Mewing is also nerfed against Odyssey NMs and they always TP at 1000 even at above 25%; couple that with Aura giving Mboze stronger Regain and the DEX -200+ effect making it harder to take aura down, you can get screwed over very easily even doing everything right. If everyone is sitting inside fetter range during Aura so that they can eat Timbeeer, it increases the changes of an unlucky fetter barrage + TP move killing someone.
It's also a fight where if someone dies once, you've likely lost, because Timbeeer becomes much harder to live through with even a single person down (made even worse if it's the GEO, the COR, or the tank).
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
As far as I'm concerned Mboze can go die in a fire, now that I'm done with it I'm not touching that thing again on V15 until they nerf it or a new efficient and reliable strategy is found.
What's so horrible about Mboze? Subtle blow and mewing or zerg with Rampart should make it rather easy no? Are people just try to zerg it without Rampart and Subtle Blow or something?
With subtle blow build and mewing, even if Tiiimbeeer happens, you stop damage and cure up, then you start damage again. There is 0% chances to get killed with Tiiimbeeer spam if you aren't feeding tp. Also if you use BST, SMN and GEO Tiiimbeeer damage is not even a big deal (it's like 75% max HP with 9 targets I think). You was just rushing it and that's your problem.
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
As far as I'm concerned Mboze can go die in a fire, now that I'm done with it I'm not touching that thing again on V15 until they nerf it or a new efficient and reliable strategy is found.
What's so horrible about Mboze? Subtle blow and mewing or zerg with Rampart should make it rather easy no? Are people just try to zerg it without Rampart and Subtle Blow or something?
With subtle blow build and mewing, even if Tiiimbeeer happens, you stop damage and cure up, then you start damage again. There is 0% chances to get killed with Tiiimbeeer spam if you aren't feeding tp. Also if you use BST, SMN and GEO Tiiimbeeer damage is not even a big deal (it's like 75% max HP with 9 targets I think). You was just rushing it and that's your problem.
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
As far as I'm concerned Mboze can go die in a fire, now that I'm done with it I'm not touching that thing again on V15 until they nerf it or a new efficient and reliable strategy is found.
What's so horrible about Mboze? Subtle blow and mewing or zerg with Rampart should make it rather easy no? Are people just try to zerg it without Rampart and Subtle Blow or something?
With subtle blow build and mewing, even if Tiiimbeeer happens, you stop damage and cure up, then you start damage again. There is 0% chances to get killed with Tiiimbeeer spam if you aren't feeding tp. Also if you use BST, SMN and GEO Tiiimbeeer damage is not even a big deal (it's like 75% max HP with 9 targets I think). You was just rushing it and that's your problem.
[+]
The regain on Mboze gets pretty high, at least under 25%.
Several things can go wrong. Let's not forget about the random lagspikes we still seldom get, at least with my group. One at a bad time (like during/after a Tiiimbeeer( and you're toast.
Then the random Aura can create issues if it's not one you want.
Last but not least, if he absorbs important buffs from the tank, you have no way to take them off. Dispelga didn't work. Finale gets resisted even with Altana+1 + SV up + SV Threnody II on him (lands fine with NiTro, but you don't exactely have NiTro up for the whole fight eh).
I noticed Subtle Blow builds work okaysh up to, I dunno, 50%? Then things get worse and definitely go ***under 25%.
Tl;dr there's really little space for errors on Mboze. Conversely there's a lot of random, dangerous things beyond the players' control that can lead to errors, making the previous point even more relevant.
Took us a large amount of attempts to finally kill it on V15. Most failures were caused by very small errors on our side. Some were caused by random ***beyond our control.
Either way it felt very stressing, frustrating and I don't really want to see that guy ever again until something changes.
Edit:
Some (many?) of Mboze's moves work differently from other Yggdreant moves. Like Canopierce is somehow affected by MDB I think. Noticed the average damage we were being hit for was higher on runs where we got the related debuff aura from him.
Several things can go wrong. Let's not forget about the random lagspikes we still seldom get, at least with my group. One at a bad time (like during/after a Tiiimbeeer( and you're toast.
Then the random Aura can create issues if it's not one you want.
