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Do you get paid to do Dynamis, mess up and still complain ?
 Ramuh.Urial
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31068
By Ramuh.Urial 2010-05-16 11:52:15
Phoenix.Darki said: Bismarck.Dracondria said: Some linkshells keep a bank with money from more than 1 area, that's what I meant.
yeah, but thats where conflict starts like Kojo said. Not everyone is loyal to one linkshell all the time, just takes one little leech to get ToD or w/e from a main end game linkshell and scream it around.
Also, if you hold a linkshell bank for a main end game linkshell, still should pay fairly, not pay because overall events. Heck, not even everyone that has sky/dyna has limbus unlocked, so their logic to run a linkshell fails. They don't do limbus, so say the ls sells homam. Person w.o sea gets no money. Makes perfect sense.
 Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 11:52:19
Ramuh.Urial said: Phoenix.Darki said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Phoenix.Darki said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Sounds like Darki is the exact sort of person the OP was bitching about. A person who wants to put in half the time and get the same rewards as everyone else. Sorry but that's not reality, and you clearly have no concept of business economics.
I always viewed end game ls's as employers. If I put in 40 hours a week for my employer and you only put in 20 hours. Don't get pissed at me and the employer/linkshell because my paycheck is more than double what yours is. I put in more work than you did, I'm a more valuable asset to the company. Therefor I make more money per hour than you do. If you wanna be a part timer that's good and fine. Just don't be mad when you're treated like one.
These ppl were getting 150-200k a week for doing nothing but attending dyna, on top of any relic gear they got. I would be thrilled if a ls paid me 200k a week for attending 2 events. I cannot think of a single dyna ls on my server that pays out players at all in any way. Every player in that ls should be grateful they are getting gil out of it at all.
It's not that I want to put half the time, it's that I can't, and those are two different things, I am not even defending the fact that people leave and should get the same reward, if you've read right you should realize I'm defending the fact that some people can't make it to the events and be a slave of FFXI like most of you can, people have real life ***to deal with, and can't stay up till 12-1AM playing FFXI for some event, they have work/uni stuff? okey, and can't even make it to the runs too as a perfect attendance, it's just a game, not a job.
note: I am also fine with leaders giving me half the points/reward or w/e I'm going for if I leave early, I have already talked with all my ls leaders and I've let them know RL>GAME, if they don't like -too bad- I find other shell.
But if someone does dynamis in an EG linkshell and doesn't do the other events, and they make the full run that day that they went, they deserve the same reward as anybody else, they were there, they worked for it and put their piece, if they don't go to the other run, then they don't get anything, points/money etc. It is their call and leader shouldn't be penalizing for not going to other events, I mean, at the end of the day like previous poster said, you dont give ancient beastcoins to people who make dynamis runs, and give dynamis money to people who do limbus etc. That's just erratic and stupid.
1. I understand economics better than that, just a little detail, mother and father run their own buisness, mother at home-buisness and father a big company investor, I have been around economics since...eh, well, since I can remember,so ***either runs on economics two ways; you are fair, *or you piss over people.
*OP is pissing over people. perhaphs unintentionaly.
2 Bold. You can be part timer sure, but you still have rights to get paid the same amount a full timer does << now let me explain that, if you get paid let's say 1k/hr and you both do the same job, but you spend 10hours at work and part timer 5 hours, then part timer gets 5hours paid, and the one that did 10 hours gets paid 10 hours, so thats 10k for the 10 hours and 5k for the 5 hours.
So you do the harm to yourself, if you miss a run you don't get paid for it, if you go to the run you get paid for it and it's only fair you get paid the same amount because you put the same effort weather you go to other runs or not, you went to THAT one and should get paid for THAT one.
now i know you will just reply BS. so inb4 lulz.
I don't think you should be able to waltz in and get the same rewards as someone who has perfect attendance.
You obviously didn't read anything that I said, did you?
Let me resume it.
You do the harm to yourself if you don't go to two runs a week, you should get paid for the one you go to, but not penalized because you couldn't make the other, that's just being pissed over and being unfair, you went to a run, did the whole run, did your job <<< then you qualify to get paid for the same amount everyone else does.
you went to run, you leave early <<< then you should recieve half of it, because you worked half way.
It's not fair to go to a full run and get paid half because you didn't go to the other, or let's say, your leader just puts togehter the money he got for the 2 runs a week he did? if he did then yes you should recieve half, otherwise if he is paying per run, then no, you deserve your share like everyone else, and whoever doesn't agree to this are just being greedy *** that can be on the game all the time and are just angry other people can't and actually have things to-do on real life.
thats how I see it, dont like my opinion? I don't care.
Well your opinion is wrong, but whatever.
My opinion is wrong to you because your too stupid to make the math, or infact, you already made it and realized it's fair, and since fair doesn't really sound GOOD to you, you just feel like shunning it off.
So again, can't judge people for being stupid, but boohooo too bad for those that don't understand how economics really do work and make it fair for themselves. But whatever, if it's unfair and it benefits you, you dont care right? because your getting the benefit of others work. More for you, less for them right?
Greed is disgusting. I just want to say, the way the shell is run it looks like currency is used to pay people for attending every events. The reward for doing Dyna is the AF. In that case he doesn't have to give them ***. Stop trying to defend lazy people.
ok so you are saying, that the currency should all go to leaders simply because they run the shell? You forget the fact that with out members no leaders. a fair system splits the profits like they should be split. I'm not defending lazy people, I am defending people with real lives here. but eh too much to ask from a MMO where people spend uhhh 70hours a week playing, and those are the types that screw over people... heck, they even probably on real life leech off someone aswell to also be able to spend those 70 hours online. It's just greedy people.
