Make Paladin Great Again

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Make Paladin Great Again
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By Fayona 2019-09-24 04:34:02
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By Shichishito 2019-12-01 05:36:06
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December brings along with it the monthly updates to Ambuscade and job adjustments for paladins and dark knights.
aren't you guys excited PLD is about to be great (again[was it ever?])?
 
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By 2019-12-01 05:45:07
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By Nariont 2019-12-01 08:12:24
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Shichishito said: »
aren't you guys excited PLD is about to be great (again[was it ever?])?

given how bst/nins been handled, i expect at best a good laugh, but it will probably be more like schs and add nothing really needed for the job
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2019-12-01 08:19:27
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Shichishito said: »
Quote:
December brings along with it the monthly updates to Ambuscade and job adjustments for paladins and dark knights.
aren't you guys excited PLD is about to be great (again[was it ever?])?
Paladin was pretty damn great starting with Ochain's introduction (and Aegis becoming more available to the standard player) up until Rune Fencer's buffs around early-mid Adoulin. That's a good number of years.
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By Felgarr 2019-12-01 08:26:29
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I'm expecting: "We've reduced the decay for Enlight II Damage. Please enjoy it."

I'm already pre-emptively triggered. I hate the suspense, anctipation and what will probably be mediocrity. (>_<)
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By Taint 2019-12-01 08:36:03
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Shichishito said: »
Quote:
December brings along with it the monthly updates to Ambuscade and job adjustments for paladins and dark knights.
aren't you guys excited PLD is about to be great (again[was it ever?])?
Paladin was pretty damn great starting with Ochain's introduction (and Aegis becoming more available to the standard player) up until Rune Fencer's buffs around early-mid Adoulin. That's a good number of years.


Not sure I agree. We tanked most endgame with DRKs and SAMs starting around 2008. PLD were around as safety nets and for holding adds more than anything. No PLD was holding hate off a good DRK. This was mostly /NIN since mobs hit like trucks compared to available gear.

Ixion we used PLD. Tiamat was DRK and PLD cotanks. Khim DRK, Cerb DRK, Odin2 SAMs.

PLD has been fundamentally bad from the start, it just took years for players to understand that.
 Asura.Wormfeeder
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2019-12-01 08:37:27
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Will Probably give Paladin native provoke, and giggle when we see it and complain.
 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2019-12-01 08:40:11
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Until they give PLD Gambit and Rayke, it's a useless job..

The only way PLD can make a comeback is if they give it an ability that can cap hate and maintain hate through a long melee zerg where other DPS are at maximum DPS output.. Until this is done RUN can and will do the job better..

Our RUNs do everything even Super Tank better than PLD.. I see no point in the job at all if you have an HQ Epeo RUN.. ..
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By Nariont 2019-12-01 08:41:27
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Taint said: »
PLD has been fundamentally bad from the start

Wasnt this more a problem with how easy it became to cap hate in a properly buffed scenerio ontop of how crap def was for the longest time making the diff between a pld getting hit and a dd fairly minor outside of obvious shield blocks?
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By Taint 2019-12-01 09:55:35
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Nariont said: »
Taint said: »
PLD has been fundamentally bad from the start

Wasnt this more a problem with how easy it became to cap hate in a properly buffed scenerio ontop of how crap def was for the longest time making the diff between a pld getting hit and a dd fairly minor outside of obvious shield blocks?


Yep. PLDs shield helped with keeping shadows up until players go good at ichi timing to the point that blocks had little left to offer.
 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2019-12-01 10:40:48
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Shichishito said: »
Quote:
December brings along with it the monthly updates to Ambuscade and job adjustments for paladins and dark knights.
aren't you guys excited PLD is about to be great (again[was it ever?])?
Paladin was pretty damn great starting with Ochain's introduction (and Aegis becoming more available to the standard player) up until Rune Fencer's buffs around early-mid Adoulin. That's a good number of years.

Well, except that PLD barely belonged in mid-late Abyssea. In Voidwatch it was only 'good' so someone was tanking it while DD's popped stuff. In early Delve, we could hold a half or whole zone (sometimes with one or two bosses, depending on mechanics). But we couldn't hold anything people were actually hitting.

At PLD's peak in style and functionality, enmity was broken.

It's beyond absurd that they haven't found a way to fix enmity, and I will never understand why content-level matters in emnity's formulas at all.
 
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By 2019-12-01 11:03:47
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By Nariont 2019-12-01 11:56:49
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Valefor.Omnys said: »
It's beyond absurd that they haven't found a way to fix enmity

Honestly think enmity as it stands is fine, if anything id like there to be more -enm options a DD can equip, between that, dirge, and /drg its a deal easier to keep hate manageable. Wish theyd just make it a sweeping change ot all content rather than tie it to ilvl targets as you said though
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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2019-12-01 13:30:46
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You guys need to think differently because functionally the Old Pld shouldn't exist anymore.

Imagine a super ideal old school Pld who would be invincible against everything and can hold infinite hate. The game would then become the whole party fighting against a wall and deal with AOE. There wouldn't be much if anything the dev can do to make the game more interesting.

There is no way they will make Pld take better damage or get higher emnity. At best they would tinker with it a bit but nothing would change much because they would just write themselves into a corner with the power creep going.

