Feb 2018 Ambuscade Vol 1

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Feb 2018 Ambuscade Vol 1
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-13 17:15:55
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Dullhan's are Paladins, those gianormous shields aren't there for show. If your anywhere in front of it then it's got some sort of ridiculous block rate, so a SAM wouldn't be able to use Overwhelm which is a very potent bonus for them.
 Fenrir.Jumeya
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By Fenrir.Jumeya 2018-02-13 18:22:45
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
I mean you already have low damage since you're not facing it.
And if Bulwark was up, you wont even deal damage..
Also 2k is way lower than normal, should be around 10-12k on VD

Our sam was consistently doing 20k with Idris geo, dia2 and cor rolls attacking from behind.

The reason melee is worse, is that you lose tp during the charge up as it gets Absorb-TP spikes. This can be particularly bad during miasma if you're unable to push enough damage to interrupt it.
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-13 18:53:17
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Afania said: »
Tried a bunch of VD melee runs with PLD, DRK, DD or COR, DD BRD, GEO, DD WHM, no KC TP feed though, just spam stone to feed TP.

Similar to that JP video, melee setup clear time seems to be around 8-10 min-ish depending on things, slower than COR x3 ranged attack setup (6 min) and it's more likely to have random death and shitty moment with melees.

I have no idea why ranged COR x3 setup kill so fast but melee setup can't seem to beat it despite melee jobs should be stronger than ranged jobs. I'm a better melee COR than ranged COR too, so it was kinda surprising. I'm guessing it's because COR x3 setup is 3 DD with 6 rolls that uses WS light SC with each other v.s melee setup with 2 real DD and 2 rolls using WS that don't SC that well. Since Ranged attack setup doesn't need a a healer, we get 1 extra pt slot for 3rd COR if we are not meleeing.

Also having to run out of range whenever it boils(you don't have to if you turn, but we all run out just to be safe) then run back in may also slow down DPS for melee, on the other hand ranged job just keep shooting without ever having to move.

As far as none SMN AC setup goes I would say COR x3 may be very hard to beat in terms of kill speed and efficiency just because of safety.

Edit: Just remembered we entered VD without idris, so forget it. The slower kill speed may be the result of weaker buffs, unless none idris can cap attack in VD. I can't remember if COR x3 pt had idris or not.

Could also be related to TP feed/generation. Ranged attackers don't have TP drained from Retaliation, so boss has less TP to work with, plus have more TP to work with themselves since they aren't getting their TP drained.
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By Pantafernando 2018-02-13 19:01:58
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Maybe either a lua/equipset problem (like equiping a wrong set during WS) or accuracy as the mob is quite evasive. Maybe the set of that sam is geared for low acc Fudo?
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2018-02-13 19:06:34
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Fenrir.Jumeya said: »
The reason melee is worse, is that you lose tp during the charge up as it gets Absorb-TP spikes. This can be particularly bad during miasma if you're unable to push enough damage to interrupt it.

I was answering why SAM isn’t good on it because it loses a lot from not having [overwhelm] buff.

In regards to pure DPS, Ranged setup by far the best aside from AC/AF in terms of speed.
3CORs using Random Roll cycle/Triple Short like Afania mentioned before is broken.

Yet if you want to do it mele, I’d suggest DRG or WAR over SAM.
DRG is exceptional here for its angon/jumps and hate control.. same goes for DNC that can generate a lot of TP without even engaging [steps/RF]
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By Jdove 2018-02-13 21:09:09
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Fenrir.Jumeya said: »
Dispel never lands. if no finale/blank gaze, power through
try using a smn and have them use pavourn noctournus and atomos might cost alot of mp for a dispel but diabolos is very accurate with pavourn noctournus it will prolly work even tho the mob is dark based atomos idk about but probably work too
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By Afania 2018-02-14 01:38:50
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
What rolls did you use Afaina?

Assuming Chaos, SAM, Allies, Tactician's, Rogue's, Hunters?

Quote:
Maybe Rogues is a better choice than misers, I'm not sure.

Just compared misers v.s Rogues on spreadsheet, using values listed on bg-wiki. A CC No.11 +7 misers does beat No.11 +7 Rogues with job bonus proc for fomal COR, however if you use Arma cor or rng things may change a bit because Arma cor and rng benefits from crit-hit rate more.

