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Prime Weapon Feedback Thread
 Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9740
By Asura.Saevel 2023-06-01 10:05:37
Been in and out lately. Why does anyone think that prime weapons will have a 4th and 5th stage? 3 versions of each weapon in the dats, 4 technically with the stage 2 when the name changes.
hot take: the 3 versions of each weapon aren't stages 3, 4, and 5. they're actually RNG dependent as to which 1 of the 3 you're rewarded with after completing Stage 3, the final stage. this makes for an endless, torturous grind rolling the dice for both max level Prime weapons and max augment JSE earrings. a perfectly balanced duo
Must be very very rucky!
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By Taint 2023-06-01 10:09:20
No wait on Asura during prime time if that tells you anything.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 504
By Asura.Melliny 2023-06-01 10:22:59
Quote: and added a way to make incremental progress toward an earring of your choice, it would be a significant improvement.
Just gimmie a way to trade in my earrings to work toward what I want dammit. They could implement a totally trash system like this and I'd still take it
Trade 20 normal quality earrings for a random +1
Trade 10 +1's for a +1 of my choice
Trade 20 +1's for a random +2
Trade 10 +2's for a +2 of my choice
As horrible as these trade-in values are, even this would be better than the current system. As it stands all these duplicate normal quality and +1 earrings are just a waste of effort. Anything whatsoever that allows us to work toward a specific goal would be welcome. I usually get 6-10 earrings on a decent run, and I've got 15 unique jobs in +1. But I've got many duplicates within those 15 jobs, and I STILL haven't gotten a +1 in one of the jobs I play and really want. I would gladly trade 200 worthless nq earrings for that one specific thing I want at this point. And while that +2 system is total ***, it's still better than what we have right now. We're getting so many nq and +1 duplicates that have no value whatsoever. Even the shittiest of trade in systems could put all those wasted resources to use.
And for what it's worth, with as much gallimaufry as we're probably going to need to get a weapon to stage 5.... you could probably get that +2 earring of your choice in roughly the same amount of runs as it would take to get a stage 5 upgrade. I don't think that should be too much to ask. One specific earring of our choice every 6 months or so. Even that would be a step up from the random on random on random pile on we have currently.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2375
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-06-01 11:26:42
Trade 20 normal quality earrings for a random +1
Trade 10 +1's of the same job for a +1 of my choice
Trade 20 +1's for a random +2
Trade 10 +2's of the same job for a +2 of my choice
Thats what SE will give you.
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By Asura.Disclai 2023-06-01 11:30:51
I don't think Sortie is boring or even unenjoyable in terms of the objectives within. Having both melee and MB comps be viable is something more content should strive for.
The problems arise because:
...Other than those things, I think the event is largely fine.
By Seun 2023-06-01 11:33:09
Trade 20 normal quality earrings for a random +1
Trade 10 +1's for a +1 of my choice
Trade 20 +1's for a random +2
Trade 10 +2's for a +2 of my choice
The first option would likely require you to trade 10 of the same earring. The second option seems the most realistic, mostly because random. The third option is actually strong support for why we shouldn't be crying about earrings in the first place. Do people already have 10 +2 earrings they don't want?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 647
By Asura.Iamaman 2023-06-01 11:39:14
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I would say the difference most people are probably feeling is that you spend so much time running around in Sortie, which is what makes it seem boring. I don't personally think auto-attacking and WSing for 30 minutes straight is interesting or engaging content but apparently 1.5m gil is enough to convince people they're having fun, IDK.
This came up in another thread, but it's basically this.
Segment farming isn't my favorite thing to do, but I find it more engaging and interesting than Sortie is. By the time I'm getting bored of it, it's over and I can go do something else. Sortie just feels like a much larger commitment.
You also spend a lot less time running around doing nothing. For segfarming, each job has fast moving roles for good groups, there is very little downtime if the tank is pulling fast enough. You may have 3 or 4 groups going at once, the BRD is moving to sleep them while dealing damage, etc. It's repetitive, but I find it a lot more engaging than Sortie, where you spend several minutes running from one boss to the next with nothing in-between. The pace is a lot faster if your group is good.
There's also the random element to it of having different mob types. You could run 90% of Sortie the exact same way every time and nothing would have to change, at least in Odyssey you have to manage different weapon types and mob TP moves.
