I really don't think curbing mercing is their rationale for content being 6-man.
Rather, it probably just follows logically to them to lower group size for endgame events for a game whose population is on the decline. Plus 6-man content is easier to balance toward the type of tighter challenge they've been aiming for with Odyssey and Sortie's high end.
Making the content less mercable is probably just a happy coincidence. Not like they exactly try to combat it via other means. They could make it bannable to advertise mercs in yell if they wanted, like I believe they did in FFXIV(?).
It does make including friends a total pain in the *** though, as much as I appreciate the challenge. Definitely a bummer.
Prime Weapon Feedback Thread
Prime Weapon Feedback Thread
Vagary didnt scale at all.
Dyna-D doesnt scale, was presumably built around 18 people, and its easily done with 6 well geared players.
Omen doesnt scale (other than objectives, up to 6) yet it allows alliances despite being easily done with 6. I could be wrong on this one, but I dont notice any difference in Ou's HP with 6 or 12 people.
Dyna-D doesnt scale, was presumably built around 18 people, and its easily done with 6 well geared players.
Omen doesnt scale (other than objectives, up to 6) yet it allows alliances despite being easily done with 6. I could be wrong on this one, but I dont notice any difference in Ou's HP with 6 or 12 people.
I've mellowed considerably in the last 2 weeks. I play with 2 other people and we do daily sortie. Yesterday was the first day one of us expressed disinterest in doing it and so we didn't. The world didn't end.
By the time we get enough Galli to turn in on stage 3:
1. Some people will have gotten there to let us know what stage 4 will be.
2. We might have more info on the weapons we are thinking about.
3. We won't be locked into a weapon we have to complete/abandon to pivot
4. If the weapons blow, we'll have tricked ourselves into doing Empy +3 upgrades for all of the jobs.
5. I got a DRK+2 earring this week. Time to make a DRK!
I remember doing NM kills outside abyssea for Empys when I had no idea how spawns worked. Doing dyna currency solo/duo when it was reworked. And grinding 2 mythics from salvage only, more recently. All worse than stage 3.
Sortie is boring and blows an hour of your day right out the window. I'm older and more cantankerous with less free time. The format of this content is pretty bad, but I'm doing ok currently. I suspect stage 4 or 5 will make me rage. Or laugh at SEs troll mastery level.
By the time we get enough Galli to turn in on stage 3:
1. Some people will have gotten there to let us know what stage 4 will be.
2. We might have more info on the weapons we are thinking about.
3. We won't be locked into a weapon we have to complete/abandon to pivot
4. If the weapons blow, we'll have tricked ourselves into doing Empy +3 upgrades for all of the jobs.
5. I got a DRK+2 earring this week. Time to make a DRK!
I remember doing NM kills outside abyssea for Empys when I had no idea how spawns worked. Doing dyna currency solo/duo when it was reworked. And grinding 2 mythics from salvage only, more recently. All worse than stage 3.
Sortie is boring and blows an hour of your day right out the window. I'm older and more cantankerous with less free time. The format of this content is pretty bad, but I'm doing ok currently. I suspect stage 4 or 5 will make me rage. Or laugh at SEs troll mastery level.
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
SE, merge some servers if one of the most endearing aspects of your gameplay is no longer possible on some of your servers.
Unfortunately, SE does a VERY half-*** job scaling mob HP: They increase HP as a set amount per character implying each person pulls the same amount of weight, except it doesnt work that way. You throw more melee in, and skillchain damage goes out the window (unless you're fighting one of those "dont SC" mobs). You add more nukers in, and they just run into the nuke wall. The DPS potential drops.
inb4: "becuz mercs will merc everything"
Aye, they do a shitty job at scaling, and my comments about the death of alliance content being connected to SE thinking it couldn't succeed, I'm mostly thinking about my many years on Leviathan, and some great people there who deserve as good of an in-game experience as people on bigger servers. I'm sure the same can be said of many small servers- good people who just don't have the access due to lack of people to play with.
