The Great Debate Redux: Euthanasia

I said they can't get you for suicide, never said anything about attempted suicide. Do it right

It's less the doing, it's more the legality. Finding a way to kill someone is easy. It's not getting in trouble doing it.

And if they want to die with some dignity, and not choking on their own blood and tounge, then what?

Again, I agree it should be legal, so your argument holds no merit with me. My argument is the doctor is not the one who should be forced to do it if they do not wish to do so. If you would rather let them choke on their own blood than give your loved one the shot yourself, then that's on you and your conscious.

Doctors should provide the equipment / materials for self killing only to mentaly healthy people who want to proceed with this, and have had the reason and desire for long periods of time.
Also the person in question should "Pull the trigger", not the doctor.

If a country refuses assisted death, people can always:
a) Travel aboard to die,
b) razor + bathtub.

However I strongly believe that self induced death is only justified in cases of absolutely lethal, painfull and "turning you into a vegetable" cases where cure under current medical knowlege is impossible. The "I'm sad i wanna die" excuse is not reason to die but has been scientifically been proven to be caused by a lack of nutrients.

If they can do something about? Hop up, grab a syringe from a drawer and shoot yourself up. We should be able to do it for people who cant though. Hell, I don't see whats so traumatic about it, I think it's more so to watch them suffer.

again your making it sound like something HUGE to some ppl is just whatever npnp..
YOU might have the kind of emotional/mental stability where the concept of death has zero influence on that very stability.
but c'mon.. your a pretty intelligent dude. you cant possibly expect EVERYONE in the world to be quite as well rounded.. if your mom straight up told you, that as ok as she pretended to be in life, as much as she had never talked about it.. her number one fear in life was death..

if she was on her death bed suffering, and wanting it to end.. and you ONLY wanting her to not suffer..
could you maintain this same attitude ? "anyone can kill themselves mom, there are million ways. just pick one already, and do it right nub"..


your not ONLY saying a doctor just shouldnt have to do it.. your saying that the person its happening to should have to do it (or at least thats how its sounded so far), and that its a reasonable expactation.

Again, you're arguing the wrong argument. I'm not saying it shouldn't be legal, I'm saying that IF you do it yourself then it's not illegal and IF they were to make it legal they should not force the doctor to be the one to do it. In that sense, I'd gladly be the one to do it, but I'm not going to expect someone else to.

Just as there is ppl with different opinions on this forum, there's doctors with different opinions as well. No one is saying they should force a doctor to help someone die if they dont want to. But I'm 100% certain there's as many doctors that would rather give a patient who is in great pain and dont have long to live a shot and let them just die with dignity as there's doctors that would rather not do that. Shouldnt be too hard for hospitals to keep themselves with both kinds.

Nevermind, sorry. I don't want to make this personal >.<

lolwut?

Damn right. We're arguing for it being legal here, not how it would be done.

long as you dont expect anyone to be able to kill someone.. and dont expect the person in question to just willy nilly easily be able to kill themselves either.

even if its the right and best thing to do, its a nearly impossible decision for someone/anyone to have to make. like, i try to picture MY mom being that burn victim i first proposed.. as cold as it sounds, i would very much want to be able to put her out of her misery.. but at the same time your faced with being the one to have to kill your own mom..

i do know this much for sure though.. with a situation of suffering and euthanasia, being harder that i could ever possibly imagine even, its not ok for anyone to say, with so much certiainty as to make it a legality.. "suicide, and/or assisting in suicide is wrong, and punishable by law. we dont know what the deals are, and we dont care."

if your murder someone, or assist in the murder of however. well, thats a little more clear cut.

and im not arguing with him saying hes not. im not saying it shouldnt be legal either..
all i had beef with was the attitude towards it being so simple as saying "if you wanna die so badly, do it"

which is the tone it originally had..

I said it wasn't illegal for them to kill themself, they can't get in trouble (Which still holds water). I think IF they want to die, and could find a willing participant to aid in their combat, fine. If they can't find anyone willing, then yea, I think they should be ***out of luck. Can't force anyone to kill you, sorry.

It's really easy to be all e-thug and all over the internet and be all "hell yea, I'd kill the most loved person in my life, np." When you arent in a situation where you actually have to do it.

