something.
I would argue that content specific defensive sets are very much on topic, especially since they will definitely be needed for V25 clears.
Bahamut.Jedigamer said: »
Has it been confirmed that the next Vengeance level upgrade has two adds, or is that just current speculation? Wasn't sure if it was mentioned in a previous dev discussion or something.
It's based on info from datamining. There are two adds in dats.
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Jedigamer said: »
Has it been confirmed that the next Vengeance level upgrade has two adds, or is that just current speculation? Wasn't sure if it was mentioned in a previous dev discussion or something.
It's based on info from datamining. There are two adds in dats.
AND Speculation. Because the reality is V25 could have 2 adds or a new reskinned more powerful add, it doesn't necessarily mean we get both but that's possible too. But thankfully we don't have to speculate much longer.
Edit: Ways a single more powerful add could complicate the fight.
Targeting based on different values(targets 2nd on enmity or goes for lowest hp or targets casters like whm's and deals damage to MP first then hp)
En-hit like the umbril add someone said had ensilence. Lots of more gross debuffs that could be more powerful as an en-hit.
Immunity to Debuffs.
0 enmity table whatsoever so you can't tank it with an off tank.
Add giving a second aura effect to the fight (you thought mab down and macc down by themselves were bad, just wait there's more!)
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Jedigamer said: »
Has it been confirmed that the next Vengeance level upgrade has two adds, or is that just current speculation? Wasn't sure if it was mentioned in a previous dev discussion or something.
It's based on info from datamining. There are two adds in dats.
We can possibly take with a grain of salt (probably not) since data mine for the stats of gear up to R30 does not show extra stats. (3rd/4th augment slot)
That being said, it's very very likely based on the datmine.
I'm so glad they are adding more vengeance levels, that's really what Odyssey was missing. When I think of Odyssey I think if only it had more grind and more difficulty.
Its definitely the lack of more vengeance levels that was keeping half my ls from even thinking about doing Odyssey and not the job/subjob limitations in very specialized fights forcing people to have multiple jobs to clear all, the segment costs to help others clear, the many clears needed if you don't have someone to help you or the endless extremely boring grind to augment once you have clears.
And to the naysayers out there if we didn't get more grind from Oddy what else is there to do, I'm sure everyone already finished ML50 from last month and it's not like people are estimating that it will take years on average to get the +2 earring you want from Sortie farming every day.
Its definitely the lack of more vengeance levels that was keeping half my ls from even thinking about doing Odyssey and not the job/subjob limitations in very specialized fights forcing people to have multiple jobs to clear all, the segment costs to help others clear, the many clears needed if you don't have someone to help you or the endless extremely boring grind to augment once you have clears.
And to the naysayers out there if we didn't get more grind from Oddy what else is there to do, I'm sure everyone already finished ML50 from last month and it's not like people are estimating that it will take years on average to get the +2 earring you want from Sortie farming every day.
[+]
1. Don't try and pretend that the majority of people not willing to actively challenge themselves with Odyssey are "grinding" MLs.
2. I've never understood the complaint about "needing" to level more jobs in a game designed to allow you from day one to level and gear up as many jobs as you are capable of. But no, they'd rather grind gil, then pay botters to ML50 that Samurai and that's it and then whine their Fudo-onry SAM isn't wanted in content.
The game gave us 22 jobs, plenty of room to gear them all (now), and expedited leveling to where one can get a 3rd or 4th job to competent levels in a couple weeks- a far cry from the 75exp grind without Trusts, without RoV gifts, and without EXP rings/campaigns.
....you wanna grind something that isn't Odyssey? Grind up NEW jobs the people around you carrying your DPS-only mindset through content for years will celebrate.
2. I've never understood the complaint about "needing" to level more jobs in a game designed to allow you from day one to level and gear up as many jobs as you are capable of. But no, they'd rather grind gil, then pay botters to ML50 that Samurai and that's it and then whine their Fudo-onry SAM isn't wanted in content.