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 11:53:57
Bismarck.Dracondria said: I never said you ran one, doesn't mean you might not be in a bad one.
lol why am i in a bad one? because it's actually fair that splits profits as they should be? and not *** over some members and reward others most?
Yeahhhh. Seems to me like you are all just greedy.
Phoenix.Darki
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Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 11:54:21
btw this thread finaly got hott.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-16 11:54:46
Darki, stop pulling the real life card.
If you put less time into something you deserve less rewards, regardless as to the reason.
The rewards shouldn't suddenly change for someone who couldn't do a run due to life commitments.
If you want more from the game put more hours in, if you can't put the hours in you don't deserve as much as people who do put the hours in.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-16 11:55:28
So in your opinion:
someone who is to lazy to go to one run should get the same rewards as someone who goes to every run?
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-16 11:55:31
ITT: Reasons why I don't do end game.
Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2010-05-16 11:55:57
Phoenix.Darki said:
ok so you are saying, that the currency should all go to leaders simply because they run the shell? You forget the fact that with out members no leaders. a fair system splits the profits like they should be split. I'm not defending lazy people, I am defending people with real lives here. but eh too much to ask from a MMO where people spend uhhh 70hours a week playing, and those are the types that screw over people... heck, they even probably on real life leech off someone aswell to also be able to spend those 70 hours online. It's just greedy people.
Are you borderline HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE?
If you don't contribute you don't get paid. That's what I said. That is how my shell works. People love it. They understand that if they don't make the full run they don't get a payday point. It's their own fault. Nowhere in there did I say ***about officers. You really need to read sentences better dumbass. And while I'm at it if you don't want to be serious about endgame don't join a ls that takes it seriously.
Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-16 11:56:23
So wait, I have a question. Do you get pay outs from the other events you do as well?
From what I can gather, they only went to 1/4th of the events in the LS, and you pay out after dynamis for ALL events, not just that dynamis run. So basically they only do 1/4th of the work of full members, but get paid 1/2 of what other members get?
If thats the case, seems like they are getting more than they deserve anyways.
Do you so 2x dynamis per week or only one?
Gilgamesh.Tirantus
Server: Gilgamesh
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By Gilgamesh.Tirantus 2010-05-16 11:56:33
Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Sounds like Darki is the exact sort of person the OP was bitching about. A person who wants to put in half the time and get the same rewards as everyone else. Sorry but that's not reality, and you clearly have no concept of business economics.
I always viewed end game ls's as employers. If I put in 40 hours a week for my employer and you only put in 20 hours. Don't get pissed at me and the employer/linkshell because my paycheck is more than double what yours is. I put in more work than you did, I'm a more valuable asset to the company. Therefor I make more money per hour than you do. If you wanna be a part timer that's good and fine. Just don't be mad when you're treated like one.
These ppl were getting 150-200k a week for doing nothing but attending dyna, on top of any relic gear they got. I would be thrilled if a ls paid me 200k a week for attending 2 events. I cannot think of a single dyna ls on my server that pays out players at all in any way. Every player in that ls should be grateful they are getting gil out of it at all.
It's not that I want to put half the time, it's that I can't, and those are two different things, I am not even defending the fact that people leave and should get the same reward, if you've read right you should realize I'm defending the fact that some people can't make it to the events and be a slave of FFXI like most of you can, people have real life ***to deal with, and can't stay up till 12-1AM playing FFXI for some event, they have work/uni stuff? okey, and can't even make it to the runs too as a perfect attendance, it's just a game, not a job.
note: I am also fine with leaders giving me half the points/reward or w/e I'm going for if I leave early, I have already talked with all my ls leaders and I've let them know RL>GAME, if they don't like -too bad- I find other shell.
But if someone does dynamis in an EG linkshell and doesn't do the other events, and they make the full run that day that they went, they deserve the same reward as anybody else, they were there, they worked for it and put their piece, if they don't go to the other run, then they don't get anything, points/money etc. It is their call and leader shouldn't be penalizing for not going to other events, I mean, at the end of the day like previous poster said, you dont give ancient beastcoins to people who make dynamis runs, and give dynamis money to people who do limbus etc. That's just erratic and stupid.
1. I understand economics better than that, just a little detail, mother and father run their own buisness, mother at home-buisness and father a big company investor, I have been around economics since...eh, well, since I can remember,so ***either runs on economics two ways; you are fair, *or you piss over people.
*OP is pissing over people. perhaphs unintentionaly.
2 Bold. You can be part timer sure, but you still have rights to get paid the same amount a full timer does << now let me explain that, if you get paid let's say 1k/hr and you both do the same job, but you spend 10hours at work and part timer 5 hours, then part timer gets 5hours paid, and the one that did 10 hours gets paid 10 hours, so thats 10k for the 10 hours and 5k for the 5 hours.
So you do the harm to yourself, if you miss a run you don't get paid for it, if you go to the run you get paid for it and it's only fair you get paid the same amount because you put the same effort weather you go to other runs or not, you went to THAT one and should get paid for THAT one.
now i know you will just reply BS. so inb4 lulz. I agree RL > game. However like a business, a LS doesn't care why you only show up to 1/3rd of the events. All they care about is the fact that you're not showing up. If I could only show up to my job 1/3rd of the days I was scheduled to work I would be fired. It wouldn't matter how valid my reasons were. I'm no use to the business if I can't work the days they need me. I would be told "I'm sorry but then there is no place for you in this company, I suggest you find a place of employment that better suits your lifestyle right now". In game terms that translates to "Find a different LS". Their are always exceptions, but the topic at hand isn't one of them.
