Why Are The JP Players So... THAT WAY

I've seen japanese players with the [english] [no thanks] msg in their search comment, but I don't personally take offense to it, each to their own...

I've been in full japanese parties and know what it is like to not understand a word that is being said, and if they don't speak english communicating instructions can be difficult even with autotranslate.

And this isn't just a japanese thing, i've seen people with msg's including "noobs [no thanks]" so even english speaking people do it and its far more rude saying no thanks to noobs than it is saying i dont speak english and would rather party with people of my own nationality...

Edit: I don't know why japanese people refuse to use the autotranslate, hardly ever see it used in whitegate shouts, it's probably again a way of keeping to people of their own nationality.

I dont mind this, i can understand even if they want for example JP party only.
Only thing i dont understand, is when you /tell for a shout (hehe you recongnise the number 80 if you want askar ) and you dont even get answer, but see the guy/girl still shouting...

In NYzul communication and coordination is paramount... so of all times that'd be why they wouldn't accept a non-JP players...

Though I agree it's rude to just ignore, a reply would be nice.

The bottom line (as far as I'm concerned) is that people are playing the game and paying the fee to enjoy themselves. If they want to party with people they can talk with, they're free to. If they only want to party with their linkshell, so be it. If they refuse to party with someone who doesn't have THE BEST gear available, that's their bag. (You can always call a GM if you've been harrassed)

I think the people who self-impose those regulations on themselves are only shooting themselves in the foot. I've found that being polite and even praising others on a job well done (Nice pull, dude! You dodged those gobbies like a pro!) only does you good. Also, instead of calling someone a NOOB for a mistake, send them a polite tell EXPLAINING what they did wrong, as well as the consequenses (if applicable) of repetition of that bad move:

"Hey man, don't pull until the mages are back from AFK, please. I'd hate to wipe and anger someone"
"Can you line up behind the mob a little quicker? I'm having a hard time SATAing. SATA is gonna give you some massive hate and lets me do some great damage."
"I'm sorry. I'll try to put haste on you too, but the ninja needs it most. I'll do the best I can to cast it on you too, but I can't promise anything."

Also, make an attempt to punctuate your sentences. Reading poor grammar is alot like trying to read a foreign language; you can make the sounds the letters stand for, but you don't quite get what they mean.

As far as communicating with people around the globe goes, I've found that many players from other countries appreciate it when you know a word or two in their language. I made friends with a JP (*gasp) because I'd taken 6 weeks of a Japanese language course in college. I don't have a JP keyboard or any way to input characters that aren't in our standard alphabet, so I used the romanized spellings to try to communicate with him. I don't remember saying more than "Daizyobu desu ka?" (are you ok?) after he took a big hit and "Arigatoo gozaimasu! ^^" after the other JP had to leave. Two days later, that same player asked me <Party> <Do you need it?> <impossible to gague> <english> <friend>!! His party might not have been amazing xp/hour but we had many laughs and had a helluva good time.

Search google for a few words in Japanese, German, or Australian :P and use them to your advantage: "hello", "yes", "no", "good-bye", "thank you", "awesome/sweet/groovy/sick", and "I'm sorry" are all good to know. Write them on a notepad and keep them close to your gaming machine. You might impress someone!

Oh, and as a courtesy, try to use the auto-translate function when you have a non-english speaker in your party especially if you're going to the toilet or afk.

It seems that one of SE's points in making FFXI a MMO is to bring people together and bind them in friendship. There are asshats out there, but most players just wanna have fun, right? Meet them half-way, lend them a hand, and BE NICE to them. Before long you'll have more friends than you had imagined, and maybe we can break the stereotype that all gamers have to be anti-social nerds.

actully its not so much English speakers, JP's don't like Americans so much (you know that war that happend >.>; ) i do events with JP only linkshells, i'm the only non-JP member in the ls, if you met up with some nice JP's word gets around that your a nice guy and/or good at your jobs (i'm not nice but i can swing a Great axe the right way!) you'll find JP's are actully very friendly if you make sure to be polite since there system works on Politeness and grace

so if you have a problem with some Japanese players just be polite with them

Auto-translate doesn't work on the Japanese side, is what it comes down to. The feature was implemented by English-speaking developers in preparation for the North American release, and as such, the phrases chosen make sense in English but rarely do in Japanese. Classic examples of this include things like "Please add me to your party" being auto-translated on the Japanese side as the rather vulgar order to "please stick it in."

