Common Courtesy

.... Where's the common courtesy on this thread?! Come on guys break it up already!! =/

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Common_Courtesy

I wasn't referring to UK people either. Think 'nationalism' and the country that popularized it, you'll get closer then.

Edit: Quote didn't go in.

Righto, nice to know ^^.

On the subject of partying with JP players, I find it helps quite a bit to drop a few phrases in Romaji (The Japanese alphabet which uses most letters from the Western European ones. They created it in order to express foreign words).

This gives the impression that you're willing to put a bit of effort in to make communication easier. I imagine some get offended by my mediocre attempts, but most seem to appreciate it. The odd phrase isn't hard to learn at all either. I've noticed (in reference to this thread, lol) that you get a much better response from japanese players if you're courteous. I think politeness is so institutionalised in the average japanese society that it's almost genetic =p (Omg I made a racist comment... or DID i?!)

If you need a job and a JP player is the only one looking:

"Ano-san, yoroshikattara PT isso ni shimasenka".
"Excuse me, would you like to PT with me?"

This is by far the most useful, i'm sure everyone gets annoyed when JP Players don't even bother to reply. I've had a fair amount of success with it.

Onegaishimasu - A polite/heartfelt way of saying please (because lets face it, there are times when you're begging them to complete your party =p).

Yorosiku - An informal, but not impolite 'Heya/Nice to meet you'. It's a word with more multiple meanings than this though.

Hajimemasite - Formal 'How do you do/Nice to meet you'.

Omedetou - Congratulations.

These are some that I learned and use frequently, but there's a LOT of very useful ones here:

http://shigemo.com/FFXI/nihongo_guide.html

I have this on a quick-link on Firefox because I used to use it so often.

Hope you're willing to give it a try. I'm an anime buff, so it's all quite fun for me as well. ^_^b Ganbatte!

P.S. You brits: "Watashi wa igi risu-jin desu" identifies you as 'British'.

arigatou gozaimasu Saiya :D

Dou itashimasite Onepenny =)

wow that is a pretty useful resource. at least it can't hurt to make an effort if that last pt spot needs to be filled or w/e. the only one i knew prior to looking it over was "Riseki"/"Riseki Shimasu" and i had only learned that from a Japanese player who i had asked how to say AFK.

i had always been under the impression that most Japan players frown upon the use of romanized Japanese words which is why i never made that much of an attempt to use them. at any rate...i've printed them up and will keep em close by during JPN peek hours :)

I was gonna do that too... I should highlight that link that way it will be clickable and ppl can go to it from here intead of copying and pasting it. Hope everyone doesn't mind me doing this.

http://shigemo.com/FFXI/nihongo_guide.html

I hope Saiya doesn't mind me doing this???????

Not at all, I just forgot to bracket it with 'url's.

I guess some may frown upon romanized japanese words, but I put myself in their shoes and think would i be happier seeing disjointed Auto-Trans that sounds like baby talk (lol), or the slightly unorthodox romaji? ^_~

yeah Saiya... now everyone do a baby talk sentence to me. with this words from my native language, im about to translate:

cala-te = shot up
gato = cat
tu = you
cão = dog
nerd = nerd
urso = bear
isso = that
morcego = bat
é = is
pato = duck
fora = off
zebra = zebra
tópico = topic

Sorry to go back to the subject bought up a few posts ago, but since reading this thread I've been fortunate enough to experience this lack of common courtesy >.>

I'm sure many of us have had the experience of soloing the goblin bat in Pso'Xja and know how that camp is fought over. Well me and my hubby on DD jobs have been duoing there as we can not be in a 'real' exp party. We have a baby and we need to afk for a few minutes here and there and don't want to piss off a full 6 man party by doing so. (just saying this before ppl flame me for daring to duo in a mage apparently only camp)

So yes, day 1, we're exping, we afk for 5 mins, come back and a blm is already killing the bat >.> We have a /seacom up but hey, no one reads those. We apologise for afkin and explain that we are exping and which he throws it in our face that we're camp stealing from blms and we shouldn't be there. After explaining to him why he apologised and left. Fair enough.

Day 2, another blm logs in and asks when we're leaving. nice. We weren't planning on leaving but seeing as we had been there for a while we said 4k more and let him have the camp.

Day 3, that same blm logs in, and we're not even afk and he starts just stealing the mob from us! this is after we had been so courteous the day before. I asked him why he was stealing from us and he said 'Well when I don't have long so I just don't care.' wow.... Is this how everyone in ff should behave? This made me really angry because if I ever see someone at the camp I wish to be at, I just turn around and do something else. But this person, doesn't matter if your nice to them, they don't do a kind act back.