Yes if I work the same hours and have the same wages as someone else we make the same money. However employee value is exponential. If I make 1k/hour and work 10 hours I make 10k. Someone else makes 2k/hour and works 8 hours. He makes 16k. He works less hours and make more than I did. Is that fair? Yes, he is a more valued employee he DOES MORE for the company than I do. Therefor the company decided he should make more money.
No you don't give limbus coins to dyna attendees or vice versa. But they may still get universal attendance points for going to either of them. A lot of LS's use a universal points system to encourage people to attend events other than ones they want gear from, and some LS's look at overall attendance when determining gil-splits.
EDIT: Also if you have a RL that's fine. But don't get pissed if the ppl that don't have a RL and can play more get more than you. That's just how it is, it's their time to spend as they choose. If they choose to spend it on a video game all day that's their business.
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 11:58:09
Shiva.Flionheart said: Darki, stop pulling the real life card.
If you put less time into something you deserve less rewards, regardless as to the reason.
The rewards shouldn't suddenly change for someone who couldn't do a run due to life commitments.
If you want more from the game put more hours in, if you can't put the hours in you don't deserve as much as people who do put the hours in.
I already said that, that it's fine, I get half of the rewards if I leave early on my dynamis linkshell, I get half of the points, and that is fine with me, I would be worried if they gave me full points for staying half way.
I'm not pulling real life card, I'm being realistic, something everyone fails at being considering they live in between the computer and the fridge.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-16 11:59:18
Phoenix.Darki said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Darki, stop pulling the real life card.
If you put less time into something you deserve less rewards, regardless as to the reason.
The rewards shouldn't suddenly change for someone who couldn't do a run due to life commitments.
If you want more from the game put more hours in, if you can't put the hours in you don't deserve as much as people who do put the hours in.
I already said that, that it's fine, I get half of the rewards if I leave early on my dynamis linkshell, I get half of the points, and that is fine with me, I would be worried if they gave me full points for staying half way.
I'm not pulling real life card, I'm being realistic, something everyone fails at being considering they live in between the computer and the fridge.
And I'm sure as hell going to give more reward to someone who is punctual and appears at EVERY event.
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 11:59:30
Ramuh.Urial said: Phoenix.Darki said:
ok so you are saying, that the currency should all go to leaders simply because they run the shell? You forget the fact that with out members no leaders. a fair system splits the profits like they should be split. I'm not defending lazy people, I am defending people with real lives here. but eh too much to ask from a MMO where people spend uhhh 70hours a week playing, and those are the types that screw over people... heck, they even probably on real life leech off someone aswell to also be able to spend those 70 hours online. It's just greedy people.
Are you borderline HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE?
If you don't contribute you don't get paid. That's what I said. That is how my shell works. People love it. They understand that if they don't make the full run they don't get a payday point. It's their own fault. Nowhere in there did I say ***about officers. You really need to read sentences better dumbass. And while I'm at it if you don't want to be serious about endgame don't join a ls that takes it seriously.
You know, I was agreeing to your system earlier, your just a douche for calling me HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE when all I've obviously been doing is agreeing that it's a fair system, that was rude really and much of a douche, but then again people read like half of the things others write and judge. yay!
Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-16 12:01:28
Ok, So, let me see. 2 People work 8 hours in a day. One is a mother, the other is an 18 year old kid.
One day, the mother leaves work early and only works 6 hours because her child gets sick. The 18 year old kid is able to work his full 8 hours.
Does that mean the mother should still get paid for 8 hours of work because zomg she has "real life" to take care of and its not her fault she has to leave early?
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:05:51
Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Sounds like Darki is the exact sort of person the OP was bitching about. A person who wants to put in half the time and get the same rewards as everyone else. Sorry but that's not reality, and you clearly have no concept of business economics.
I always viewed end game ls's as employers. If I put in 40 hours a week for my employer and you only put in 20 hours. Don't get pissed at me and the employer/linkshell because my paycheck is more than double what yours is. I put in more work than you did, I'm a more valuable asset to the company. Therefor I make more money per hour than you do. If you wanna be a part timer that's good and fine. Just don't be mad when you're treated like one.
These ppl were getting 150-200k a week for doing nothing but attending dyna, on top of any relic gear they got. I would be thrilled if a ls paid me 200k a week for attending 2 events. I cannot think of a single dyna ls on my server that pays out players at all in any way. Every player in that ls should be grateful they are getting gil out of it at all.
It's not that I want to put half the time, it's that I can't, and those are two different things, I am not even defending the fact that people leave and should get the same reward, if you've read right you should realize I'm defending the fact that some people can't make it to the events and be a slave of FFXI like most of you can, people have real life ***to deal with, and can't stay up till 12-1AM playing FFXI for some event, they have work/uni stuff? okey, and can't even make it to the runs too as a perfect attendance, it's just a game, not a job.
note: I am also fine with leaders giving me half the points/reward or w/e I'm going for if I leave early, I have already talked with all my ls leaders and I've let them know RL>GAME, if they don't like -too bad- I find other shell.
But if someone does dynamis in an EG linkshell and doesn't do the other events, and they make the full run that day that they went, they deserve the same reward as anybody else, they were there, they worked for it and put their piece, if they don't go to the other run, then they don't get anything, points/money etc. It is their call and leader shouldn't be penalizing for not going to other events, I mean, at the end of the day like previous poster said, you dont give ancient beastcoins to people who make dynamis runs, and give dynamis money to people who do limbus etc. That's just erratic and stupid.