As for gil, yea, the rewards are better also.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 142
By Asura.Neojuggernautx 2023-06-01 11:40:32
Not sure if it's been said, my reading attention bandwidth is pretty small, my biggest dilemma is the same currency being used for upgrading +3 and upgrading Prime stages.
My solution is: Derive from Ambuscade a current gallimaufry point category and a total amount of gallimaufry accumulated. Total points would reduce only on a prime stage upgrade. Spending gallimaufry to upgrade empyrean +3 or any other Ruspix function would not affect the total points accumulated.
I still have a boat load of empy+3 to upgrade and hate that I have to prioritize one thing over the other.
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9894
By Asura.Sechs 2023-06-01 12:33:06
The Ruspix plate system is incredibly stupid and convoluted. Why can't Odyssey and Sortie entry KIs just have Omen-esque accumulation? Granted that an omen-esque accumulation would've been undoubtely much better, but why are you defining the Ruspix system "stupid"?
Convoluted ok, I'll grant you that, but stupid?
I think it was their attempt to find a better compromise than the one they did for Odyssey/Segments, which was no compromise at all. One run a day and you're gonna like it.
Because, let's face it, like it or not it's the direction they've been striving for quite some years now. They want to give players very high incentive to login everyday, they want to disincentivize players who login 2 or 3 days a week and stay online longer, doing lotsa activities those times.
So with Sortie they of course went for the same "daily" ***, but this time they tried to offer a very mild system to compensate for those players who can't login every day, allowing them to do 2 runs in a row every now and then.
The system isn't perfect, and that's probably because it's too convoluted, but the idea behind (offering a small catch-up thing for people who don't login everyday) was nice at least.
I think that while not ideal of course, it's a better situation than the odyssey one at least.
Don't get me wrong though, not trying to play devil's advocate here, I said it in the premise of this post. Just wanted to say that, while imperfect, to me it's a very small step in the right direction, compared to Odyssey.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1115
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-06-01 13:11:55
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »@Kylos Your opinion about Nyzul, Einherjar and Assaults is like that only because you have made only 2 mythics and probably not rushed. Assaults is 90% just running and AoE. Einherjar is 2-3min go in and AoE. Nyzul is running and AoE and *** lamps on top. Its all the same with almost no variety. Try to rush it all and you will see how tedious it is.
Sortie may ask you to jump around on one leg while rubbing your tummy naked while magic bursting an Umbril for 1k damage, but that’s not varied.
Currently you have at least those repetitive objective:
- magic damage/kills
- magic bursting
- 4 step skillchains
- looking for NM and kill in 5 min
- killing trash fast
- kill bosses fast or use various JA to deal with otherwise instat KO move
- Kill NMs to avoid statuses/damage on bosses. This include damage from behind or killing trash while being engaged to NM. There is still unknow condition for Ixion
- proc blue by reacting to element of TP moves with right elemental damage
- right positioning during boss fight
- special gimmicks for mega boss including Absorb TP, darkness damage etc.
- killing in order
and probably few more I don't remember.
^^ this exactly. People saying this content is boring aren't fairly comparing it to other content, TBH. Is it repetitive? Yes. So is every single bit of content in this game. Dyna [D], Odyssey, Vagary, Omen, every thing you could think of is exactly the same every time you go into it, sorry. Running around Sheol ABC hitting enemies with your weapon skills is not interesting nor engaging.
I would say the difference most people are probably feeling is that you spend so much time running around in Sortie, which is what makes it seem boring. I don't personally think auto-attacking and WSing for 30 minutes straight is interesting or engaging content but apparently 1.5m gil is enough to convince people they're having fun, IDK.
Sortie is challenging, has a variety of mechanics, is a choose-your-own-adventure, requires teamwork and cooperation, planning, and takes advantage of pretty much every one of FFXI's (limited) mechanics. IDK what you all expected, 3 different events to spam?
I don't think it makes any sense to have a Ultimate weapon come from RoE or other events. If muffins dropped from Dyna [D] or Odyssey, I'd be really disappointed TBH. I don't think you should be able to farm an ultimate weapon by never (or hardly) touching the content it was designed alongside. If you could farm a Mythic without entering Aht Urghan Whitegate, it would be lame AF.
Yeah I'm definitely echoing this sentiment. If you did mythics before adjustments they were slow, repetitve and unrealistic for casual progress. If you had done your Alex in Salvage you'd know how much you want to scrape the stink of whitegate off your eyes. Now imagine doing it so you could help your friends or LS members and not be working on your own.