The majority of auto-translation lines that English-speaking players have become accustomed to using for "shortcuts" in communication are completely unintelligible when seen on the Japanese side of things, and so most JP players have simply given up on using them. I speak fluent English, but use the Japanese client, and so it's impossible for even me to understand what the hell English speaking players are trying to say when they rely heavily on auto-translation shortcuts in the middle of their sentences.

Further, the auto-complete aspect of auto-translate when Tab is pressed works far better in a alphabetical language like English, and is not very conducive to a symbolic-conversion language like Japanese. In short, what is a very easy thing to do in English (type a few letters and hit Tab) is a much bigger pain in the *** in Japanese. Often, it fails to even auto-complete at all, and you have to type out the entire expression perfectly for it to convert.

Wow... I see, this explains a lot then.

I've spoken to Japanese players in their own language and still received the JP only response. That doesn't happen all the time, but it happens frequently enough to notice there is a large amount of players discriminating NA players. Of course if you call a GM on them you'll be the one put in jail for harassing them (That's how it always works out). It's a discrimination issue not just a cultural or language issue. Of course I don't really care since NA PTs are just as good and sometimes even better than JP PTs if you get the right members (Which really is what it's all about). My advice is just ignore than and "return the favor" when they make requests (Nothing felt better than giving someone the NA ONLY when they asked to join my LS after I saw their search comment say NA No Thanks). I know some players see this as a reason to divide servers, but that's just stupid because JP Only players have minimal impact on your gameplay (Them not doing stuff for you and them not existing on the server is the same in that regard) and it's a huge economic impact.

I'm tempted to put <English> <No thanks.> when seeking at times, and I'm NA. ._. As a generalization, NA players are self-centered in this game which is designed to be group orientated. Self-centered behavior annoy the Japanese players like you wouldn't believe...

Take leaving exp parties for example: NA players tend to think they can leave any time for any reason, especially if they can get a replacement. This is pretty selfish in this sense:
1. There's no guarantee the replacement gets to play for a long time, since other people in party may want to leave. So, not nice to the replacement.
2. The party may want someone else, or may not want to continue, but now may feel a sense of obligation (esp. if not NA party) to continue longer because it's rude to the replacement to disband 20 minutes after he arrived. So, it's not nice to the party.

Japanese players prefer to go to camp as a group, then disband all together, since that's fair to all involved. Only when it's something like sudden visitor at the door (RL!) do people bow out early--and only if that occurs early (like within the first hour) would the party invite replacement.

You wouldn't believe how many appologies are involved in leaving early AND in inviting replacement. ._.;

Anyway, NA players for the most part don't see how selfish they behave, while JP players are overly sensitized to that and communication problems and stereotype NA players.

* * *

I read enough Japanese to know when they are talking about NA players in party chat. Despite what I wrote, NA players trash JP players far more than JP players trash NA players.

Oh, I also read enough Japanese to know that JP players usually know enough English to realize when NA players use racist or derogatory remarks. >_> Yet another reason they dislike partying with NA players, by the way.

Jaerik, thanks for that info. I can understand the failure that is the auto-translate system, but this thread is about Japanese party preference. I can say that never once have I put {Japanese}{No Thanks.} or anything to that liking. I have been in several parties with no English speakers, and the only difficulty I've had is what to pull, which is usually resolved with a /point. At some point I truly start to believe that the Japanese just hate us.

Sure your own personal experience is an accurate way to measure that... Seriously :x

You'll find tons of players saying the contrary, the process of saying "[JP or NA] players trash [NA or JP] more" is completely stupid.

