Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
i don't follow
so you do 5 hits in TP build
then swap to WS build, hit once, then ws?
so you do 5 hits in TP build
then swap to WS build, hit once, then ws?
Hit 5 times, swap to WS build and WS then swap back.
Apoc Dead?
Apoc dead?
Hit 5 times, swap to WS build and WS then swap back.
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Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
i don't follow
so you do 5 hits in TP build
then swap to WS build, hit once, then ws?
so you do 5 hits in TP build
then swap to WS build, hit once, then ws?
The 'hit once' is your weaponskill. TP return on weaponskills for the first hit is identical to normal autoattacks.
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Asura.Andradi said:
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
i don't follow so you do 5 hits in TP build then swap to WS build, hit once, then ws?
Something something meditate something.
It's not foolproof, but it works 95% of the time.
It's not foolproof, but it works 95% of the time.
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Sylph.Kimble said:
Hmmm My TP:
He doesn't have a true 6hit build though. (6hit/5hit rebuild)
To be more exact, he has a "7hit/5hit rebuild."
I had actually pointed this out to Elanabelle, in another thread.
All he needs is one more StoreTP, and he can have a true 6hit build (6hit/5hit rebuild). Ecphoria ring would do it.
To be more exact, he has a "7hit/5hit rebuild."
I had actually pointed this out to Elanabelle, in another thread.
All he needs is one more StoreTP, and he can have a true 6hit build (6hit/5hit rebuild). Ecphoria ring would do it.
I had a feeling it might have been an *** backwards 6 hit due to the extra STP in the WS set but still, its not an idea way to go about it. He'll lose 1 acc to have a true 6 hit. You can say meditate fixes it, but 5% of the time, you will miss your WS.
Asura.Andradi said:
Something something meditate something.
It's not foolproof, but it works 95% of the time.
It's not foolproof, but it works 95% of the time.
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I could have made that more clear.
I meant SAM meditates before going into whatever so that will cover the initial store TP deficiency. After that, 5% of the time yes, missing weaponskills will break the X-hit. (Getting hit covers that but that's getting kind of ridiculous?.)
I meant SAM meditates before going into whatever so that will cover the initial store TP deficiency. After that, 5% of the time yes, missing weaponskills will break the X-hit. (Getting hit covers that but that's getting kind of ridiculous?.)
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Asura.Andradi said:
I could have made that more clear.
I meant SAM meditates before going into whatever so that will cover the initial store TP deficiency. After that, 5% of the time yes, missing weaponskills will break the X-hit. (Getting hit covers that but that's getting kind of ridiculous?.)
I meant SAM meditates before going into whatever so that will cover the initial store TP deficiency. After that, 5% of the time yes, missing weaponskills will break the X-hit. (Getting hit covers that but that's getting kind of ridiculous?.)
Is it really so hard to spend 10,000-20,000 gil to have a true 6 hit all at the loss of 1 acc though?
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Sylph.Kimble said:
I had a feeling it might have been an *** backwards 6 hit due to the extra STP in the WS set but still, its not an idea way to go about it. He'll lose 1 acc to have a true 6 hit. You can say meditate fixes it, but 5% of the time, you will miss your WS.
Which was exactly my point if you actually read what I have in my previous post's spoiler tags.
Whenever he misses a WS, which there will be at least a 5% chance of that happening at capped accuracy... then he would need 7hits to get back to 100% TP.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Asura.Andradi said:
Something something meditate something.
It's not foolproof, but it works 95% of the time.
It's not foolproof, but it works 95% of the time.
This is the other thing, Meditate would not fix the problem "all the time."
And the thing is that he is just 1 StoreTP short of a true 6hit. Switching to ecphoria ring would be more beneficial in this case.
@ Giazz
Question
at lvl 90 how do you think Sam/Drg would be with conserve tp + jumps?
Question
at lvl 90 how do you think Sam/Drg would be with conserve tp + jumps?
Sylph.Kimble said:
Asura.Andradi said:
I could have made that more clear.
I meant SAM meditates before going into whatever so that will cover the initial store TP deficiency. After that, 5% of the time yes, missing weaponskills will break the X-hit. (Getting hit covers that but that's getting kind of ridiculous?.)