So after a long discussion with him he still refused to give a ***, so I stooped to his lvl (I'm sorry but a GM doesn't care about camping etiquette then I will have to do take out judgement myself), I used my PL to continually sleep the goblin making it despawn so neither of us got exp until he left to the west_sarutabaruta S camp for eles.... something us DDs can't easily kill.

Then today, I log in and that blm is already there... afk. 30 mins pass, still afk. This guy just logged out over night so he could have this camp. So not only was he out to annoy us, but he upset a whole lot of other players that probably saw him and left the camp alone, because they had manners to see that someone else was at the camp. But anyway, an hour later he comes back and starts killing the bat, so because he was there first, we left.

If anyone wants to criticise me for my actions, please do so in a polite manner, but this has really bothered me how selfish people are. I saw other soloers log in next to us, see us exping and leave to do something else because that is COMMON COURTESY, just as I would do for them. Maybe I have the whole camp etiquette completely wrong but I try my best to respect other people.

Because if everyone went around like that blm doing what they wanted because it was their subscription per month and their money, what about everyone else that pays their money per month to enjoy a game? Don't they deserve to have fun to do?

Sorry for the rant, but I think it was a good example of the lack of common courtesy in game and most likely something that will never change.

It's a shame SE fixed MPK, thats a situation where MPK would have resolved it, since GM's dont do ***.. lol

MPK was a good last resort when people pissed you off, one time i trained every mob from the zone to the middle room of kuftal tunnel on a bunch of gilsellers while they were fighting guivre after they had mpk'd a friend of mine

:( MPK was cool and since we can't duel each other like some MMO to resolve stuff it made a good way to say "fk u" although some people abused it obviously it was a nice little "check system" back in the day lol

Ok, upon reading Uriko's comment above I have to speak my mind on this. Before I begin this post I will let you know that I AM an ***, and if you know me you know this. Reading that you're on a melee job and you're taking blm camps just annoys me past the point of normal annoyance and onto douchebagness.

No matter how shitty your party invites are, or how long you have to look for a party...blm has it worse than you. Now, I'm not biased on this seeing as I don't play blm myself and don't really care to play the job at all. NOTHING in this game annoys me more than a melee job that's perfectly capable of getting a party taking a blm camp.

The blms don't give a ***because you're in a BLM camp on a MELEE job. This is the biggest common courtesy thing in this game IMHO. DO NOT TAKE BLM CAMPS UNLESS YOU'RE A BLM. If you're going to exp in that camp regardless you should leave if a blm arrives or set in your comment that you'll willingly leave should a blm come to exp.

To make your lives easier in this game just do what I do. Assume every person you invite to your party is a complete idiot. If you've been playing this game for years, as many of us have, the last thing you want is a newb of ANY kind in your party. There are some exceptions...IE: I had a horrible pld in a party once who just didn't understand the job. He listened as I explained how to tank and paid full attention to what I said. He was infinitely better at the end, but the chances this will happen are slim to none.

Assume they're an idiot if you don't know them, and kick them if they don't listen. One bad apple will ruin the whole bunch. Point them in the direction of their job's forums on KI and replace them.

yah, cuz blms deserve to solo exp more than the next job does, riiight.

blm can get parties just as well as the next job maybe a little harder in colibri ranges but i had a friend recently go 1-75 in like a month strictly in normal exp parties that he made.

blm need to quit being /emo, im a blm myself but ***man they got it better than summoners in alot of cases.

and yes, your post was pretty much douchebaggery, job favoritism for a camp is lame, anyone should be allowed to solo/duo if thats what they wish to do. Especially if they arrive at a camp first. There is nothing in ToS stating if your a melee in xx camp gtfo for some whiny emo blm, its his mobs!

It has nothing to do with job favortism in a camp Smurfo. Being a blm yourself you should understand this better than anyone else. You need to use your common sense here instead of what happened to your friend. Nobody is going to invite a blm to fill a spot in parties these days that a DD could fill. Plain and simple it's just not going to happen. If you do get a party on your blm it's going to be a party that isn't experienced and kills VERY slowly. Every party tries to be four DDs, a rdm or whm, and a brd or cor. If that's not that type of party you're attempting to build then you're just gimping your exp. I hate it myself, because it really sucks for blm, but they have no spot in conventional party builds these days.

