Dirge replaced with Combrio (during magical effects, reduced magic damage)
Not sure exactly the meaning, need to dig into the translation better. It might be similar to the dynamis d weapon?
You Spoony Guide! - A Troubadour's Libretto
You Spoony Guide! - A Troubadour's Libretto
Sirvente replaced with * Conmania (during magic effects physical damage reduced)
Dirge replaced with Combrio (during magical effects, reduced magic damage)
Not sure exactly the meaning, need to dig into the translation better. It might be similar to the dynamis d weapon?
Dirge replaced with Combrio (during magical effects, reduced magic damage)
Not sure exactly the meaning, need to dig into the translation better. It might be similar to the dynamis d weapon?
[+]
Sounds like it adds PDT to Sirvente and MDT to Dirge through merits, but i'm not sure.
Yea, they probably wouldn't have called it Conmania/Combrio if it were just an enhancement to sirvente/dirge.
If it is similar the Su5 weapon it's a real hard sell over 5/5 Nitro.
If it is similar the Su5 weapon it's a real hard sell over 5/5 Nitro.
[+]
Information was posted on Two Man Cell about Dirge and Sirvente testing. Obviously this all might change with September's update.
Dirge
Dirge Article #1: Here
Dirge Article #2 (Followup): Here
Summary:
Sirvente
Sirvente Article: Here
Summary:
Dirge
Dirge Article #1: Here
Dirge Article #2 (Followup): Here
Summary:
Base spell is -10 Enmity, as we assumed.
All Songs + does not affect potency, only duration. Was it forgotten or intentional because it would be too powerful?
Followup article confirms the results that all songs does not affect potency.
Soul Voice does double the potency, with a cap of -50.
Confirmed that Merit Points are -3 per level, and when capped the song gives -22 enmity.
Bard's Cuffs Aug/Bihu Cuffs confirmed to give an additional -2 enmity per merit level, with -32 being the maximum if you have 5/5 merit upgrades while wearing the equipment during cast.
All of this information was added to BGwiki here: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Dirge (Before, the table was assuming that every +1 song gave an additional 10%.)
Sirvente
Sirvente Article: Here
Summary:
Base spell is -5% reduction, as we assumed.
This time, All Songs+ does affect potency by 1% per +1.
Soul Voice does double the potency, with a cap of -50.
Confirmed that Merit Points are -5% per level, and when capped the song gives -25% Degradation.
Bard's Roundlet Aug/Bihu Roundlet confirmed to give an additional -2% Degradation per merit level, with -35% being the maximum if you have 5/5 merit upgrades, your wearing the head during cast, and no +All Songs gear on. Technically the article confirms a situation with 5/5 merit upgrades, wearing the head piece during cast, and using all songs +5. The result was correct at -40% Degradation.
This effect was confirmed to be identical to Burtgang's (and pld emp legs/neck) "Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage" stat, and it stacks with the song. This allows pld to hit the 50% cap easily.
All of this information was added to BGwiki here: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Sirvente (Before, the table was actually spot on with our guessing that we did.)
[+]
What unexpected news about the merits!
Call me the voice out of the choir, but I'm kinda glad. Now I can sit on my 5/5 NiTro and feel calm of heart with my OCD lol.
No but seriously I was really expecting Song Macc and Song Duration, sorta glad we didn't, that way we won't really have any hard choice to make in our group 2 merits.
@Funkwork
Where does that detailed data concerning Dirge and Sirvente come from? Edit I mean it's a JP website and you provided the link, but are we to just believe them and that's it?
It kinda conflicts with the (small, ok) tests Comeatmebro published last year or whenever that was.
Two things come to mind:
1) Are these tests confirmed and verified 100% to be correct?
2) Even if they are, doesn't necessarily mean things will stay the same even after the patch.
With that said and assuming data is correct, is Dirge the only song that DOES get additional potency from Soul Voice but DOES NOT get additional potency from Song+?
Normally when a Song doesn't get additional potency from Song+ (just duration) gets double duration from Soul Voice.
Only exception to that being Scherzo that, appearently, works the opposite way of Dirge as in: it does get additional potency from song, but only double duration from SV.
So I guess Dirge is our second exception to the above mentioned rule?
Can't think of anything else really.
Call me the voice out of the choir, but I'm kinda glad. Now I can sit on my 5/5 NiTro and feel calm of heart with my OCD lol.
No but seriously I was really expecting Song Macc and Song Duration, sorta glad we didn't, that way we won't really have any hard choice to make in our group 2 merits.