I actually ran into this problem the other day. I said (camp) (where?) and the jp guy who invited me (I was the PLD) didn't know what I was talking about. In the party there were 3 jp people and 3 NA. At first it was a little rough. Mostly because we level synced 66 to fight Imps. But after a while we got warmed up to each other. And one of the jp people got a rep. And he seemed to understand a bit of the simple things we were saying. It helped alot to where they were chearing us on. I had alot of fun and we partied for a good 4 hours where I went from low 74 to 75 and a merit. I always say in my search message: (Japanese)/(English) (party) OK.

Okay currently not playing but I have to put my 2 cents in. When i first started playing I was invited to party in Yhoater jungle. The leaders were some dudes named Daibubu and Toshiakix (on my blist for 4 years). I was a 25thf at the time (my favorite and most cherished job), and pulling for this party for 2 hours. Not one death, pulling going great when I get the message [I'm sorry}. I respond [I'm sorry]???. Next thing I know I get dropped from party and
replaced with a JP thief (same level). Thats one incident. Another was a merit party in which a JP ninja thought it would be funny to move (several times) when I went to TA onto him.... the JP's got a kick out of it and where w .... w ...... w. Oh and JP only = racism. Don't see any parties with NA only or EU only .. or HK only ... just the JP. I know people have had similar experiences. So lets here it.

lol yeah theres quite a bit of racism between the NA and the JP. i speak pretty butchered JP but they usually let that slide. and after several inquiries i have heard the MOST RIDICULOUS things... someone told me that JPs think all NAs are rmt wwwww... but on the otherhand i think most of the resentment is due to thinking NAs are noobs. i suppose it could make sense if the JPs were playing long before the NA version ever came out. so being able to speak SOME japanese helps u to get ur foot in the door... and being able to "perform adequately" keeps you in their good graces.

and i actually have been able to get into a nyzul isle with jp... i dont reccomend it unless you are a serious veteran. not being able to understand what they are saying is a huge impairment... if they even let u you. u need to understand ALL the missions. know ALL the mobs that can come up. KNOW LAMPS [this is funny since alot of people dont...]and know what to do accordingly without their help. id know since i lead all my nyzuls... and its pretty obvious when their noobs. "i just hit it and my light wont turn on." ; ; its easy when you can tell people to just point and kill. but if you need to explain to them which mob, or when to hit lamps in what order, its already a headache in english. imagine trying to speak JP/NA at the same time. so i say let it go for NA/JP nyzul isles. and if its a meripo... learn to cuss and swear in JP ;) that might actually encourage them to invite u

When i seek during JP prime time and see many [English] [No thanks] comments I switch to my bard i put [Japanese][No Thanks.]

yep. *** em and their non-english accepting *** (unless you have a job they want!)

This games been out too long and many jp still have resentments for whatever lame reason, don't get me wrong many of the coolest players i've met are JP but, the attitude of [english] [no thanks] among the jp is obnoxious.

They are not in general better players or leet or any of that, there just as many JP noobs as NA. It sickens me when some NA's put JP on a high pedestal.

For the most part yeah JP are experienced and play well but then again so do most NA's by this point in the game's history.

And yes, they started it, so whats wrong with me putting a comment like this or anyone else doing it for that matter?

Nothing. Oh cuz i'm white it must be racist.

You never fail to disappoint Smurfo!

ANYONE ELSE LOL @ THIS? LOLOL

Thank god SE put that little button on your /seacom saying what language you prefer.

You know, the one that goes by your name that says JEFG? (thats mine, since I rather party and not look for hours just to get into an English only party)

Now, what bugs me the most are the following people: Those who attempt at English, but are not very good, but still attempt at English after I said that they can type in the mother language.

If you type something I can't understand, and was directed at me, most likely you should try to type it in auto-translate. I do if I know I'm in a party where people might not understand me. Basically I say {Right} Ebony Pudding (or <t> whichever is best) or {Pull back.} or {Let's rest for awhile.} which is understandable for most people.

If you can't use Auto-translate for simple tasks like that, you should try at all, no typing in party for you~.