Last but not least, if he absorbs important buffs from the tank, you have no way to take them off. Dispelga didn't work. Finale gets resisted even with Altana+1 + SV up + SV Threnody II on him (lands fine with NiTro, but you don't exactely have NiTro up for the whole fight eh).
I noticed Subtle Blow builds work okaysh up to, I dunno, 50%? Then things get worse and definitely go ***under 25%.
Tl;dr there's really little space for errors on Mboze. Conversely there's a lot of random, dangerous things beyond the players' control that can lead to errors, making the previous point even more relevant.
Took us a large amount of attempts to finally kill it on V15. Most failures were caused by very small errors on our side. Some were caused by random ***beyond our control.
Either way it felt very stressing, frustrating and I don't really want to see that guy ever again until something changes.
Edit:
Some (many?) of Mboze's moves work differently from other Yggdreant moves. Like Canopierce is somehow affected by MDB I think. Noticed the average damage we were being hit for was higher on runs where we got the related debuff aura from him.
[+]
Asura.Sechs said: »
The regain on Mboze gets pretty high, at least under 25%.
Several things can go wrong. Let's not forget about the random lagspikes we still seldom get, at least with my group. One at a bad time (like during/after a Tiiimbeeer( and you're toast.
Then the random Aura can create issues if it's not one you want.
I noticed Subtle Blow builds work okaysh up to, I dunno, 50%? Then things get worse and definitely go ***under 25%.
Tl;dr there's really little space for errors on Mboze. Conversely there's a lot of random, dangerous things beyond the players' control that can lead to errors, making the previous point even more relevant.
Took us a large amount of attempts to finally kill it on V15. Most failures were caused by very small errors on our side. Some were caused by random ***beyond our control.
Either way it felt very stressing, frustrating and I don't really want to see that guy ever again until something changes.
Edit:
Some (many?) of Mboze's moves work differently from other Yggdreant moves. Like Canopierce is somehow affected by MDB I think. Noticed the average damage we were being hit for was higher on runs where we got the related debuff aura from him.
Several things can go wrong. Let's not forget about the random lagspikes we still seldom get, at least with my group. One at a bad time (like during/after a Tiiimbeeer( and you're toast.
Then the random Aura can create issues if it's not one you want.
I noticed Subtle Blow builds work okaysh up to, I dunno, 50%? Then things get worse and definitely go ***under 25%.
Tl;dr there's really little space for errors on Mboze. Conversely there's a lot of random, dangerous things beyond the players' control that can lead to errors, making the previous point even more relevant.
Took us a large amount of attempts to finally kill it on V15. Most failures were caused by very small errors on our side. Some were caused by random ***beyond our control.
Either way it felt very stressing, frustrating and I don't really want to see that guy ever again until something changes.
Edit:
Some (many?) of Mboze's moves work differently from other Yggdreant moves. Like Canopierce is somehow affected by MDB I think. Noticed the average damage we were being hit for was higher on runs where we got the related debuff aura from him.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
If you are using Fusenaikyo, your DPS is pretty shite compared to using Masamune.
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Seen it do it even with mewing and a sam in full subtle blow set.
Im not gonna lie, I can only theorycraft here based on videos I watched, because I dont have static for Mboze, so you have advantage of real approach over me, but..
.. I think using SAM for this is just not a good idea. Why you use SAM? It offers nothing good for this fight beside slashing damage. Like you admitted with Fusenaikyo damage drops by a lot too, so not even damage is a good argument. You use SAM just because you dont have anything else?
BST should be much better with killer effects/instinct/empy+1 body. BST can also dump hate on pet in case of hate reset on tank. BST with Auspice can also reach 70%SB with Doli and pretty much without any gear sacrifices. BST also adds +1 target for Tiiimbeeer.
We tried with PLD, WHM, GEO, BRD, COR and DRK.
Nobody but the DRK was engaging. COR was there just to buff, random deal, wild card, random deal again (for Ramparts under 50%).
Damage was greatly reduced by the fact that DRK was playin it safe and using super defensive sets in both TP and WS.