No, "anyone" shouldn't be allowed to solo in a blm camp. They are blm camps for a reason. You do not belong there if you're on a DD job, regardless what you think. You pointed out my common courtesy fact all by yourself. I don't know if it's a fact that most people are just ignorant to, or if they're just greedy? Either way it's completely unacceptable.

blm can fill the same role as a summoner can they have cure 3 also, bingo. point is blm can still build a party and incorporate themselves into a good exp build they may have to alter their playstyle and play backup or main healer but it works just fine, it is by no means purely a soloing job, ESPECIALLY at the level that she described, pre-55 blm is just as good as the next job in any given party.

TP burns mid levels don't work as well in zilart zones, i've tried it mobs have too much HP/defense and too low exp/kill on VT's for it to compare to toau, and honestly if you're fighting crabs in a 50ish party without a BLM then your party is missing major dmg, crabs pretty much require the dmg on demand a blm has to offer due to their naturally low melee dmg #'s and defense buffs.

Otherwise exp on crabs is kinda gimped in my opinion. It isn't absolutely necessary to have one but it definitely is a nice dmg boost to grab a blm for a crab party.

This alone essentially makes a joke of all of your previous comments. Can a BLM haste the entire party? Stoneskin? Spring Water? All a BLM has is Cure 3 if asked to fill any type of healing or support mage roll in a party.

Before you post, perhaps you should double check your claims to avoid writing anything that may come off as stupid.

BLM cannot fill the same roll as a smn in an experience party. You don't have anywhere near the AoE party buffs that a smn has to benefit everyone in the party. On blm the best you can do is something to the effect of Choke, Shock, Burn, nuke sparingly without trying to pull an enormous amount of hate from the current tank. Sure..you have Cure III, but that's pretty much all you get. You can enfeeble the mobs, but a rdm does it better, so no one's going to invite the blm to fill that role.



No, this statement just isn't factual at all. You're not as good of a healer/support job as a dnc, whm, rdm, or smn. You're not as good as a melee DD in a typical party setup. They have Cor or Brd buffs and do enormous amounts of dmg quickly, without the mob running back and forth making the kills take longer because of hate being pulled. This just further proves why I assume everyone I invite is an idiot, because they almost always are.

Factual or not, your statements are very opinion based as well so there is no point in arguing opinions, don't claim yours to be fact though, it's quite obnoxious, i've had many of parties with a blm at any given level and guess what?

They still get good exp/hr, sadly i guess too many people roll with every trend to the extreme though and refuse to think anything aside from the norm, point i'm making is it's still possible to get great exp/hr with a blm in your party.

oh also, lol @ stoneskinga cuz thats such a worthwhile buff, the aoe haste yah maybe though its still kinda lame and spell based haste is better.

Not everyone is an elitist.

Ok, I'm going to make this as blatent and obvious as I can for you. This isn't the FFXI from five years ago or the NA release. When it was common practice to SC + MB in a party blm was extremely beneficial to parties. "Trends"? Why would you personally even want to build a party that wasn't efficient? That is why blm doesn't get invites. It's a simple fact that blms just don't fulfill the role in a TP burn style party that they used to, so they're not invited. This isn't opinion based, it is based on facts. If you want to continue to build bad parties and continue to get horrible exp then be my guest.

Now, because blms aren't invited to exp parties due to this reason...don't take their camps. It's only common courtesy after all.

Here's the thing: you're living in the past. The norm today is to invite a melee DD to a party if damage is needed. 3+ years ago, it was the norm to invite a BLM and have skillchains and magic bursts part of every party. That is not the case anymore. It has nothing to do with rolling with trends to the extreme or refusing to think differently and if that's how you see it, then nothing we say will get through to you.

Also, everyone is an elitist in one form of another, whether it be telling someone to their face that they suck or simply wanting the best for themselves and others with whom they interact.

As a last point concerning the BLM camp controversy before I pass out for the night, I leveled PUP, which is notoriously terrible at getting party invites, and I would not encroach on a BLM camp unless it was open... on any DD job. I understand the concept that BLMs are ideal for these certain camps, and I accept it as a common courtesy to the BLM.

That's all. Peace.

Trend is what it is, look man, you can talk all your ***you want but a good blm is still capable of doing plenty dmg without pulling hate, not every blm is the type that will spam their highest tier nukes till out of mp or dead then rest and do it again. So making the mob run around is a moot point, only HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE blms do that.

Hell, I used to parse very close to a badass rng pre-nurf simply by spamming tier 1 nukes, thunder and blizzard throughout the fight and finishing on an MB. It's a good DD job in zilart zones those mobs were built to incorporate blm into a party.