Sometimes JP refers to the Japanese language, not person.

I've seen a lot of misinterpretation of JP/ENG to JP/NA

A little off topic but I've seen NA players say in autotranslate ptchat with jp players: {Bee} {Right} {Back}
I was /amazed+rofl at the same time. No telling what they think of us NA.

They probably think American Bees have two backs, one on the left of their body and one on the right!

Sounds like a Dali Painting...

I Lol when I see someone say {May}{Bee} to a JP player. What would you think if someone randomly said "November Slug" :o

This post is like beating the horse that's been dead for 5 years. Unless you speak Japanese, you have not been in a "Full JP party."

/welcome to the (language) barrier.

And Smurfo, if you have to switch jobs to something like Bard to try to prove a point, I'd say you sir, are an idiot, not a racist.

"They Started it"

Cause we all see "JP" players make comments like this. Grow up. If you don't like the way they play, that's all fine and dandy, but don't try to justify your ignorance by pointing fingers about who started what in a virtual game.

[quote=Smurfo]When i seek during JP prime time and see many [English] [No thanks] comments I switch to my bard i put [Japanese][No Thanks.] yep. *** em and their non-english accepting *** (unless you have a job they want!)

LOL .... I'm in tears man. NA onry!!!

Some simple examples of how the auto-translator is epic fail to a Japanese player: (I have actually witnessed this one)

English: (May) (Bee). (What?) (Up)? (I) (Pull) (Back) to (Camp)
Japanese: (5th Month) (Hornet). (What is it?) (Above)? (Myself) (Fishing Skill) (Body Stature) to (-meaningless-)

Many of the shortcuts that NA players use with the auto-translator aren't just slightly confusing, but completely unintelligible. And as my "stick it in" example demonstrates, even simple one-token phrases are typically useless on the Japanese side of things.

Add to that the fact that Japanese does not "auto-complete" on Tab very reliably, and frequently requires you to type out the entire phrase before it will detect it as an auto-translate token... and you can see why many JP players refuse to use the damn thing.

Thank you for your reply to this Yagisegi^^

I love it when people make an effort to communicate with eachother, though I must admit, not a great deal of NA players would make the effort to learn some simple everyday phrases, like please and thank you, even if it is typed in romanji^^;.
I very much enjoy conversing this way and knowing that they're making an effort to use english, or I'm trying my best by using their language instead of my own, even if it is baby japanese sometimes^^ lol.

A please and thank you goes a long way, nomatter what language you speak, and more often than not, it will gain you some brownie points for being repectful to your fellow party member :)

-Rin / Israfel

p.s - Awesome post there Harryxi ^^, we need more nice gamers like you!! /kidnaps :)

Whenever I'm talking with a JP player, I refer to
http://www.japaneselifestyle.com.au/japanese_language/japanese_phrase_basic.htm
Its nothing fancy, just a few basic phrases, but they seem to like it more than auto translate. I'll use
"Nihongo [yoku] hanasemasen" (I can't speak Japanese [well)
as opposed to the auto translate for I don't speak any Japanese.

Though, I read a few times that JP pts are usually good. I can't speak for other servers, but on Fairy, a larger percentage than not make some really unusual gear choices. (Like the Spharai JP mnk on Fairy that uses Bandomusha kote for town gear, but TP's in Temple Gloves +1)

Well Jaerik made an example above, but although I have seen people make really incorrect OTT sentences using auto translate like that, I have to say It is a rarity I have actually seen them.

As for the JP attitude I too have been at the other end of it being an EU (United Kingdom more precisely) player, although the JPS often brand me as NA for speaking English, which as I am sure anyone with any national pride at all will concur that it is quite insulting (especially since we invented the language, not the Americans).

I have looked into a lot of what the auto translate texts translate to previously and I only tend to use ones that make sense, but on a number of occasions I have been in JP parties etc and the whole party speaks in JP, regardless of whether i use {I don't understand} or {I don't speak any Japanese}, no attempt to use auto translate or for any of the already proven Bi--lingual participants in the party care to let me in on anything.