The problem with misers is that it's pretty useless if you roll a low roll value, the value has to be perfect to be effective. On the other hand rogues is linear increase so no matter what number you got it's always useful until crit rat capped.


I would probably only use misers if you have spare WC/random deal/SV to burn and gamble for a high roll value, and do rogues most of the time when I can't take risk for high misers value.

Edit: Got my numbers wrong, only CC No.11 Misers is worth using really. So rogues for 6th roll all day.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-14 11:42:50
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1) Ranged attackers do work well
A lot easier to do careful damage and not have to deal with spikes or shield blocks, and no concerns about turning/excess auto-attacks after boil, getting out of range in time for Nether Castigation, taking AoE damage from "normal" Dullahan JAs, etc.

It doesn't have to be 3x COR by any means, could really be any combination of RNG and CORs. I did several yesterday on N~D with RNG RNG COR or RNG COR COR setups (along with tank/healer/support, and a non-WHM backline job can prob handle the healing just fine at least on easier levels). I'm assuming that with the necessary gear and support, VD works the same, though haven't personally done that yet.

At least one RNG can be handy even if just for Shadowbind, which is effective at binding the Dullahan in case there's a mistake and it kills the tank, giving you some time for raises/rebuffing/etc.

Also, not sure of exact range on Nether Castigation but I was fine on RNG standing just over 21' away.

2) Tanking notes
* I went with PLD yesterday (which works, as usual), but tank role seems pretty flexible. PLD can definitely still get one shotted by Nether Castigation if your DDs don't lay off, but tanking weak on D or below seems to be no huge problem even if that does happen.

* NIN might actually be the ideal tank here (assuming a good enmity set and use of Gekka/Yonin)? Migawari DOES save NIN from Nether Castigation if there's too much accidental post-boil damage, and shadows are effective against the other Dullahan TP moves. Personally, I'm kinda curious to try a NIN-burn melee strat with like ~3 NINs keeping Migawari up, and just meleeing away with no concern for slowing damage after boil.

* RUN is fine too with ability to use light runes being helpful to mitigate damage from the Dullahan. I don't think Foil saves you against Nether Castigation, but maybe I'm wrong - someone please correct me if I am. FWIW, Scherzo on PLD tank didn't work.

* PUP seems like it would work well too, since automatons' very strong HP & innate damage reduction could give some more buffer on damage done after boil and the tank still surviving. Plus, easy to just call out a new puppet and go back to work (after a short time to reestablish hate) if the tank does get one-shotted by a big Nether Castigation. Only issue with PUP might be a somewhat sloppier start, as it's a little harder to get instant initial hate on the automaton while holding the pony & dullahan. Should still be doable with a good puppet enmity set though, and some master Ventriloquy trickery (use subjob enmity generating actions then vent onto the puppet).

Phoenix.Gerrott said: »
How well do Trueflight chains work on the dullahan? Looking to hopefully get my Ambus out of the way this weekend. I'd imagine a chain during charging would be a for sure death but if he is indeed weak to light elemental, should be very strong.

TF was considerably worse than Last Stand from what we were seeing, I'd just gear for physical WS and go /WAR with Nusku Shield. FWIW, Leaden Salute from our CORs was also poor on the unicorn - Last Stand spam there was also much more effective for us.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-02-15 19:41:42
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NIN/PLD works well for this month's Vol. 1, though, it is a lot of work.
All of the Ninjutsu enfeebles stick well on the horse.
Thanks to Migawari, there is no need to stop the DPS with a ranged set-up, so you can take full advantage of the 4x damage the Dullahan sometimes takes.
Yes, a great NIN/PLD can hold hate from three CORs going all out--at least until the very last few %, hahaha!
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By Afania 2018-02-16 05:45:37
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
NIN/PLD works well for this month's Vol. 1, though, it is a lot of work.
All of the Ninjutsu enfeebles stick well on the horse.
Thanks to Migawari, there is no need to stop the DPS with a ranged set-up, so you can take full advantage of the 4x damage the Dullahan sometimes takes.
Yes, a great NIN/PLD can hold hate from three CORs going all out--at least until the very last few %, hahaha!