We were counting to use Soul Enslavement under 25%. After several failed attempts we changed our approach and swapped the DRK with SAM.
We had poseidon rings (2, on COR and BRD) ready to use if we ran out of Ramparts and he wasn't dead yet. Used them on many failed attempts but we didn't need them on the one where we won.
I don't really remember the buffs, we changed them so many times testing various things, even Earth Carol II and I to reduce the damage from Canopierce, but it wasn't reliable.
We started having the PLD manually cancel Protect on himself because sometimes Mboze was absorbing it and there was no way to remove it until you had NiTro up again (under 50% after Wild Card, basically).
Edit:
We used the Entrust trick but it hardly makes a difference. Not just because entrusted bubbles are weak, but also because by the time we get to the dangerous part (under 50%) entrusted bubbles were over or close to be over.
All the other T3s are a real joke on V15 compared to Mboze. We never wiped to any of them and got them on first try.
Nobody but the DRK was engaging. COR was there just to buff, random deal, wild card, random deal again (for Ramparts under 50%).
Damage was greatly reduced by the fact that DRK was playin it safe and using super defensive sets in both TP and WS.
We were counting to use Soul Enslavement under 25%. After several failed attempts we changed our approach and swapped the DRK with SAM.
We had poseidon rings (2, on COR and BRD) ready to use if we ran out of Ramparts and he wasn't dead yet. Used them on many failed attempts but we didn't need them on the one where we won.
I don't really remember the buffs, we changed them so many times testing various things, even Earth Carol II and I to reduce the damage from Canopierce, but it wasn't reliable.
We started having the PLD manually cancel Protect on himself because sometimes Mboze was absorbing it and there was no way to remove it until you had NiTro up again (under 50% after Wild Card, basically).
Edit:
We used the Entrust trick but it hardly makes a difference. Not just because entrusted bubbles are weak, but also because by the time we get to the dangerous part (under 50%) entrusted bubbles were over or close to be over.
All the other T3s are a real joke on V15 compared to Mboze. We never wiped to any of them and got them on first try.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Dispelga didn't work. Finale gets resisted even with Altana+1 + SV up + SV Threnody II on him (lands fine with NiTro, but you don't exactely have NiTro up for the whole fight eh).
Atomos?
From my discussions with the people I played with, SAM was our choice because:
1. SAM can cap haste fulltime with Hasso, a benefit that other 2H DD don't have. I think the next best one would be DRK with last resort, but even that has about 50 seconds or so of downtime (not sure on this, I am not a DRK).
2. Ease of 4 step. I don't know a lot about BST, so I can't vouch for/against its ability to spontaneously make a SC when you need to proc it after uproot.
3. Kenda+1 makes it easy for SAM to have Subtle Blow without actually trying to have Subtle Blow. With regain, the benefits here are not as apparent, but it was something we took into consideration when we came up with our strat.
1. SAM can cap haste fulltime with Hasso, a benefit that other 2H DD don't have. I think the next best one would be DRK with last resort, but even that has about 50 seconds or so of downtime (not sure on this, I am not a DRK).
2. Ease of 4 step. I don't know a lot about BST, so I can't vouch for/against its ability to spontaneously make a SC when you need to proc it after uproot.
3. Kenda+1 makes it easy for SAM to have Subtle Blow without actually trying to have Subtle Blow. With regain, the benefits here are not as apparent, but it was something we took into consideration when we came up with our strat.
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
If you are using Fusenaikyo, your DPS is pretty shite compared to using Masamune.
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Seen it do it even with mewing and a sam in full subtle blow set.
Im not gonna lie, I can only theorycraft here based on videos I watched, because I dont have static for Mboze, so you have advantage of real approach over me, but..
.. I think using SAM for this is just not a good idea. Why you use SAM? It offers nothing good for this fight beside slashing damage. Like you admitted with Fusenaikyo damage drops by a lot too, so not even damage is a good argument. You use SAM just because you dont have anything else?
BST should be much better with killer effects/instinct/empy+1 body. BST can also dump hate on pet in case of hate reset on tank. BST with Auspice can also reach 70%SB with Doli and pretty much without any gear sacrifices. BST also adds +1 target for Tiiimbeeer.