One example was a party I was picked up to in Whitegate, the person who invited me was japanese, but used the auto translate to invite me, and even spoke a few lines of english on occasions. Yet as soon as we started fighting (the party kind of sucked too, which is uncommon for a JP party to suck) no English was spoken, a constant jp convo was taking place, and you could obviously see people saying what their TNL was, and I added mine, and when I was about 700 EXP TNL, the party disbanded, without even letting me know, the group just split, and *** off, and I wasn't very happy about it.

And if anybody on ODIN server doesn't believe their is a JP player supremacy thing going on, go to whitegate for parties every day during JP prime time. I don't like to believe that group of people associated by race look down on people, or rather don't even make an effort at all to show even a little respect for other people from other communities or races but playing FFXI has made it apparent to me that in FFXI there are clear divisions between communities.

I am not saying everyone who plays the game, and belongs to X race, doesn't like Y and Z race, but the divide is pretty heavy, on Odin server at least, although I am sure that some optimistic JP fan boy will attempt to correct me on that, or even go as far as to say that it is in fact the opposite way around.

Heck I have met *** wipes in game from every race, A lot of which are Americans (I remember this one PLD too scared to do his job properly but had no reservations over telling everyone else how to do their jobs [badly]...anyway) I have met German *** holes, who joined PT and despite reservations insisted on taking the party to a bad camp, got us killed in 1st fight then left the party, I have met French morons who somehow managed to screw up everything they did, and insult everybody in the process. On the contrary I have met people from each of those races who do their jobs flawlessly and treat everyone with respect.

But in game there are a lot of racial preferences, I noticed that a lot of heat towards German players cam from American players too, but in game I have found it to be true heavily that (most) JP players have a superiority complex over any NON-JP player.

And on another point I should have mentioned earlier in the post, most None JP keyboards, computers, and POL clients do not typically support the typing of JP characters, so learning a few JP phrases is out, unless you use some kind of custom setup or Third Party Tool which allows it.

You made some very good points there Evilchris and thank you for not coming off like an ***^^ (I mean that truthfully, though my wording is poor, it's just my english skill^^; )

You're very right in saying that there are morons from all races, I completely agree with your statement ^^



You can type these phrases in english alphabet (Romanji), a good number of japanese players will understand what you are trying to say here :) so an Arigatou! will still go a long way^^

Matane^^/

-Rin / Israfel

Right, well it's blatantly obvious that you are completely full of yourself, i'll break down why for you:

You start off with this "holier than thou approach" for what reason exactly i don't know. You're trying to tell me that i'm some kind of dirt for doing this, i might partially agree if it weren't for the fact that JPONRY is still to this day a major trend. Anyway, check this out, immediately after stating your point you tarnish yourself, and your entire approach by sinking to a level of petty insults.

Do you see how you failed yet?

You feel the need to tell me to grow up, yet you're not going about telling jp's who refuse to party with english players the same thing. That isn't your major failure though, by resorting to childish name calling your point about "growing up" is completely invalid. You are no longer the epitome of maturity which you're 'grow up' comment claims you to be, everything you say beyond the point of showing yourself to be a hypocrite is irrelevant.

Perhaps you sir need to grow up some, you on one hand are saying that if I dislike the way they play to let it be, yet you are attacking me on a forum for me doing the same exact thing that they do.

Maybe you should grow up, by attacking me you contradicted yourself in so many ways, mainly just in that you are stripping yourself of your "holier than thou" approach when you chose to call me a name that a 10yr old would think is a badass insult.

You had intent of making some kind of point somewhere along the way? I forgot what it was anyway, doesn't matter now because it was just some hypocrite trying to spark some flames on an internet forum.

Make sure next time before you try a holier than thou approach, that you don't stoop to the level of what you're supposedly better than to try to make a point.

It only makes you look stupid if the other person is smarter than you give them credit for.

Frankly, I don't feel like arguing about this one anymore but you are a liar and a hypocrite, and if after reading this you don't understand why, well then... you sir win your idiot title back.