Stop Shouting And Not Adding BLU Campaign

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Stop shouting and not adding BLU campaign
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 Sylph.Gobbo
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2014-09-26 20:47:24
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I really enjoy doing Incursion on BLU. Being able to sleepga everything, remove multiple eraseable debuffs, pretty good stuns, defense down, and being a solid mid-tier DD allows me to rationalize a spot in the party.

Though we're getting to a point where I'm feeling BLU is starting to overstay its welcome. If I'm being focused, and if Cacharian Verve isn't on, I will be interrupted (this is my biggest gripe). NMs are starting to resist Sleep without Focus/Langour which I won't be receiving due to kill speed falling. Stuns are becoming moot since 2 GEOs or a SCH could take care of that (which I could also go as). NMs already resist Lunge part of the time even with Focus anyways, not to mention the normal physical accuracy cap contributing to lunge flat out missing 5% of the time, so I'd have to use Temporal Shift so something really stupid doesn't go off like Meteor or Jungle Hoodoo which I'm having a hard time fitting into my list without killing traits like Accuracy Bonus or support spells.

So I mean at lower levels it's fantastic, and even where we are (129) Sinker Drill still destroys fodder and NMs alike. But when you bring a good SAM in place of your BLU you really notice the change and how broken it is. I'm sure if you go with a larger group, things change, but when you are hitting it up with like 6-8 people, it's getting harder and harder to bring lol.
 Asura.Echandra
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By Asura.Echandra 2014-09-26 20:51:10
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I don't have the inventory to gear up blu =/
also....none of the wildskeeper bosses give me spells
0/too many stopped trying

I enjoyed reading this version of the bluemage argument, unlike the last eight. thank you.
 Lakshmi.Cledant
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By Lakshmi.Cledant 2014-09-26 21:09:34
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It sad how literally you're forced to level sam or mnk in order to do endgame content ( if you want to DD)

But that's how ffxi have been for years. The ffxi community is trash and as soon something goes wrong, you'll be better to be examined by everyone on the party if you're a whm or brd. But there's so many amateurs around standing far away from healers or facing mage spot so everyone gets hit by ***.

DDs fighting on aggro adds areas or not bringing meds but hey it's ok BRD it's supposed to sleep everything. Also you have to deal with shitty american bossy players as well and stupid language barriers + a shitstorm from a mega flawed game.
 Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2014-09-26 22:27:42
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Lakshmi.Cledant said: »
It sad how literally you're forced to level sam or mnk in order to do endgame content ( if you want to DD)

Its not really that sad, sam is awesome. Plus you could level... wait for it... wait for it... a support job!

Oh no your 'forced' to do something you dont like to get something you want. whatever will we do.
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By FaeQueenCory 2014-09-26 22:59:17
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Odin.Terren said: »
I think in some ways this speaks to a broader issue - the relative skill and knowledge of PUGs.

On Odin there's really three kinds of PUGs - Veterans who shout all the time and know exactly what they want, tentatively-new-players-to-leading-events (ie middle-of-the-road players that don't have enough LS mates to do it themselves) that just wanna get #$@# done, and, well, players lacking in knowledge and social skills that believe shouting for something = automatic win.

A complaint you see in a number of discussion forums is that content is "first cleared by the statics", and "the rest of us" have to rely on PUGs. I think for the skilled player that doesn't have a 'static', this is a prime opportunity to help raise the level of skill on your server.

Quite frankly: talk to the leader, explain the value of a BLU in their event, and offer to help them with any strategy concerns or places where they're missing information.

Incursion is a great example - a billion status effects that BLU can remove easily, fantastic opportunity for BLU-based sleeps and crowd control, and quite frankly, BLU removing the pressure from BRDs for sleeps - as the BRDs seem to be constantly playing buff songs from the dispelga spam.

BLU is a great DD, but I don't think selling yourself as such, and only that, is really doing the job justice. It's also a hard sell to players running the "PLD RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG RNG" strategies or other cookie-cutter setups for a lot of end-game content. But frequently these days, it's difficult for PUGs to make that perfect cookie-cutter setup - let alone fill it with skilled/geared players - so explaining what a BLU can add to the situation and how it might help round-out the "real life" implementation of their plan can be really useful.