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While I don't expect it to happen, I can see Sortie being eventually made into alliance content.
Would that drastically change farming speed?
I mean it would be a change for sure, but I don't expect that any large group would then immediately become able to farm 8+1 bosses every run.
The main problem hindering Sortie's performance as an alliance is that past a certain point it's hard to split up.
I'm not sure if everybody is aware already, but sortie is divided in 6 different "rooms". Each "room" is independent and if players are in different rooms, they won't share progress.
Rooms:
1) Upstairs (Zone A, B, C and D are the same room)
2) Basement E
3) Basement F
4) Basement G
5) Basement H
6) Boss room (it's the same room, regardless of where you access it from, can't enter more than 1 "boss room" at the same time)
If Player1 is Upstairs and Player2 is in E and it opens MetalE chest, Player1 will not get it, nor will he get the Galli reward.
If Player1 is in F and Player2 is in G and Player2 gets MetalG chest, Player1 will not receive it, etc etc
So sure, an alliance can farm upstairs just fine by splitting to gain all Shards (even metal if you want) faster, but past that? You'd sorta have to stick together.
Yes if someone aggroes and makes a huge link train, it's gonna be easier to handle it with an alliance.
Yes if you wanna get additional chests by slaughtering all monsters, it will be much more feasible with like 14 people than with 6.
Yes bosses might go down a bit faster (but they are already killed in under 3 minutes, so...)
Stuff like this is all good I guess, but would it be a massive difference? Imho no.
I would still be very very happy if they were ever to do it eh, don't get me wrong.
Being able to kill 8 bosses + Aminon in the same run would be >80k Galli per run. Furthermore it would allow way more groups to do at least 8 bosses runs, whereas now you sorta need a very good group and/or a bit of luck with the spawning of Bitzers/minibosses to be able to do it.
That's basically double the Galli farming rate than an average group gets atm (>40k per run)
Would that drastically change farming speed?
I mean it would be a change for sure, but I don't expect that any large group would then immediately become able to farm 8+1 bosses every run.
The main problem hindering Sortie's performance as an alliance is that past a certain point it's hard to split up.
I'm not sure if everybody is aware already, but sortie is divided in 6 different "rooms". Each "room" is independent and if players are in different rooms, they won't share progress.
Rooms:
1) Upstairs (Zone A, B, C and D are the same room)
2) Basement E
3) Basement F
4) Basement G
5) Basement H
6) Boss room (it's the same room, regardless of where you access it from, can't enter more than 1 "boss room" at the same time)
If Player1 is Upstairs and Player2 is in E and it opens MetalE chest, Player1 will not get it, nor will he get the Galli reward.
If Player1 is in F and Player2 is in G and Player2 gets MetalG chest, Player1 will not receive it, etc etc
So sure, an alliance can farm upstairs just fine by splitting to gain all Shards (even metal if you want) faster, but past that? You'd sorta have to stick together.
Yes if someone aggroes and makes a huge link train, it's gonna be easier to handle it with an alliance.
Yes if you wanna get additional chests by slaughtering all monsters, it will be much more feasible with like 14 people than with 6.
Yes bosses might go down a bit faster (but they are already killed in under 3 minutes, so...)
Stuff like this is all good I guess, but would it be a massive difference? Imho no.
I would still be very very happy if they were ever to do it eh, don't get me wrong.
Being able to kill 8 bosses + Aminon in the same run would be >80k Galli per run. Furthermore it would allow way more groups to do at least 8 bosses runs, whereas now you sorta need a very good group and/or a bit of luck with the spawning of Bitzers/minibosses to be able to do it.