What's left would be getting inspiration from the classics. These stuff came from DnD pld but probably usable with FFXI

+Smite Undead by dealing extra damage plus accuracy against undead
+Immune to diseases, virus, zombie effects
+Immune to terror and has terror resist aura
+Immune to Death spells
+Immune to petrification
+Can cure diseases, curses.
+Can use cast Curaga spells
+Raised into full HP and MP
+Can cast Arise
+Can forcefully banish summoned avatar and prevents summons
+Adds Chr into Mnd spells and resistance.
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By Ozaii 2019-12-01 15:58:31
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I say they should make pld more focused around covers. And give it a couple covers that instead of being just single target non aoe. Make them aoe covers. One physical cover. One magical. And make them eat aoes. Put them on valliances cooldown and duration. Pld should be the wall that protects its team. Give them some foil or a divine magic based spell. Or something to help with super tanking. Enmity on multiple mobs. And adjust atonements damage or something to be like 10x the enmity multiplier. Bam. Job is useful again cuz it now lets dds use full tp sets with much less worry.
 Asura.Kusamotu
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By Asura.Kusamotu 2019-12-01 16:02:37
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Make atonement AOE (and also suck less)
 
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By Bahamut.Newzarb 2019-12-02 02:33:17
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Make atonement self-targeted WS (to generate enmity ?) so PLDs can use TP without ruining skillchains.
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By ashcrow 2019-12-02 04:26:49
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Bahamut.Newzarb said: »
Make atonement self-targeted WS (to generate enmity ?) so PLDs can use TP without ruining skillchains.

No that would make Burtgang Rank 15 a must have.
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By Felgarr 2019-12-02 07:14:43
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ashcrow said: »
Bahamut.Newzarb said: »
Make atonement self-targeted WS (to generate enmity ?) so PLDs can use TP without ruining skillchains.

No that would make Burtgang Rank 15 a must have.

Yes, Abso-***-lutely.

No disrespect, but why do folks want job updates, new content and ability enhancements, but at the end of the day, WANT NOTHING to be MUST HAVE?

Look, how is Burtgang being today a sorta-must-have, or as a future-must-have different from an Epeo RUN TODAY? Come on.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-12-02 09:00:44
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DirectX said: »
Asura.Kusamotu said: »
uote&nbsp;|&nbsp;Reply&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;Report&nbsp;|&nbsp;Score:&nbsp;0&nbsp;+
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Make atonement AOE (and also suck less)
Doesn't hitting mobs ruin super tanking?

Super tanking doesn't require hate management at all. Since hate can't be pulled off of the super tank.

But for situations where you have to have hate on multiple targets (ambuscade for example), one of the weaknesses pld has is AoE hate generation
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By Felgarr 2019-12-02 09:12:18
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
DirectX said: »
Asura.Kusamotu said: »
uote&nbsp;|&nbsp;Reply&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;Report&nbsp;|&nbsp;Score:&nbsp;0&nbsp;+
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Make atonement AOE (and also suck less)
Doesn't hitting mobs ruin super tanking?

Super tanking doesn't require hate management at all. Since hate can't be pulled off of the super tank.

But for situations where you have to have hate on multiple targets (ambuscade for example), one of the weaknesses pld has is AoE hate generation

Lowering the recast of Reprisal to match Foil, might help PLD in that regard.
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By Zalama 2019-12-02 09:47:52
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All pld needs is foil and atonement to do a base line of 20k or something..and its good to go
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By FaeQueenCory 2019-12-02 11:41:15
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Felgarr said: »
Lowering the recast of Reprisal to match Foil, might help PLD in that regard.
Reprisal's base enmity is 640 (VE only), while Foil's is 1200 (880VE/320CE).
Even at the same base recast, the lack of CE (the one that's more stable to grow) makes it a poor choice for hate building, as in 10s it'll be zero'd out. (not to mention how its limit based on HP and its spike and block rate boost make it not something that feels right to spam.)

Just giving PLD Foil would be fine. Not like PLD has the evasion to really make worthwhile use of it like RUN does outside of just the enmity. (Unless I'm mistaken and it's a Migawari effect... but I'm pretty sure it's just an evasion boost against TP moves similar to Bar-status spells for enfeebles.)
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By Nariont 2019-12-02 11:43:20
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or just transfer the VE/CE that foil has over to reprisal and lower its recast to match if they feel foil should be a run only thing
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By FaeQueenCory 2019-12-02 11:51:29
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Or..... just give PLD Flashga (pretty sure it's in the game already).

And maybe unlock Campaign WSs. I vaguely recall that Uriel's Blade acts like a flashga in addition the the Damage::CE::VE.
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By Nariont 2019-12-02 11:59:59
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No no, we cant just give pld a natural aoe hate tool, thad be unfair to run, but yes flashga would be nice to have
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By FaeQueenCory 2019-12-02 14:36:50
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An easy "fix" then:
Give PLD Flashga.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-12-02 14:41:18
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Do you guys not realize that PLD is good enough at enmity and survival. The only thing that keeps it from being used is that RUN has debuffs has (better)party buffs and is a DD that just happens to be unkillable.

Sub blu for all intents and purposes they're identical. As a super tank, as a single target tank, as /blu aoe holder, they're interchangeable.

Doing anything to the 2 things it's already adequate at, accomplishes nothing. No amount of shield skill, enmity+ , new spells/ja's are really going to do anything. To have any affect at all it needs a complete rework (not just the job, the game) Or obviously, nerf run, but apparently that's off the table these days and broken is the norm.
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