So I think there's some confusion here. The reason to use Sam is its hardy enough to not need a tank, strong enough to kill the boss while super buffed, fast enough with skill chains to remove aura quickly and effectively, and also has 2 major SP's in order to get some extremely high damage quickly during the last 25%. I've been a part of Sam low tp smn kills of mboze, and truthfully our best run was I believe 3-4 total tp moves from mboze, worst was like 7 with some bad root of the problem issues in the last 25%. A couple observations I had during the encounters (as cor while someone else smn, and also as smn) is mew seems to get stronger with longer time between uses. At about 30s or greater the mews were doing better at removing tp from mboze, even with regain. Also your Sam has to know when to stop dps if a mechanic requires, IE Mboze just took monk or Sam roll, or a soul voiced March. Everything has to stop until the offending buffs are removed and/or appropriate buffs are replaced on the sam.
With Sam/Cor/Brd/Whm/Geo/Smn timber isn't a 1 shot, and you have time to get a new avatar up afterward if it goes down. The Cor and Brd have to be ready for root of the problem to refresh nitro for finale. Beyond all of this, we only have the cor and brd lined up with the Sam for canonpierce, the smn, geo, whm can all be on the opposite side of the boss @14 yalms and not be hit by anything other than timber. I believe our Sam uses masa at start to 50, fuse from 50-25 and masa for the last 25 to kill quickly. The fight is about patience at that point, which should be obvious given that the SP Mboze uses is Yag.
Bahamut.Yukisoba said: »
2. Ease of 4 step. I don't know a lot about BST, so I can't vouch for/against its ability to spontaneously make a SC when you need to proc it after uproot.
You probably can make it work, but you would TP very slow on BST, and pets get absolutely destroyed by Mboze, so you can't reliably incorporate your pet into the SC. DRK, SAM, hell even BLU would be more reliable for soloing the aura vs BST.
Edit:
Swap the PLD for the SMN, that's an interesting idea I guess, but dangerous with the buffs getting constantly absorbed from the SAM and unable to dispel them unless you have NiTro up on BRD.
And if you replace songs on the SAM you have to consider
1) they won't be Soul Voice songs
2) you won't be able to reapply a 5th song.
So again, it sounds like an interesting but ultimately but not failproof strategy.
Mboze is just that annoying, which is why I'm saying it's on a completely different league from any other Gaol NM.
Maybe we're just missing some mechanic about him, maybe SE just needs to balance it better I dunno.
Swap the PLD for the SMN, that's an interesting idea I guess, but dangerous with the buffs getting constantly absorbed from the SAM and unable to dispel them unless you have NiTro up on BRD.
And if you replace songs on the SAM you have to consider
1) they won't be Soul Voice songs
2) you won't be able to reapply a 5th song.
So again, it sounds like an interesting but ultimately but not failproof strategy.
Mboze is just that annoying, which is why I'm saying it's on a completely different league from any other Gaol NM.
Maybe we're just missing some mechanic about him, maybe SE just needs to balance it better I dunno.
Really if feels like you are just trying to use wrong jobs for this. Mboze just screams to use pet jobs and pet jobs seems to have all the answers. BST with Killer Instinct, hate dump, killer effects, 70%Subtle blow etc. provides safety for whole party and I think enough damage to kill Mboze. SMN add haste II and other buffs, can reduce TP spam with Mewing (not to 0, but still significantly) and I wouldnt be surprised if Atomos could dispel stolen buffs with easy and it dispels all the buffs, not just one.
Both BST and SMN provide +1 targets for Tiiimbeeer too.
Both BST and SMN provide +1 targets for Tiiimbeeer too.
There was a post above you that said Atomos doesn't work for dispel.
From my groups experiments, we couldn't find a way to dispel/buff steal it at all without the use of stuff like Dark Seal.
From my groups experiments, we couldn't find a way to dispel/buff steal it at all without the use of stuff like Dark Seal.
Asura.Sechs said: »
We never went with a SMN, what would you swap the SMN for, the COR? Then you lose 2+ Random Deal, Wildcard, ~60% attack and and Sam Roll.