@Funkwork
Where does that detailed data concerning Dirge and Sirvente come from? Edit I mean it's a JP website and you provided the link, but are we to just believe them and that's it?
It kinda conflicts with the (small, ok) tests Comeatmebro published last year or whenever that was.
Two things come to mind:
1) Are these tests confirmed and verified 100% to be correct?
2) Even if they are, doesn't necessarily mean things will stay the same even after the patch.
With that said and assuming data is correct, is Dirge the only song that DOES get additional potency from Soul Voice but DOES NOT get additional potency from Song+?
Normally when a Song doesn't get additional potency from Song+ (just duration) gets double duration from Soul Voice.
Only exception to that being Scherzo that, appearently, works the opposite way of Dirge as in: it does get additional potency from song, but only double duration from SV.
So I guess Dirge is our second exception to the above mentioned rule?
Can't think of anything else really.
[+]
If Dirge stays this way, btw, it's better to cast it with Marsyas since that would provide 10% more duration than Ghorn would.
Still feels kinda strange to have a Song with variable potency (SV doubles it) but with Song+ having absolutely no effect on it.
Really makes you think if it's meant to be or if it's something they never noticed and it slipped under their quality checks.
Guess we'll find out in a few days after the patch hits, supposing someone will ever find the will to test it.
Enmity tests sorta require specific and annoying setups to be thoroughfully tested.
Last detailed test I've seen on the topic was the enmity measurements for Utsusemi during Yonin made by some very helpful guy in the NIN thread.
Still feels kinda strange to have a Song with variable potency (SV doubles it) but with Song+ having absolutely no effect on it.
Really makes you think if it's meant to be or if it's something they never noticed and it slipped under their quality checks.
Guess we'll find out in a few days after the patch hits, supposing someone will ever find the will to test it.
Enmity tests sorta require specific and annoying setups to be thoroughfully tested.
Last detailed test I've seen on the topic was the enmity measurements for Utsusemi during Yonin made by some very helpful guy in the NIN thread.
This is a very reliable blog, which we have used in the past for data on other mechanics. He also details what he did to complete these tests.
Still sounds a bit strange and in conflict with Comeatmebro's data, which wasn't very detailed so I guess it's possible.
Still... so bizarre for Dirge to be the only song to behave that way.
Sure hope they're gonna "fix" it when the new version come, considering they'd have to implement the Gloves' bonus anyway.
Still... so bizarre for Dirge to be the only song to behave that way.
Sure hope they're gonna "fix" it when the new version come, considering they'd have to implement the Gloves' bonus anyway.
They seem like they'll become staple songs for some events. DPS jobs getting a viable path to full time enmity -50 while tanks getting -40% enmity loss is a huge tilt for long fights where pulling hate can be an issue. It's been possible to do this pre patch but I felt most bards were reluctant to give up their nt merits.
Does Sirvente help you preserve some enmity from moves with a hate reset?
[+]
Lepetit89 said: »
Basically, NiTro all the way.
While you can live without 5/5 NiTro if you look just at the utility they bring directly, the problem most people tend to forget about is the up to 15 additional seconds duration you get with the related 2 Relic pieces.
As every bard knows, those 15 seconds are *VITAL* if you have to partyswap and sing 5 songs in each party.
Especially in laggy zones, they save your life.
The last week I went back to 5 Night 1 Troub and it was SUCH A PAIN to have shorter duration, I tell ya. I forgot how valuable those 15 seconds can be in most situations.
So tl;dr
We can all be happy our new merit categories are crap.
[+]
Minor tidbit just cause I didn't see it mentioned anywhere: the new bard merits are italian words
Con Anima = With Soul
Con Brio = With Vivacity
Brought to you by the Office of Useless Information.
Con Anima = With Soul
Con Brio = With Vivacity
Brought to you by the Office of Useless Information.
[+]
I assume its just a flat 1~5% p or m dt and not per song in effect like the dyna weapons are?
It's tecnically 10% if you have the related gear and 5/5 points into it.
We don't even know if it's PDT/MDT tier1 or tier2, but it's safe to assume tier1.
10% for each song would be quite insane but since you still have the 50% cap I mean, after 5 songs it stops being useful.
If it breaks the cap because it's tier2 *DT (which I seriously doubt) then I guess it could be very very useful for some fights, but that's it.
We don't even know if it's PDT/MDT tier1 or tier2, but it's safe to assume tier1.