1. I understand economics better than that, just a little detail, mother and father run their own buisness, mother at home-buisness and father a big company investor, I have been around economics since...eh, well, since I can remember,so ***either runs on economics two ways; you are fair, *or you piss over people.
*OP is pissing over people. perhaphs unintentionaly.
2 Bold. You can be part timer sure, but you still have rights to get paid the same amount a full timer does << now let me explain that, if you get paid let's say 1k/hr and you both do the same job, but you spend 10hours at work and part timer 5 hours, then part timer gets 5hours paid, and the one that did 10 hours gets paid 10 hours, so thats 10k for the 10 hours and 5k for the 5 hours.
So you do the harm to yourself, if you miss a run you don't get paid for it, if you go to the run you get paid for it and it's only fair you get paid the same amount because you put the same effort weather you go to other runs or not, you went to THAT one and should get paid for THAT one.
now i know you will just reply BS. so inb4 lulz.
I agree RL > game. However like a business, a LS doesn't care why you only show up to 1/3rd of the events. All they care about is the fact that you're not showing up. If I could only show up to my job 1/3rd of the days I was scheduled to work I would be fired. It wouldn't matter how valid my reasons were. I'm no use to the business if I can't work the days they need me. I would be told "I'm sorry but then there is no place for you in this company, I suggest you find a place of employment that better suits your lifestyle right now". In game terms that translates to "Find a different LS". Their are always exceptions, but the topic at hand isn't one of them.
Yes if I work the same hours and have the same wages as someone else we make the same money. However employee value is exponential. If I make 1k/hour and work 10 hours I make 10k. Someone else makes 2k/hour and works 8 hours. He makes 16k. He works less hours and make more than I did. Is that fair? Yes, he is a more valued employee he DOES MORE for the company than I do. Therefor the company decided he should make more money.
No you don't give limbus coins to dyna attendees or vice versa. But they may still get universal attendance points for going to either of them. A lot of LS's use a universal points system to encourage people to attend events other than ones they want gear from, and some LS's look at overall attendance when determining gil-splits.
EDIT: Also if you have a RL that's fine. But don't get pissed if the ppl that don't have a RL and can play more get more than you. That's just how it is, it's their time to spend as they choose. If they choose to spend it on a video game all day that's their business.
1st bold. ok you derailed right there, for the fact that in dynamis, everyone does the same job basicly, so should get paid the same I guess unless they leave early, like I've stated a million times and people just feel like thinking I havent said so. and obviously, leaders do snatch more gil for themselves at some point, so uhhh whatever.
1st paragraph, yes all linkshells ive known, always reset the players points if they don't show up let's say 2-3 months? and that is also fair.
3d paragraph, if they work that way, then it's a system that screws up the people that don't slave to the linkshell, and not everyone slaves to linkshells, so whoever can't slave to that linkshell should leave. Now has OP made this clear? No. He let them in his dyna runs separately and hes penalizing people who don't make his 2 runs a week, which is stupid, OP isnt a good leader.
last paragraph, I don't get pissed over whatever the *** people do with their lives, I don't care. But don't come screwing me over because I can't make a full run, give me what I deserve, if I deserve half of the points for that run I made half way, then it's fair game, don't give me less then that because you feel like I'm just slacking off.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:07:09
Sylph.Kimble said: Ok, So, let me see. 2 People work 8 hours in a day. One is a mother, the other is an 18 year old kid.
One day, the mother leaves work early and only works 6 hours because her child gets sick. The 18 year old kid is able to work his full 8 hours.
Does that mean the mother should still get paid for 8 hours of work because zomg she has "real life" to take care of and its not her fault she has to leave early?
No, you completly missed the point.
Ramuh.Urial
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By Ramuh.Urial 2010-05-16 12:07:41
No I read what you wrote, you did not read what I wrote. Yay pot-kettling.Simple enough it boils down to it you don't do as much work you don't get paid enough. For my ls that mean you don't attend the full run you don't get paid. We do that to encourage people to make the whole run for every zone. So that way after 2 hrs in Sandy it's not 15 of us having to work twice as hard because people bounced at clear. You should try leading things, maybe then you would understand why things are done. Most "unfair rules" seem unfair because they can't be manipulated by anyone. By doing that everyone is treated equally.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-16 12:09:09
Sylph.Kimble said: Ok, So, let me see. 2 People work 8 hours in a day. One is a mother, the other is an 18 year old kid. One day, the mother leaves work early and only works 6 hours because her child gets sick. The 18 year old kid is able to work his full 8 hours. Does that mean the mother should still get paid for 8 hours of work because zomg she has "real life" to take care of and its not her fault she has to leave early?
No, because Real life job is real life, that's real life interfering with real life, which boils down to which is more important and which needs to be done? IRL if you take off early, you aren't putting in hours and therefore are not making the money for said hours that were missed. If you skip/miss/arrive late/leave early you will also be missing out. As the stupid saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Darki, I'm not gonna sit and insult you, but you're wrong if you say that's unfair. It's a price you pay, it would be unfair for everyone else on a run who has to, as a whole, fill in for a member who isn't there for whatever reason, if the absentee got paid for not being there. Just let it go, please.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:12:03
Ramuh.Urial said: No I read what you wrote, you did not read what I wrote. Yay pot-kettling.Simple enough it boils down to it you don't do as much work you don't get paid enough. For my ls that mean you don't attend the full run you don't get paid. We do that to encourage people to make the whole run for every zone. So that way after 2 hrs in Sandy it's not 15 of us having to work twice as hard because people bounced at clear. You should try leading things, maybe then you would understand why things are done. Most "unfair rules" seem unfair because they can't be manipulated by anyone. By doing that everyone is treated equally.
it doesn't boil down to me I can't make a full run, in reality I can. I have always made my full runs, I got my rewards. It is recently that I haven't been able to due to other things, and so what ? before when I could I still thought the same way, and I still can make a full run with a sacrifice I'm not willing to make, so since im not willing and sometimes I cant> I get half the reward. and I'm fine with it.
