[Dev] Probability Of Treasure Hunter Rising

Kincard's post sums up my position. It's an irrelevant point to argue either way as the effect is not a big deal, and berating someone over it is nonsensical.

Why is a THF contributing to damage in legion? Why is a THF recieving buffs in legion? What are you doing?

What about farming ADL sets? THF SCH BRD DD demolishes a camp. You're waiting on repops without enough time to realistically run over to the next camp. Your knife is doing essentially nothing.

How about behemoth/fafnir/etc? Sure, you can say a 5 min fight instead of a 6.5 minute fight is a decent difference. However, consider the value of the trigger. You're not actually comparing 5 minutes to 6.5 minutes, you're comparing ~1h(if you make a mil/h, adjust for your personal income) and 10 minutes running out and 5 minutes baseline killing. So for 1 fafnir/behemoth, that's 76.5 minutes instead of 75. For 2, it's 84 min instead of 81. You're not saving nearly as much time when there's anything besides the fight at hand invested.

If your legion/ADL/etc win comes down to THF damage, by all means, use your real weapon. Otherwise, the time efficiency argument dies when you hit the availability wall.

Using it in solo dynamis is clearly wrong, but everyone is bandwagonning against it when in reality it's the more practical option for many situations.

I stopped reading when "contributing damage" was used in the context of THF in Legion.

lol, but this part:


should've been changed to using a real DD.

Actually, that was kind of my point, that even the random bits of damage a thief will output in legion will likely outweigh whatever pitiful amount of drop rate TK actually adds. If extra TH is extra TH, then extra damage is extra damage.

The main point here is that TH+1 is such a small increase that it is effectively doing nothing. In that light, it might actually be more useful to replace the THF with a real DD as mentioned and have someone either sub THF or have a RNG.

^That. I didn't find it very difficult to interpret, and it's pretty much the way it is. Defending something that's basically worthless vs. something that's equally worthless if not slightly superior is pretty derp, especially when the defense is immediately on offense.

defense is... on... whatever.

Stat that's not been properly tested, but clearly states its purpose is now being compared to THF's legion damage. Got it.

0.5% droprate on duplus grip has an effective value of 150k. What's the legion run's total value, and what's the probability your thief's damage will save the run? Right, there we go.

I completely disagree with your reasoning. (@Proth + Kincard)

If you're bringing a THF to certain events, the whole point is for Treasure Hunter. No one gives a ***about the damage you're doing and it's inconsequential anyway.

Why would you not optimize your ability to upgrade Treasure Hunter when the whole point of you being there is to provide Treasure Hunter?

Because the "optimization" is as inconsequential as the damage increase.

They must have forgotten that THF sub still gets the almighty TH2 at much less sacrifice. If you can invalidate a point due to the knife in favor of THF's minimal damage, why not invalidate everything else in favor of having another real DD and a WHM/THF(or SMN/THF if you still use SMNs).

Because that was, in fact, mentioned. SMN/THF and another real DD would likely be more effective for your overall legion run's value than the extra est. 3~5% drop rate from TH6~8

If i had to wager a educated Guess, I'd say its probably higher than 0.5%.

Just. Saying.

We can pull numbers out of our a**es all day and act like we have a clue what we're talking about, and lets not kid ourselves, thats what all of you are doing. False Bravado. (Me too, Honestly <3)

But in clear, concise reality, TH is still at its core a mystery to us as to how its specifics work. The bonuses from TH6 to TH7 Is highly unknown outside of "Well, It does something better right?", and All test show anything past TH3-4 Is essentially inconsequential due to its very low estimated impact on Drop rates.

While I do not consider THF a true DD despite my love for the job, I would say If a THF is in Legion, He should have TH6 (Hands/Feet) And try to DD as best he can. I'd also wager the Killspeed gained from a THF Actually doing DD Instead of being a Token TH *** with a Knife, Glove, and Boots equipped nakid shooting bolts will in a large scheme of legion, (I.E Multiple Runs) will lead to More Kills/Chances at Drops than an Extra 1 TH could ever do.

Rather this holds true for a Mandau THF vs a Token TH *** who has adequate gear? I'd believe it would.

Its Speculation, But this is a Speculative argument, No side has any more ground to stand on then the other. So I don't assert my opinion as fact, Simply as such stated, opinion.

Edit: And In Reality I'm not completely without understanding as to your side of the argument. If you're there to TH, TH, Right? Well, I'm applying the same logic some do in Dynamis, Where Killspeed > Gained Benefits of TH+1. No one has any solid tests on this, So it cannot as such be dismissed as wrong until tested.

Like Prothescar said, I'm not here to advocate THF being a good DD, I'm just here to say that keeping TK around for TH+1 is just as worthless (if not moreso) as having a THF DDing.


Actually, that's exactly what I proposed.

OK, so we're all in agreement that THF is worthless. That's a table I can put my feet up on.

I was being satirical.

If your shell spams legion nonstop and never afks to make food/deal with kids/drop a deuce/answer the phone between runs/etc. then I'd definitely support mage/thf and an extra DD. Realistically, DD are limitted by #/party slots recieving buffs and downtime between runs will generally result in the same number of completed runs regardless of that extra DD or not.

It's far too idealistic to assume that one tiny swap will result in an extra run or relevant amount of time saved. The increased loot WILL add up over time, no matter how minimal.

Someone is free to show a THF parse representing a worthwhile dps contribution in Legion from the reject party, though.

Pfft, you're acting as if finishing the run faster so I can go drop my deuce sooner for 0.5% less drops is somehow not a very worthwhile trade. Really, assuming the TH drop rate increase is going to affect you personally (or even your linkshell) over time, given what we know, is being just as idealistic.

I'm reasonably sure that the difference either way is so minor that we've all lost more time posting about it than we possibly could have saved by choosing one option or the other.

yeah, pretty much

Was anyone doing anything productive anyhow? ^^;

That's what I've been saying the whole time :C

Yes :|
http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/

Assuming 3-5%(not sure source, but Prothescar said it) will effect anyone over time in an event that takes 30 minutes and can be spammed infinitely is idealistic? I can't say I agree, that's essentially a free run every 33 if it's 3-5 relative. If it's additive, even 1% would be enormous for the rarer drops...

I said estimated. Based off of the data that we currently have, which is insubstantial, but if it were much higher we'd have seen it with the data that's currently collected.

A free run every 33 could easily be translated over to the other side as well. For the last time, it's irrelevant both ways, and using offensive tactics in a war against 2 sides of a brick wall is stupid.

Do THFs even do 2% of the damage in a Legion run?

Irrelevant. The point has never been the difference between a THF's contribution and a DD that's already in Legion's contribution, it's been the difference between an extra miniscule boost to drop rates and damage output from the thief, OR the addition of a new DD in place of a thief's contribution compared to the miniscule boost to drop rates.

They're all so close together in their minute bonuses that it's completely worthless arguing strongly for any of them and being so militant about it.

No, it actually does matter. Swapping to TK reduces your DPS by a set amount. The less damage you're doing in the first place, the less you lose by switching your offhand to TH+1, and the more you gain comparatively by getting +X% to your drop rate.

Entertainment value. Can fault militant nature, but some people are more abrasive than others. If you don't find it interesting/relevant, why continue to tell us it doesn't matter and act as if you know it's impact better than everyone else?

The entire reason I posted to begin with was unnecessary abrasiveness. From there it's spiraled into the relevancy of negligible things vs negligible things for reasons that I doubt I'll ever be able to fathom.