Because that's how it used to be. My 2 friends and i, all get to work on primes or empy upgrades at the same time. This is actually an improvement over how remas usually roll out. We don't need geared mule characters to rotate multiple runs a day so we can all work on our stuff at the same time.
That being said, i did not enjoy Sortie very much before I started waiting for people to run with me. I used to do max solo chests, which is a lot of disappointments, and I wouldn't still be running sortie past required +3s if i kept doing it that way. Now we do ACE and gold chest up top for like 20k+ a run and it's just more enjoyable. Bosses seem to have a higher drop rate for +1 cases and even though we aren't going 50k runs we will get to stage 3 in what i think a reasonable time will be.
It's still grueling, but SE is used to doing that to their payer base with REMAs
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By Meeble 2023-06-01 13:32:46
Now we do ACE and gold chest up top for like 20k+ a run and it's just more enjoyable. Bosses seem to have a higher drop rate for +1 cases and even though we aren't going 50k runs we will get to stage 3 in what i think a reasonable time will be.
Assuming the 6-month estimate is based around 50-60k/day, it will take you somewhere between 450-540 hours over 15-18 months to finish a single weapon at 20k/run.
Mind you, that's 15-18 months if you run every day. If you slack off and only grind 5 days a week it'll take significantly longer.
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Phoenix.Jimie
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 277
By Phoenix.Jimie 2023-06-01 13:49:36
Even the shittiest of trade in systems could put all those wasted resources to use.
Wasted resources is a recurring theme with Sortie which really makes it feel like amateur hour in the game design dept.
NQ old cases are pointless, nq is npc fodder and hq+1 earrings are too if you have +2 or better augments, plus old case+1 exist.
Octahedrite is pointless, you'll have way more than you need by the time you have the galli to upgrade.
Voracious psyche is pointless, same as above.
Sapphires are mostly pointless, again you'll likely have way more than you'll ever use before you get the galli to use them, plus 110 sapphires is the max you'd ever need anyway.
Armor and weapon upgrades tied to the same system means using resources on one or the other.
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Asura.Haxetc
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 147
By Asura.Haxetc 2023-06-01 14:08:22
Now we do ACE and gold chest up top for like 20k+ a run and it's just more enjoyable. Bosses seem to have a higher drop rate for +1 cases and even though we aren't going 50k runs we will get to stage 3 in what i think a reasonable time will be.
Assuming the 6-month estimate is based around 50-60k/day, it will take you somewhere between 450-540 hours over 15-18 months to finish a single weapon at 20k/run.
Mind you, that's 15-18 months if you run every day. If you slack off and only grind 5 days a week it'll take significantly longer. 50k/day is a pace for a 4 month finish with just galli. 20k/day is a pace for 10 months. Assuming 6 million galli with the 1m/2m/3m assumption. At 50k/day you make 1 million every 20 days. I believe the chokepoint will be from RoE and that's where the 6 month minimum comes from. But from a pure galli mindset your numbers are off. Plus they were talking aobut just stage 3 which is just a bit over 1.5 months or 50 days if you got exactly 20k/run.
Edit: For reference, if it's 6 million galli, you'd need 33334 galli per run to hit the 6 month mark.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 64
By Asura.Hotworks 2023-06-01 15:01:40
Kinda rough when everyone wants +3 5/5 Empy armor on all 22 jobs.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 504
By Asura.Melliny 2023-06-01 15:02:00
Quote: Assuming 6 million galli with the 1m/2m/3m assumption.
For all we know it could be 1 million, 2.5 million, and 5 million. The 6 million total is just a guess that some people have tossed around. Until the game actually throws a value at us when someone finishes stage 3 we won't know what stage 4's requirements are. I figure we'll probably find out in another week or so. Then we can probably make more accurate guesses on what stage 5 will entail. The scaling from stage 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 are so radically disproportionate that we don't have a reliable basis to make assumptions from at this point.
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 Ragnarok.Primex
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Ragnarok.Primex 2023-06-01 15:03:39
Trade 20 normal quality earrings for a random +1
Trade 10 +1's for a +1 of my choice
Trade 20 +1's for a random +2
Trade 10 +2's for a +2 of my choice you guys ever been to Japan?
Sorry this ain't racism. disclaimer in advance. I'm a huge fan of the culture, the people, everything.
BUT
they sure do be addicted to anything that is random, like gambling.
Your progressive upgrading logic is something I'd enjoy.
but in Japan, I don't think they actually find it interesting.