I never said I wasnt, whats everyones big deal then?
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-16 12:13:11
Oh my god, not more real life card crap. When will people learn that this doesn't back up your argument in any way, shape or form?
You don't put in the work, you don't make the same pay! Complicated concept.
No, I don't care about whether you have real life parties to go to or whatever. If you can't make it, you can't make it - simple.
Also contrary to popular belief, you are not one of the few people who have a life who play this game. It is the minority who do not, not the majority - even among endgame LSs.
If you like asserting the real life card so much, why not just acknowledge that this is just a game and just virtual money anyway so who cares - you have a real life, remember?!
The real life card annoys me because so many dumb people use it. STOP USING IT.
[+]
Sylph.Kimble
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Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-16 12:13:53
My point remains, you shouldnt expect to get paid in full just because you have something else more important to do.
Im really not sure what her point is. If they do dynamis 2 times a week, and they only make it once, and get paid 1/2 of what everyone else gets, thats totally fair.
If they Do 4 events a week, and the only play 1/4 of those events, and they get 1/2 of what everyone else gets, they are actaully getting more than they should.
 Sylph.Spency
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-05-16 12:14:24
I don't have time to post a legitimate response! I have to go do RL stuff!
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:16:34
Phoenix.Kojo said: Sylph.Kimble said: Ok, So, let me see. 2 People work 8 hours in a day. One is a mother, the other is an 18 year old kid. One day, the mother leaves work early and only works 6 hours because her child gets sick. The 18 year old kid is able to work his full 8 hours. Does that mean the mother should still get paid for 8 hours of work because zomg she has "real life" to take care of and its not her fault she has to leave early?
No, because Real life job is real life, that's real life interfering with real life, which boils down to which is more important and which needs to be done? IRL if you take off early, you aren't putting in hours and therefore are not making the money for said hours that were missed. If you skip/miss/arrive late/leave early you will also be missing out. As the stupid saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Darki, I'm not gonna sit and insult you, but you're wrong if you say that's unfair. It's a price you pay, it would be unfair for everyone else on a run who has to, as a whole, fill in for a member who isn't there for whatever reason, if the absentee got paid for not being there. Just let it go, please.
but thats the thing, I'm not saying it's unfair you get paid half if you do half the work, everyone is missing that point! I say it's completly fair.
What I DO THINK THAT IS UNFAIR is that, let's explain for the morons that have been arguing with me:
Dynamis has two runs okey?
So, I can only make one run a week, it doesn't matter the *** reason, I can just only make one run a week, I make the full run, I enter early, I come out when the glass just feels like kicking me, I deserve to get paid for that run like everyone else, and NOT get penalized because I can't make the other run of that week. UNLESS let's say there is a rule; that the profits of dynamis for that week are merged, example: The 2 runs a week profits are merged and everyone gets paid for the 2 runs when they get paid, so yes I would see it fair to get paid half because that is just linkshell bank stuff.
Anyone understand now? or need more explanations?
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-16 12:18:32
Phoenix.Darki said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Sylph.Kimble said: Ok, So, let me see. 2 People work 8 hours in a day. One is a mother, the other is an 18 year old kid. One day, the mother leaves work early and only works 6 hours because her child gets sick. The 18 year old kid is able to work his full 8 hours. Does that mean the mother should still get paid for 8 hours of work because zomg she has "real life" to take care of and its not her fault she has to leave early? No, because Real life job is real life, that's real life interfering with real life, which boils down to which is more important and which needs to be done? IRL if you take off early, you aren't putting in hours and therefore are not making the money for said hours that were missed. If you skip/miss/arrive late/leave early you will also be missing out. As the stupid saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Darki, I'm not gonna sit and insult you, but you're wrong if you say that's unfair. It's a price you pay, it would be unfair for everyone else on a run who has to, as a whole, fill in for a member who isn't there for whatever reason, if the absentee got paid for not being there. Just let it go, please. but thats the thing, I'm not saying it's unfair you get paid half if you do half the work, everyone is missing that point! I say it's completly fair. What I DO THINK THAT IS UNFAIR is that, let's explain for the morons that have been arguing with me: Dynamis has two runs okey? So, I can only make one run a week, it doesn't matter the *** reason, I can just only make one run a week, I make the full run, I enter early, I come out when the glass just feels like kicking me, I deserve to get paid for that run like everyone else, and NOT get penalized because I can't make the other run of that week. UNLESS let's say there is a rule; that the profits of dynamis for that week are merged, example: The 2 runs a week profits are merged and everyone gets paid for the 2 runs when they get paid, so yes I would see it fair to get paid half because that is just linkshell bank stuff. Anyone understand now? or need more explanations?
In that case, I'd politely withdraw myself from the LS and look for one with better times to fit my schedule.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-16 12:18:35
I think you are arguing something that isn't there really.
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-16 12:21:13
Yeah, I'm wondering wtf you're arguing <_< sounds like you're agreeing with us but with a lot of rl card thrown in for good measure.
