Joyeuse Viable Weapon?

This made me lol. all i'm gonna say.

Also, unless your dicking around, go with GAX since you have KJ. If your bored as hell and helping a friend, dust off the old joytoy and have some fun. But by no means should you use that combo when playing seriously (other then /dnc). 2-hander update and KJ made sure of this.

I do it with staff on pld. It does nice dmg, and retribution can put up nice number's with a decent ws build. Do I use staff when i'm seriously tanking or doing events? no. Do I use it for teh lulz? yes.

Sidenote: If your sword skill isn't capped, cap it with joytoy even if you dont ever plan to use it. You'll enjoy the piercing dmg on things like Apollyon and ASA nm's, where it's the only means of damage.

@Vincentius I have 304GKT skill and my 240 polearm Tomoe outparses my Hagun at G.Colibri, by FAR.

To OP: 1 thing is super important if you ever decide to go WAR/NIN with Axe/Joy. You MUST have a suppanomimi. Since the multihit weapon will be your main income of TP I also suggest wearing PCC/Fortitude torque over for example Temperance torque if you posess any of these. For TP that is. From personal experience(note I have 8/8 sword merits and 4/8 GA) I only, and only use axe/joy in nyzul or on easy stuff where GA damage caps and axe/joy does not for the max potential. For bosses in nyzul swap to GA at the last floor before boss and use 300%TP SC. It is superior to any other WS, GA, or axe. For merits I also use GA only.

If you have the decked out gears you need to make up for the acc loss by equiping a sword you -could- equip an polearm instead and se greater results(on G.Col), even though joy is piercing for TP. For /SAM it's pretty obvious that GA is superior so there is no point expalining that:D

Tougher the mob, more advantage gax gets. The more haste you have, the more advantage gax gets. DW will work for like EM or lower or nyzul mobs, but on anything that matters, a proper gax build will demolish

I hope you weren't trying to argue with me Retin, because what you said in my direction was basically agreeing with my previous statement.

Oh, and get some polearm merits if you want to make your statement true. Without any, you're nowhere near capped ACC, and thus have to rely on sushi or flat out not be doing near what you could be.

Ok so i am a 75 WAR and i have to say, i outparse my Maneater/joyeuse damage (Even with suppa for the skill) at bird camps with my GA every time. I do still hit VERY accurately without food at greater birds with a joyeuse (mainly because im normally 2x BRDing it but hey) but Gaxe will still outparse it even with Raging Rush

"I do still hit VERY accurately without food at greater birds with a joyeuse"
Get better buffs

I have Perdu voulge.

If you see me meriting on WAR, I guarantee you it'll be maneater/joyeuse. Seriously, sometimes I don't know about this game anymore.

Yuck dw war meripo :(

Wrong.

The way you're doing it.

ok so i figured i would post on this.

Im not sure when you leveled war but it was prob around the same time i did when duel axes or axe/sword was > GA. When i leveled war it was very rare that wars even had GA leveled lol. But when my war hit 55 i started using GA. As i progressed with it i noticed that it did do alot better (granted that this was depending on what i was fighting, buffs etc.) Now that ive had war to 75 for a while now and got KJ unlocked i got rid of the old maneater and stick to my GA. KJ is just that damn good lol. If you dont agree then you either dont have the right gear or not using it right.

Graxe related I was wondering what a good setup for KJ is. I've never noticed it to be that fabulous without 2hr, but maybe I'm not gearing it correcting. Like to hear some of y'alls input on gear for it.

This is what i use at the moment,(and from my personal knowledge about the game it "should" be pretty good,but i still miss some pieces)...anyway for KJ you apply the same "logic" as for every multi-hit weaponskill except that you know that KJ can't crit. like RR or Rampage and it has a higher STR WS Mod,so...



I need Heca Feet and Hachiryu Haidate or Ares Legs especially,(KDE Hat is 25 acc 5 att 4 str,etc).

the big KJ numbers you're seeing other ppl do is mainly due to attack buffs. if you're not getting any atk buffs and don't have berzerk up, RR an' KJ will do similar damage (I'm sure KJ will still average slightly higher), it's when you start feeding those atk buffs that KJ is going to start averaging noticeably higher damage.