Go out in tokyo on any night during the week and there's only two things busy after work hours, the bars and all the damn gatcha stuff.
Men and women of every age in these spots just going at it to get some random rare toy, model or something.
Meanwhile everything else is empty.
they love randomness. its just a thing. they enjoy it. /shrug
By Meeble 2023-06-01 15:26:06
Quote: Assuming 6 million galli with the 1m/2m/3m assumption.
For all we know it could be 1 million, 2.5 million, and 5 million. The 6 million total is just a guess that some people have tossed around. Until the game actually throws a value at us when someone finishes stage 3 we won't know what stage 4's requirements are. I figure we'll probably find out in another week or so. Then we can probably make more accurate guesses on what stage 5 will entail. The scaling from stage 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 are so radically disproportionate that we don't have a reliable basis to make assumptions from at this point.
Or 1/3/6; 10m total is just under what a group doing 50k/70k alternating runs would make if they did Sortie every day from now until Thanksgiving. 1/5/10 seems a bit high, but maybe Fujito was being optimistic.
All we really know is that some motivated players may be able to finish a weapon in 2023 and the main limiting factor is the 20hr Sortie lockout.
Oh, and
Quote: you may feel that the final stage of strengthening is a little harsh
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Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2023-06-01 15:30:09
Been in and out lately. Why does anyone think that prime weapons will have a 4th and 5th stage? 3 versions of each weapon in the dats, 4 technically with the stage 2 when the name changes.
hot take: the 3 versions of each weapon aren't stages 3, 4, and 5. they're actually RNG dependent as to which 1 of the 3 you're rewarded with after completing Stage 3, the final stage. this makes for an endless, torturous grind rolling the dice for both max level Prime weapons and max augment JSE earrings. a perfectly balanced duo
Must be very very rucky!
So wait, it's not just the 4 stages that we know of now and can see in the .dats?
I'd definitely bet that SE failed to implement the models properly (using the same one for all 3 stages instead of changing them) as opposed to there actually being 2 more stages they're adding in the future. Have they actually made any statements saying that there will be more upgrades?
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Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1682
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-06-01 15:45:15
Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 282
By Asura.Hya 2023-06-01 15:46:15
So wait, it's not just the 4 stages that we know of now and can see in the .dats? From what I have seen, people are categorizing the upgrade stages differently. Some people refer to them in the following stages:
Stage 1 - Prime Weapon obtained via 10k Gallimaufry
Stage 2 - Named Weapon obtained via 10k Gallimaufry plus Eikondrite
Stage 3 - Named Weapon which no longer has Devours Soul effect, Sortie only WS
Stage 4 - Named Weapon which no longer restricts WS to Sortie
Stage 5 - Named Weapon with maximum stats (277 skill etc.)
or
Base - Prime Weapon
Stage 1 - Named Weapon obtained via 10k Gallimaufry plus Eikondrite
Stage 2 - Named Weapon which no longer has Devours Soul effect, Sortie only WS
Stage 3 - Named Weapon which no longer restricts WS to Sortie
Stage 4 - Named Weapon with maximum stats (277 skill etc.)
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Iamaman 2023-06-01 15:47:50
So wait, it's not just the 4 stages that we know of now and can see in the .dats?
I'd definitely bet that SE failed to implement the models properly (using the same one for all 3 stages instead of changing them) as opposed to there actually being 2 more stages they're adding in the future. Have they actually made any statements saying that there will be more upgrades?
Some are assuming there will be augments in the future, but unless I missed it, I don't recall any mention by SE that it'll progress beyond what we currently know of now (which is 5 stages from base to finish).
By Felgarr 2023-06-01 17:13:40
Feedback:
I would have prefered that they added Beaucedine Glacier and Xarcabard to Dynamis Divergence, instead of creating Sortie.
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-06-01 17:32:14
possibly the most true thing I've ever said on this forum:
The Prime Staff model should have been that gold staff the Taru has in the penultimate battlefield.
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2000
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2023-06-01 17:49:48
Sortie is trash
If you like sortie something is wrong with you mentally
Get help and tell SE to make FFXI fun again
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1115
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-06-01 17:54:49
Now we do ACE and gold chest up top for like 20k+ a run and it's just more enjoyable. Bosses seem to have a higher drop rate for +1 cases and even though we aren't going 50k runs we will get to stage 3 in what i think a reasonable time will be.