10% for each song would be quite insane but since you still have the 50% cap I mean, after 5 songs it stops being useful.
If it breaks the cap because it's tier2 *DT (which I seriously doubt) then I guess it could be very very useful for some fights, but that's it.
yeah i highly doubt its II, still just a thought that if it was per song, 15~20(more if 1 hr and 2nd brd i guess) without any changes to gear aint too bad a deal if it indeed worked that way.
It kinda depends on how you use your bard and what sort of content you do with it.
As I mentioned before giving up the 15 additional seconds you get from going 5/5 NiTro is way too much of a loss for any situation where you're supposed to swap pt and give 5 songs to multiple pts.
Really, especially in very laggy content that time is never enough I tell ya, it's even worse without the +15 secs.
The DT on the other hand is nice but, I mean, other than a couple of niches it's nothing that you can't obtain with just gear.
For instance I have loads of Meva and 50% DT in my BRD idle gear, and some points of refresh too.
If you go full Ayanmo you get lots of DT as well and it's not that hard to get close to 50% with some minor gear sacrifice.
Those were just two quick examples but my point is that it's not really that hard to reach 50% DT on BRD to make those merits look so incredibly attractive.
...things are gonna be different if they break the cap of course, but I doubt.
As I mentioned before giving up the 15 additional seconds you get from going 5/5 NiTro is way too much of a loss for any situation where you're supposed to swap pt and give 5 songs to multiple pts.
Really, especially in very laggy content that time is never enough I tell ya, it's even worse without the +15 secs.
The DT on the other hand is nice but, I mean, other than a couple of niches it's nothing that you can't obtain with just gear.
For instance I have loads of Meva and 50% DT in my BRD idle gear, and some points of refresh too.
If you go full Ayanmo you get lots of DT as well and it's not that hard to get close to 50% with some minor gear sacrifice.
Those were just two quick examples but my point is that it's not really that hard to reach 50% DT on BRD to make those merits look so incredibly attractive.
...things are gonna be different if they break the cap of course, but I doubt.
Nah im not tryign to say theyre anything great, niche at best, just thinking that if it did work like that itd atleast have some niche value based on what you're planning to use brd for. As it currently stands just a flat 5~10%(which i assume that 10% is only achieved if you use the specific armor for it whatever which piece is) is pretty pointless indeed
Asura.Sechs said: »
Lepetit89 said: »
Basically, NiTro all the way.
While you can live without 5/5 NiTro if you look just at the utility they bring directly, the problem most people tend to forget about is the up to 15 additional seconds duration you get with the related 2 Relic pieces.
As every bard knows, those 15 seconds are *VITAL* if you have to partyswap and singe 5 songs in each party.
Especially in laggy zones, they save your life.
The last week I went back to 5 Night 1 Troub and it was SUCH A PAIN to have shorter duration, I tell ya. I forgot how valuable those 15 seconds can be in most situations.
So tl;dr
We can all be happy our new merit categories are crap.
sing your 5 dummy songs, pop SV, Pop NiTro and you should be good to get through both parties even in laggy areas, if you do 4 dummy songs and start popping buffs you will probably run out of time.
Ofcourse if the other bard is a slow piece of ***then it doesn't matter.
Asura.Meliorah said: »
sing your 5 dummy songs, pop SV, Pop NiTro and you should be good to get through both parties even in laggy areas
Alas it's not always the same.
In Divergence zones lag can be insane at times (at least on Asura, not sure if it's any different on other servers).
Sometimes we get over 10+ seconds delay on our actions, with some simply getting lost in the realm of lost-packets, with you having to spam the action hoping it will eventually fire off.
Plus you're not taking into consideration Pianissimo stuff.
What if you have to pianissimo one or more songs?
What if you want to cast a couple of long-time-non-resistable debuffs on a boss you're about to engage?
What if you want to cast a few random songs on a third party?
What if the the other bard uses CDs 3 seconds after you?
What if you get an invite 2 seconds later than you should?
So many things can go wrong in a realistic situation. I find honestly the default timers are almost never satisfingly enough for me to feel safe.
The less songs the safer of course, it goes without saying.
[+]
Regardless to all this blah-blah the point is that, as we all found out the hard way, reducing the merits in either Nightingale or Troubadour can be worth it if you get something in return.
Dirge and Sirvente can be very useful so it's undeniable at least in some circumstances it was totally worth the trouble concerning the inferior duration of NiTro coming from less merit points spent in them.
