Why Are The JP Players So... THAT WAY

Here's a hand grenade:

JP players have some of the most antisocial practices in our little online social game.

We've all seen search comments like <English> <Party> <No Thanks>, refusal to use the autotranslate function and even just plain being ignored by JP players no matter what you do.

I've seen posts on FFXI forums about how JP players think the game was RUINED when it was opened up to the US and that they think that we're slackers and don't know how to play the game (although I have to say some JP parties are pretty good).

It strikes me as elitist/snobbish/xenophobic for JP players to do that and it kind of spoils the game experience sometimes. The thing that really kills me though is that some US players take on the same airs and do the same thing! (If you're not in their linkshell or if you have bad gear, etc.)

Since I'm Japanese but raised in the US this is driving me schizo.

What do y'all think?

I know of some people (who shall remain name......ah what the hell, Soup, Smokeone, Reece before he grew up, just to name a few) who think they are the greatest thing to happen to the game since it was first started, and they are English speakers.

So basically, its not a Japanese thing. People are going to be like that regardless of where they are from, you probably have just met a few bad players.

P.S. I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't experienced anything like that from Japanese players, and I'm currently living in Japan, so I get to play during their prime time every day!

Ok, gearwise I might kick them out if it is so easy to get better gear (RDMs at level 60 should NOT be curing with a level 9 club, because getting light staff is so cheep now anyway)

I invite BSTs in parties that are not burns (i.e. you wouldn't want a BST rep in a manaburn).

I don't care if the person who invites me doesn't speak english, it just means that I get to be quiet for a while.

If JP want to exp in JP only parties, they usually do it in a LS party (which basically is the same as other LS parties).

There is nothing wrong about that though. Let people be the way they want to be.

Just ignore those people and enjoy the game. And never forget: For some guys FF XI is the ONLY thing they are good in...and then they behave like ***...which is pretty pathetic...they don't even know what the word "social" means...be aware of that and have fun :)

But I think, there are many nice people in this game.

"So basically, its not a Japanese thing. People are going to be like that regardless of where they are from"

True Strike! :)

First thing about why Japanese people would think we ruined the game is because SE did not release their intentions of making the game open to other languages before doing it. They pretty much thrust upon existing players people from around the world along with a limited auto translate function. So, discontent I fully understand.

But, I do feel you in the dislike of English players since I do live in Japan and play in their prime time everyday. Why won't they give us a chance? It's probably due to the fact, as you so mentioned, many of us English players act the same way. It only takes a few English people to harass Japanese for almost the whole Japanese community in game to slowly hate us >_> and as a result, lots of English people hate them back.

It's a crappy vicious cycle but it's how it'll always be unless we all decide to not be influenced by popular opinion.

Again, Asura does not have this problem.

Something wrong with your servers?

Are you sure you don't have this problem or are you just not seeing it that much cuz it exists regardless whether you "personally" see it or not.

Not to be demeaning or critical of you but this topic wouldn't be so heated and debated over if it wasn't a server wide deal.

I concur, it wouldn't be a heated debate if it wasn't a problem on your servers.

Just it isn't a problem on mine.

But then again, Asurans blame the Japanese if we lose Beseiged, blame the Japanese if we don't have all the areas for Sandy in the past on Campaign, blame the Japanese if somebody farts at the wrong time (usually during a HNM hunt).
But thats Asura's problem ;p

Didn't mean in the above post that your servers are personally responsible for Japanese/English enmity towards each other, just wondering if its only on a select few servers or is Asura one of the "lucky few"?

Hmm maybe tension and conflict have settled on your server so it's almost nonexistant. I wish that were the case on every server xD

But all it ever takes is just a few bad players from any language or part of the world to stir up trouble.

The "Japanese only" thing has gotten better over ther years. I remember a few years ago when I was the only whm looking for party and they needed me. When I got to the dunes and was not JP they kicked me. Since then it has not happened. Nowadays I get invites pretty good with JP and nonJP players. I have seen it where there were some badass JP players but I have also seen some bad *** US players also. it pretty much comes down to individuals if you see the message JP only dont even bother and you will probably never see them again.

I've seen a few where they say JP only.. Then again if I sit lfg when JP are on (which I mostly am because of my work schedule) I will get picked up by other JP parties. Even on my PUP I tend to get picked up on JP more than NA.