That all being said, be realistic. A BLU in a constant amnesia-ga, silence-ga situation isn't going to perform up to snuff. NIN, for example, can output some of the highest DPS in the game and, well-geared, significantly outperform other DD jobs on content like AAs and DM2. You throw the same NIN at Wopket and suddenly pDIF destroys that damage output (not entirely, but they won't be out-DDing any SAMs on that tree).

I guess the misguided idea I'm stabbing at here is to try to educate and negotiate if you need to get content through a PUG. If the leader won't hear any of it - honestly, chances are they will fail anyway and you'll have saved yourself three hours of misery. If it's a veteran leader, let them know you're a competent, well-geared BLU, and you'd love to play the job with them sometime in the future when there's an opportunity, if you can't join them that night. And if it's a poor noob scrambling to get crap done and clearly has no idea what they're doing - offer to help. A lot. They might appreciate it.

in short: don't let the lukewarm BS of PUGs get you down on your job. Turn that #@$@ around and edumacate a noob.
You have better faith in humans to comprehend reason than I do...
But then... I joined a 20SKCNM N PUG run... Where I said I could PLD... When I started gearing, I was asked "do you have Ochain?"
A legit question... But this is a 20SKCNM... Don't need an Ochain for that.
I've done all of them on D on PLD with just Beatific Shield with 0 issue. (And I must also point out that I don't need crazy heals on them... A PLD should be able to keep themselves alive.)
And when I explained all this...

I was flatly told no Ochain = kicked.
So I went WHM.
And they got their Ochain PLD...
A full blue eminence gear PLD...
But they have Ochain!
...
*** died EVERY pop. Just got shredded.
Much to my delight because I made sure to point out how "he has Ochain".
(And yeah... I had to keep the *** alive until there was just one NM left... Then I said "you can do the job you should have been doing on this easy content yourself"... To which without me treating him like a DRK... He died every time.)

Another time I was helping my RL friend with a run... Had planned to take that Saturday to do a full set... 1~5...
We did two.
Because he went all friendship on my *** with a LSmate of his...
So I was moved to DD cause they had "a full 117 PLD"... Which is a higher avg iLv than my PLD...
We did N.
He either died every time or almost died.
But... 117!
(To add insult to injury I switched to RUN and out tanked him... While still contributing like a DD... Cause GS. You know you have problems when your PLD's HP is dropping faster and harder than the fake!mythicless RUN.)

People think eminent gear isn't ***because it's "117"...
People think you NEED Ochain to tank 20SKCNMs on N.
Neither of these things are True and no amount of explaining will convince people otherwise.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-26 23:39:53
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Ragnarok.Worldslost said: »
Presidentmerman said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Presidentmerman said: »
Ragnarok.Worldslost said: »
For the record I'm not talking about me, I have to be one of the top five blue mages on my server. I am talking in general. Blu should be included in the shout period for just what it brings to the table as a job. It offers to much to be swept under the rug.
Top BLU? News to me. Just sayin

Not enough BLU on Ragnarok I guess!

Siren.Sieha said: »
If a blu is complaining about not being invited its more often the fact that they are terrible.

I wanted to post the parse with OP when I saw this thread, but decided not to be the bad guy!

I complained about not getting invite on BLU fairly often, at least I accepted the fact that I'm terrible at it!

Agreed =) I'll take the parse challenge.

Let me know when, and make sure I'm not tanking, erasing and AOE cure next time you ninja parse me..


FYI,
1)If you're talking to me, I didn't ninja parse you, someone posted in LS. And it wasn't incursion either.
2)Also in any melee event everyone would be tanking, so it's not exactly fair to ask not to tank.
3)There's no point to bring a BLU if you're not erasing. So it's kinda pointless to say "I wanna win parse thus I don't want to erase".