And it's also really easy to be a little *** and hide behind the doctor, expecting them to do it.

Oh come on it's not like if every doctor would be susceptible to have to do it and they would force some of them to do it against their will. I'm sure there would always be a doctor ready to do it and if none in the region I am sure they could get one who have no problem doing it to come for the job. In most of the polls I have read about euthanasia(answered by doctors) there is a considerable amount of them in favor.

you said its not illegal for them to kill themselves a few times now actually.. and ive said a couple time too, it IS. suicide IS illegal..
just because you cant go to jail after your already dead doesnt make it NOT illegal.. if it were LEGAL to commit suicide, id invest all my money right now in suicide machine production companies stocks >.>

and exactly like you just said.. if you cant kill yourself, and no reasonable human being can expect another to kill FOR them... one would just be ***outta luck <.>

thats exactly what ive been harping about from the get go. that no one should have any right to say, "i dont know what your going through, and i dont care. but i know this: suicide and or assisting in it is wrong, NO MATTER WHAT. and thus, were making it illegal and punishable by law"

every situation is different, and none of them have an easy answer at all. ..some of your earlier comments were more or less suggestive of the opposite.

When did I say no doctor would be willing? I just said they should not be obligated.

It's obvious, where did anyone say all doctor should have to do it? Why are you even talking about it?

Not a punishable action. That a better wording of it? You know what I mean. Yea, you can call it illegal, but in actuality, not a damn thing on this earth they can do. They going to wait for you to reincarnate and arrest you then?

why hello there

Anyway how often do they arrest someone for attempted suicide?

got any math to back that up? or maybe a parse? Mr wiseguy? in the thing we call real life ppl dont get raised, they also dont just HP and be all ok. When they die they are gone forever. Maybe you dont like your mom, you didnt chose her. But what if it was your wife, or your child would you be just as cool with killing them yourself?

If you answer yes to that, I wont believe you. If you still claim you would do it with no problem, you need to be locked up somewhere.

i said this already too.. its not exclusively illegal to successfully kill yourself, or successfully aid in it. its illegal to do period, so whether you succeed, or fail..
its illegal and punishable by law. now ill be the first to admit i dont know what the punishments are exactly, but i know that if your admitted to the hospital for attempted suicide, for at least 24 hours you are a prisoner of the hospital if you will.

edit: unless your a minor.

double edit: if im not mistaken the state can impose all kinds of things on ppl deemed "a risk to themselves or others"

Attempted murder is not murder. Attempted suicide is not suicide. I never claimed you could not be punished for attempt suicide. I'm saying you cannot be punished for suicide. You can disagree all you want, but you're wrong if you do.

well THAT no can argue >.>.. and anyone would be wrong trying to. but now im not sure if its you manipulated the convo into looking like you were only trying to say "punishing a successful suicide would be impossible" and stuff along the lines of, suicide should in fact simply just be legal, so no one has to be expected to assist it.

or if it was stuff like
"If they wanted to die that badly, sure, or they could stop eating. I guarantee biting of the tongue would result in a quicker death, though. Hell they could catch a cab to the nearest train track and take a nap on that. There are millions of ways to die, the doctor being the one to do it is never the only option."

making possibly one of the most sensitive subjects in the world sound like a joke that should be/is npnp for everyone everywhere to handle >.>

which again, is all i had issue with..

I think that we missed a key point in this whole discussion.

It should be left to the patient if they want to live, not anyone else. How can we know what they want if they have no way to communicate?

Yes, there are ways around this argument (nice little thing called a last will and testament) but who really writes one out?

You could tell your loved one to pull the plug if I'm at XXX state of mind, but unless you have documentation (aka Last Will) you will have a hard time getting it done.

It should really rest on the choices of the person affected the most, the patient, and not the doctors or loved ones.




But on a side note, I would kill you in a heartbeat if you were terminally ill Vegetto. I'll make it even more painless than a needle too, but you won't have an open casket funeral.

Idk about people w/ low will power, but if I'm at the point where I want to die, why would I care if I had to go out of my way to do it myself or tell someone "juts give me a shot I'm ready to die now" the end result is the same, no matter how "far out" any other method of getting the job done may sound.