That's basically double the Galli farming rate than an average group gets atm (>40k per run)
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If they ever make it an alliance content, then probably will also scale HP on bosses, meaning Aminon wouldnt probably go faster and could go slower (you cant really overnuke Aminon, because you will feed too much TP). They would probably also scale Galli, so it wouldn't be 80k. Also good luck coordinate random 18ppl splitting up (because I dont think you assume same 18 ppl static every day right?). Unless you simply want 3x 6boxers there.
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SimonSes said: »
Also good luck coordinate random 18ppl splitting up
Seriously though, the fact you *can* bring up to 18 people doesn't mean you *have* to bring exactely 18.
You could bring, dunno, like 10 people in 2 pts to have more buffers, more synergies and stuff like that?
That's what I had in mind.
I dunno, I personally like the idea. And if someone doesn't like it, they can continue to do Sortie with 6 people just fine.
I just wanted to underline that because of how the sub-zones of Sortie are split up, going with an alliance would certainly be a noticeable difference but not as massive as many may think.
I mean, without this "separation" issue, you could split in 4 groups and kill everything and be done in less than 30 mins and nomnom, that would be lovely, wouldn't it? XD But it's not gonna happen!
The only change they would have to make to Sortie to make it Alliance friendly is to allow boss galli + drops go to everyone in the corresponding zones that the boss room is accessible (or even unlimited range for even easier).
You have people do ABCD bosses while the rest of people do mini's and chests. You can split the work up however you want it for efficiency. Everyone gets everything that everyone worked on in the upper floor because the upper floor bosses correspond to the entire upper floor.
Then you move to a basement (lets just say E) Everyone buffs up. The people who need to get through the arch go in first and go for the botulus and then the boss. Another group does the flans and fodder on the far side of the arch. Another group does the Naaks and the fodder before the arch. So long as everyone is in E when the boss dies and objectives get done, they all get the full rewards. Anyone not in E gets nothing because they were too high to figure out where they were supposed to be.
Everyone doesn't have to be top tier boss slaying machines with 2 SCHs per group to have a good run. You can have support groups that clear the fodder to add value to alliance members that are clearly better geared and would be doing boss runs without them. Everyone benefits and we have LSs again. More hands make less work, people have time to have inappropriate jokes in discord and have fun while doing their daily 1h grind to Primes.
This isn't how Sortie works. It's already coded and we don't have the prospects of devs being able to improve their original concept because they are all ghosts now. We're boned.
You have people do ABCD bosses while the rest of people do mini's and chests. You can split the work up however you want it for efficiency. Everyone gets everything that everyone worked on in the upper floor because the upper floor bosses correspond to the entire upper floor.
Then you move to a basement (lets just say E) Everyone buffs up. The people who need to get through the arch go in first and go for the botulus and then the boss. Another group does the flans and fodder on the far side of the arch. Another group does the Naaks and the fodder before the arch. So long as everyone is in E when the boss dies and objectives get done, they all get the full rewards. Anyone not in E gets nothing because they were too high to figure out where they were supposed to be.
Everyone doesn't have to be top tier boss slaying machines with 2 SCHs per group to have a good run. You can have support groups that clear the fodder to add value to alliance members that are clearly better geared and would be doing boss runs without them. Everyone benefits and we have LSs again. More hands make less work, people have time to have inappropriate jokes in discord and have fun while doing their daily 1h grind to Primes.
This isn't how Sortie works. It's already coded and we don't have the prospects of devs being able to improve their original concept because they are all ghosts now. We're boned.
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My take on the Primes will depends if the requirements for stage 4-5 are as we expect them to be. I'm still kinda hoping for them to be a bit different than what everyone expect. It will probably not be tho.
I think they did it to keep us busy for several months while they implement whatever master trial they have in mind, since that's what appears to be the most we could expect from the dev team in the future (and, to be honest, i couldn't care less about them if it's just to get some lockstyle item).