Check out this link: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Servers

This is the reason that Asura's "culture" is different than the other servers. It was opened a year and a half after the original servers, so therefore it didn't have an established JP population at NA release. Sure, I've seen "JP only" and "<English> <party> <No thanks.>" in a few /seacoms, but it doesn't seem anywhere near as prevalent as on the original servers.

I've met plenty of nice people and plenty of jackasses of all nationalities on Asura.

It's a shame there's so many 'antisocial' types in this MMO, granted since it's worldwide there's a lot of cultural differences and unless we (the playerbase) as a whole do their part and compromise a little (which has been happening over the years!) then we could probably cut the elitism as it were down to a minimum.

As an EU (Now US player - thanks marriage! :P) I have to admit there's been times when I've been so embarrassed by the actions of my fellow party members toward foreign players, whether it be for lack of using the auto translate when conversing with their native players etc. I remember one occasion in whitegate a guy chewed out a japanese player for /sh recruiting for a mission, asking for japanese only players to join him. I had to drop the guy a /tell and politely explain that the reason he was asking for japanese only players wasn't so much the elitism factor, but it would be a lot easier to go over battle strategy without the use of auto translate, since that function - even though it is vast, doesn't encorporate all the necessary phrases.

I remember reading the JPbutton topic on BG a while ago, and it was really awesome to see the replies from Japanese players there about why they'd prefer japanese only parties, one main reason was "We pay to play this game and relax, we don't want to struggle with a language we're not good at." Usually I'm a pretty placid and easy going person, I'll put a lot of things down to "Well, that must just be how they are" and get on with things instead of worrying/causing a ruckus over things, but it was nice to see some nice solid reasons behind why foregn (not jus the japanese!) can be the way they are sometimes. (Though I am not ruling out the possibility of them just being an asshat, but we have players like that regardless of which country we hail from ;) )

Aaaaand wall of text done lol, sorry for rambling on there^^;

-Rin/Israfel

From personal experience, the language barrier that prevents the Japanese and English cultures from getting along is something neither side is really trying hard to resolve. The Japanese side just plain refuse to try and get along with English players, and make the point to segregate themselves from them as much as possible. The English side spends all its time complaining about the Japanese community and putting them down because they think it's the status quo.

I have many Japanese friends in this game, all of which I fully respect, admire and get along with, and them me. I've never once deliberately made the point to argue with a Japanese player "just because he spoke in squiggles". People just need to stop acting like such morons and make an effort to get along.

You wouldn't walk into the nearest supermarket and start insulting someone because they said something that's not English, would you?

Ah, but of course. This is just a game after all...

Well said Woooooodum :)

Ive found as many snobby JPs has I have NAs to be honest. The English-Only seacoms, I can understand to an extent. I was invited to a JP party once and I hated it. Sure the xp was good and it was efficient but it felt so lonely to have them talking away and I didnt know what they were saying or I how I was doing. Now, that's not to say I'll start putting NA-Only in my seacom, but just that I can understand how some people would just want to party with people they can talk to.

On the other hand, lumping each JP person in with the 'snobby hates NA' category is just as bad as lumping each NA into the 'pushy arrogant' category. I've met a few JP players who are not only friendly to NA but make obvious attempts to talk to and be polite to me, even knowing full well I am NA. There is one JP Blm on my server that I had duo'd with for a few levels a year ago, and even today she /waves when she sees me and tries to make very basic conversation.

SE just introduced the worldwide play all wrong. JPs were in their own little world and then suddenly NA were thrust into their laps without any warning. So I can understand, to an extent, the hostility. However, that was years ago and I wish we could all just get along.

You should definitely read The JP Button (I've lost the addy but Im sure someone here will know it, or you can google it) which tries hard to bridge that gap and even asks JP players to explain some of the attitudes and opinions they have of us.

Also, should definitely read the Auto-translator guide on wiki. It has an indepth description of exactly what it is you're saying when you add those brackets. Some auto-translated things that seem to make perfect sense to us are lost in translation when translated to Japanese. One thing I never knew was that apparently, "You're Welcome" is not often used because to say it is like acknowledging you did something good, which goes against their humility. "np" is more appropriate, because it shouldn't have been a problem to do a good deed and help someone out.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Auto-Translator:_In-Depth/All_Categories

Just a thought...being socialable would be the interaction with others.

