Feb 2018 Ambuscade Vol 1

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Feb 2018 Ambuscade Vol 1
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-02-18 14:31:39
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You can ignore the messages with ranger or dd, yup, tank just dies and raises, resumes tanking.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-02-18 14:49:52
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
You can ignore the messages with ranger or dd, yup, tank just dies and raises, resumes tanking.

Sounds extremely easy, so I'll give it a shot tonight. Cheers.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-02-18 14:58:27
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If you use a ninja tank, they generally won't die.
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By oyama 2018-02-18 15:17:28
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If you're using non-nin melee DDs, you will need to pay attention to messages.

Quick important points to maybe save you some time:
Nether Castigation has a range of 20' and works like Pain Sync. Uses it during boiling mode when it has tp, migawari eats it.
Eisenschneider has a range of 30' and is an instant KO. Eisenschneider will go off if the mob gets tp while in miasma mode. Break miasma with WS, and it will go to boiling mode.

The fight is pretty easy but it does require a strategy to make it easy, unless you are just throwing smn 1hrs at it.
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-18 16:42:38
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oyama said: »
If you're using non-nin melee DDs, you will need to pay attention to messages.

Quick important points to maybe save you some time:
Nether Castigation has a range of 20' and works like Pain Sync. Uses it during boiling mode when it has tp, migawari eats it.
Eisenschneider has a range of 30' and is an instant KO. Eisenschneider will go off if the mob gets tp while in miasma mode. Break miasma with WS, and it will go to boiling mode.

The fight is pretty easy but it does require a strategy to make it easy, unless you are just throwing smn 1hrs at it.

Any idea how much TP is needed for it to unlock/trigger Eisenschneider?
 Lakshmi.Guuki
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By Lakshmi.Guuki 2018-02-18 18:34:42
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Asura.Kuroganashi said: »


Mob never did a TP move or anything.

No filters either.

My GF Mysticat did that much dmg with her Aeonic GA.

Any thoughts or Explanations on how she 1 shot the mob?

I see a Stygian Release there, then a few seconds after the damage spike on the WS. I got the same thing a little bit ago on a D run. Boss was <10%, horse was already dead. Stygian Release > few seconds later, WS with spiked dmg.

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By clearlyamule 2018-02-19 02:09:59
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Nyarlko said: »
Asura.Aoryu said: »
mildly interesting that elemental sforzo did not absorb nether castigation on a botched boil tonight. assumed it was magic based, but it must be some special type.

It's hybrid dark/physical damage. Gains TP after using it. Suspect that it's also multi-hit since I've drained more than one TP value immediately after it's used as well, but have yet to make enough sense of it to say that it is for sure.
It doesn't use pdt, evasion or pdif checks so I'm hesitant to call it physical. Doesn't use mdt either but does use DT.

Haven't gotten around to dark or bdt yet specifically because stupid thing literally hasn't used it in the last 10 runs. Like even spamming dia wont get it to charge for some reason :(

Multihit would be why scherzo isn't working.
 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2018-02-19 02:28:35
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EA/Scherzo work on Nether Castigation.
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-19 02:36:46
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Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
EA/Scherzo work on Nether Castigation.
Thought someone earlier said it didn't oh well.
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By Afania 2018-02-19 03:03:58
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clearlyamule said: »
Nyarlko said: »
Asura.Aoryu said: »
mildly interesting that elemental sforzo did not absorb nether castigation on a botched boil tonight. assumed it was magic based, but it must be some special type.

It's hybrid dark/physical damage. Gains TP after using it. Suspect that it's also multi-hit since I've drained more than one TP value immediately after it's used as well, but have yet to make enough sense of it to say that it is for sure.
It doesn't use pdt, evasion or pdif checks so I'm hesitant to call it physical. Doesn't use mdt either but does use DT.

Haven't gotten around to dark or bdt yet specifically because stupid thing literally hasn't used it in the last 10 runs. Like even spamming dia wont get it to charge for some reason :(

Multihit would be why scherzo isn't working.

I recall one of the PLD survived a *** up boil later he said he popped invinicible.

Can anyone confirm that invinicible works?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-02-19 03:08:38
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clearlyamule said: »
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
EA/Scherzo work on Nether Castigation.
Thought someone earlier said it didn't oh well.

They and migawari work on Castegation.

It's eisenschider that nothing works on as its not damage but death.
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-19 05:04:21
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
EA/Scherzo work on Nether Castigation.
Thought someone earlier said it didn't oh well.

They and migawari work on Castegation.

It's eisenschider that nothing works on as its not damage but death.

