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SCH>BLM after update? . .
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:11:00
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. just because sch doesnt have c6+ doesnt make it half a whm, while yes after the update sch will be a very relevant healer right now they have spells such as regenga 5 which is a VERY nice HoT. No, but lack of cureskin and only 1 (maybe 2 now) real cure does. im not saying sch would be better than whm, since if sch ever got cureskin sch will hit #1 spot on healing. I'm just taking it as 50% as useful as a whm as it more or less being completely pointless to heal when even before the update that is not the case.  i lol'd thanks i needed that.
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 1549
By Sylph.Liltrouble 2012-03-26 14:12:46
Have'nt this "fight" been going on since level 75? >_>
Main reason people invite black mages to a fight (usually, if it's not for procs) is for Stun.
So yeah..
They'r both excellent nukers, why not just leave it at that? This^^ If Sch's were so pro at nuking and effective, Blm's would of been obsolete a long time ago. When people are forming for Botulus Rex, why not invite a bunch of Sch's, instead of Blm's?!? Hmm... I bet the people forming are just ignorant (sarcasm). Why invite Whm's for that matter? Sch's are SOOOO superior. Hell, let's just do away with all mages jobs entirely. Well, except Smn. But I bet a Sch/Smn would make them obsolete as well! Oh my, the possibilities are virtually endless!!
[+]
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:12:48
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting.
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:13:17
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Bcuz ALL BLM has to do to keep zerging is swap staff while your SCH changes staff,obi,weather,re-use JAs to buff nuke and rebuff yourself else youll pull hate and MPK etc etc
Nope. Why? This:
SpellCast.
Perpetuance Weather before Zerg
JA are immediate i.e
ja "Ebullience" <me> <wait 0.4>
/ma "Thunder IV" <t> (not that I use JA and spell casting on same Macro)
Try playing SCH before you comment your BS.
"All BLM has to do to keep Zering is to Swap staff"
No Precast?
No Equip Changes for Stun?
No PDT/MDT changes for grabbing hate?
fail.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:14:54
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Bcuz ALL BLM has to do to keep zerging is swap staff while your SCH changes staff,obi,weather,re-use JAs to buff nuke and rebuff yourself else youll pull hate and MPK etc etc
Nope. Why? This:
SpellCast.
Perpetuance Weather before Zerg
JA are immediate i.e
ja "Ebullience" <me> <wait 0.4>
/ma "Thunder IV" <t> (not that I use JA and spell casting on same Macro)
Try playing SCH before you comment your BS.
"All BLM has to do to keep Zering is to Swap staff"
No Precast?
No Equip Changes for Stun?
No PDT/MDT changes for grabbing hate?
fail. Einstein, he was referring to the fact that SCH has to switch elements to maintain continual nuking.
[+]
 Leviathan.Prototyp
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 163
By Leviathan.Prototyp 2012-03-26 14:15:11
@Everyone saying BLM damage isn't important.
As of nows content, bar Botulus Rex you can think this and not be too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, but atleast where DDs aren't immortal is concerned, blm damage will be a good source of damage in taking down tough content
I don't remember seeing an army of DDs in my HNM LS on Tiamat etc.
 Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2012-03-26 14:15:48
how is this thread still going on page 6. this is like the X^15 thread on sch vs blm....
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:15:51
Have'nt this "fight" been going on since level 75? >_>
Main reason people invite black mages to a fight (usually, if it's not for procs) is for Stun.
So yeah..
They'r both excellent nukers, why not just leave it at that? This^^ If Sch's were so pro at nuking and effective, Blm's would of been obsolete a long time ago. When people are forming for Botulus Rex, why not invite a bunch of Sch's, instead of Blm's?!? Hmm... I bet the people forming are just ignorant (sarcasm). Why invite Whm's for that matter? Sch's are SOOOO superior. Hell, let's just do away with all mages jobs entirely. Well, except Smn. But I bet a Sch/Smn would make them obsolete as well! Oh my, the possibilities are virtually endless!!
Lol
People do invite a bunch of SCH instead of BLMs as DDs for Botulus,
What groups have you been doing BR with?
BLM are there to proc for BR not to DD. leave the DD to SCHs
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:16:30
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. well i used to use a spellcast script where i could toggle which strategems i wanted for my next cast that i was toggling in the middle of the cast i was currently doing, so when i started casting the next nuke they charges would spin off simultaneously at the start of the nuke. i stopped using it because it parses wrong more often than not and in many of the cases i do not find my self in the position to constantly cycle nukes as of late.
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:17:25
Leviathan.Prototyp said: »@Everyone saying BLM damage isn't important.
As of nows content, bar Botulus Rex you can think this and not be too HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, but atleast where DDs aren't immortal is concerned, blm damage will be a good source of damage in taking down tough content
I don't remember seeing an army of DDs in my HNM LS on Tiamat etc. Corsair
By Latifah 2012-03-26 14:18:10
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:18:18
Have'nt this "fight" been going on since level 75? >_>
Main reason people invite black mages to a fight (usually, if it's not for procs) is for Stun.
