Stop Shouting And Not Adding BLU Campaign

You're exaggerating the difficulty of finding competent mages that can hit a macro when they see red lines, so I provided an example which is near foolproof. You obviously don't need 6 stunners and they don't have to be perfect. Even stunning 70% of the TP moves in a run will be superior to letting 100% go off.


Do you plan on going 1/1 on all your JSE capes? The time you're wasting settling for mediocre DD and ignoring stuns adds up over the dozens or even hundreds of runs it's going to take to get the gear you want from it. It might seem like you're saving time, but doing a higher CL with a better set up PUG will be significantly more efficient than doing 123 with a PUG you throw together in <10min without any care for jobs/strategy.

Based on all the posts so far, it sounds like BLU is a job that a player needs to be not only highly skilled at, but also very well geared to make it worth a spot in party. Is your argument that it's more difficult to find PUG mages that can stun and easier to find a BLU of high enough caliber to justify not stunning at all and eating every TP move?

Seriously, my issue isn't with BLU, it's with this trend of acceptance that it's ok to just eat every TP move in Incursion used as a justification to use BLU. It's not as drastic as Lahar was, which forced people to stun, but it arguably wastes just as much time if you don't stun, even if the content is so easy at 123 that PUGs can still piece a win together in 40min when it should be done in 10.

I have landed Sudden Lunge on boss with a successful stun multiple times with 5/10 Phys. blue magic effect acc. And at 7.5s it's the fastest stun in the game. (I will let you know at 10/10 if it's 90 percentile area on stun rates, because even sch get resisted)

I didn't advocate don't bring stunners at all, I didn't even advocate bringing a BLU over a SAM for everyone, I only said it's a viable option depending on what you have. I use stun jobs a lot, I just haven't notice ppl pulling off 100% stun rate every single run in incursion just yet.

In that case it doesn't hurt to have someone helping with erase. No offense but since you don't PUG but I PUG a lot, I don't think your opinion about the time spent on finding multiple mages very convincing to me. FYI last PUG I tried to make on weekday, it was 4/6~5/6 after nearly 1hr+ of /shout so we had to disband.

While your suggestion could work well and I'd like to try when I get a chance, I don't see how it's always possible find that many mages, I can probably do it easily on weekends, but on weekdays it isn't always possible.

The point is to be flexible with what I have instead of sitting in town crafting/soloing 5 days out of 7 days just because perfect setup isn't there. If I have multiple mages? Good, I'll just make a better setup and do higher difficulty one. If I don't there gonna be compromise. But sit in town and do nothing is a worse choice than going for lower lv IMO.

Skill wise playing a BLU to DD is slightly easier than pulling off perfect stun IMO, gear sets are on the forum, and there are no limited time frame to click erase macro, unlike stuns.


I don't think anyone is suggesting the alliance to eat TP move though, we're just pointing out that stuns can miss, erase can be taxing, and 1 extra AoE erase doesn't hurt. If you use more than 2 DD slots, replacing 1 SAM to BLU isn't going to suddenly make a 10 min run into 40 min. It can still kill fodder and do def down.

Get a better Brd.
Blu can not outparse Sam. Ever.
Should not take Mnk to Incursion when you can take Sam.

You can take an all whm party to Incursion. You can take a Blu, Pup, Run, and any other job but if I want to win I take the right setup.

Brd can sleep NM.

Obviously somebody has never seen a decent BLU before.

Either that or is a bandwagon SAM.

Hell, my WAR has outparsed top-of-the-line SAMs and MNKs before. Just because they are "easy" jobs doesn't mean that they are "better" jobs.

I have the jobs i enjoy. Mnk/Thf/Blm Im finishing Gun relic atm.
I used them for content when I can or solo stuff.

But its always best think about the group and not just yourself.
You will be invited more often if you come with what is needed.

BLU cannot beat SAM or MNK in a straight damage fight, it does excel in more complex events, roaming events, and anytime mobs have weaknesses that BLU can exploit. The "good x > average x" is a fallacy. BLU does great in lower level content where it can use it's tools effectively, on high level stuff, it just falls behind, plain and simple. In high demand events, specialized jobs become more valuable, yes a BLU can stun, SCH does it better, yes a BLU can nuke, BLM does it better, etc.

Who? Were they named Tenzen and Prishe?

From my personal experience the weapon is only as good as the person using it, just saying.


I second that =)

I like turtles

Man all you guys are lucky having access to stunners, I haven't even done Incursion with a stunner yet.

If your not bringing the absolute best geared people on the absolute best jobs then the NMs will do 9,999 damage every swing and delete your account...

Yeah it's a game and the event isn't even that hard. Bring a dedicated stunner and sleeper and you can win with most any ilevel 119 melee line up. There isn't an appreciable difference between the various melee setups. Just stun the TP moves and your set.

Serious guys your arguing about "linkshell pride" which is foolish in this era of FFXI.

Obviously.

I mean, they totally rock in Incursion. Oh wai...

Edit: I guess I should elaborate. When I say "top-of-the-line" I really mean "Those who say that they are top-of-the-line but really suck instead."