Our group started doing Sortie again this week, after a ~5 months hiatus for most of us. We stopped right before they corrected the WS wall thing, so I was hoping it would maybe be a little more fun now, not having to scream at the game because it's lagging like hell and stratagems didn't work properly, breaking the sch sc. Well it's not. It's still the same annoying borefest. Segments farming or Omen are repetitive but at least you don't spend half your time in there running around, casting sneak/invi, or complete some dumb objectives. I was kinda surprised that there was no new info on how to proc the Ixion coffer but I think it just shows how uninteresting the content is.
I think there was plenty of other ways they could've come up with, rather than this galli farm. Like, why not make it like Omen where you gotta chose one boss per run, and then you could've an item drop off Aminon for the Prime. Make it a monthly objective, something like that. Would still have people subbed every month, without the need for daily farm.
And if you want to farm extra galli for empy reforging, then fine, you can do it too.
It would exclude solo players, sure, but let's be honest, it's also kinda the case with how it's designed right now.
The way you get the second entrance KI is also stupid as it can possibly be. Might as well just not implement it at all.
And I'll finish with a personal rant. The BRD instrument. Yeah, with BRD as one of my main, that thing will either be first or 2nd on the Prime list. New song that everyone will want in 6 months, that will be "required" in any Ambu/Ody/Omen/whatever else group. At the very least on stage 4. Can't skip it. We all know how that works.
So yeah, like I said, first or 2nd. But if the grind is as we expect it to be, there will probably never be a 2nd for me. So first and only it will be, yay.
I think they did it to keep us busy for several months while they implement whatever master trial they have in mind, since that's what appears to be the most we could expect from the dev team in the future (and, to be honest, i couldn't care less about them if it's just to get some lockstyle item).
Our group started doing Sortie again this week, after a ~5 months hiatus for most of us. We stopped right before they corrected the WS wall thing, so I was hoping it would maybe be a little more fun now, not having to scream at the game because it's lagging like hell and stratagems didn't work properly, breaking the sch sc. Well it's not. It's still the same annoying borefest. Segments farming or Omen are repetitive but at least you don't spend half your time in there running around, casting sneak/invi, or complete some dumb objectives. I was kinda surprised that there was no new info on how to proc the Ixion coffer but I think it just shows how uninteresting the content is.
I think there was plenty of other ways they could've come up with, rather than this galli farm. Like, why not make it like Omen where you gotta chose one boss per run, and then you could've an item drop off Aminon for the Prime. Make it a monthly objective, something like that. Would still have people subbed every month, without the need for daily farm.
And if you want to farm extra galli for empy reforging, then fine, you can do it too.
It would exclude solo players, sure, but let's be honest, it's also kinda the case with how it's designed right now.
The way you get the second entrance KI is also stupid as it can possibly be. Might as well just not implement it at all.
And I'll finish with a personal rant. The BRD instrument. Yeah, with BRD as one of my main, that thing will either be first or 2nd on the Prime list. New song that everyone will want in 6 months, that will be "required" in any Ambu/Ody/Omen/whatever else group. At the very least on stage 4. Can't skip it. We all know how that works.
So yeah, like I said, first or 2nd. But if the grind is as we expect it to be, there will probably never be a 2nd for me. So first and only it will be, yay.
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
You have people do ABCD bosses while the rest of people do mini's and chests.
Wether you're talking about A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H or Aminon boss rooms, despite players accessing that room from different Bitzers, it's the same physical area inside the zone.
As such, you can't access more than one boss room at the same time.
So if you split in 4 and people get to the Boss bitzer, Group 2, 3 and 4 would have to wait until Group 1 is out of the boss zone, for them to be able to enter their respective boss room.
So even if you make so everybody inside the zone get the points/drops (atm only people inside the boss room do), you would still have to "wait" a bit.
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The 1M Gallimaufry requirement for Stage 3 makes little sense as at that stage (most) of the Prime weapons are not an upgrade from existing options for the amount of time/effort spent.