But the point is that now there's even less reason (potentially no reason at all) to go any less than 5/5 in NiTro.
What do you get in return?
Some PDT or some MDT?
Big deal, huh!
Now if we find out it's tier 2 xDT ok, it's gonna be a different story. But as long as it will be tier 1 then I *personally* don't see it worth the trouble of renouncing to those 15 additional seconds of duration for NiTro.
Just my two cents, YMMV etc. etc.
Dirge and Sirvente can be very useful so it's undeniable at least in some circumstances it was totally worth the trouble concerning the inferior duration of NiTro coming from less merit points spent in them.
But the point is that now there's even less reason (potentially no reason at all) to go any less than 5/5 in NiTro.
What do you get in return?
Some PDT or some MDT?
Big deal, huh!
Now if we find out it's tier 2 xDT ok, it's gonna be a different story. But as long as it will be tier 1 then I *personally* don't see it worth the trouble of renouncing to those 15 additional seconds of duration for NiTro.
Just my two cents, YMMV etc. etc.
"...while singing a beneficial song."
InB4 it's only WHILE singing lol
InB4 it's only WHILE singing lol
Cerberus.Mrkillface said: »
"...while singing a beneficial song."
InB4 it's only WHILE singing lol
InB4 it's only WHILE singing lol
Of course this has to be thoroughfully verified but it's quite likely going to be just like I said.
Bismarck.Sterk said: »
Does Sirvente help you preserve some enmity from moves with a hate reset?
This is an interesting thought, but since the effects of Sirvente seem to indicate preserving enmity loss from natural means, (CE and VE, preserving enmity lost from taking damage or actions done to you by the target and preserving enmity lost from passage of time) it’s safe to assume no, since hate reset could be said to be a separate form of enmity loss from how CE/VE normally decrease, and instead puts these enmity values at a specific number.
but I mean, like has been brought out, there’s always a possibility that things could have changed this update
Asura.Sechs said: »
Cerberus.Mrkillface said: »
"...while singing a beneficial song."
InB4 it's only WHILE singing lol
InB4 it's only WHILE singing lol
Of course this has to be thoroughfully verified but it's quite likely going to be just like I said.
go find a cactuar for us Sechs 8)
There aren't many sources of "reduces enmity loss" in this game.
One is the RUN Empy body (nobody performed tests to see how it works), another thing is the JA "Sentinel" from PLD, then there's Sirvente. Anything else?
Can't think of anything else atm.
On a hunch I completely agree with Bruno. It probably reduces the rate at which Enmity decreases by getting hit or over time.
Pretty confident a move that completely resets hate would circumvein that, but then again who knows until someone tests it! :-P
One is the RUN Empy body (nobody performed tests to see how it works), another thing is the JA "Sentinel" from PLD, then there's Sirvente. Anything else?
Can't think of anything else atm.
On a hunch I completely agree with Bruno. It probably reduces the rate at which Enmity decreases by getting hit or over time.
Pretty confident a move that completely resets hate would circumvein that, but then again who knows until someone tests it! :-P
We already discussed this. Sirvente behaves (or, did behave pre update today) just like the Burtgang's/PLD EMP Neck/PLD EMP Legs. The effect even stacks to cap at 50%.
[+]
So it's just reduced CE loss while taking damage and does absolutely nothing for VE's reduction over time?
How was this tested? Out of curiosity, it's not like I'm not buying it.
How was this tested? Out of curiosity, it's not like I'm not buying it.
Asura.Sechs said: »
So it's just reduced CE loss while taking damage and does absolutely nothing for VE's reduction over time?
How was this tested? Out of curiosity, it's not like I'm not buying it.
How was this tested? Out of curiosity, it's not like I'm not buying it.
Here is the original testing method for Burtgang/other PLD gear/CE Enmity: http://vanafratello.seesaa.net/article/464612932.html
Here is what was found with Sirvente active under different strengths:
ロイエ100ダメージ(累積ヘイト量606±5)→744±5の減少：魔物のシルベント無し
ロイエ137ダメージ(累積ヘイト量828±5)→522±5の減少：魔物のシルベント5振り
ロイエ150ダメージ(累積ヘイト量906±5)→444±5の減少：5振り&ＢＩラウンドリト+3
ロイエ150ダメージ(累積ヘイト量906±5)→444±5の減少：5振り&ＢＩラウンドリト+3&全歌+7
ロイエ162ダメージ(累積ヘイト量978±5)→372±5の減少：ソウルボイス
[+]
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