I must have misread the BGwiki page for Dullahans (or it was updated since I referenced it earlier,) and Nether Castigation = Noahionto = dark element hellifiknow damage type. Every other offensive TP move that Dullahans can normally do is physical or physical/dark.

TPDK Lockdown works on Nether Castigation too. ;)

Has anyone confirmed/disproved the "/heal dodges Eisenschneider" thing? If you /heal it, does it still do damage or is it a pure whiff? Also, how much TP does it need to charge up after Miasma msg to actually pop Eisen? I believe it's trigger is the same mechanism as Boil/NC and hoping it is stuck waiting for 3k w/o doing anything else instead.
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-19 10:41:14
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Afania said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Nyarlko said: »
Asura.Aoryu said: »
mildly interesting that elemental sforzo did not absorb nether castigation on a botched boil tonight. assumed it was magic based, but it must be some special type.

It's hybrid dark/physical damage. Gains TP after using it. Suspect that it's also multi-hit since I've drained more than one TP value immediately after it's used as well, but have yet to make enough sense of it to say that it is for sure.
It doesn't use pdt, evasion or pdif checks so I'm hesitant to call it physical. Doesn't use mdt either but does use DT.

Haven't gotten around to dark or bdt yet specifically because stupid thing literally hasn't used it in the last 10 runs. Like even spamming dia wont get it to charge for some reason :(

Multihit would be why scherzo isn't working.

I recall one of the PLD survived a *** up boil later he said he popped invinicible.

Can anyone confirm that invinicible works?
invincible is basically just 100% pdt so super doubt it but the automaton version definitely didn't work
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By Afania 2018-02-19 12:31:41
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
1) Ranged attackers do work well
It doesn't have to be 3x COR by any means, could really be any combination of RNG and CORs. I did several yesterday on N~D with RNG RNG COR or RNG COR COR setups (along with tank/healer/support, and a non-WHM backline job can prob handle the healing just fine at least on easier levels). I'm assuming that with the necessary gear and support, VD works the same, though haven't personally done that yet.

Tried COR RNG RNG combo tonight, despite all 3 ranged attackers parsed more evenly this time, for some reason it took much longer to kill than COR x3.

I think the key difference is probably the difference between full time triple shot/berserk and without. Not having triple shot up really really hurt COR DPS. Then there's less rolls too. ranged COR may be kind of job that we need to stack multiples of them for max efficiency.

It can also be the difference between idris and NQ GEO though.
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2018-02-19 13:10:09
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Nyarlko said: »
Has anyone confirmed/disproved the "/heal dodges Eisenschneider" thing? If you /heal it, does it still do damage or is it a pure whiff? Also, how much TP does it need to charge up after Miasma msg to actually pop Eisen? I believe it's trigger is the same mechanism as Boil/NC and hoping it is stuck waiting for 3k w/o doing anything else instead.
/heal works and converts the Death into damage (about 500~, seems magic based). It does need TP to use it, pretty sure it's also 3k.
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-19 13:44:17
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Now if we can only force miasma...
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By Nyarlko 2018-02-19 16:35:03
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Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Nyarlko said: »
Has anyone confirmed/disproved the "/heal dodges Eisenschneider" thing? If you /heal it, does it still do damage or is it a pure whiff? Also, how much TP does it need to charge up after Miasma msg to actually pop Eisen? I believe it's trigger is the same mechanism as Boil/NC and hoping it is stuck waiting for 3k w/o doing anything else instead.
/heal works and converts the Death into damage (about 500~, seems magic based). It does need TP to use it, pretty sure it's also 3k.

Thank you very much for the answers. ^^ That means I could TPDK if neeeded to reset the BOOM timer if Miasma refused to break for whatever reason. No Regain aura makes Boil mode more attractive for abusing still, but always good to have options.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-20 22:34:33
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Siren.Kyte said: »
I would assume NIN x2-3 would be fine even if there isn't another beneficial gimmick in play.

So I got around to trying with a couple NIN as the only frontline jobs and it was... less impressive than I had hoped. Migawari/Shadows work fine for keeping the NINs alive, but the damage was pretty awful. Whoever has hate will run into shield blocks galore, so only NINs who can get behind the mob can do good damage. RNG method was a lot better/faster damage in my experience.

Still, NIN as tank is def viable. It's a bit sloppier on initial Dullahan+Pony phase than a PLD or RUN (and Scintillant Lance can and will 1-shot NINs without Migawari up), but once you get the Dullahan alone it's fine and if you're using ranged damage, can just ignore boil.

Afania said: »
I think the key difference is probably the difference between full time triple shot/berserk and without. Not having triple shot up really really hurt COR DPS. Then there's less rolls too. ranged COR may be kind of job that we need to stack multiples of them for max efficiency.