Consider that a "new" player can easily have a Kaja / Pulse tier Ambuscade weapon made in one or two months even if they are working at it solo and it starts to look even more ridiculous. Naegling aside, look at Karambit versus Stage 3 Varga Purnikawa. It isn't even an upgrade at this point of progression which would take a solo or low-man player 6 to 8 months to obtain (plus, Ambuscade is available much earlier than fully completing RoV + TVR, especially considering several TVR fights are tough for soloers...not to mention that Ambuscade gives many other benefits too outside of just the weapon).
The secondary issue is that Sortie is all-inclusive. You do not gain gil there, the EXP/Capacity/Exemplar gains are low, you don't obtain any resources that can be used anywhere else. It takes double the amount of time of other content (30m vs 1h), which is a considerable difference. I'm already at the point where I have to consider if I even bother with it each day as I only have about 1h each night for FFXI in the first place. Do I farm some segments and maybe do some job point grinding or do I do Sortie and get 6000 ~ 9000 Gallimaufry and if I'm lucky some Old Cases which won't give me the earrings I still need? Adding a "after 8 months of doing that you can get a weapon that isn't an upgrade for you" isn't exactly sweetening the deal, especially considering there are two more stages beyond that which are currently unknown, but based on how Stage 3 works it isn't looking good.
I'm just baffled that this is how they have implemented it. The progression could have easily been gated by the Psyches or -hedrites and then at least you wouldn't feel "bad" for upgrading your gear and eating into your future Prime weapon(s)...
Consider that a "new" player can easily have a Kaja / Pulse tier Ambuscade weapon made in one or two months even if they are working at it solo and it starts to look even more ridiculous. Naegling aside, look at Karambit versus Stage 3 Varga Purnikawa. It isn't even an upgrade at this point of progression which would take a solo or low-man player 6 to 8 months to obtain (plus, Ambuscade is available much earlier than fully completing RoV + TVR, especially considering several TVR fights are tough for soloers...not to mention that Ambuscade gives many other benefits too outside of just the weapon).
The secondary issue is that Sortie is all-inclusive. You do not gain gil there, the EXP/Capacity/Exemplar gains are low, you don't obtain any resources that can be used anywhere else. It takes double the amount of time of other content (30m vs 1h), which is a considerable difference. I'm already at the point where I have to consider if I even bother with it each day as I only have about 1h each night for FFXI in the first place. Do I farm some segments and maybe do some job point grinding or do I do Sortie and get 6000 ~ 9000 Gallimaufry and if I'm lucky some Old Cases which won't give me the earrings I still need? Adding a "after 8 months of doing that you can get a weapon that isn't an upgrade for you" isn't exactly sweetening the deal, especially considering there are two more stages beyond that which are currently unknown, but based on how Stage 3 works it isn't looking good.
I'm just baffled that this is how they have implemented it. The progression could have easily been gated by the Psyches or -hedrites and then at least you wouldn't feel "bad" for upgrading your gear and eating into your future Prime weapon(s)...
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Dont forget a new player will also have to decide to put that Galli towards Emp+2/3 or the Prime weapon. For a new player, 80k Galli isnt chump change.
[+]
Ragnarok.Shaedhen said: »
And I'll finish with a personal rant. The BRD instrument. Yeah, with BRD as one of my main, that thing will either be first or 2nd on the Prime list. New song that everyone will want in 6 months, that will be "required" in any Ambu/Ody/Omen/whatever else group. At the very least on stage 4. Can't skip it. We all know how that works.
I doubt you'll see people demanding BRD has that song, there are better uses for your limited song spots than 1-5% PDL and PDL is arguably useless in a lot of that content. Even if it wasn't, there are better ways to get PDL than losing that song slot and assuming the 5% cap is correct, it isn't a lot.
I would have much rather seen a defensive version of Honor March on it, something that increases meva, def, hp, adds regen, etc. Their emphasis on PDL is a bit baffling.