Replace the BRD? Then you lose capped haste, Blade Madrigal, Dirge and ballads on the WHM. (and Arguably Nocturne but that barely seemed to be making a difference even with Soul Voice).
Replace the BRD? Then you lose capped haste, Blade Madrigal, Dirge and ballads on the WHM. (and Arguably Nocturne but that barely seemed to be making a difference even with Soul Voice).
Asura.Sechs said: »
SMN can do a shitton of stuff but you can't do it all at the same time and there's several moments where you sorta have to use gear with no chance to cap DT at the same time. If you do that in a bad moment you're dead and then Timbeer will kill the rest.
Managing to keep buffs up with their 8-9 minutes duration and keep the pet alive and avoiding being hit while you're swapping different BP gear just adds even more variables to the whole fight.
Managing to keep buffs up with their 8-9 minutes duration and keep the pet alive and avoiding being hit while you're swapping different BP gear just adds even more variables to the whole fight.
With max BP ward duration there's a nice lull around 35-25% which is great so you can pop AF Alexander, (reduces timber damage) then AC buffs back onto the party, this is the time EA is beginning to fall from what I've seen. Can rotate 2x buff mew, during AC and still be effective.
Asura.Geriond said: »
There was a post above you that said Atomos doesn't work for dispel.
From my groups experiments, we couldn't find a way to dispel/buff steal it at all without the use of stuff like Dark Seal.
From my groups experiments, we couldn't find a way to dispel/buff steal it at all without the use of stuff like Dark Seal.
I have BiS Macc gear on BRD, can't get anything better.
Despite that and despite
Soul Voice on me (grants a considerable macc bonus to songs)
Altana's Repast +1 (Macc+80, CHR+15)
SV threnody II on Mboze (light evasion -410, roughly?)
Entrusted Focus
Despite all that, there was no way to land Finale at all.
With NiTro up it lands 100% of course.
To be fair many times it's not an issue, but sometimes he just steals the wrong buffs and then it's a mess.
It's part of the reason why I said we had our PLD manually cancel his Protect V.
PLD doesn't really need Prot5 to survive Mboze's hits after all.
And to be fair Mboze's normal melee hits aren't really that dangerous, it's the huge amount of highly damaging TP moves that makes it dangerous.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Edit:
Swap the PLD for the SMN, that's an interesting idea I guess, but dangerous with the buffs getting constantly absorbed from the SAM and unable to dispel them unless you have NiTro up on BRD.
Maybe we're just missing some mechanic about him, maybe SE just needs to balance it better I dunno.
Swap the PLD for the SMN, that's an interesting idea I guess, but dangerous with the buffs getting constantly absorbed from the SAM and unable to dispel them unless you have NiTro up on BRD.
Maybe we're just missing some mechanic about him, maybe SE just needs to balance it better I dunno.
With low tp buffs usually aren't being removed right away unless rng decides to mess you up. With fuse we never saw a tp move until under 25% (v10 fuse the entire time (much lower damage))
Once the smn and Sam have a rhythm you can prevent tp moves pretty well. Especially the first 25-50%.
In regards to the mechanic, I'm still curious if anyone has brought a RDM to test the "Eye Star" translation thing for being blind. Would be interesting but then you have a job to juggle into the fight with the rest (could replace smn if it is in fact the mechanic to neuter timber)
Asura.Sechs said: »
We never went with a SMN, what would you swap the SMN for, the COR?
SMN, BST, WHM, PLD, BRD, GEO
You dont need COR. GEO+BRD+SMN+pet buffs should be enough attack+. Possible -25% from Rhinowrecker too (not sure how accurate is that).
apparently atomos will take back buffs mboze has stolen from the party, fwiw.
at least confirmed for v10, so use that info however you will
at least confirmed for v10, so use that info however you will
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
We never went with a SMN, what would you swap the SMN for, the COR?
SMN, BST, WHM, PLD, BRD, GEO
You dont need COR. GEO+BRD+SMN+pet buffs should be enough attack+. Possible -25% from Rhinowrecker too (not sure how accurate is that).
What's the 4step strategy here to kill fetters after uproot?