The game gave us 22 jobs, plenty of room to gear them all (now), and expedited leveling to where one can get a 3rd or 4th job to competent levels in a couple weeks- a far cry from the 75exp grind without Trusts, without RoV gifts, and without EXP rings/campaigns.
....you wanna grind something that isn't Odyssey? Grind up NEW jobs the people around you carrying your DPS-only mindset through content for years will celebrate.
[+]
Vaerix said: »
AND Speculation. Because the reality is V25 could have 2 adds or a new reskinned more powerful add, it doesn't necessarily mean we get both but that's possible too. But thankfully we don't have to speculate much longer.
Edit: Ways a single more powerful add could complicate the fight.
Targeting based on different values(targets 2nd on enmity or goes for lowest hp or targets casters like whm's and deals damage to MP first then hp)
En-hit like the umbril add someone said had ensilence. Lots of more gross debuffs that could be more powerful as an en-hit.
Immunity to Debuffs.
0 enmity table whatsoever so you can't tank it with an off tank.
Add giving a second aura effect to the fight (you thought mab down and macc down by themselves were bad, just wait there's more!)
Edit: Ways a single more powerful add could complicate the fight.
Targeting based on different values(targets 2nd on enmity or goes for lowest hp or targets casters like whm's and deals damage to MP first then hp)
En-hit like the umbril add someone said had ensilence. Lots of more gross debuffs that could be more powerful as an en-hit.
Immunity to Debuffs.
0 enmity table whatsoever so you can't tank it with an off tank.
Add giving a second aura effect to the fight (you thought mab down and macc down by themselves were bad, just wait there's more!)
They could also add a DT effect to the main boss if the add is alive, forcing you to kill it to win.
I also wondered if they would add a second aura, seems like something they'd do.
If they wanted to stop mercing RP, they could force the add to spawn upon pull, also.
Asura.Iamaman said: »
Vaerix said: »
AND Speculation. Because the reality is V25 could have 2 adds or a new reskinned more powerful add, it doesn't necessarily mean we get both but that's possible too. But thankfully we don't have to speculate much longer.
Edit: Ways a single more powerful add could complicate the fight.
Targeting based on different values(targets 2nd on enmity or goes for lowest hp or targets casters like whm's and deals damage to MP first then hp)
En-hit like the umbril add someone said had ensilence. Lots of more gross debuffs that could be more powerful as an en-hit.
Immunity to Debuffs.
0 enmity table whatsoever so you can't tank it with an off tank.
Add giving a second aura effect to the fight (you thought mab down and macc down by themselves were bad, just wait there's more!)
Edit: Ways a single more powerful add could complicate the fight.
Targeting based on different values(targets 2nd on enmity or goes for lowest hp or targets casters like whm's and deals damage to MP first then hp)
En-hit like the umbril add someone said had ensilence. Lots of more gross debuffs that could be more powerful as an en-hit.
Immunity to Debuffs.
0 enmity table whatsoever so you can't tank it with an off tank.
Add giving a second aura effect to the fight (you thought mab down and macc down by themselves were bad, just wait there's more!)
They could also add a DT effect to the main boss if the add is alive, forcing you to kill it to win.
I also wondered if they would add a second aura, seems like something they'd do.
If they wanted to stop mercing RP, they could force the add to spawn upon pull, also.
Asura.Iamaman said: »
They could also add a DT effect to the main boss if the add is alive, forcing you to kill it to win.
[+]
The adds have almost as much HP as the boss. If we were ever required to kill them we'd never get a clear.
[+]
Asura.Melliny said: »
The adds have almost as much HP as the boss. If we were ever required to kill them we'd never get a clear.
Assuming they don't respawn it could be something that requires all 3 fights to pull it off. Kill one add in the first fight. Then 2nd in the second fight and kill boss in third. All at different jobs. It would be very Odyssey style. I hope it's not that tho.
[+]
Didn't somebody test it and the add just respawned when they went back in upon aggro of boss?
Can't remember it's been forever since people just decided to ignore the add or BRD tank it.
Can't remember it's been forever since people just decided to ignore the add or BRD tank it.