Would be useful to pair up with COR/DRG and reset High jump for enmity loss as well. Sub 5 min VD run without SMN AC gogo? :D
 Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2018-02-16 06:04:34
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I can't seem to stop miasma and I can't prevent it. Always killed by that.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-16 06:07:09
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Did a couple VD last night using the shooting method with SPs and resets. Goes well as long as you don't make mistakes and Mike paladin. Something to note which I may have missed in this thread: nether castigation damage can be reduced with rampart, if for any reason your shooter happens to deal excessive damage during boil. We distinctively remember over shooting the dullahan and saying "paladin is dead" but then he survived with rampart, proving it's magiCal. Good to know I'm case of potential screw ups
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-16 06:08:22
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Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: »
I can't seem to stop miasma and I can't prevent it. Always killed by that.

Just weapon skill when miasma. It should break it and downgrade it to boil. The trick is to not have multiple DD weapon skill during miasma, unless it doesn't break
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-02-16 06:13:17
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We tweaked it alittle and swapped a COR for a RNG. The RNG shadowbound the Dullahan at the start to give the NIN some breathing room to set-up position and get enfeebles on the horse.

NIN/PLD, GEO/RDM, SCH/WHM, COR, COR, RNG

NIN tanks it out in the middle, no need to move them much. Just run in, establish hate--Sentinel prevents the Dullahan from wandering off--then face the horse away from the CORs and back a little bit away from the Shadowbound Dullahan.

GEO flurries and keeps indi-Haste on the NIN. Geo-Frailty. We did D and VD. VD requires Indi-Precision, but D can be an all out indi-Fury fest. While the horse is alive, keep Dia II and Distract on it.

We made sure the NIN had Caster's Roll. Otherwise, nothing else special.

The SCH did nothing but babysit the NIN as needed. The horse can put a pretty long stun on the tank, so stay attentive.

This strategy is very busy and a lot of work for the NIN, but so fun. I recommend trying it at least once before the end of the month!
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By Afania 2018-02-16 06:31:35
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I really really recommend using BRD instead of healer for ranged setup. Racc buffs are crucial to push COR DPS as high as possible. Using Racc swaps = less TP overflow for WS= (way) less DPS.

I really doubt any tank can hold hate off fully buffed COR at this point, even without damage boost mechanics active, 22k+ last stand (and light SC) is easily doable in full stp TP set even if you just spam ws as fast as possible. With damage boost mechanics active it's 3x to 4x more.

I guess maybe /DRG and random deal spam works, although I haven't try.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-02-16 08:46:13
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I had no trouble tanking Dullahan on pup. More damage reduction and more hp makes for more room for slop from dd's on Nether Castigation. I haven't tried tanking both at same time. though I was easy to send puppet to horse, and flash/ventriloquy the dullahan. I'm not sure how well dullahan will stay put if auto is not engaged to him. easily done w/ 2x puppetmasters,, then when horse is dead, switch to DD auto instead.

but I think ppl should check Nyarlko's work and testing on bg-wiki for this fight. Found some great info about tp mechanics and using bst to keep Dullahan in boiling mode and NOT doing Nether Castigation.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-16 09:36:48
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I had no trouble tanking Dullahan on pup

Robots are nearly invincible, survivability has never been the issue with PUP tanks, holding hate has. Robot's don't produce enough CE to hold hate off ranged much less melee DPS, both need to severely nerf their own damage in order for pet tanking to work.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-02-16 10:42:36
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Afania said: »
I really really recommend using BRD instead of healer for ranged setup. Racc buffs are crucial to push COR DPS as high as possible. Using Racc swaps = less TP overflow for WS= (way) less DPS.

I really doubt any tank can hold hate off fully buffed COR at this point, even without damage boost mechanics active, 22k+ last stand (and light SC) is easily doable in full stp TP set even if you just spam ws as fast as possible. With damage boost mechanics active it's 3x to 4x more.

I guess maybe /DRG and random deal spam works, although I haven't try.

I was surprised NIN/PLD was able to hold hate even without a BRD, honestly, but the enmity mechanics at play in the zone are what made it possible.
The Dullahan would generally turn to chase down the backline just in time for the last three WS to fire off and kill it.
We chose SCH because the NIN was dual-boxing his own healer, so the increased durations were very helpful. It might be possible for a BRD/WHM to keep a NIN up if played by itself. It is also possible that with the increased power provided to the backline, the added speed to the Dullahan's death would offset the increased enmity from doing more damage.