I Prefer to use RR when I have bergressor down, and KJ when it's up, as my RR set has a bit more dex and less str then KJ.
I haven't noticed major differences in damage between the two unless I have Mighty Strikes up, in which case KJ is obviously the way to go.

I have my ws Sets for both on my profile so feel free to check that out.

If accuracy is capped, attack is at a decent value, you have acceptable ws gear, and you cannot get a refresh then Maneater/Joyeuse will outdamage any greataxe except Bravura. Obviously Maneater/Ridill is much better if you have it. Einherjar with a proper BRD rotation or non-xarc/tav dynamis come to mind.

If accuracy is not capped, attack is not at a decent value, you do not have acceptable ws gear, or you can get a refresh, then use a Great Axe. If you can get a refresh, the weapon of choice will always be Rune Chopper(of course, barring Bravura again.. though in some cases Rune can outdamage Bravura even). If you cannot get a refresh, Perdu or a good Kheten will both do well.

For the first few years of my wars life I only dual weilded with Man/Joy and I put up some very respectable numbers(this with Axe 8/8 sword 8/8 with Suppa). But I was having issues with acc and I didn't like to gimp the PT and ask for Acc songs, so I decided to switch from Man/Joy to Perdu and do 8/8 GA merits and having been owning ever since. I personally don't have an issue with DW wars if they are gear correctly and understand that I am superior!! But for Joy to work at least for elvaan I think you need to have 8 axe 9 sword and suppa.

Question all you other ppl out there tho.

Am I doing it wrong if RR puts out much better numbers than KJ? I've had KJ for a long time and I was never all the impressed with it so I stuck to RR, but maybe I need to rething this. Any ideas why?

This is typical ws set..and I can alter slightly. I have Aurum legs I can toss in, and I use Moogle expansion hat with Str4 att4 acc10 ws acc15, I also have Heca hands, and Kubira Bead Necklace. I do not have any sea Torques or Gorgets.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=74468

*Ninja edit thanks to Raen!

Yes, you're right. I was WAR when GAXE was taboo, but last time I merited on WAR a couple of weeks ago I tried using gaxe and it definately wasnt better compared to my own warrior with dual weild. I think most people have weak rampages or something is why they say gaxe is better. Sure, its possible that I may not be "geared" ideally for gaxe, but I don't see how I can be far off enough to matter.

Tell me what you would (realistically) change for GAXE build, because as it stands with the same gear, maneater/joyeuse>perdu voulge for me:

DPS


WS

Yes, I think you might be creating a paradox.

EDIT:

@Ashua: Your dualwield WAR will have to use accuracy songs/food there to achieve a good hitrate (eyeballing it, could be wrong). Your gaxe WAR could use more offensive food and/or things like Blitz Ring.

You'll want a WS gorget for... well, WS. I wouldn't use gigas line bracelets or a Heca Harness over Hecatomb Mittens and a Hauby line armor either on a WS that can critical, and relies on accuracy.

Rajas may be better for TP, depending on how it affects hits to TP. It's almost always going to beat a 5acc ring though.

@Zorander: Not a WAR myself and RR/KJ seem quite similar to me in terms of damage output, but RR is going to do more in situations where you are less buffed (since criticals then boost your damage more comparatively). WS Gorget would help, and for KJ if you can afford the accuracy loss you can use gigas-line bracelets and other STR-whoring gears.

Dammit..YOU KNEW WHAT I MEANT!

By the way. I don't know how people collect their data, (regardless of results), but if you're using a parser to compare damage totals, that ***can be skewed all to hell when you consider how feather tickle, as well as hate distribution (shadow recast) can disrupt things.

I edit'd my post, though it might be missed since it's no longer at the front :( people replying too quickly.

Yeah, I know I need ws gorgets but I cant solo ufos so im SoL. I dont have hecatomb mittens. I do use Rajas fulltime, however for two handed weapons. That graphic was represenative for my dual weild DPS. If I am to use GAXE I would be using Askar korazin over Hauberk for dps as well. My acc is generally good for both weapon types. If I get into a party with dual march though, then maneater/joyeuse is that much better. But yeah, I would definately use hecatomb mittens over Alkyoneus bracelets if i had them.