On topic though, I think that the people the OP describes are a bit stupid... if you only do dynamis with a shell, you should be thankful that you are getting part of the payouts. You're not contributing to the shell anywhere near as much as a full member and should be grateful that you are able to lot on items similar to fulltime members, let alone getting a payout too...
Oh well, they'll find out the grass is not greener on the other side!
[+]
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:22:03
Phoenix.Kojo said: Phoenix.Darki said: Phoenix.Kojo said: Sylph.Kimble said: Ok, So, let me see. 2 People work 8 hours in a day. One is a mother, the other is an 18 year old kid. One day, the mother leaves work early and only works 6 hours because her child gets sick. The 18 year old kid is able to work his full 8 hours. Does that mean the mother should still get paid for 8 hours of work because zomg she has "real life" to take care of and its not her fault she has to leave early? No, because Real life job is real life, that's real life interfering with real life, which boils down to which is more important and which needs to be done? IRL if you take off early, you aren't putting in hours and therefore are not making the money for said hours that were missed. If you skip/miss/arrive late/leave early you will also be missing out. As the stupid saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Darki, I'm not gonna sit and insult you, but you're wrong if you say that's unfair. It's a price you pay, it would be unfair for everyone else on a run who has to, as a whole, fill in for a member who isn't there for whatever reason, if the absentee got paid for not being there. Just let it go, please. but thats the thing, I'm not saying it's unfair you get paid half if you do half the work, everyone is missing that point! I say it's completly fair. What I DO THINK THAT IS UNFAIR is that, let's explain for the morons that have been arguing with me: Dynamis has two runs okey? So, I can only make one run a week, it doesn't matter the *** reason, I can just only make one run a week, I make the full run, I enter early, I come out when the glass just feels like kicking me, I deserve to get paid for that run like everyone else, and NOT get penalized because I can't make the other run of that week. UNLESS let's say there is a rule; that the profits of dynamis for that week are merged, example: The 2 runs a week profits are merged and everyone gets paid for the 2 runs when they get paid, so yes I would see it fair to get paid half because that is just linkshell bank stuff. Anyone understand now? or need more explanations?
In that case, I'd politely withdraw myself from the LS and look for one with better times to fit my schedule.
Eh yes that too, so on OP's position, it was better off if the members left, anyways whatever OP was saying, he shoulnd't feel bad that those crappy members left him, if they didn't autotarget: off in the first place, OP lost nothing of value. I was only arguing with his penalizing rule, but meh no one understands Darki. /emo
Gilgamesh.Tirantus
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 155
By Gilgamesh.Tirantus 2010-05-16 12:23:16
Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Sounds like Darki is the exact sort of person the OP was bitching about. A person who wants to put in half the time and get the same rewards as everyone else. Sorry but that's not reality, and you clearly have no concept of business economics.
I always viewed end game ls's as employers. If I put in 40 hours a week for my employer and you only put in 20 hours. Don't get pissed at me and the employer/linkshell because my paycheck is more than double what yours is. I put in more work than you did, I'm a more valuable asset to the company. Therefor I make more money per hour than you do. If you wanna be a part timer that's good and fine. Just don't be mad when you're treated like one.
These ppl were getting 150-200k a week for doing nothing but attending dyna, on top of any relic gear they got. I would be thrilled if a ls paid me 200k a week for attending 2 events. I cannot think of a single dyna ls on my server that pays out players at all in any way. Every player in that ls should be grateful they are getting gil out of it at all.
It's not that I want to put half the time, it's that I can't, and those are two different things, I am not even defending the fact that people leave and should get the same reward, if you've read right you should realize I'm defending the fact that some people can't make it to the events and be a slave of FFXI like most of you can, people have real life ***to deal with, and can't stay up till 12-1AM playing FFXI for some event, they have work/uni stuff? okey, and can't even make it to the runs too as a perfect attendance, it's just a game, not a job.
note: I am also fine with leaders giving me half the points/reward or w/e I'm going for if I leave early, I have already talked with all my ls leaders and I've let them know RL>GAME, if they don't like -too bad- I find other shell.
But if someone does dynamis in an EG linkshell and doesn't do the other events, and they make the full run that day that they went, they deserve the same reward as anybody else, they were there, they worked for it and put their piece, if they don't go to the other run, then they don't get anything, points/money etc. It is their call and leader shouldn't be penalizing for not going to other events, I mean, at the end of the day like previous poster said, you dont give ancient beastcoins to people who make dynamis runs, and give dynamis money to people who do limbus etc. That's just erratic and stupid.
1. I understand economics better than that, just a little detail, mother and father run their own buisness, mother at home-buisness and father a big company investor, I have been around economics since...eh, well, since I can remember,so ***either runs on economics two ways; you are fair, *or you piss over people.
*OP is pissing over people. perhaphs unintentionaly.
2 Bold. You can be part timer sure, but you still have rights to get paid the same amount a full timer does << now let me explain that, if you get paid let's say 1k/hr and you both do the same job, but you spend 10hours at work and part timer 5 hours, then part timer gets 5hours paid, and the one that did 10 hours gets paid 10 hours, so thats 10k for the 10 hours and 5k for the 5 hours.
So you do the harm to yourself, if you miss a run you don't get paid for it, if you go to the run you get paid for it and it's only fair you get paid the same amount because you put the same effort weather you go to other runs or not, you went to THAT one and should get paid for THAT one.
now i know you will just reply BS. so inb4 lulz.