So yeah..
They'r both excellent nukers, why not just leave it at that? This^^ If Sch's were so pro at nuking and effective, Blm's would of been obsolete a long time ago. When people are forming for Botulus Rex, why not invite a bunch of Sch's, instead of Blm's?!? Hmm... I bet the people forming are just ignorant (sarcasm). Why invite Whm's for that matter? Sch's are SOOOO superior. Hell, let's just do away with all mages jobs entirely. Well, except Smn. But I bet a Sch/Smn would make them obsolete as well! Oh my, the possibilities are virtually endless!!
Lol
People do invite a bunch of SCH instead of BLMs as DDs for Botulus,
What groups have you been doing BR with?
BLM are there to proc for BR not to DD. leave the DD to SCHs orz
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:18:19
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Bcuz ALL BLM has to do to keep zerging is swap staff while your SCH changes staff,obi,weather,re-use JAs to buff nuke and rebuff yourself else youll pull hate and MPK etc etc
Nope. Why? This:
SpellCast.
Perpetuance Weather before Zerg
JA are immediate i.e
ja "Ebullience" <me> <wait 0.4>
/ma "Thunder IV" <t> (not that I use JA and spell casting on same Macro)
Try playing SCH before you comment your BS.
"All BLM has to do to keep Zering is to Swap staff"
No Precast?
No Equip Changes for Stun?
No PDT/MDT changes for grabbing hate?
fail. Einstein, he was referring to the fact that SCH has to switch elements to maintain continual nuking.
Howe many f**king times?? how many f**king times do I have to say this?
SCH with 80% FC can spam Tier V and IV spells OF THE SAME ELEMENT
I.e Blizzard V then Blizzard IV then Blizzard V then BLizzard IV
do you see?
Do i have to actually draw a diagram?
Phoenix.Bomber
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 457
By Phoenix.Bomber 2012-03-26 14:18:43
Have'nt this "fight" been going on since level 75? >_>
Main reason people invite black mages to a fight (usually, if it's not for procs) is for Stun.
So yeah..
They'r both excellent nukers, why not just leave it at that? This^^ If Sch's were so pro at nuking and effective, Blm's would of been obsolete a long time ago. When people are forming for Botulus Rex, why not invite a bunch of Sch's, instead of Blm's?!? Hmm... I bet the people forming are just ignorant (sarcasm). Why invite Whm's for that matter? Sch's are SOOOO superior. Hell, let's just do away with all mages jobs entirely. Well, except Smn. But I bet a Sch/Smn would make them obsolete as well! Oh my, the possibilities are virtually endless!!
Lol
People do invite a bunch of SCH instead of BLMs as DDs for Botulus,
What groups have you been doing BR with?
BLM are there to proc for BR not to DD. leave the DD to SCHs Now i'm sure you are trolling lol...
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-03-26 14:19:54
I'm sure that had absolutely nothing to do with Tiamat being 30 levels higher than us at the time, being able to absolutely steamroll the most defensive player if it felt so inclined, or the flying. No relation at all.
Server: Siren
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Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:20:05
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg It isn't that ebullience slows you down, but the act of pausing to use a ja slows you down.
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:20:52
Howe many f**king times?? how many f**king times do I have to say this?
SCH with 80% FC can spam Tier V and IV spells OF THE SAME ELEMENT
I.e Blizzard V then Blizzard IV then Blizzard V then BLizzard IV
do you see?
Do i have to actually draw a diagram?
do it because as a sch main i have never been in the situation where i can rotate spells 45454545 of the same element. At this point i am sure you are full of ***.
[+]
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:21:12
Spoilered because getting long: Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Bcuz ALL BLM has to do to keep zerging is swap staff while your SCH changes staff,obi,weather,re-use JAs to buff nuke and rebuff yourself else youll pull hate and MPK etc etc
Nope. Why? This:
SpellCast.
Perpetuance Weather before Zerg
JA are immediate i.e
ja "Ebullience" <me> <wait 0.4>
/ma "Thunder IV" <t> (not that I use JA and spell casting on same Macro)
Try playing SCH before you comment your BS.
"All BLM has to do to keep Zering is to Swap staff"
No Precast?
No Equip Changes for Stun?
No PDT/MDT changes for grabbing hate?
fail. Einstein, he was referring to the fact that SCH has to switch elements to maintain continual nuking.
Howe many f**king times?? how many f**king times do I have to say this?
SCH with 80% FC can spam Tier V and IV spells OF THE SAME ELEMENT
I.e Blizzard V then Blizzard IV then Blizzard V then BLizzard IV
do you see?