I meant SAM meditates before going into whatever so that will cover the initial store TP deficiency. After that, 5% of the time yes, missing weaponskills will break the X-hit. (Getting hit covers that but that's getting kind of ridiculous?.)
Is it really so hard to spend 10,000-20,000 gil to have a true 6 hit all at the loss of 1 acc though?
I'd say dusk gloves and turban would be more pressing, but yes ecphoria should be used in this case.
I'm just used to working with the old limited selection of STP gear DRK used to have at 75... x-hit builds these days have so many more options.
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
@ Giazz
Question
at lvl 90 how do you think Sam/Drg would be with conserve tp + jumps?
Question
at lvl 90 how do you think Sam/Drg would be with conserve tp + jumps?
I have no idea what lv99, or lv90 for that matter, will be like. (what new abilities SE may decide to add etc.)
I could speculate...but I'd rather not...
But I suppose in regards to your question, the only thing new there(unless something else new comes along as well)is the conserve TP you gain with lv45 sub... well, it will be nice to have...but nothing game breaking.
To chime in on the SAM/DRG discussion, unless they add a Gekko v2 to compliment Fudo I can't imagine it being worth using over SAM/WAR in the future. Fudo is more like Kaiten in that it does not appear to receive a pDIF boost, so it will benefit immensely from Berserk. We're also getting better haste options as time goes on... though the AF3 legs are kind of a step backwards if they add more magic haste in the future (enhances Hasso effect is magic haste, go figure). Not getting the full benefit of Wyvern Earring reduces /DRG's impact significantly. Jumps are basically a wash in high haste scenarios due to JA delay, and Conserve TP is only significant if it saves you a hit to WS. With the current trend towards 5hit builds, that's not even going to happen because the maximum proc is 20 TP. You're getting more than that per TP phase swing, so you'd come up short to 100 TP.
Also, when fighting stuff where Gekko is even remotely relevant (which I doubt it is anymore if you have access to Fudo, it's that good) you're probably /NIN anyway.
Also, when fighting stuff where Gekko is even remotely relevant (which I doubt it is anymore if you have access to Fudo, it's that good) you're probably /NIN anyway.
Andradi is right.
I use more STP in my WS swing (AF+1 pants), and since a SAM is starting from zero TP only 5% of the time, that swing counts as one of the six hits in a functional 6-hit build.
I get exactly 100% TP from 1 attack in WS set + 5 swings in melee set.
I'm glad someone expanded on this topic at my expense so that Andradi could explain to others that your WS swing counts in calculating your StoreTP to achieve a "X-hit" build.
I never disagreed with Giazz that Ecphoria Ring is a useful tool and it does provide the 11th gear STP point to create a "true" 6-hit build with a 450 delay weapon. I do carry that ring, and will use it in some situations. It's kinda silly to assume that my ffxiah.com gear set pages contain ALL the equipment I carry with me. It's just a snapshot.
I use more STP in my WS swing (AF+1 pants), and since a SAM is starting from zero TP only 5% of the time, that swing counts as one of the six hits in a functional 6-hit build.
I get exactly 100% TP from 1 attack in WS set + 5 swings in melee set.
I'm glad someone expanded on this topic at my expense so that Andradi could explain to others that your WS swing counts in calculating your StoreTP to achieve a "X-hit" build.
I never disagreed with Giazz that Ecphoria Ring is a useful tool and it does provide the 11th gear STP point to create a "true" 6-hit build with a 450 delay weapon. I do carry that ring, and will use it in some situations. It's kinda silly to assume that my ffxiah.com gear set pages contain ALL the equipment I carry with me. It's just a snapshot.
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Andradi is right.
I use more STP in my WS swing (AF+1 pants), and since a SAM is starting from zero TP only 5% of the time, that swing counts as one of the six hits in a functional 6-hit build.
I get exactly 100% TP from 1 attack in WS set + 5 swings in melee set.
I'm glad someone expanded on this topic at my expense so that Andradi could explain to others that your WS swing counts in calculating your StoreTP to achieve a "X-hit" build.
I never disagreed with Giazz that Ecphoria Ring is a useful tool and it does provide the 11th gear STP point to create a "true" 6-hit build with a 450 delay weapon. I do carry that ring, and will use it in some situations. It's kinda silly to assume that my ffxiah.com gear set pages contain ALL the equipment I carry with me. It's just a snapshot.