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Asura.Iamaman said: »
I doubt you'll see people demanding BRD has that song, there are better uses for your limited song spots than 1-5% PDL and PDL is arguably useless in a lot of that content. Even if it wasn't, there are better ways to get PDL than losing that song slot and assuming the 5% cap is correct, it isn't a lot.
I would have much rather seen a defensive version of Honor March on it, something that increases meva, def, hp, adds regen, etc. Their emphasis on PDL is a bit baffling.
I would have much rather seen a defensive version of Honor March on it, something that increases meva, def, hp, adds regen, etc. Their emphasis on PDL is a bit baffling.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm 99% positive that it will never be a mandatory song to have. But I'm also 99% sure people will ask for it regardless. And to be honest, I hate the idea of not having every song available to me so I would try to have it just for completion sake. I could see it interesting as a 5th song in seg farm maybe, not that it would change much, just even bigger numbers on SB to please the dps.
I totally agree about the defensive version of HM. Either that, or something more mage-oriented. Or a enhanced version of a debuff. There was a lot of options really.
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Personally I think the largest unanswered prospect is whether or not these weapons are worth the effort that's expected from this grind.
All we have to go off is the stats on paper and aftermath effects, but no idea of whether the weapons provide enough innate bonuses to really make use of them. We talk about PDL often in the prospect of "attack capped situations", but generally speaking, if we *are* reaching attack-cap scenarios, the content is something we didn't really need the new weapons for anyway, and I think the gear we have without the weapons is already pushing on the boundaries of what PDL we can reasonably use for any content that it could potentially matter on.
And in cases where we are able to use the PDL, I feel like certain jobs are already capable of hitting 99k (or close to) as a result. What are we going to do? Hit 99k, harder? That's hardly a selling point unless it allows us to raise our numbers across the board on things that are "harder", or somehow the damage cap is raised past the 99,999 barrier.
The only other potential scenario I could see this being worthwhile is that having a weapon at a given stage gives an increased rate of galli gain, or debuffs sortie NMs somehow. I don't know, give it a gimmick that allows alternate compositions to work their way through more of the bosses in that content. Maybe it handles the -DT mechanic on Leshonn/Gartell; maybe it weakens Degei/Aita. We know there's something that "alters behavior" according to the patch notes, but we have no idea what that means, if it means anything besides "allows them to drop [x]-drite".
Anyway I'm rambling.
edit: I know Fujito mentioned that he wanted to "make content" where you can put these weapons to use in the form of master trials or whatever, but generally speaking if the weapons we've used to this day already perform more than well enough for even the hardest content, then why should we bother? For the novelty? That can only take you so far.
All we have to go off is the stats on paper and aftermath effects, but no idea of whether the weapons provide enough innate bonuses to really make use of them. We talk about PDL often in the prospect of "attack capped situations", but generally speaking, if we *are* reaching attack-cap scenarios, the content is something we didn't really need the new weapons for anyway, and I think the gear we have without the weapons is already pushing on the boundaries of what PDL we can reasonably use for any content that it could potentially matter on.
And in cases where we are able to use the PDL, I feel like certain jobs are already capable of hitting 99k (or close to) as a result. What are we going to do? Hit 99k, harder? That's hardly a selling point unless it allows us to raise our numbers across the board on things that are "harder", or somehow the damage cap is raised past the 99,999 barrier.
The only other potential scenario I could see this being worthwhile is that having a weapon at a given stage gives an increased rate of galli gain, or debuffs sortie NMs somehow. I don't know, give it a gimmick that allows alternate compositions to work their way through more of the bosses in that content. Maybe it handles the -DT mechanic on Leshonn/Gartell; maybe it weakens Degei/Aita. We know there's something that "alters behavior" according to the patch notes, but we have no idea what that means, if it means anything besides "allows them to drop [x]-drite".
