23% Haste Reckoning +1 VS. 26% Haste Apoc

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2010-09-08
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23% Haste Reckoning +1 VS. 26% Haste Apoc
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 Bahamut.Aiyana
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By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-10-14 01:24:17
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Asura.Vyre said:

Also I don't know who this Kirschy is, but I don't like the fact that so many people hold her opinion or research in such high esteem. Especially when said people have all the same resources to pull from and know all of the equations. Maybe someone could lol hard at me and enlighten me as to why my ignorance may as well be stupidity?
Maybe because Kirschy is the resources to pull from in many things in this game. She's personally tested so much in the game and is the reason things like haste being in terms of x/1024 is known as it is. She basically tested all the haste data frame by frame, etc.

Simplified. Kirschy is the person who helped to write those equations so that everyone else can use them.
 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2010-10-14 01:31:36
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Asura.Vyre said:
Also I don't know who this Kirschy is, but I don't like the fact that so many people hold her opinion or research in such high esteem. Especially when said people have all the same resources to pull from and know all of the equations. Maybe someone could lol hard at me and enlighten me as to why my ignorance may as well be stupidity?
Maybe because Kirschy is the resources to pull from in many things in this game. She's personally tested so much in the game and is the reason things like haste being in terms of x/1024 is known as it is. She basically tested all the haste data frame by frame, etc.
Ah, well, I suppose that would be a good reason. Well more power to her then. I'm still going to explore for myself, and get laughed at as much as anyone would like to. Time to get back to my silly usage of all 9 weapons Warrior can master! Huzzah! And thanks for the answer Tiger.
 Fenrir.Kirschy
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By Fenrir.Kirschy 2010-10-14 01:33:18
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This two year old picture proves I'm a taru :(
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-10-14 01:34:52
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I am bested :(

On a sidenote, do you ever find use for your Liberator?
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 Fenrir.Kirschy
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By Fenrir.Kirschy 2010-10-14 01:43:36
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
I am bested :(

On a sidenote, do you ever find use for your Liberator?

Honestly I just use it when casting the occasional Nether Void Absorb-Stat. As much as I would love to have the Lv85 version, I just can't dedicate the time to it right now =/. I'm hoping that they make the trials easier in the future. (Being able to do the trial with another Liberator user doesn't exactly help when I'm the only Liberator holder on Fenrir.)

I feel pretti bad for completing the initial weapon, and not following through with the trials since I think it's gotten some much needed upgrades (DMG + AM duration extension).
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By 2010-10-14 02:09:17
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 Bahamut.Aiyana
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By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-10-14 02:10:16
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Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
How many weaponskills does a drk need to miss to become emo?

None cuz the drk missed them all and is emo always 8(

2004.
 
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 Asura.Andradi
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By Asura.Andradi 2010-10-14 05:21:19
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Disregarding all the *** in this thread, talking about 'dream builds' and such that might possible beat apoc, why even consider Reckoning when the OAT can be reasonably easily 5-hit (it's not a true hit build, but who cares when you're using guillotine?) for this sort of thing. 24% haste in this one.

 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 10:12:02
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So basically this entire thread was for nothing because tiger couldnt read. Regardless of what is currently best now, the argument was that STR is superior to attack. I think we've proven that that is a fact. I know some of you are too mentally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and proud to admit you were wrong (tiger) but I forgive you.

I also like how I get called a troll even though in this entire thread I was the only person who used any facts. Brings once again back to this quote:

"It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it hath it not."

-Jeremy Taylor.

 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 10:30:45
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If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more.

It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway.
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 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 10:35:57
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Bahamut.Serj said:
If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway.

Uhh no. To cap ATk now you use food + buffs, to cap FSTR you use atma. Stacking either now is foolish and once again you're leading this down to an irrelevant debate just like tiger did because you didn't actually read anything :/
 Fenrir.Queazy
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By Fenrir.Queazy 2010-10-14 10:37:50
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Fenrir.Kirschy said:
This two year old picture proves I'm a taru :(

Lies, u picked the wrong race! admit it! Taru for life son.

Anyway gradd this thread is all for nothing cuz it all stopped at gradd's words "I used Mankey's Apoc Dark for such and such" We all kno mankey pretty gimp, put him back in is pokeball :)
 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 10:37:51
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Phoenix.Excelior said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway.

Uhh no. To cap ATk now you use food + buffs, to cap FSTR you use atma. Stacking either now is foolish and once again you're leading this down to an irrelevant debate just like tiger did because you didn't actually read anything :/

Exactly my *** point? Pull your head out of your ***.
 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 10:40:05
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Bahamut.Serj said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway.
Uhh no. To cap ATk now you use food + buffs, to cap FSTR you use atma. Stacking either now is foolish and once again you're leading this down to an irrelevant debate just like tiger did because you didn't actually read anything :/
Exactly my *** point? Pull your head out of your ***.

So you're stating the obvious which wasn't even a point that was being debated? Thank you for giving me a firm grasp of the obvious; the sun is bright.
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 10:42:57
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Phoenix.Excelior said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway.
Uhh no. To cap ATk now you use food + buffs, to cap FSTR you use atma. Stacking either now is foolish and once again you're leading this down to an irrelevant debate just like tiger did because you didn't actually read anything :/
Exactly my *** point? Pull your head out of your ***.

So you're stating the obvious which wasn't even a point that was being debated? Thank you for giving me a firm grasp of the obvious; the sun is bright.

I was reinforcing the fact that you're being a total idiot arguing against everyone about something that isn't entirely true.