The other thing that is a factor on defensive sets is how well you organize and if you're any good at making luas. Even if you had defensive healing or ws sets in guides, a lot of the player base wouldn't really know how to use them effectively.
My cure sets are based on my weapons and what my engaged is set as. I think i have 9 different cure sets for my RDM ranging from full potency with healing skill to highest defense sets while still capping regular cure potency. It seems excessive, but I'm basically always the last to die in almost any fight.
It took me until this year to convince the people I play with to make phalanx recieved sets with a /p macro asking for it. Being dumb tough just isn't the sort of thing people think to do until they see how well other people can make it work. And then there are all the DDs who will never turn down a good helping for floor pizza no matter what you say to them.
My cure sets are based on my weapons and what my engaged is set as. I think i have 9 different cure sets for my RDM ranging from full potency with healing skill to highest defense sets while still capping regular cure potency. It seems excessive, but I'm basically always the last to die in almost any fight.
It took me until this year to convince the people I play with to make phalanx recieved sets with a /p macro asking for it. Being dumb tough just isn't the sort of thing people think to do until they see how well other people can make it work. And then there are all the DDs who will never turn down a good helping for floor pizza no matter what you say to them.
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
The other thing that is a factor on defensive sets is how well you organize and if you're any good at making luas. Even if you had defensive healing or ws sets in guides, a lot of the player base wouldn't really know how to use them effectively.
You don't have to use lua at all for it, it's the same thing as making any other off-role set like a PDL WS set, a magic evasion set, a flurry-received snapshot or high snapshot (no flurry) set, a DW set, high acc, high haste/partial haste set, high attack/trust attack/no attack etc etc. It's not complicated in the least bit, it's just ignored because nobody puts it in a guide or a lua as important. You have a set for everything else, no spots for a high defensive whatever set. If you don't tell people it's important, strangely, they can't fathom that taking 1500 normal attacks from a Raaz is not a good thing, and don't even think about doing it.
Making a second set is easy, just copy paste, edit then comment it out if you don't need it.
[+]
So currently, the flat bonus for using an amp on a V20 fight is 1408 rp. The theoretical flat bonus for V25 is 2357 rp. Amps cost 1500 segments. Therefore, amping every fight would get you a bonus 857 segments back after amp cost if converting rp.
In other words, amp every v25 fight cause the amp is more than free, you actually get bonus segments back from using it.
In other words, amp every v25 fight cause the amp is more than free, you actually get bonus segments back from using it.
[+]
Trying to wrap up V20s just in time for V25, maybe a dumb question but is there any "trick" to dealing with Denouement/Apotheosis on Xevioso?
Defensively running with Scherzo, Minne, Carol, Baraera. DD using a mixture of Malignance and Nyame for extra HP/Defense, WAR using Sakpata.
It's generally manageable but seems to one shot at least one person every fight by doing just flat out more than they have in HP, 2.5-3K depending on who it is. Trying to stay on top of removing Magic Def Down and reapplying Scherzo if it gets dispelled though it's possible these are the actual culprit when it happens. Just not sure if I'm missing something else obvious since seems people consider this one of the easier ones. Can sometimes stabilize but usually run into hate problems once one DD goes down with all the resets.
Having similar problems on Ngai and Puncture. If both are just a case of maybe not being fast enough on the erases, I'll try to keep a better eye out on my debuffs.
Defensively running with Scherzo, Minne, Carol, Baraera. DD using a mixture of Malignance and Nyame for extra HP/Defense, WAR using Sakpata.
It's generally manageable but seems to one shot at least one person every fight by doing just flat out more than they have in HP, 2.5-3K depending on who it is. Trying to stay on top of removing Magic Def Down and reapplying Scherzo if it gets dispelled though it's possible these are the actual culprit when it happens. Just not sure if I'm missing something else obvious since seems people consider this one of the easier ones. Can sometimes stabilize but usually run into hate problems once one DD goes down with all the resets.
Having similar problems on Ngai and Puncture. If both are just a case of maybe not being fast enough on the erases, I'll try to keep a better eye out on my debuffs.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.