Even though we used a SCH as the healer, at least for one run, we forgot to use Animus, so it wasn't a defining factor.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-02-16 12:32:40
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I had no trouble tanking Dullahan on pup

Robots are nearly invincible, survivability has never been the issue with PUP tanks, holding hate has. Robot's don't produce enough CE to hold hate off ranged much less melee DPS, both need to severely nerf their own damage in order for pet tanking to work.

I'm sorry, I forgot I was a noob who doesn't know basic mechanics or have any experience tanking High level content when there are high level DDS.

I tanked this with several Cor and rng. They pulled hate off 2x thru our many runs when they did some big skillchains and I was being lazy. When I make sure to have pet enmity set for provoke and flash, there was no problem. Auto can hold hate no problem if you use your heyoka set right.

I wasn't planning on tanking originally. PLD was tanking dullahan and I was tanking charger until it dead, then switch to DD, but the pld was getting killed too much so I was building hate for backup tank. I pulled hate away from pld, so I just tanked both one after the other.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-16 13:48:01
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Re: tanking/hate, I'm really fairly convinced that NIN might be the best for this month's Intense Ambuscade.

If you're using a ranged method, there's also no reason a NIN can't tank Dullahan with back to the RNGs for Decoy Shot to make it easier to maintain hate - IIRC there isn't major knockback when you're blinking away the AoE TP moves (but if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me). If hate is at all problematic for you, that's a pretty good reason to bring 1-2 RNG and not fixate on CORx3 (not saying that setup doesn't also work though). Can't recall how bad the knockback is for non-blink tanks, so maybe a little worse for PLD RUN to not stand back to wall.

For hate, I'd think just using NIN/WAR for more double attacks and voke every 30sec is the way I'd go, but I guess if /PLD and Sentinel is working for hate for you, more power to ya. In any case, Gekka up, Yonin up, voke every 30sec with a good enmity set, use Issekigan when you can (probably especially good to use on horse while you take that out). The 2 mob phase is surely the most annoying for a NIN tank, but once the unicorn goes down just keep haste up for shadows/migawari and ignore stopping damage for boil altogether since miga will save you.

Kinda feel like PLD might actually be the worst of the common tanking options for this month, behind NIN RUN PUP. But still, it obviously works just fine (and I have had a PLD tank in almost all of my runs so far with minimal issue).
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-16 14:08:07
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I was just about to type out that NIN looks like a great option, but i was afraid to try it. Think I'll test out that method tonight, since my NIN is pretty good. Have to make an enmity set since i normally don't tank on nin.
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-16 16:13:13
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I shall be nice and copy/pasta here too. ^^
Slightly cleaned up GTrans of jpdb mob resistance entry:
GTrans said:
Bozzetto Retributionist (Model of Abdullus - Legion)
Magical Damage + 12.5%
Magical Defense 200
Fire 50% Wind 30% Lightning 30% Light 70%
Water 20% Earth 25% Ice 25% Dark 15%

An individual appearing in the ambuscade. Ice spikes (Tayafashi), dread spikes (over tenacity), Endark II, Aspir II · III, all Absorbs, stun (AOE with difficulty), Bio III.
Using the special skill "Charging Up" dedicated to that, one of the logs of "Boss starts to accumulate power", "Boss begins to accumulate grudge", "Boss started to accumulate spirit" flows.
In case of force develop TP absorption spike. The special technique to be used next is "Atramentous Oblation" (self center range damage + multiple buff absorption).
Impacting additional effects when cumulative damage equal to or greater than the threshold is hit during accumulation Multiple absorption disappears.
In case of grudge develop a TP + 300/3 sec regain sphere to PC. The special technique to be used next becomes "Nether Castigation" (own center range damage) itself.
The cumulative damage impacted while accumulating, the power rises, damage is bounced up to about 3,000 for easy, and up to around 60000 for extreme.
Even in the case of miasma develop TP absorption spike. The special technique to be used next will be "Eizen Schneider" (own range instant death).
If you hit WS (even 0 bad) in the middle of accumulation it will be canceled and switch to a grudge pool.
Also, PC can invalidate instant death if it is in healing state when Eisen Schneider is hit.
Magic becomes only spike from HP 5%, special skill will use only Noahianto (self center range dark damage + human killer).