Maybe it's because I play BRD for the event, but if we didn't stun, I don't think I'd have the mental fortitude to do the event at all with the dispels/binds/slows/weapon strips.

I feel like doing Incursion without a stunner is like mowing your lawn with a pair of scissors. Sure, it'll get the job done, but it'll be slow, painful and extremely stressful.

It's actually not that bad until you get to the higher ilvls. We went to 127 or so using Sam Sam Thf Brd Whm Geo, Geo. With Attune/Vex at that level they almost never land Slow/Bind. Dispels/equip removal sure are annoying but really aren't that bad. The Brd definitely has it the worst when you do it like that, though.

When it remove my AM3 2 time in a row I just wanna log off for the night, so we stopped going w/o stun lol

Yeah it drives our mythic Sam bonkers, doesn't bother my Tsurumaru much though.

Not on the AOE department tho

This so much. I used to go whm. With 4x DD, dual box brd and me. Even with yagrush it made me want to /wrist after just one run.

I have been reading all the pages on this post about the stun gun topic. I don't think it's possible to perfect stun something that takes more than 5 mins gazing at your screen, unless you're bot stunning (like most ppl on this game does).

BLU cannot out-parse SAM, huh? MNK either you say? I've put this to the test on incursion, tojil and Outer Ra skirmish. I'll do more runs over the next couple days and post screens shots of the scoreboard.

No.

Not saying most people don't bot stun, but it's pretty idiotic to say it's impossible to perfect stun. You have like 3 seconds reaction time for most moves, and will rarely be tasked with any additional job while stunning. Boring, maybe. Difficult, no.

I think his point was, the "Boring" element is exactly what makes ppl miss stun. I also have to point out "land stuns 99% of time" isn't equal to perfect.

If someone repeatly click a button in a mechanical way on perfect timing for 1 min, most ppl with ok reaction speed can probably do it well.

Now you need to repeatly click the button for 1hr, some ppl may miss at one point of time due to attention span decreasing after some time.

Now do it for 5hr, more ppl gonna miss.

Note that perfect stuns means 100% land rate, not 99% or lower land rate, as long as you miss 1 in 1000 stuns, it's no longer perfect. Making this task harder to pull off after longer duration of time.

Especially for none 3rd pt tool players.

While it's certainly possible to pull off perfect stuns in theory, it's unrealistic to expect everyone to do so and claim "supports are terrible" if they failed to do so, it simply doesn't do stunners justice. 99% of DD players doesn't hit output ceiling(play perfect) are still considered "good" or "above avg", what makes perfect stun a requirement not to be terrible?

Also I highly doubt the timing is 3 sec without battlemod if you consider the internet speed.

don't need battlemod if you watch the mob for tp animation

missing one stun in 1000(or even 5 stuns in 100) doesn't make blu more useful, if majority of tp are stunned whm has no issues with stratagems(besides, who doesnt have yagrush after the streets were flooded with alex for so long)

i've had multiple stunners complain its still hard for them to stun by visual animation due to stacked geos and the endless ws spam going off.
And if you do gramk and sleep all the adds, they clutter everything up, eventually something unsleeps early and messes up your nicely collected horde of adds and positioning/visibility gets less than ideal.

DD just lock on the target and faceroll spam ws, when stunners are competent the DD have the easiest job in the whole event.
Boohoo your weapon got knocked out of your hand on occasion lol.

Maybe other servers exploited alex a bunch but yagrush whms are still pretty rare on my server.

ok, if your support make it so blu > sam with equal gear, your support is awfull.

And we don't do incursion for 5h in a row, we do 1-2 run at most with at least 10min break between cause rushing content mean getting bored too fast :(


edit: Gram is the easiest one to stun since he is use them less often than the other NM, you can solo stun it, also you can sleep add and move gram away from add.

yeah we can have a sch solo stun the megaboss, sometimes he's alittle faster than 9secs with the tp moves though, so I time my rdm enfeeble rotation/nuke/sleepga duty to be ready to cover stuns for that.

Also we move boss away and support adjusts their positioning, we still get one random add that wakes and decides to randomly target someone and makes things alittle messy

Support/utility wise I'm kinda curious, if you have 3 DD in pt, is it an established fact that SAM SAM SAM always > SAM SAM BLU in all situations? I'm really sure.

According speadsheet, using Ejiin's low acc TP/WS set with riverfin soup(if I change to attack food I got lower number even with higher acc gear set) on tojil lv of target:

SV 3 attack songs and capped haste, berserk/overwhelm all up:
Koga SAM:973 dps with dia3
Tizona BLU: 780 DPS with dia3

Same buff with frightful roar:
SAM: 1088
BLU: 863


PT with 3 SAM: 2919
PT with 2 SAM 1 BLU: 3039

There may be a better food/gear acc combination for both jobs I'm missing though.

Ah the old 'this light dd job makes this other job do more damage' argument.
I do this capping feather+boxstep with dancer on targets but random people don't look at things that way. BLU flutterga buff + roar/etc are really nice but noone wants to build parties that way.