How would a person that only speaks Japanese be able to speak/interact with 5 other people that only speak Engrish.

If you want to have that JP person join your party this normally works for me, atleast for meripo.

/t NAME {Hello} {Bard}2 {party} {do you need it?} {japenese} OK

You'd be surprised how many "JP only" seacom's disappear after that.

^^lots of goodies in here English speakers or any of the auto-translate users should take a look over.

edit: who knew [Please let me join] could be dirty. lol.

Dont get me started on this... I seen a JP shout for Nyzul Isle run that was begging for a theif for 30 minutes.

I finally felt bad and decided to answer their shout. My thief is fully merited with feint 5/5
dagger 8/8
assassin armlets (TH +2) and very respectable gear.

What do I get as a reply after I tell them all that with translator?

"I'm sorry JP onry" _._

I wanted to reach out n touch someone....

The end of that made me laugh! :D

i'm still browsing through http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Auto-Translator:_In-Depth/All_Categories and found this to be particularly hilarious.

[hole] - Notes: In Japanese colloquialisms, this actually does refer to the butt. This does not, however, suddenly make {Mithra} {fun} {hole} jokes funny

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=551

I reccomended everyone to read this, it gives a very good perspective. :3

Why is English only snobby?

I would rather play with people who speak my language, and I don't get offended that someone else would do the same.

Not everything can be said easily with auto translate and when you play to win this can be a problem.

What is even funnier are people who get bent out of shape about this stuff, check out this guy:
http://www.debito.org/misawaexclusions.html

What a loser.

I wouldn't go so far as to call him a loser. Imagine the reaction in America if someone were to put up a "Whites Only" sign somewhere. Different cultures I suppose. We have different beliefs and values and one of those, for us, is All Men Are Created Equal, so it's hard for us to wrap our head around a society that blatantly excludes a certain people.

All you can do though is shake your head and move on, I guess. You're not going to change anyone, just have to try to understand them.

Edit: Not trying to say all Japanese people are like this, just that I can understand why someone would be offended when they run into the few that *are*

If you worked really hard to get the best equipment and you had been playing for 4-6 years and were really good at your job then maybe you could understand how it could piss you off to see a sh*tty drg in full AF at lvl 65 talking in English and ruining your exp.

And like a few others have said it's not just JP players it's NA too. It's anyone who has played the game for a long time and is sick of people who don't put in the effort to play their job right.

If you could filter out the bad players and only party with the good ones wouldn't you? Not everyone plays just for fun. Some like to have fun and get the best exp possible lol /end elitism speech.

Autotranslate does not work as great as some english speaking players think. Yes it can get the point across for the most part but lots, if not a great majority of english players, take it way to far. You cannot form entire sentances with autotranslate, and have them make sense to Japanese speaking players.

I'm not the best at japanese but I know enough to tell whats offensive and what makes no damn sense at all.

If I had to take a stab at the problem; I'd say the issue I list above (does not make sense) and "people want to play with someone they understand" is the issue, not racism.

Honestly, I'd rather play with someone that knew what I meant when I said "my daughter just puked, I'll be right back" or something else that takes priority over a game. Hell, the other day I accepted an invite, the person asked me to come to Jueno and halfway there I got a phone call from my friend who's car wouldn't start (its -35F without the windchill here now btw) and I drove to pick him up fast so he wouldn't freeze to death. When I got back, I had a huge list of /tell's from the person who invited me bitching "I'm never inviting you again!" "I'm blisting you!" when they had no clue what I was gone.

I don't notice the problem anymore myself, however I can remember a time it was incredibly difficult for me. Back in 2004 when I was nearing my first 75 (PLD), I could hardly find anyone with the time of day to join into my party. Mostly due to the fact that Asura was a brand new expansion server (only 6 months old or so at the time) and the only other high level people were JP players. Countless times I received JP Pt ONLY replies.

We do that in America.

Go to a nice establishment sometime, there is usually someone at the door who decides who gets in and doesn't get in. That person will make their decision based off a variety of factors including race.

When you go to a club, you're paying for atmosphere. An atmosphere that usually doesn't involve a lot of foreign people and instead has people who fit a certain profile.

You don't have a god given right to party with whoever you want.

One person telling you you can't get in is one thing, having it blatantly posted is still a culture shock to anyone.

I didn't say it wasn't practiced, I said I understood how seeing such a giant sign could make you feel ostracized.