Do i have to actually draw a diagram? Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Leviathan.Prototyp
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 163
By Leviathan.Prototyp 2012-03-26 14:21:18
kk legion mobs not gonna be higher lvl than us ty for enlightenment
By Latifah 2012-03-26 14:21:53
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg It isn't that ebullience slows you down, but the act of pausing to use a ja slows you down. it doesn't, unless you're out of stratagems and need to wait for cooldown, it's not like you will end up with no stratagem after this update anyways
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-03-26 14:22:39
Leviathan.Prototyp said: »kk legion mobs not gonna be higher lvl than us ty for enlightenment
I don't even know how to address your inability to discern the differences between level 75 fights against wyrms and.. anything we do now.
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:22:46
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg It isn't that ebullience slows you down, but the act of pausing to use a ja slows you down.
You blink it out.
Yes, You disable Blinkmenot before playng SCH.
I use about 1/2 second using ebullience.I hit my ebullience macro, blink out the animation and then straight into my nuke.
Phoenix.Bomber
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 457
By Phoenix.Bomber 2012-03-26 14:22:55
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Bcuz ALL BLM has to do to keep zerging is swap staff while your SCH changes staff,obi,weather,re-use JAs to buff nuke and rebuff yourself else youll pull hate and MPK etc etc
Nope. Why? This:
SpellCast.
Perpetuance Weather before Zerg
JA are immediate i.e
ja "Ebullience" <me> <wait 0.4>
/ma "Thunder IV" <t> (not that I use JA and spell casting on same Macro)
Try playing SCH before you comment your BS.
"All BLM has to do to keep Zering is to Swap staff"
No Precast?
No Equip Changes for Stun?
No PDT/MDT changes for grabbing hate?
fail. Einstein, he was referring to the fact that SCH has to switch elements to maintain continual nuking.
Howe many f**king times?? how many f**king times do I have to say this?
SCH with 80% FC can spam Tier V and IV spells OF THE SAME ELEMENT
I.e Blizzard V then Blizzard IV then Blizzard V then BLizzard IV
do you see?
Do i have to actually draw a diagram? Sorry there man but SE didn't make all mobs in game weak to a single element specially Legion that stuff is thrown at you and they all are different your perpetuation goes out the window
Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-03-26 14:23:19
You cannot "blink" away JA delay.
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:23:41
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg It isn't that ebullience slows you down, but the act of pausing to use a ja slows you down. it doesn't When you press Ebullience, the BLM presses Blizzaja. Then you press BlizzIV.
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:23:47
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg It isn't that ebullience slows you down, but the act of pausing to use a ja slows you down. it doesn't, unless you're out of stratagems and need to wait for cooldown, it's not like you will end up with no stratagem after this update anyways it does BUT only by milliseconds the delay between hitting the ja and casting the spell is negligible as you can cast during the animation of the ja.
Caitsith.Pebe
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By Caitsith.Pebe 2012-03-26 14:24:41
You still have not commented on the points of your hate management with continual nuking on sch at a rate at which blm can with enmity douse.
And like i said, Blms get stun. Which is like iceing on an already delicious cake.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud you for explaining how amazing sch nuking is(been trying to convince my ls how good sch can be for ages) in comparison to blm, however trying to say the SCH can replace BLM is just wrong. Sch was never meant to replace blm and whm, it has never replaced blm(there was a time in aht uhgan when it replaced whm for a bit), and it will never replace blm.
P.S. I swear to God if they nerf Ebullience and Klimaform because of you I will hunt you down and murder you myself. >.>
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:24:53
So many people know just jack sh*t about scholar and what it is capable of, its frightening.
/thread please, its turning into a nonsense and will no doubt quickly turn into a personal slagging match.
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:25:19
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay Well, I know the JA delay won't prevent you from casting a spell, but it does slow you down because while the SCH is going for his ja, the BLM has already started casting. You are not making sense at all since when a /ja (ebullience) slow down your nuke?, if it does .. you Can't notice it and still deal more dmg It isn't that ebullience slows you down, but the act of pausing to use a ja slows you down. it doesn't, unless you're out of stratagems and need to wait for cooldown, it's not like you will end up with no stratagem after this update anyways it does BUT only by milliseconds the delay between hitting the ja and casting the spell is negligible as you can cast during the animation of the ja. Well, that is a long time at 80% FC
With SE's spoken acknowledgment that future contact will not be over-reliant on proccing (thank god . . ) will this mean that SCH>BLM for most content?..
Lets have a look at Pro's of each:
SCH/RDM:
> 15-20% more damage Per nuke than BLM (even BLM casting Thundaja)
> Can reach 80% FC now with Rubeus, so DoT is significantly better than BLM.
> Better MP Management.
> SCH Helices bump up DoT even more.
> Can quickly switch to C4 set to heal for 800+ (BLM wont have Healing Magic Skill unless they /SCH)
> Access to Kaustra (not that i ever use this tbh, might be useful in Legion) and Embrava.
> With FC set up and Haste no longer need to have "Filler Spell" inbetween spamming Thunder/Blizzard V and IV".
BLM:
>Stun.
>Enmity Douse.
>Manafont very useful for emergencies.
>....
. .Are we to see the advent of everyone jumping on SCH bandwagon?
Food for thought indeed. :)
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