Assuming the 6-month estimate is based around 50-60k/day, it will take you somewhere between 450-540 hours over 15-18 months to finish a single weapon at 20k/run.
Mind you, that's 15-18 months if you run every day. If you slack off and only grind 5 days a week it'll take significantly longer.
I'm not counting stage 4 and 5 until they get here. Also if the WSs are brokeAF then using them in Sortie will make you SUPER EFFECTIVE!
I personally want to believe that there will be no Galli cost for stage 4 but an outrageous bottleneck on stones and psyche. We'll have a solid 2 months of forum rage with everyone saying how they can't believe they designed something so poorly and how they miss the prospect of farming Galli because the stones are super rando. Then after that stage with everyone spending their excess Galli on Empy +3s they'll finally get to stage 5 which is 25m Galli and the salt will flow. This is the level of troll I believe in my heart that SE aspires to.
Administrator
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By Idiot Boy 2023-06-01 19:31:20
I personally want to believe that there will be no Galli cost for stage 4 but an outrageous bottleneck on stones and psyche. We'll have a solid 2 months of forum rage with everyone saying how they can't believe they designed something so poorly and how they miss the prospect of farming Galli because the stones are super rando. Then after that stage with everyone spending their excess Galli on Empy +3s they'll finally get to stage 5 which is 25m Galli and the salt will flow. This is the level of troll I believe in my heart that SE aspires to.
I would respect the hell out of this tbh
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2023-06-01 20:14:14
So wait, it's not just the 4 stages that we know of now and can see in the .dats?
I'd definitely bet that SE failed to implement the models properly (using the same one for all 3 stages instead of changing them) as opposed to there actually being 2 more stages they're adding in the future. Have they actually made any statements saying that there will be more upgrades?
Some are assuming there will be augments in the future, but unless I missed it, I don't recall any mention by SE that it'll progress beyond what we currently know of now (which is 5 stages from base to finish).
ok, so the weapons are kinda mediocre unless the WSs are great
Hello FFXIAH.
I'm posting a thread to gather feedback on the Prime Weapon creation process. Please be serious. If I see anyone being the usual shitter you're getting topicbanned and your post deleted. This isn't a playground for your dumbass circular arguments. Just write down how you feel about the prime weapon forging process (as we know it right now), what you think could be changed, etc..
For the future this thread will also be the place to post about Stage 4 and 5 feedback as well as weapon balance feedback. For now keep it to what we know, not speculation.
My feedback to get us started:
A) The primary currency used to upgrade Prime Weapons being shared with the Empyrean Armor upgrade currency with no alternative paths for either thing is needlessly oppressive.
Suggestion: Something like a system where Sortie bosses can drop a voucher that Ruspix will accept in place of Gallimaufry for Empyrean Armor upgrades. Ground floor NMs could drop a ticket worth 10,000 Gallimaufry for +2 upgrades, and Basement Bosses could have a chance to drop one worth 70,000 for +3 upgrades. These tickets would not be redeemable in any other way.
B) Octahedrites are meaningless. This may change for later stages, but as it stands these items could simply not exist and it wouldn't matter. You need only 2 of them, they drop from everything, and by the time you have 1,000,000 Gallimaufry for the Stage 3 upgrade, you will have enough Octahedrite to do almost every Prime in the game, if not more than enough for all of them.
Suggestion: Skew it more toward needing these stones than Galli? Probably too late to change this but that's what I would have done.
C) The time investment that SE wants is kind of ridiculous. I'm not saying that 6-12 months is unreasonable for an ultimate weapon, that part is fine. If they want to have these be long term goals that you're working toward for a while, that's not unusual and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the fact that progress is tied to a long daily event that, quite frankly, is losing its luster for a lot of players. I could also mention that the amount of Galli needed vs the amount acquired by the average solo player (read: joe schmo going in there and getting 6-8k a day, not turbosweats with 3 characters getting 30k+) is pretty much unattainable even at just Stage 3 but I don't think this is that big of a deal since Ultimate Weapons don't have to be tuned around soloability. It's worthy of consideration though.
Suggestion: There's no easy solution to this due to how it has been set up. Ideally I'd set Sortie to a 3 day lockout and triple Gallimaufry gains to compensate but you aren't likely to do that. Stacking plates (the ruspix plate is not sufficient in its current form) a la Omen canteens would help too, but since population imbalance in some servers would prohibit ease of access to the content if you did that, I can't see this happening either. Either way, the way it is set up now is pretty awful and I wish it were different.
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