Anyway I'm rambling.
edit: I know Fujito mentioned that he wanted to "make content" where you can put these weapons to use in the form of master trials or whatever, but generally speaking if the weapons we've used to this day already perform more than well enough for even the hardest content, then why should we bother? For the novelty? That can only take you so far.
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Asura.Iamaman said: »
I would have much rather seen a defensive version of Honor March on it, something that increases meva, def, hp, adds regen, etc. Their emphasis on PDL is a bit baffling.
Yeah. A PDL song is the opposite of enticing, unless all these weapons really do have some insane innate attack boost to make reaching attack cap more feasible and reliable in harder content. Would've much rather seen your suggestion, or a mage-oriented Honor March, or even a Massacre Elegy instrument with good offensive stats so we could put Linos to rest. If they wanted to get really generous, they could've added an STP or TA or SBII or MBII song.
I continue to think the prime horn is a big trap.
Doesn't consolidate inventory space because Gjallarhorn is still best for debuffing and you need a harp for Horde Lullaby.
Doesn't save significant time singing in most scenarios, because competent BRDs already just sing 3 real songs -> 2 dummies -> 2 real songs; all this cuts out is those two dummies. Sure, it'll save more time on fights with full dispels or something, but those are few and far between.
Song is of dubious usefulness for content that isn't already a stomp.
Robs BRDs of TP-maintaining sleep immunity.
the only Prime I feel confident in saying is a solid choice even before seeing it in action has to be the Staff (for BLM and SCH at least- I know jack about SMN)....simply because the raw stats we can see already top any existing staff in the game at Stage 4, let alone finished. Sure, Laev can still top the MAB with AM2 up, but that's with zero INT, and not knowing exactly how potent the Prime's aftermath of "MAB+/magic damage+" will be in action.
In terms of a large initial investment without much return (the stage 3)- the other tiered RMEAs (Relics and Empyreans) also have hefty 1st steps without really anything to show for it except progress. I don't mind SE putting in a system that really makes us choose rather than "choose what first" b/c they're spammable like Aeonics or Relics, even. The big questions to me still remain what others seem to feel as well- what's the total investment going to look like (all stages), will they all be muffin mania while we /toss -hedrites left and right, and will they honestly be that big of an improvement over existing options.
In terms of a large initial investment without much return (the stage 3)- the other tiered RMEAs (Relics and Empyreans) also have hefty 1st steps without really anything to show for it except progress. I don't mind SE putting in a system that really makes us choose rather than "choose what first" b/c they're spammable like Aeonics or Relics, even. The big questions to me still remain what others seem to feel as well- what's the total investment going to look like (all stages), will they all be muffin mania while we /toss -hedrites left and right, and will they honestly be that big of an improvement over existing options.
Ragnarok.Vargasfinio said: »
I'm just baffled that this is how they have implemented it. The progression could have easily been gated by the Psyches or -hedrites and then at least you wouldn't feel "bad" for upgrading your gear and eating into your future Prime weapon(s)...
The galli was always meant to be the bottleneck in this event, hence the cap. If they reduced galli and increased -drite requirements it would put a dent in their 'accessible to solo players' comments. Groups are already at an advantage with galli generation.
I think if you decide to focus a weapon, you'd upgrade all the +2 armor you would use before moving on to the priority +3 pieces, then you focus your weapon. The +3 are mostly side-grade and definitely the lowest impact for the galli spent in most cases.
Quote:
I continue to think the prime horn is a big trap.
All prime weapons are a big trap, and have been will be for years.
I'd be interested if anyone can shed a light on the jp forums if they are flipping out etc.
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
the only Prime I feel confident in saying is a solid choice even before seeing it in action has to be the Staff (for BLM and SCH at least- I know jack about SMN)....simply because the raw stats we can see already top any existing staff in the game at Stage 4, let alone finished.
Shield is still insanely good
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Seun said: »
If they reduced galli and increased -drite requirements it would put a dent in their 'accessible to solo players' comments. Groups are already at an advantage with galli generation.