I think the point is that if you claim you're "Top X of this server" without knowing every player on the server, including JPs, you will get reply like presidentmerman's. Claiming "I often outparse SAM MNK" is fine because it's based on your personal experience. Claiming "I'm one of the best of this server" is making a controversial assumption.
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 Ragnarok.Arcaine
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By Ragnarok.Arcaine 2014-09-27 06:46:01
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I agree with Worldslost on this issue. I really love playing blu and I use it almost every time I'm soloing previous content like ToAH, WoG or abbysea due to it's versatility. The adjustments they made over the last few updates have been a big game changer (Flutter, Verve, Sinker drill, ect).
Blu is a lot more powerful as a DD than most people give it credit for. Yes, it sacrifices some of SAM's raw damage for it's versatility, but in incursion where things get very chaotic and dispel-crazy I saw it's a good trade-off for 1 DD slot in a party. I just wish more party leaders would see it that way. I mean, unless you have a Yagrush WHM (tall order, that.), a blu's AOE erase is the best option for the bindga/slowga you see all the time. Even scholars get their stratagems used up fast in there, I would know.
And lets not forget the blu mage panic button: Sanguine blade while wearing MAB gear = insta-full-heal (note: not that effective on megabosses). Mine can go for about 4000 on regular mobs. Can be a mixed bag though... I've used it right before a cure V hit me for 0 hp resulting in much laughter several times in incursion. Problem with that is the WHM didn't get any MP return, so I only hit my sanguine panic macro when I'm in the red.

I'm glad people are seeing the utility of another neglected job in incursion, GEO. I just figured blu would get noticed as well, but I was only half-right. the other half of the time it's "Do you have mnk or sam?". maybe we need a few more job adjustments, like how SAM woke up one day with an OP weaponskill that won them the game.


btw I'm the 6th best blu on the server. I just don't know who the other 5 are.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-27 06:50:20
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Ragnarok.Arcaine said: »
I agree with Worldslost on this issue. I really love playing blu and I use it almost every time I'm soloing previous content like ToAH, WoG or abbysea due to it's versatility. The adjustments they made over the last few updates have been a big game changer (Flutter, Verve, Sinker drill, ect).
Blu is a lot more powerful as a DD than most people give it credit for. Yes, it sacrifices some of SAM's raw da
mage for it's versatility, but in incursion where things get very chaotic and dispel-crazy I saw it's a good trade-off for 1 DD slot in a party. I just wish more party leaders would see it that way. I mean, unless you have a Yagrush WHM (tall order, that.), a blu's AOE erase is the best option for the bindga/slowga you see all the time. Even scholars get their stratagems used up fast in there, I would know.
And lets not forget the blu mage panic button: Sanguine blade while wearing MAB gear = insta-full-heal (note: not that effective on megabosses). Mine can go for about 4000 on regular mobs. Can be a mixed bag though... I've used it right before a cure V hit me for 0 hp resulting in much laughter several times in incursion. Problem with that is the WHM didn't get any MP return, so I only hit my sanguine panic macro when I'm in the red.

I'm glad people are seeing the utility of another neglected job in incursion, GEO. I just figured blu would get noticed as well, but I was only half-right. the other half of the time it's "Do you have mnk or sam?". maybe we need a few more job adjustments, like how SAM woke up one day with an OP weaponskill that won them the game.


btw I'm the 6th best blu on the server. I just don't know who the other 5 are.


I guess that's why I can't play other jobs;( you guys took the spot.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-27 06:57:22
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Do yourself a favor and lvl sch instead of going blu to incursion you'll make your group much better and a lot happier about the event.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-27 07:04:05
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Do yourself a favor and lvl sch instead of going blu to incursion you'll make your group much better and a lot happier about the event.


Just curious, I saw SCH mentioned several times,is it better than RDM GEO?
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-27 07:18:38
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Yes it is; we do bring a rdm and a sch; the rdm is busy with sleepga, haste II, debuff, the sch can focus on stunning only and can achieve a lower recast.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-27 07:30:44
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Yes it is; we do bring a rdm and a sch; the rdm is busy with sleepga, haste II, debuff, the sch can focus on stunning only and can achieve a lower recast.