Then again, you keep making a further *** out of yourself just by posting.
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 10:45:47
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Bahamut.Serj said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
Bahamut.Serj said:
If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway.
Uhh no. To cap ATk now you use food + buffs, to cap FSTR you use atma. Stacking either now is foolish and once again you're leading this down to an irrelevant debate just like tiger did because you didn't actually read anything :/
Exactly my *** point? Pull your head out of your ***.
So you're stating the obvious which wasn't even a point that was being debated? Thank you for giving me a firm grasp of the obvious; the sun is bright.
I was reinforcing the fact that you're being a total idiot arguing against everyone about something that isn't entirely true. Then again, you keep making a further *** out of yourself just by posting.

SO you dont think STR is > attack? Even though point for point it obviously is.
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 10:47:43
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Excluding situations that are extremely prevalent to almost any situation in game currently? Are you high?

Nice ninja edit. Why exclude atmas to any situation now? Gearing up for colibri parties at 75 isn't the cool thing to do anymore.
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 10:48:48
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Bahamut.Serj said:
Excluding situations that are extremely prevalent to almost any situation in game currently? Are you high?

The original context of this debate was not on current situations. If we were talking about current situations we wouldnt be talking about STR or ATK. IF you had read anything in this thread you would know what context we're talking about. The fact you didn't read is now why you're arguing something that everyone knows.
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 10:51:03
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You're the one who keeps pulling the "context of the thread" card when the thread has obviously shifted. You keep trying to justify your retardation through any means. Stating something and being called out on it and pulling out any mean you can to redeem yourself makes you look like an idiot.
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 11:00:36
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Bahamut.Serj said:
You're the one who keeps pulling the "context of the thread" card when the thread has obviously shifted. You keep trying to justify your retardation through any means. Stating something and being called out on it and pulling out any mean you can to redeem yourself makes you look like an idiot.

Your original quote:

"If you're capping fstr, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more. If you're capping atk, it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE to stack more.

It's situational, "str > atk" isn't total truth. I'd say it's easier to cap fstr on most stuff than it is to cap atk on it nowadays, anyway"

That implys that you think STR is easier to cap than attack. I fully agree with you. In the original context, which is what you're attempting to address because that's exactly what I addressed in the post above yours, STR was not easier to cap than attack.

So I said:

Uhh no. To cap ATk now you use food + buffs, to cap FSTR you use atma. Stacking either now is foolish and once again you're leading this down to an irrelevant debate just like tiger did because you didn't actually read anything :/

I know reverted back to the same context as you because you were out of context with my original statement.

You then said:

Exactly my *** point? Pull your head out of your ***.

Which means that you still didn't realize that there were two contexts in this debate and you assumed I was ignoring the "past" and the "present" end game.

SO I said:

So you're stating the obvious which wasn't even a point that was being debated? Thank you for giving me a firm grasp of the obvious; the sun is bright.

Which shifts us back to the "Present" end game context which was never being debated to begin with. Your statement woudl be equivalent to going into a civil war debate and saying that the North beat the South. You completely missed the point.

So you then said:

"I was reinforcing the fact that you're being a total idiot arguing against everyone about something that isn't entirely true.

Then again, you keep making a further *** out of yourself just by posting."

This implys that once again you failed to see the original context. Back before atma and level 85 cap it was not realistic to cap FSTR, and it was realistic to cap attack. This was the entire point of the STR >ATK debate. You clearly didn't read that.

So i said:

"SO you dont think STR is > attack? Even though point for point it obviously is."

You failed to see the context here was not in any situation, it was a blanket statement saying STR IS ALWAYS POINT FOR POINT BETTER THAN ATTACK. You disagreed and that confuses me because it is obviously better point for point.

So you said:

"Excluding situations that are extremely prevalent to almost any situation in game currently? Are you high?

Nice ninja edit. Why exclude atmas to any situation now? Gearing up for colibri parties at 75 isn't the cool thing to do anymore."

This shows that once again you're out of context wtih teh original debate. In answer to your question;

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU AND NEVER ONCE SAID I DIDNT AGREE IN THE CONTEXT OF CURRENT SITUATIONS WITH ATMA. HOWEVER THAT CONTEXT WAS IRRELEVANT TO THE ORIGINAL DEBATE WHICH WAS PURELY ON THE MERITS OF USING STR OVER ATTACK BEFORE ATMA.
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 11:02:13
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THEN WHY ARE WE ARGUING!!!!!!!!
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 11:03:05
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Bahamut.Serj said:
THEN WHY ARE WE ARGUING!!!!!!!!

I DONT *** KNOW BUT APPERENTLY IT WAS A MISSCOMMUNICATION!!!!!!!!
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 11:04:17
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APPARENTLY, AND WHY ARE WE USING CAP-LOCKS???
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 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 11:04:51
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Stop yelling serj, have some self control <3
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 11:05:14
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T_T
 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2010-10-14 11:06:16
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Anyway, I think that cleared up the thread nicely.
 Bahamut.Drevin
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By Bahamut.Drevin 2010-10-14 11:08:47
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ya'll 'tarded >_>
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-14 11:09:19
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Bahamut.Serj said:
Anyway, I think that cleared up the thread nicely.

Most likely the entire thread a misscommunication because tiger was completely out of context as well. The difference is he felt the need to insult people while debating something that wasn't being debated. Which is why I made the comment about him being an *** and idiot.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-10-14 11:18:09
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Phoenix.Excelior said:
The 23% haste build could never beat apoc. If you get to 25% haste you might be able to do comparable damage. you have to realize that the melee damage on apoc is massive though. I don't think reckoning's 16.7% increase in WS rate will overtake apocalypse's massive boost to melee damage.

I agree with Gradd. The 20% ws freq increase over a 6hit apoc would pull miles ahead. D rating isn't as important here, since it's less impressive the higher the D goes. Of course I haven't yet factored the double DMG proc, but it's not enough to beat the WS freq by any means. 5hit Apoc though is another story.

Edit: Typo
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