I agree RL > game. However like a business, a LS doesn't care why you only show up to 1/3rd of the events. All they care about is the fact that you're not showing up. If I could only show up to my job 1/3rd of the days I was scheduled to work I would be fired. It wouldn't matter how valid my reasons were. I'm no use to the business if I can't work the days they need me. I would be told "I'm sorry but then there is no place for you in this company, I suggest you find a place of employment that better suits your lifestyle right now". In game terms that translates to "Find a different LS". Their are always exceptions, but the topic at hand isn't one of them.
Yes if I work the same hours and have the same wages as someone else we make the same money. However employee value is exponential. If I make 1k/hour and work 10 hours I make 10k. Someone else makes 2k/hour and works 8 hours. He makes 16k. He works less hours and make more than I did. Is that fair? Yes, he is a more valued employee he DOES MORE for the company than I do. Therefor the company decided he should make more money.
No you don't give limbus coins to dyna attendees or vice versa. But they may still get universal attendance points for going to either of them. A lot of LS's use a universal points system to encourage people to attend events other than ones they want gear from, and some LS's look at overall attendance when determining gil-splits.
EDIT: Also if you have a RL that's fine. But don't get pissed if the ppl that don't have a RL and can play more get more than you. That's just how it is, it's their time to spend as they choose. If they choose to spend it on a video game all day that's their business.
1st bold. ok you derailed right there, for the fact that in dynamis, everyone does the same job basicly, so should get paid the same I guess unless they leave early, like I've stated a million times and people just feel like thinking I havent said so. and obviously, leaders do snatch more gil for themselves at some point, so uhhh whatever.
1st paragraph, yes all linkshells ive known, always reset the players points if they don't show up let's say 2-3 months? and that is also fair.
3d paragraph, if they work that way, then it's a system that screws up the people that don't slave to the linkshell, and not everyone slaves to linkshells, so whoever can't slave to that linkshell should leave. Now has OP made this clear? No. He let them in his dyna runs separately and hes penalizing people who don't make his 2 runs a week, which is stupid, OP isnt a good leader.
last paragraph, I don't get pissed over whatever the *** people do with their lives, I don't care. But don't come screwing me over because I can't make a full run, give me what I deserve, if I deserve half of the points for that run I made half way, then it's fair game, don't give me less then that because you feel like I'm just slacking off. bold: wrong. Full time ls members are more valued to the ls than ppl that only show up to 2 events a week. Therefor they should get more out of any sort of gil split. As long as they are on even terms as far as relic lotting rules go I find that fare. It just doesn't make sense to fork over 200k a week to people that won't be helping your ls with anything else, and people with that sort of mentality tend to bail on an event as soon as they have what they wanted in the first place.
Me personally. It's not that I would think you're lazy or slacking. Again I have to say I just don't care what your excuse for not being there was. Does a teacher care why you didn't finish a project? no. Does an employer care why you didn't show up to work and didn't call in sick? no. Does a LS care why you didn't show up to an event? no. All they care about is that you didn't show. The only exceptions to this would be a serious medical or family emergency. But guess what, emergencies don't happen 3 times a week.
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:24:15
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Yeah, I'm wondering wtf you're arguing <_< sounds like you're agreeing with us but with a lot of rl card thrown in for good measure.
On topic though, I think that the people the OP describes are a bit stupid... if you only do dynamis with a shell, you should be thankful that you are getting part of the payouts. You're not contributing to the shell anywhere near as much as a full member and should be grateful that you are able to lot on items similar to fulltime members, let alone getting a payout too...
Oh well, they'll find out the grass is not greener on the other side!
well that really depends how the linkshell rules are established... if he established in the first place that dynamis currency is also for members that do other things, and you get rewards on limbus/sky/dyna overall for your full work, then meh it's a system that benefits linkshell slaves, and the members that just went /whine whine whine before they left just wanted to /rage at OP and OP let himself get trolled.
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-16 12:25:09
Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Phoenix.Darki said: Gilgamesh.Tirantus said: Sounds like Darki is the exact sort of person the OP was bitching about. A person who wants to put in half the time and get the same rewards as everyone else. Sorry but that's not reality, and you clearly have no concept of business economics.
I always viewed end game ls's as employers. If I put in 40 hours a week for my employer and you only put in 20 hours. Don't get pissed at me and the employer/linkshell because my paycheck is more than double what yours is. I put in more work than you did, I'm a more valuable asset to the company. Therefor I make more money per hour than you do. If you wanna be a part timer that's good and fine. Just don't be mad when you're treated like one.
These ppl were getting 150-200k a week for doing nothing but attending dyna, on top of any relic gear they got. I would be thrilled if a ls paid me 200k a week for attending 2 events. I cannot think of a single dyna ls on my server that pays out players at all in any way. Every player in that ls should be grateful they are getting gil out of it at all.
It's not that I want to put half the time, it's that I can't, and those are two different things, I am not even defending the fact that people leave and should get the same reward, if you've read right you should realize I'm defending the fact that some people can't make it to the events and be a slave of FFXI like most of you can, people have real life ***to deal with, and can't stay up till 12-1AM playing FFXI for some event, they have work/uni stuff? okey, and can't even make it to the runs too as a perfect attendance, it's just a game, not a job.
note: I am also fine with leaders giving me half the points/reward or w/e I'm going for if I leave early, I have already talked with all my ls leaders and I've let them know RL>GAME, if they don't like -too bad- I find other shell.
But if someone does dynamis in an EG linkshell and doesn't do the other events, and they make the full run that day that they went, they deserve the same reward as anybody else, they were there, they worked for it and put their piece, if they don't go to the other run, then they don't get anything, points/money etc. It is their call and leader shouldn't be penalizing for not going to other events, I mean, at the end of the day like previous poster said, you dont give ancient beastcoins to people who make dynamis runs, and give dynamis money to people who do limbus etc. That's just erratic and stupid.