I use more STP in my WS swing (AF+1 pants), and since a SAM is starting from zero TP only 5% of the time, that swing counts as one of the six hits in a functional 6-hit build.
I get exactly 100% TP from 1 attack in WS set + 5 swings in melee set.
I'm glad someone expanded on this topic at my expense so that Andradi could explain to others that your WS swing counts in calculating your StoreTP to achieve a "X-hit" build.
I never disagreed with Giazz that Ecphoria Ring is a useful tool and it does provide the 11th gear STP point to create a "true" 6-hit build with a 450 delay weapon. I do carry that ring, and will use it in some situations. It's kinda silly to assume that my ffxiah.com gear set pages contain ALL the equipment I carry with me. It's just a snapshot.
Whats silly is that you wouldn't just use your ring all the time. How often is that 1 acc going to be doing much?
Pretty sure we ALL know how to add your WS TP to your Melee TP. Just most people don't bother with an *** backwards 6 hit like that.
If you have the ring, why only use it when starting from 0 TP? At high acc (which sam should have anyways or really, be capped) that 1 acc will only add about .5% to your hit rate.
Seems pretty silly and *** backwards.
There's an old saying, Kimble:
"There's more than one way to skin a cat"
A lot of the FFXI community either doesn't realize this, or has forgotten this.
You can call my approach "*** backwards", and I can call your approach "conventional" or "mundane". It's irrelevant either way. We're both achieving the same thing via different methods.
"There's more than one way to skin a cat"
A lot of the FFXI community either doesn't realize this, or has forgotten this.
You can call my approach "*** backwards", and I can call your approach "conventional" or "mundane". It's irrelevant either way. We're both achieving the same thing via different methods.
[+]
There is more than one way to do things. Your way just happens to be the wrong way.
There is really no point in doing it the way you are, if you have the ring, use it correctly. Like I said, what are you gaining with 1 acc? Please answer that at least.
There is really no point in doing it the way you are, if you have the ring, use it correctly. Like I said, what are you gaining with 1 acc? Please answer that at least.
[+]
Sylph.Kimble said:
There is more than one way to do things. Your way just happens to be the wrong way.
There is really no point in doing it the way you are, if you have the ring, use it correctly. Like I said, what are you gaining with 1 acc? Please answer that at least.
There is really no point in doing it the way you are, if you have the ring, use it correctly. Like I said, what are you gaining with 1 acc? Please answer that at least.
What am I gaining with 1 acc?
1 acc.
There is no right way and wrong way. It's just opinion, taste, style, or whim.
[+]
Problem is you should be easily capped on most everything at 85 with no food, so that 1 accuracy isn't doing anything for you.
[+]
The phrase "There is more than one way to skin a cat" Is so ignorant I cant believe you would bring it to this argument.
Any logical person can understand that at the root of Any task or procedure, there is only one possible perfect way to do it. You might be able to skin a cat with a rusty spoon but why waste the time / effort when you have a Light-saber ( or I guess really sharp knife to be realistic.. )
Either way it is very clever of you to WS in more STP so that you can TP in less, and if you were a member of my shell I would actually find that amusing and never give you grief for it, but as people point out it is inferior, sometimes you will miss, or get your tp drained, or not start with over 100% and then you wont have a 6hit for one whole attack round. Which in the course of a whole dynamis or limbus run even Einherjar wont really take away from your overall dot that much.
Either way no reason to argue your build just keep using it, and for the love of god get rid of the askar helm.
Any logical person can understand that at the root of Any task or procedure, there is only one possible perfect way to do it. You might be able to skin a cat with a rusty spoon but why waste the time / effort when you have a Light-saber ( or I guess really sharp knife to be realistic.. )
Either way it is very clever of you to WS in more STP so that you can TP in less, and if you were a member of my shell I would actually find that amusing and never give you grief for it, but as people point out it is inferior, sometimes you will miss, or get your tp drained, or not start with over 100% and then you wont have a 6hit for one whole attack round. Which in the course of a whole dynamis or limbus run even Einherjar wont really take away from your overall dot that much.
Either way no reason to argue your build just keep using it, and for the love of god get rid of the askar helm.
