The Great Debate Redux: Euthanasia

Korpg, I'd kill you, even if you weren't terminally ill, even if you didn't wish to be dead. Just sayin~

If I had a reasonable expectation to get away with it, that is.

Come to my house, and lets see who dies then.

Little warning though, you better surprise me if you want to survive.

Just to sum up and end a big issue that seemed to plague the first two pages, since I kinda like this topic.

Vegetto's point was that some doctors are not doctors because of the money. Some actually go into the field to *gasp* OMGNOWAI help people. Not having the option to say "I, as a human being and as a doctor who took an oath to *help* people, do not feel comfortable with the act of assisting in taking the life of another human being." is a little selfish and HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE of the people who would pass the law.

Does this mean *EVERY* doctor would choose to do so? No. And I completely agree. If a person is terminally ill, I don't see why not have the option. I knew someone with an advanced stage of Leukemia and by the end of their life, the person SAID they much rather would have been dead than overmedicated and still in agony.

Very much summed up, it should be offered, but not forced upon someone as an option due to its nature of bringing an uncomfortable atmosphere...as well as if it is not MANDITORY for any single doctor to give it. Let those who are comfortable with the act do it, instead of breaking people who only want to treat sickness.

Note the part where I said I'd need to have a reasonable expectation of getting away with it, moron.

I don't understand. How are these type of doctors not doctors?

Personally, I would trust them more than those who are doctors just to help people. I know that they would do medicine the best because thats how they are able to make money. They would have worked very hard in their studies, worked very hard in their fields, do a lot of research, to make the kind of money they make.

The doctors who want to help people, they won't work as hard, they would make more mistakes because they aren't as informed as those who do it for profit, and they would do anything to save money, since they won't charge much and have to skimp on supplies to be able to live (eat and sleep and all that).

Except, knowing you, you would announce it to everyone first before you actually do it.

I meant that not every doctor became a doctor because it gives a hefty paycheck. I didn't mean that they aren't actual doctors.

But you pretty much got Vegetto's point down pat.

again too for the umpteenth time.. thats YOU. being strong willed if you are.

i asked you earlier, if your own mom wasnt as strong.. and actually was scared as ***of dying, like some are (me). actually being faced with the tough cell of her suffering vs. helping her however you could. would you say stuff and talk like you have been to her ?

A. i couldnt imagine what it wouuld be like for your mom asking you to kill her. i cant fathom what it would be like asking someone to do it for ME (and i know id have to..)
and B. i couldnt imagine what it would be like for you to actually have to consider helping one of the ppl you care most about, in one of the worst ways possible..

unless of course you really dont think it would be a big deal to do that for her, and i really am just wasting a whole lot of breathe saying anything about it. maybe it really would be cut and dry npnp for you..

What does me helping my mom have to do with this? I've already said I'd help her die, if it were legal. I'm just going over options people DO have to them now, while helping them is illegal. If it were legal to help my mom die, sure, I would. If it were not legal, then yea she'd have to suck it up and live or take matters into her own hand, cause I'm not going to prison because she wants to die but is unwilling to do it herself.

so yeah, i was right i guess.. its that cut and dry, easy breezy npnp for you.. and thats cool, im not saying it like a *** smart ***. im saying that its your way of dealing/coping with a scenario like that, and you wouldnt be doing anything wrong at all.

but ill try to say one final time my original point.. since i dont feel like its been gotten across..

your cant expect everyone to feel the same, or have the same mental capacity as you. where if it were really you in a horrible situation, and be able to quickly and effectively make decisions.. you have GOT to appreciate that for some, and id venture to say most even, its going to be a hella hard thing to think about, much less act upon..

like i said man, it was just some of yer earlier comments that got my goat.. making it sound like everyone should either have, or get a grip on it.. that its all black and white this or that for everyone. i was just imagining people actually being in horrendous situations ,like ive been trying to imagine (and am hella done w now), and them reading some of your earlier posts. yer a smart guy and all, and i respect you as a person.. but the the fact you can simply say "if it were legal to help my mom die, sure i would" ..with out batting an eye.. speaks volumes to your ability to empathize

having to kill a loved one to save their suffering would possibly kill ME even.. there would be no such thing as "tough mom, YOU gotta deal with it" for me either <.>

edit: wasnt quite sure what you meant by "i was just going over options" too... dont recall seein that any... but w/e.. didnt even mean to make ***all personal anyway.. simply didnt like a few of the snide comments earlier is all.. the subject is touchier than it should be to me for some reason i guess.