I could definitely see this being the case. At any rate, for people without 3 good ranged CORs available, mix of RNG COR definitely works well too.
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-21 20:33:57
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So finished up my Nether castigation testing and not effected by lux vallation or BDT. But it is effected by DT so it's one of those super rare things without an element or dmg type at all (ok yes I didn't try all elements so it might be some weird one but meh)

Also about dmg spikes or such. I think it is probably pdif related. Like I've managed to hit almost exactly same max numbers with my autos with and without fire which shouldn't be possible on basically anything ilvl. But also don't notice any super low ones on VE as long as fire is up. So maybe it has really low def but maybe it has something that temporarily raises it a bunch? Like maybe whenever it blocks or something
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By clearlyamule 2018-02-28 21:34:40
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Fun note for pups. /sit makes your auto sit too which counts for avoiding the KO move. Probably works with drg too but have my doubts on other pet jobs
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-03-02 12:32:45
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So I did this fight a week back with a friend who knew exactly how to handle the messages and was able to lead the run nicely, but last night I tried doing it with a pickup group and it was exceptionally difficult despite only doing Normal and Easy.

It's mainly because I didn't learn how to treat the messages exactly, so I couldn't explain it enough to our WHM. We only use ranger setup for this. Someone said you can just "AFK auto range and just let the tank die over and over", but that's just .. terrible and very slow.

What I took from my friend leading the run was something like this:

- Stop doing damage when it "Charges Up" (TP Move)
- Can start doing damage again 5-10 seconds later.

- If it goes into Miasma (log message), do one WS and spam Dia II til it does Nether Castigation. Do not DD at all til it's done.

- Boiling mode .. I'm guessing you stop damage? I don't know.

I never had it explained properly and sifting through this entire thread through all the derailment is very annoying. Anyone able to explain this clearly to me (like I've never done this fight before) so I don't lead another terrible run?
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2018-03-02 12:37:53
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[The Retributionist] Pay attention to its messages and do the following:
1- "Charging" [Deal normal DMG] after you see the message.
2- "Boil Over" [Stop DMG completly and Spam T1 to force "Nether Castigation"]then go back to normal damage.
3-"Miasma" [WS directly once you see this message to turn it back to Boil Over] Or [Runaway to 30+] Or [/Heal once you see "Eisenschneider" GL with that one] Then repeat point #2

[Turn Filters ON and leave Monster Moves Filter OFF]

Also this might help [There are many videos on Youtube]:
YouTube Video Placeholder
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-03-02 12:56:52
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K so going to write up what I see in the video, and if it's wrong please correct me.

Our WHM from last night said that putting protect/shell on the party makes the Dullahan stronger? I'm sure this advice is wrong looking at the video.

1) Buff. Tank pulls both. Target Charger and WS when it's not doing TP moves itself or it will be healed. (I did not know about the Enfeebling thing til I watched the video!)

2) Retributionist messages:

In the video I saw the following:

-- Boil Over. They Stopped and spammed T1 nukes til Nether.

-- Miasma: Do a WS quick after message to put it back to Boiling so can get rid of it with T1 nukes.

-- I didn't see it Charging Up at any point. I was told that doing damage during Charging Up causes it to do a ton of damage back to the party. Is it safe to completely ignore Charging Up and keep DDing anyways?

Looks like I was way off the mark, and my friend wasn't completely right either.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2018-03-02 13:07:24
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Thats pretty much it except it was "charging up" before Boiling Over and buffs are okay [they also can be reapplied once they are dispeled by Atramentous Libations also keep refresh on PLD]
You can deal damage during charging normally just always wait for messages [this will hurt DPS but its better than dealing with all the drama]
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-03-02 13:10:57
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Thats pretty much it except it was "charging up" before Boiling Over and buffs are okay [they also can be reapplied once they are dispeled by Atramentous Libations also keep refresh on PLD]
You can deal damage during charging normally just always wait for messages [this will hurt DPS but its better than dealing with all the drama]

Thanks for confirming. Nice to know we only have to worry about Boil and Miasma, and Charging Up is just an extra TP move. I think now that I know exactly how this works, I'll be able to explain it to any mage who joins us.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2018-03-02 13:17:13
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You're welcome, and throughout this thread you will find many important tips done by players [best strats, buffs combos to cut time buried in the infamous SMN "Cringe" as always]
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-03-02 13:20:26
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
You're welcome, and throughout this thread you will find many important tips done by players [best strats, buffs combos to cut time buried in the infamous SMN "Cringe" as always]

Thanks, I'm glad I didn't have to go back in to the darkness. We didn't have much trouble from the tank or DD side, it was just the messages that was confusing me and others. Might have to make another party tonight.
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