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Phoenix.Deboro said:
The phrase "There is more than one way to skin a cat" Is so ignorant I cant believe you would bring it to this argument. Any logical person can understand that at the root of Any task or procedure, there is only one possible perfect way to do it. You might be able to skin a cat with a rusty spoon but why waste the time / effort when you have a Light-saber ( or I guess really sharp knife to be realistic.. ) Either way it is very clever of you to WS in more STP so that you can TP in less, and if you were a member of my shell I would actually find that amusing and never give you grief for it, but as people point out it is inferior, sometimes you will miss, or get your tp drained, or not start with over 100% and then you wont have a 6hit for one whole attack round. Which in the course of a whole dynamis or limbus run even Einherjar wont really take away from your overall dot that much. Either way no reason to argue your build just keep using it, and for the love of god get rid of the askar helm.
If 5 % of the time you're missing a hit and being reduced to a 7 hit build then:
5% of the time you have a 7 hit build, and 95% of the time you have a 5 hit build(only 5 hits after a WS).
Lets just use the delay 100 for the purpose of this representation.
100*5= 500 delay per WS with with the 6/5 hit
100*7= 700 delay per WS with the 7 hit.
Proportionally this would come out to:
100*5*.95 + 100*7*.05 = 510 Average Delay per WS
100*5*.95 + 100*6*.05= 505 Average Delay per WS.
505/510= 1% increase in overall speed with a true 6 hit.
This of course means that your WS damage will be about 1% higher using the 6 hit.
Lets apply this to damage. You kill fight 100 mobs and do 100,000 WS damage.
100,000 = 1%= 99,000. So basically you did one less mob worth of damage.
I don't think its worth arguing over. His build is not optimal but its not bad. If his build allows for an increase of more than 1% melee damage by not require as much STP gear on his TP set then he has made up the difference in his overall.
The reason this is a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE argument is all he will be losing in his TP set is 1 acc which, you should prob be at capped accuracy anyways on SAM.
Its not like he has to give up haste, str, attack, etc to give him a proper 6 hit so why not just do it? Why go out of your way to gimp your self? And by the sounds of it, he uses the ring when he misses or starts at 0 TP so why not just full time it?
Hell, the only reason I can see using perle over dusk gloves is for the movement down but if you are to lazy to just switch out hands when walking, then you should be to lazy to have to change out rings when at 0 TP.
Its not like he has to give up haste, str, attack, etc to give him a proper 6 hit so why not just do it? Why go out of your way to gimp your self? And by the sounds of it, he uses the ring when he misses or starts at 0 TP so why not just full time it?
Hell, the only reason I can see using perle over dusk gloves is for the movement down but if you are to lazy to just switch out hands when walking, then you should be to lazy to have to change out rings when at 0 TP.
[+]
DRK forums, yet a SAM argument. This thread sucks :)
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
There's an old saying, Kimble:
"There's more than one way to skin a cat"
A lot of the FFXI community either doesn't realize this, or has forgotten this.
You can call my approach "*** backwards", and I can call your approach "conventional" or "mundane". It's irrelevant either way. We're both achieving the same thing via different methods.
"There's more than one way to skin a cat"
A lot of the FFXI community either doesn't realize this, or has forgotten this.
You can call my approach "*** backwards", and I can call your approach "conventional" or "mundane". It's irrelevant either way. We're both achieving the same thing via different methods.
Wow, I can't believe this and the DRK merits Topic are still live and kickin'
Looks like SE hit the spot with the ton new gear they added
Looks like SE hit the spot with the ton new gear they added
Fenrir.Mankey said:
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
There's an old saying, Kimble: "There's more than one way to skin a cat" A lot of the FFXI community either doesn't realize this, or has forgotten this. You can call my approach "*** backwards", and I can call your approach "conventional" or "mundane". It's irrelevant either way. We're both achieving the same thing via different methods.
Oh so if you can pass a class in college with a C its the same as passing it with an A?
Oh so if you can buy a watch for $100 but choose to pay $105 for the same watch at the same store then that's the same thing?
Your argument is "If I can accomplish X then I'm doing it right"
My argument would be: "If I am accomplishing X in such a way that diminishes the value of Y then I accomplishing less than if I had accomplished X without diminishing Y."
That's like saying Oh, I saved $10 on water but I overpaid $20 for electric; I'm saving money.
Edit: I'm starting to see why liberals like obama
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