Sounds like:
* If you feed enough TP to break thru Retribution TP spikes, the next Atra. will not absorb any buffs.
* NC has a damage cap associated with difficulty. Doesn't matter much if you take 3k vs 60k, yer dead either way.
* Eisen Schneider is like Odin's move. Anyone feel like verifying that you don't take damage instead of death if /heal 'ing when it hits?

* Anyone know if Ready/BP shift miasma mode? If not, well... found another easy way to cheese this fight then. XD
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-16 16:18:02
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I'm sorry, I forgot I was a noob who doesn't know basic mechanics

You don't if you think a robot can hold hate on serious DD's.

It's pretty simple mechanics and the power of friendship won't help you.
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-16 16:21:32
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
but I think ppl should check Nyarlko's work and testing on bg-wiki for this fight. Found some great info about tp mechanics and using bst to keep Dullahan in boiling mode and NOT doing Nether Castigation.

<3 My record is now ~7min of keeping it locked down doing absolutely nothing but casting spells, on VE for easy testing. Only 7min because it was down to ~5-10% hp and I suicided to prevent loss of KI. Worked on Easy too, just more annoying since have to deal with add first. Between this method and /heal, should be amazingly stupidly easy to cheese this fight now I think. :D
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-16 16:23:05
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Re: tanking/hate, I'm really fairly convinced that NIN might be the best for this month's Intense Ambuscade.

If you're using a ranged method, there's also no reason a NIN can't tank Dullahan with back to the RNGs for Decoy Shot to make it easier to maintain hate - IIRC there isn't major knockback when you're blinking away the AoE TP moves (but if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me). If hate is at all problematic for you, that's a pretty good reason to bring 1-2 RNG and not fixate on CORx3 (not saying that setup doesn't also work though). Can't recall how bad the knockback is for non-blink tanks, so maybe a little worse for PLD RUN to not stand back to wall.

For hate, I'd think just using NIN/WAR for more double attacks and voke every 30sec is the way I'd go, but I guess if /PLD and Sentinel is working for hate for you, more power to ya. In any case, Gekka up, Yonin up, voke every 30sec with a good enmity set, use Issekigan when you can (probably especially good to use on horse while you take that out). The 2 mob phase is surely the most annoying for a NIN tank, but once the unicorn goes down just keep haste up for shadows/migawari and ignore stopping damage for boil altogether since miga will save you.

Kinda feel like PLD might actually be the worst of the common tanking options for this month, behind NIN RUN PUP. But still, it obviously works just fine (and I have had a PLD tank in almost all of my runs so far with minimal issue).

I've tanked VD multiple times on RUN/WHM, RUN/BLU and RUN/DRK and it's a joke regardless. The only thing that can kill you is if your DD's don't know to control damage / TP feed during charging and even then you can run away if you know what your doing. Physical attacks don't hit hard and your going to resist everything else he does. Hate holding is stupid easy with the vast array of tools RUN has (voke is a REALLY shitty hate tool)
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-16 16:24:51
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How does one even force miasma to begin with? Been having a hard time see it and it always happens when doing same thing as I normally do
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By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2018-02-16 19:25:48
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How many volt strikes does it take to bring down miasma? had it KO us despite at least 2 Volts going off.
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By Cerberus.Boogs 2018-02-16 19:37:57
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clearlyamule said: »
How does one even force miasma to begin with? Been having a hard time see it and it always happens when doing same thing as I normally do

I am not so sure that miasma can be forced. I have noticed, however, that it is more likely to occur on VD, and usually at lower HP.

Perhaps others may have actually noticed a pattern. But based on the runs we did on D and VD, miasma seems random.
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By Cerberus.Boogs 2018-02-16 19:39:35
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Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »
How many volt strikes does it take to bring down miasma? had it KO us despite at least 2 Volts going off.

That really depends on your damage per VS. I think it is damage based. On D, the magic number seems to be around 10k (which is usually accomplished by a single light SC). On VD, we seemed to never do enough dmg and just took advantage of G.Hymnus.
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