You can get up to 70 SB with Masamune, but you got to have a Dagon breastplate, Niqmaddu, and Mpaca Hose to pull it off. Only tradeoff is that you are literally a glass cannon, and must switch to magic defense sets while it is casting. As its HP goes down, Mboze's casting time starts getting longer and longer from what I noticed when I did V15 clear. Also its great to save smn's Perfect defense from 25% and down, after that I just popped Yaegasumi/Meikyo and just went HAM during Perfect Defense duration. Damn *** did 3 Timbers back to back, but we barely took any damage due to perfect defense negating the vast majority of damage lol. But overall a white mage needs to keep cureskin up on the SAM.
I forgot to mention that HP+ items can work against you if you are using them in idle sets when fighting Mboze (looking at you Moonlight Cape and Rings). I got rid of those items so my hp would not fluctuate much at all and would stay between 96-97% hp during swaps. For the mewing part we just made a macro to remind me to slow down on dps at 25sec mark, and wait 10-15secs for smn to mew again. We were mewing every 35-40 secs that way resistance would decay enough to land at high potency.
I forgot to mention that HP+ items can work against you if you are using them in idle sets when fighting Mboze (looking at you Moonlight Cape and Rings). I got rid of those items so my hp would not fluctuate much at all and would stay between 96-97% hp during swaps. For the mewing part we just made a macro to remind me to slow down on dps at 25sec mark, and wait 10-15secs for smn to mew again. We were mewing every 35-40 secs that way resistance would decay enough to land at high potency.
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
We never went with a SMN, what would you swap the SMN for, the COR?
SMN, BST, WHM, PLD, BRD, GEO
You dont need COR. GEO+BRD+SMN+pet buffs should be enough attack+. Possible -25% from Rhinowrecker too (not sure how accurate is that).
So without the cor you can easily bst multistep bearing in mind that a -GA5 after uproot has a good chance to kill your pet? Unless you're Johnny on the spot with swapping to pet dt at which point you're taking more damage from the same GA spell.
We use cor for sam/monk roll negating the need for most if not all subtle blow on the Sam for better gearing options.
SimonSes said: »
Really if feels like you are just trying to use wrong jobs for this. Mboze just screams to use pet jobs and pet jobs seems to have all the answers. BST with Killer Instinct, hate dump, killer effects, 70%Subtle blow etc. provides safety for whole party and I think enough damage to kill Mboze. SMN add haste II and other buffs, can reduce TP spam with Mewing (not to 0, but still significantly) and I wouldnt be surprised if Atomos could dispel stolen buffs with easy and it dispels all the buffs, not just one.
Both BST and SMN provide +1 targets for Tiiimbeeer too.
Both BST and SMN provide +1 targets for Tiiimbeeer too.
Hate dump isnt an issue tbh and the 70% subtle blow only seems to really work before 50% after that he just does it when he wants. Also you'd want to kill it before smn buffs wear because at some point you gonna be stuck mewing only. Atomos can't dispel as many have said already. Also the smn pet dies super quick hell even firefly can kill it at times. We'd get unlucky or maybe pet was too close at some point. Again this isn't me saying the strat you suggest won't work I just find it hard to believe it can I would love to be proven wrong.
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
We never went with a SMN, what would you swap the SMN for, the COR?
SMN, BST, WHM, PLD, BRD, GEO
You dont need COR. GEO+BRD+SMN+pet buffs should be enough attack+. Possible -25% from Rhinowrecker too (not sure how accurate is that).
Like I said, I honestly think this is what SE wanted, but it would take a bit of practice and tinkering with all the variables. I'm not man enough to find out by wasting Moglophone's doing V15 Mboze research though.
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
We never went with a SMN, what would you swap the SMN for, the COR?
SMN, BST, WHM, PLD, BRD, GEO
You dont need COR. GEO+BRD+SMN+pet buffs should be enough attack+. Possible -25% from Rhinowrecker too (not sure how accurate is that).
Like I said, I honestly think this is what SE wanted, but it would take a bit of practice and tinkering with all the variables. I'm not man enough to find out by wasting Moglophone's doing V15 Mboze research though.
[+]
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