1. I understand economics better than that, just a little detail, mother and father run their own buisness, mother at home-buisness and father a big company investor, I have been around economics since...eh, well, since I can remember,so ***either runs on economics two ways; you are fair, *or you piss over people.
*OP is pissing over people. perhaphs unintentionaly.
2 Bold. You can be part timer sure, but you still have rights to get paid the same amount a full timer does << now let me explain that, if you get paid let's say 1k/hr and you both do the same job, but you spend 10hours at work and part timer 5 hours, then part timer gets 5hours paid, and the one that did 10 hours gets paid 10 hours, so thats 10k for the 10 hours and 5k for the 5 hours.
So you do the harm to yourself, if you miss a run you don't get paid for it, if you go to the run you get paid for it and it's only fair you get paid the same amount because you put the same effort weather you go to other runs or not, you went to THAT one and should get paid for THAT one.
now i know you will just reply BS. so inb4 lulz.
I agree RL > game. However like a business, a LS doesn't care why you only show up to 1/3rd of the events. All they care about is the fact that you're not showing up. If I could only show up to my job 1/3rd of the days I was scheduled to work I would be fired. It wouldn't matter how valid my reasons were. I'm no use to the business if I can't work the days they need me. I would be told "I'm sorry but then there is no place for you in this company, I suggest you find a place of employment that better suits your lifestyle right now". In game terms that translates to "Find a different LS". Their are always exceptions, but the topic at hand isn't one of them.
Yes if I work the same hours and have the same wages as someone else we make the same money. However employee value is exponential. If I make 1k/hour and work 10 hours I make 10k. Someone else makes 2k/hour and works 8 hours. He makes 16k. He works less hours and make more than I did. Is that fair? Yes, he is a more valued employee he DOES MORE for the company than I do. Therefor the company decided he should make more money.
No you don't give limbus coins to dyna attendees or vice versa. But they may still get universal attendance points for going to either of them. A lot of LS's use a universal points system to encourage people to attend events other than ones they want gear from, and some LS's look at overall attendance when determining gil-splits.
EDIT: Also if you have a RL that's fine. But don't get pissed if the ppl that don't have a RL and can play more get more than you. That's just how it is, it's their time to spend as they choose. If they choose to spend it on a video game all day that's their business.
1st bold. ok you derailed right there, for the fact that in dynamis, everyone does the same job basicly, so should get paid the same I guess unless they leave early, like I've stated a million times and people just feel like thinking I havent said so. and obviously, leaders do snatch more gil for themselves at some point, so uhhh whatever.
1st paragraph, yes all linkshells ive known, always reset the players points if they don't show up let's say 2-3 months? and that is also fair.
3d paragraph, if they work that way, then it's a system that screws up the people that don't slave to the linkshell, and not everyone slaves to linkshells, so whoever can't slave to that linkshell should leave. Now has OP made this clear? No. He let them in his dyna runs separately and hes penalizing people who don't make his 2 runs a week, which is stupid, OP isnt a good leader.
last paragraph, I don't get pissed over whatever the *** people do with their lives, I don't care. But don't come screwing me over because I can't make a full run, give me what I deserve, if I deserve half of the points for that run I made half way, then it's fair game, don't give me less then that because you feel like I'm just slacking off. bold: wrong. Full time ls members are more valued to the ls than ppl that only show up to 2 events a week. Therefor they should get more out of any sort of gil split. As long as they are on even terms as far as relic lotting rules go I find that fare. It just doesn't make sense to fork over 200k a week to people that won't be helping your ls with anything else, and people with that sort of mentality tend to bail on an event as soon as they have what they wanted in the first place.
Me personally. It's not that I would think you're lazy or slacking. Again I have to say I just don't care what your excuse for not being there was. Does a teacher care why you didn't finish a project? no. Does an employer care why you didn't show up to work and didn't call in sick? no. Does a LS care why you didn't show up to an event? no. All they care about is that you didn't show. The only exceptions to this would be a serious medical or family emergency. But guess what, emergencies don't happen 3 times a week.
Yawn. missing my point again.
A few months ago i offered my friend (and he later asked 3 friends of his) to join my Linkshell's Dynamis runs, but they don't practically join my linkshell, they just come to Dynamis every week. Other members of the shell have to do 4 events a week, but this group only comes on Dynamis which is 1/4 the number of events, although they're online on other days but refuse to come because they are in a static to do all "missions and quests" together. So i was being nice and accepted that ...
I often/always do Payouts for my linkshell after Dynamis, so i decided to give them payouts as well but i only give them half what a real member receives due to what i explained above. But they still have the full right to lot on relic equips like other people (And they did get a few nice ones)
And then yesterday they told us that they would no longer want to come because 75.000G for a run just isn't worth it(sometimes each of them received 100.000G for a run) for multiple deaths and made it sound like we used them.
I didn't know what else to do other than lol'ed.
Their SAM was trying to guess /assist the whole run with his /autotarget on and even woke a WHM mob up and denied it although we saw it with our own eyes. 2 of their BLMs can't even time nuke properly and harldy did anything while other 2 blms of my shell worked their ass off and got killed alot because they just stood there watching, and most of the deaths were because of them.
So lol. But i'm not gonna be an ass and name them here to try to prevent them to get to anything else, or make a huge drama out of it. I just want to tell my tale in case rumors start going around that we "used" them for our own goods.
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