Joyeuse Viable Weapon?

Alright sirs I have recently come across said Joyeuse, and I have long pondered about leveling war to 75.

I already know maneater+ridill is the sex but....

how does maneater+joyeuse rampage match up against perdu voulge raging rush or kings justice?

Most people prefer Great Axe wars now. I'd save the joytoy for messing around. Rampage is decent but KJ is win. I don't have it for my war, but GA over is better imo.

I'm going to assume it's situational. I know someone in my LS Maneater+Joytoys it up in Einherjar.

What would you guys use in bird camp meripo?

and how would it be situational?

Well in bird camp remember Joytoy is piercing for everything except its ws because of the type of sword it is. Obviously you'd be wsing with Hand axe so this would make a nice off hand weapon dmg wise. I'd say if you didn't have KJ and your rampages are decent enough to pull the bird attention everytime and knock a huge chunk of exp out of the bird ( like 800-1200) then maneater joytoy could be a great option for you. I'm not a war so im not expert but I use joytoy main hand on my cor and it rocks my socks off in bird camp to do more dmg and gain tp faster then actually having to shoot bullets to gain tp like pre joytoy. test it out and decide for yourself.

There have been tons of arguments about swordchucks vs maneater/ridill vs. perdu voulge, and different people's math have come to different conclusions.

As far as /nin goes, the fact that it's close enough to be arguable means that none of those options are downright disgraceful. Of course, swordchuck war/nin isn't going to keep up with perdu war/sam, but that's apples and oranges.

Swordchucks are situational because war's higher GA skill is going to scale up to HNM level mobs a lot better than war's slightly lower sword skill. KJ/SC are also better suited to HNMs than Rampage/Vorpal.

Still, a well-geared swordchucks war can do very well at HNMs despite his lower skill, so it's largely up to personal preference.

Maneater/Joyeuse, though, is no contest. Use GA over maneater/joy, no questions asked.

I wouldn't use it in a merit PT or anything of the likes. WAR's should be using G-axe mainly. Cant be out parsed. UNLESS, you can get your hands on a ridill and some pretty full on equip.

That said. I use my Joytoy as mainly solo'ing on WAR/DNC. Thats it. lol

im done nyzul so i can get KJ really easy...

yea i guess the piercing TP dmg might tip the scale for bird camps in favour of man+joy

gotcha guys I guess for anything strong stick to GA, and weak stuff maneater+joyeuse works well

lol, no.

Perdu Voulge is generally thought to outdo even maneater/ridill at bird camps. Maneater/joy isn't even close.

i guess for all floors on nyzul maneater+joyeuse might be a good option.

BWAHAHAHAHA. You think so? I doubt it. And if there was a possibility of it. Id go /SAM and pwn you.

dude im 37 war...im just trying to figuere this ***out...

<3

ya ridill is nice but if your not in an HNM shell dunno how'd you get one.

Large sums of gil.

You're also a 75SAM, so let me put it to you this way, and if you don't get it after this description, then there's no helping you.

It's basically like a SAM/WAR using GK over fully merited Polearm with a 5-hit meat build at Greater Colibri camp. It'd work, sure, but it's CLEARLY inferior.

Save the Joyeuse for /NIN at camps where you won't lose your food every fight or two, and use Marinara Pizza +1 to make up for the mediocre accuracy that WAR has with Sword. That or screwing around with /DNC for some nice TP gain while skilling up shield if you're bored as hell.

It's Situational for sure.

Mainly with G.Axe on most of situation when higher skill is required for my part.

Maneater/Joytoy on Nyzul Floor because i hit more often and i found this funny ! But on Meripo at Bird Camp i said >> No, sword skill is a little low for hitting whitout miss and bird steal food ... And for finish on Joytoy i think for efficient combo you need Suppanomimi and a PCC but its my opinion.
Oh and Try with Haste and Marchx2 pretty Funny :D

In my case, i can say you need to land a lot of hit ( 15~18 I don't remember ) for 100TP with Maneater/Joytoy and you need just 6sTP on WAR/NIN G.Axe ( Perdu/Byakko.A) for a 7 Hit.

about 40-50M worth on my server.

ewww who would pay that much? Kclub is less than that

But War have B- on Club Skill so only 240 isn't a little low ? Btw 25M for Ridill on Remora that more interesting ^^;

I am a casual war, but as a few have suggested "situational ***is situational". Stuff like Nyzul climbing I personally prefer Axe/Joy, but for the bosses I'd switch to Graxe. Merit parties it's up to you in my opinion. I've seen other wars be good with both.
Joyeuse has no place near an HNM on a war, imo.
It's up to you and your gear and merits which is better.
Easy stuff; axe/joy. Hard stuff; Graxe.

eh, it's mostly prefrence for merit level mobs, you wouldn't want to use dual-wield on enemies with higher defense. of course fort. axe will do better than both on the merit level too, but virtue stones don't last forever, lol.

generally sword-chucks will beat man/ridill which will beat man/joy (that sounds really gay... lol). the first sets ppl consider somewhat close in total dot which is mostly true on paper, but you will see a larger drop with the last combo. generally, without access to a ridill, you'll be better off using a great axe.