In my opinion people E-peen about spike dmg entirely too much, if I am the only provoke in a merit pt and i am /nin tanking I will typically dual wield since the higher delay of a gaxe means less hitting the mob due to casting times.

It is situational, and i'm not saying it is the way to go but to keep higher chains without stressing out over repops you do need some DoT dmg and not just a pure spike dmg party... This is why i enjoy having a monk in my parties tbh...

Sadly the last time i actually was able to get a party invite as my monk i had to seek for something like 14hrs and i actually worked a 12hr day while seeking still, came home and finally got an invite after a few more hours.

There is such a thing as overkill in a party and if the party kills too fast it's no good, thus maneater/joyeuse is a viable switch if your party finds itself in a situation of overkilling. That's just my thoughts though and if i'm blink tanking i'd much prefer to DW.

The first things that came to mind,(you have a very good set already lol):

1) Use KdE hat for King's Justice instead of Zucchetto,this for sure without question. XD
2) Dont use B.Haidate if you can. [hachiryu haidate >= bahram cuisses > ares > aurum > af2]
3) get a warrior stone if you can,(or use that if you already have it).
4) Alkyoneus's Brac. when aggressor is up,Hecatomb when not.

Dunno if i'm missing something,but that should be everything. °_° ...these are suggestion,i don't know if you have those... °_°

That's true but that also applies to every member in the pt lol,so its not a good point after all...if the hate bounce "more or less" equally then we can just disregard this argument... °_° ...if not than that means the pt is not builded correctly or there's a gimped DD... °_°

There's never equal distribution. One or two always stand out far beyond the rest of the group in these days at least on my server. Also, Rampage damage is nerfed when the mob dies before all hits can register. raging rush has fewer hits and will far less often suffer from this. How many times have you hit your ws macro only to have someone else go a milisecond before leaving only a slither of the mobs hp left to show gimp ws output on rampage? Parsers are good, but theyre not "true" accurate. It shows who "did more dmg" but the variables can make a big difference in numbers. I wish parses would also show who receives more feather tickles. Anyways, some people parse things vrs other people. if anyone wants to test axe/axe vrs axe/sword vrs gaxe vrs anything in this game, at least only parse yourself against yourself and not other people in which gear and merit varience skews everything.

So I am working on getting a ws gorget now, but which do I get! I was under the impression that for multi-hit WS added acc was better, but with GA merits and an A+ weap is this false? Orginally I was working towards one for my sam, but now I am thinking a gorget would be nice for war too.

If so which Gorget should I get first, and why?

@ Ashua..

lets merit sometime and we can parse. I will come War/nin with GA you come War/nin and DW and we can even try to find another war that can voke so we don't have to deal with that, and we can see how close DW gets to a merited GA user.

Side Note* Do you have merit into either Axe or Sword?

**Sorry for completely derailing this thread and making it all about me ^^!

IMO, most of you are just nitpicking.

Dual Wield, or GA, who gives a damn? Merits are merits, and as long as there's a corsair or bard, the parties are fine as is. You're arguing over a difference of maybe a few thousand damage over the course of the party? If that's something that makes you sleep easier at night, then lol...


...take a break from the game.

Goddamn min/maxing extremist ffxiers.

I have 4 axe and 8 sword.

Sure, I don't mind meriting for the sake of edification. Is your gear comparable to mine? I can show you that Ashua GAXE vrs Ashua DW ws dmg is no reason for me personally to use GAXE as my current gear stands.

I need to get closer to finishing SAM merits anyways.

Edit: You have Adaberk >.>

Still sure just for the hell of meriting.

Ele. Gorget's damage boost is only to the first hit, correct, but the acc boost is added to every hit.

askar korazin is never better than haub. (if you can use it) for merit level mobs or higher.

axe/axe, axe/sword, axe/joy, sword/sword, sword/joy won't out damage a comperable great axe build, adding a ridill they can stand on more or less equal grounds in most merit level areas though.

parsing isn't how you determine what's better because human error can make a difference of generally ~4% with decent players. if you want real numbers, do the research on the gear and do the math for it, understand what values are generally needed for your target enemy. if you're too lazy/uninterested in doing so, you shouldn't be giving advice on what's going to do better and make it clear that your advice is based your preference only.