Can RDm and geo rotate stun?
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-27 08:28:03
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It would prolly work (unless they can't achieve enough macc, I honestly don't know for sure) but since our rdm is sleeping/hasteII/distract/frazzle we prefer to not have our rdm on stun duty.
 Asura.Echandra
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By Asura.Echandra 2014-09-27 08:41:09
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
Yes it is; we do bring a rdm and a sch; the rdm is busy with sleepga, haste II, debuff, the sch can focus on stunning only and can achieve a lower recast.



Can RDm and geo rotate stun?

Most of the Geos I have seen have to switch to magic acc buffs to land on higher content or they start having problems. Going under the assumption that you are going with 6, the stun rotation can be problematic with all the other crap going on. As CCL said, it works so much smoother if you just have a focused sch stunnah, but who has those? everyone has to be a DD job! /sigh
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By Ragnarok.Gekuz 2014-09-27 09:05:50
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Do yourself a favor and lvl sch instead of going blu to incursion you'll make your group much better and a lot happier about the event.

Do yourself a favor, meet with a good BLU, level up the Job, gear it with all the sets (STR DEX BLUSKILL PDT MDT REFRESH ACCU MACCU HASTE DA+TA StoreTP AGI MNK CUREPOTENCY+ CURERECEIVED FastCast.
Love this job, and the get frustrated by ppl saiyng you to level up SCH
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-09-27 09:15:57
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Our blu are perfect, it is useless for incursion 130+. It can't do dmg as good as a melee, can't stun as good as a sch; what is it good for in there then?
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 Ragnarok.Jukiro
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By Ragnarok.Jukiro 2014-09-27 10:22:29
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RDM and GEO can rotate stun easily, but the problem lies with RDM stunning over a long period due to having an E in dark magic skill. Geo/Indi-Focus from the GEO makes this a moot point though.

It should also be mentioned that Gramk-Droog can be more easily solo stunned than the other NMs and adherents in the zone due to his usually long delays between TP moves. Good to know if you're solely farming his drops at any point.

BLU is a great job for utility but as it was pointed out, its efficiency decreases the higher iLVL you get. Everything in this game is situational. You can strive for efficiency or work with what you have. I'm guessing most of the career BLU play with shitty mages and it skews their perspective.

BLU is not bad, but face the facts. Either you're contributing to DPS, or you're contributing to stun locking/sleeps, and that makes you mediocre in both fields.
 Sylph.Gobbo
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2014-09-27 10:29:47
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Ragnarok.Gekuz said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
Do yourself a favor and lvl sch instead of going blu to incursion you'll make your group much better and a lot happier about the event.

Do yourself a favor, meet with a good BLU, level up the Job, gear it with all the sets (STR DEX BLUSKILL PDT MDT REFRESH ACCU MACCU HASTE DA+TA StoreTP AGI MNK CUREPOTENCY+ CURERECEIVED FastCast.
Love this job, and the get frustrated by ppl saiyng you to level up SCH

Refer to my post, the limitations are real, after a certain point you're gonna have to fully focus on DDing if you want to contribute at all without holding the group back.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-27 11:30:11
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Ragnarok.Jukiro said: »
RDM and GEO can rotate stun easily, but the problem lies with RDM stunning over a long period due to having an E in dark magic skill. Geo/Indi-Focus from the GEO makes this a moot point though.

It should also be mentioned that Gramk-Droog can be more easily solo stunned than the other NMs and adherents in the zone due to his usually long delays between TP moves. Good to know if you're solely farming his drops at any point.

BLU is a great job for utility but as it was pointed out, its efficiency decreases the higher iLVL you get. Everything in this game is situational. You can strive for efficiency or work with what you have. I'm guessing most of the career BLU play with shitty mages and it skews their perspective.

BLU is not bad, but face the facts. Either you're contributing to DPS, or you're contributing to stun locking/sleeps, and that makes you mediocre in both fields.