They are still a decent enough job for zilart zones, this is fact, you cant TP burn zilart zones quite as well as you can TOAU zones, this is fact. Do i need to tell you anything else that's blatently obvious?

Either way this conversation is running in circles and frankly you're just not getting the point of what i'm saying no matter how many *** times i tell you.

I'll say it again: Not everyone is an elitist. Some people are actually quite happy to exp with jobs that dont often get party invites. If i level a mid-range job, i dont expect it to be a 20k/hr merit party, it cant be a *** merit party no matter how good you build a party, however if im meriting on my bard of course i do.

This video game isn't my life or job, this video game is something i do to relax and chill out, it's by no means something i must absolutely excel at at all times, so while your sitting at 5/6 members looking for a snotty rdm or a leetist bard, ill be just happy to take an average setup and get exp at a nice rate, if exp is even on my agenda. Quite frankly i have every job i could want leveled and i hardly play this trash infested game aside from crafting anymore~

I was going to go to bed, but felt compelled to watch the thread a little longer. Why are you adding lines of pointless crap into your latest post a whole 10 minutes after you posted it? Is this that big of a deal to you...?

Also, I'd absolutely be thrilled to see these so-called parses of you and a pre nerf(nurf?) RNG because it is bogus unless the RNG was absolutely terrible.

You keep saying I'm missing what you're trying to say, but I'm not, it's just not logical. I'm also not "talking ***". I'm trying to type some common sense into you rly. What are the odds that the blm you invite into your exp party will know what debuffs to cast on a mob?

Lots of blms these days don't even understand the fundamentals of blm and simply nuke -> stun, that is a fact. The overwhelming majority of blms or any other job for that matter are idiots, so yes that blm WILL most likely overnuke and pull hate causing the mob to run around. Can you honestly say that hasn't happened to you? Why would anyone want to take a chance on a blm that most likely doesn't know how to play their job and will have to constantly rest their mp? That's why you don't do it. It's more efficient to have a DD who doesn't have to rest his MP and can constantly dmg.

What this was suppoed to be...was telling you why blms don't get invited to parties and why people shouldn't be taking their camps. "Not everyone is elitist." Tell that to the blms that spend entire days trying to get a normal exp party to no avail. TP burn setups work from lvls 10-75, just not as quickly as they would in ToAU, but still more effective than your old school party setup. Everyone might not be an elitist, but there's a reason those blms aren't getting invites and it's pretty obvious.

This game is also something I do to relax and chill, as most of us do to escape everyday annoyances. No, not every party can be a merit party, but why settle for 4-6k/hr when you can easily do 9-14k/hr 30+ I know this because I build these parties on a normal basis. That parsing comment just completely blows me away. That had to be a horrible rng, especially if it was pre nerf. There's no way I could believe a statement like that without seeing legitimate parsing results as well as seeing how poorly equipped that rng was.

In reply to Vylandra, I think you missed my point as to why I do exp in a camp which is commonly used by blms. I wish I could exp in a proper party in proper camps, but I have a 5 month old baby that demands my time, so my husband will on and off dual box my character whilst I look after the little one. And now and again I can play when shes quite content playing with her toys for a little while.

I think you need to remember that everyone has their reasons. I know it seems a *** for me to exp there but I think I would be more of a *** afking all the time and upsetting 5 other people in a party. So if it wasn't for blm exp spots I would no longer be able to play this game as I would not have the time to exp.

I hope that might calm your anger a bit towards why someone other than a mage job may be at a typically mage camp.

There's plenty of other options for you to solo/duo that are viable for you that blms just aren't able to do because of their MP pools at those levels. You obviously didn't care/listen to anything written and I'm done talking to walls, good night.

I totally agree with Uriko. He made some valid points.

If you could tell me where I would be grateful. And I'm talking about mobs that won't take 5 mins to kill. I really can't think of any pet mob that is similar to the one of that at Pso'Xja. I came from sarutabaruta_S rarabs as they capped at 51, so then where? At least blms can bypass Pso'Xja and do eles in sarutabaruta_S. I can not. I'm really open to suggestions cos I have a few jobs to lvl at that lvl.

is this really necessary??? I use these posts for info, and I come and see this?

what a total turn off. I never really expected this to come down to this.. next time Ill just read and shake my head instead of posting to it! =/ ( today's generation will never really get it???)

fyi^^^^ this kind of stuff has no place in common courtesy whatsoever..

Lets hope someone deletes all these stupid pointless posts >.>