MY problem so nvm <.>

So what's your argument then? I'm saying if it was legal for someone else to do it, sure. Does it have to be you, no. Does it have to be a family member? no. But I'm saying it should be an option. I'm sure you'll be able to find someone willing to do the deed. And if the person can't find someone willing then they still have that option to do it themselves (if they are physically able).

My only stance here is that the doctor shouldn't be forced to, if that's not their wish.

the only thing i was ever contending is that its a mad touchy subject for most ppl, and theres usually never a simple answer. even tho there is technically a very simple answer to it all legally..

i was trying to say that regardless of laws or ethics, its going to be a traumatic experience for any and all involved with a decision of its nature. that when it comes to death anyway.. no one should be expected to do anything, much less expect them to be able to mentally even handle it in the first place..
if someone were so scared of dying they couldnt pull the trigger on themselves, even being in a world of pain.. id understand
if someone were faced with being the only person in the world that even could help another persons suffering, and just not be able to get themselves to hurt or kill someone to do so..
id understand.
any human complex of the like, i would have to at least try and vicariously understand.. i couldnt help but be sympathetic either..

the original point i tried making to you was pretty much only that things arent as simple and callous as you made sound, and presuming/talking like it is the same thing at all for everyone is wrong.

I never said everyone was going to take it the same, i was laying out the possible options. If you'd rather let someone suffer because you can't do the deed, that's your choice.

your right, i agree that that everything we do is our own choice. im naturally over sympathetic, and consider how and why people make the choices they make more than i should though (especially my own). and your right about never having said people would take it, or handle the same way (tough scenarios like the topic).

im not gonna make any more a deal out of it than its been copynpasting everything you said... but a lot of your first post comments were to the contrary of simply and innocently laying out peoples possible options..

was almost like to you, ppl were QQ @ it being a tough sensitive subject, where really its "simple".

but again, MY problem not liking what or how someone says ***, right? so forget it <,<. (were juts going in circles anyway)

When talking about ending a life no one on any side of the topic should be forced to do it. That being the doctor and the loved ones/friends. I myself would have no problem ending the suffering via death to someone I do not have a close relationship with. I however would have issues 'pulling the trigger' on my grandfather, sister, father, niece, ect. Some of these people who have been with me before the record of my memory started to record. Not that I want them to suffer but it does not change the fact that I would have killed them no matter the reason. It is wrong to say "It must be x group who does the killing", but it is also wrong to say "You must live with X pain/incurable illness" as well. Also saying "If you want to die pick a way and do it" is asking to have your view looked at negatively with a first read.

what a great thread this is...

Veg, you seem to be arguing a straw man...I'm not sure where ANYONE has said all doctors should be FORCED to assist in someone's suicide. Could you point this out, please? Thanks. 8)

It was to the people who said it should be legal to kill these people (Provided they want to die) but don't have the balls to do it themselves.

Pretty sure it was directed at this post, in case you missed it, Silv

I think the government should hire Vegetto to be the terminal ill patient killer

no, why. because.

way to convince people

Cmoooooooooooon~

What's it pay?

defiantly not much

Talked with my Mom after posted this thread. I know her medical directive is no life support. And I ask her opinion on this. She said that it should be always an available option, because the right to live should be one's choice. Yet, I agree with her up to some point. It should be available to people like, terminally ill, fataly wounded, etc. But again their choice. It should not always possible option 'cuz there are days that I would like to just die, and the next day I'm like "WTF was I thinking?!".

On Who to do it? That IDK, no one would like to have that job IMO, regardless of pay.

In some cases like the Terri Schiavo case, I wouldn't let her starve to dead. I would, as her family, do it.

Vegetto saw the movie MILLION DOLLAR BABY HEY-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Actually, I have never seen that movie.

SHEIT

If it was legal I would run out of the house crying. and run 2 miles without stopping (or at least try to run 2 without stopping)

AH....AH..AH...AH.. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

; .;

Hmm..."you should be able to ask a doctor to do it" is a far cry from what you seem to be claiming, which is that doctors should be FORCED to do it. Nothing in the post you quoted indicated coercion.

Edited to add: It just seems to me like you're arguing against a non-point. Maybe I missed the posts where someone said a doctor should be -forced- to help someone commit suicide, but I'm just not seeing it. If a doctor wishes to help someone commit suicide cleanly, painlessly, and quickly, then that should be their choice. I support physician-assisted suicide, but I would certainly never support MAKING a doctor do it, and I've not seen anyone who does.