I'm not saying joyeuse isn't without it's uses for war, it's a fun toy to screw around with, but without being able to pair it up with a ridill make sure you have a decent great axe around for when you have to put on your game face.

honestly as a old school war, I believe in playing how ever you want and telling people to *** off if they don't like what ur using. I've done alot of damage dual wielding swords and axes. I've also done hella damage with my GA polearm and scythe. It all depends on how you want to gear your war... don't let people go telling you how you have to play there is no such thing in my opinion when it comes to war.

I Question this.
But in response to the OP, if you're taking War to events, generally stick with GAxe, Perdu Voulge in most cases. The only time I personally ever used to pull out a ME/Sword combo was when fighting something with shadows. Used it so rarely that I ended up selling Maneater.

As you get more used to your War, you're going to take it /sam to a lot more events (especially if you have 75 Sam), and there is zero comparison between GAxe War/Sam and any type of dual wielding /nin.

tl;dr - Since the two hander update, you're generally better off using a GAxe on war.

it all comes down to your gear setup and merits

I started going axe/joytoy from the moment I hit 70 on warrior, mostly because I already had sword merits, and gaxe was a pain to skill up.

Joyeuse is a lot of fun, and you can put up some pretty nice numbers if you have a good set-up for Rampage. However, if you can put together a decent Great Axe set-up, you will do far better. Basically, if all other gear is equal, Great Axe will always be vastly superior to Axe/Axe or Axe/joyeuse.

I leveled warrior partially for a reason to use my joyeuse other than lolrdmmelee. Once I started working seriously towards a Great Axe build, I saw the damage potential and immediately stopped dual wielding. Keep in mind that I have 8/8 sword merits and a Suppanomimi, and the overall damage is still very lackluster compared to Great Axe.

So while Joyeuse is a fun weapon, if you really want to maximize your damage potential you should really always be using a Great Axe, and putting your effort towards that build. Also, Retaliation is much more effective with a Great Axe. A Great Axe build will also allow you to eat meat full-time once you have the right gear for it, whereas with Maneater/Joyeuse you will be married to sushi/pizza depending on the event/camp.

I may as well jump in and offer my experience as Axe/Joy WAR.


Similar to Arcasenal, I wanted to use my Joyeuse for something other than lolmeleebrd, and I had fun levelling WAR, so I took it up and when I hit 70 I started using Joytoy.

It's great for getting fast TP, even though you will miss more often than you would with a secondary axe, the amount it swings is more than enough to make up for the B rating. As many have said though, if you're looking for high damage output (which all DD should be aiming for), a Great Axe will be your best friend.

Needing less Accuracy means you can put up more Att+ and Haste in your Gear, alongside the chances to get a really easy 6-hit build with /SAM.

A lot of my friends don't like using GA because of the long delay between swings, though I can assure you the difference in raw damage output is quite enough a reason for me to /SAM and use GA (or was, until I retired my WAR.. funny this topic should come up as I was thinking about unretiring my WAR XD).

In terms of /DNC solo'ing, then Joytoy should be fine to get TP for waltzes with a respectable Haste/Acc setup going to ensure you can swing and hit fairly often. The problem is the selection of WS's behind it.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure Vorpal Blade is WAR's most potent sword WS, but it requires a lot more attention to it than most GA WS builds, due to the lack of Accuracy a single handed, B rated weapon gives.


tl;dr? Joytoy is pretty, and fun, and can be a perfectly viable offhand with an Axe.. But you'll almost always do better in party situations with a GA!

Just my opinion...
I have nin sam rng war thf 75 and if I have a choice when asked to use war for something, I'm gonna sub /sam every time unless asked to sub something else. (I do ask before just going /sam ^^).

For Nyzul though, I prefer to be sam. My thf is only an lolTH3 thf right now (TH2+1 if you wanna get technical :P), I try to leave the TH'ing up to a better-geared thief ^^

I just got Joy-Toy recently and haven't had any desire to even try
Man/Joy because of King's Justice. Yes, that WS really is that sweet.

There are a lot of factors though and I really have no desire to sit here for as long as it would take, to work out all the math to post the different variations for every little change that could come about.
I think the best word of advice anyone can give is this;

Be mindful of the people you are with and do what you can to do your best for them. Doing your best for yourself is easy and you can quit at any time and still walk away content with your efforts but when people try hard because their friends are counting on them - well, that just seems like a better form of motivation.
Finish war to 75 and then start another job. Sam really does rock birds and turn out some serious merit/hour numbers ^^
Don't get me wrong - war tears it up too, just not like sam ~.^
Gotta watch killing them too fast though or you wind up sitting around waiting on repops and lose your chain....and that's no good =\

On a side note; has anyone considered sam/drk with Souleater & Rana? xD