I see, I wanted to rotate stuns cuz pt can get extra dmg boost from GEO and RDM! So it's better if 1 person can do the job of 2!
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dab 2014-09-27 12:14:06
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Ragnarok.Worldslost said: »
I out parse monks and some samurais

Riiiiiightttt.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-09-27 12:29:39
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Quetzalcoatl.Dab said: »
Ragnarok.Worldslost said: »
I out parse monks and some samurais

Riiiiiightttt.


You have no idea how PUG MNK SAM can parse sometimes >.>
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 Ragnarok.Hushigoshi
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By Ragnarok.Hushigoshi 2014-09-27 20:22:38
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Dab said: »
Ragnarok.Worldslost said: »
I out parse monks and some samurais

Riiiiiightttt.


You have no idea how PUG MNK SAM can parse sometimes >.>

Ragnarok has some shitty as all hell possible PUG MNKs and SAM. The worst are the bandwagon Koga SAMs that get outparsed by my thief. I take that back, the worst is me. Never invite me to anything.
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 Ragnarok.Worldslost
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By Ragnarok.Worldslost 2014-09-28 00:12:56
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Ragnarok.Gekuz said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
Do yourself a favor and lvl sch instead of going blu to incursion you'll make your group much better and a lot happier about the event.

Do yourself a favor, meet with a good BLU, level up the Job, gear it with all the sets (STR DEX BLUSKILL PDT MDT REFRESH ACCU MACCU HASTE DA+TA StoreTP AGI MNK CUREPOTENCY+ CURERECEIVED FastCast.
Love this job, and the get frustrated by ppl saiyng you to level up SCH
^^^^^
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-28 00:19:15
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Ragnarok.Gekuz said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
Do yourself a favor and lvl sch instead of going blu to incursion you'll make your group much better and a lot happier about the event.

Do yourself a favor, meet with a good BLU, level up the Job, gear it with all the sets (STR DEX BLUSKILL PDT MDT REFRESH ACCU MACCU HASTE DA+TA StoreTP AGI MNK CUREPOTENCY+ CURERECEIVED FastCast.
Love this job, and the get frustrated by ppl saiyng you to level up SCH

I have a very nice hammer, that doesn't mean it's the right tool to fix a pair of glasses.
 Ragnarok.Hotkarl
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By Ragnarok.Hotkarl 2014-09-28 00:53:28
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Ragnarok.Hushigoshi said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Dab said: »
Ragnarok.Worldslost said: »
I out parse monks and some samurais

Riiiiiightttt.


You have no idea how PUG MNK SAM can parse sometimes >.>

Ragnarok has some shitty as all hell possible PUG MNKs and SAM. The worst are the bandwagon Koga SAMs that get outparsed by my thief. I take that back, the worst is me. Never invite me to anything.
Not saying your wrong, but seeing bandwagon and mythic in the same sentence is kind of disheartening to me.. My broke *** casual self took 8 years to get my 1st relic :/
 Ragnarok.Crunkie
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By Ragnarok.Crunkie 2014-09-28 01:28:37
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There's just too many scrubs on Ragnarok.
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By Voren 2014-09-28 02:34:04
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FaeQueenCory said: »
People think eminent gear isn't ***because it's "117"...People think you NEED Ochain to tank 20SKCNMs on N.Neither of these things are True and no amount of explaining will convince people otherwise.

I whole heartedly agree. I personally watched as an Aegis95 PLD/WAR with full AF3+2 except head (zelus tiara) with the -PDT magian sword get smoked by Fuath in aby grauberg.

Once he got KO'd, my LS mate who was on PLD/DNC who had 2/5 AF3+2, 2/5 AF3 +1, and zelus tiara with -PDT magian sword and, here's the funny, weathering shield pulled Fuath, kept hate, and didn't die.

It's not just gear that makes a job, it's the player. I've seen crappy BLUs, hell I am a crappy BLU (I don't take mine to anything, just solo stuffs) and it's not the job's fault that it's not invited as much, it's player's fault.
 
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