How so? It'd make things more accessible, to my eye.
The -drite stones can drop from chests or bosses, on either floor. Gallimaufry's primary source is basement bosses, none of which are remotely feasible for most players to solo. Meanwhile most chest objectives are soloable, some trivially so.
Gallimaufry being the primary currency sink puts more distance between casual and hardcore players, not less. If -drite stones were the primary sink instead, with the many chances to get them from chests and bosses alike, that gap would be eased.
This isn't even to mention that gallimaufry being the primary sink ensures many casual or returning players will be completely incapable of working towards a Prime at all, since many aren't done upgrading empyrean armor they want.
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Also, personally I assume the Stage4 and Stage5 will follow the same model as Stage 3, this is the scenario I envision:
Stage 4 Prime Materials:
2.000.000 Gallimaufry
3 Hexahedrite
10 Voracious Psyche
Stage 5 Prime Materials:
3.000.000 Gallimaufry
4 Mesosiderite
15 Voracious Psyche
Stage 4 Prime Materials:
2.000.000 Gallimaufry
3 Hexahedrite
10 Voracious Psyche
Stage 5 Prime Materials:
3.000.000 Gallimaufry
4 Mesosiderite
15 Voracious Psyche
You're gonna feel so foolish when you realize SE put it in backwards and it's actually going to end up being:
Stage 4 Prime Materials:
500.000 Gallimaufry
3 Hexahedrite
10 Voracious Psyche
Stage 5 Prime Materials:
250.000 Gallimaufry
4 Mesosiderite
15 Voracious Psyche
Hopalong said: »
Quote:
I continue to think the prime horn is a big trap.
All prime weapons are a big trap, and have been will be for years.
I'd be interested if anyone can shed a light on the jp forums if they are flipping out etc.
Honestly, they've largely given up on the official forums too, other than bugs.
Gonna be even better when Stage 5 requires the original weapon to be AG R15'd as an ingredient, kinda like pulse weapons for Ambu.
Asura.Disclai said: »
Seun said: »
If they reduced galli and increased -drite requirements it would put a dent in their 'accessible to solo players' comments. Groups are already at an advantage with galli generation.
How so? It'd make things more accessible, to my eye.
Groups have better access to both points and rocks. It's less of an advantage when only one of those currencies is meaningful. I'd rather 1M galli on my currency page than 1K stones in my inventory, so it makes sense to be the points IMO.
I keep seeing the argument of having to delay prime acquisition to upgrade armor. Armor has immediate impact and should be prioritized whether you're new, returning or have been playing since day one. I think delaying prime is the correct choice here.
Foxfire said: »
Personally I think the largest unanswered prospect is whether or not these weapons are worth the effort that's expected from this grind.
All we have to go off is the stats on paper and aftermath effects, but no idea of whether the weapons provide enough innate bonuses to really make use of them. We talk about PDL often in the prospect of "attack capped situations", but generally speaking, if we *are* reaching attack-cap scenarios, the content is something we didn't really need the new weapons for anyway, and I think the gear we have without the weapons is already pushing on the boundaries of what PDL we can reasonably use for any content that it could potentially matter on.
And in cases where we are able to use the PDL, I feel like certain jobs are already capable of hitting 99k (or close to) as a result. What are we going to do? Hit 99k, harder? That's hardly a selling point unless it allows us to raise our numbers across the board on things that are "harder", or somehow the damage cap is raised past the 99,999 barrier.
The only other potential scenario I could see this being worthwhile is that having a weapon at a given stage gives an increased rate of galli gain, or debuffs sortie NMs somehow. I don't know, give it a gimmick that allows alternate compositions to work their way through more of the bosses in that content. Maybe it handles the -DT mechanic on Leshonn/Gartell; maybe it weakens Degei/Aita. We know there's something that "alters behavior" according to the patch notes, but we have no idea what that means, if it means anything besides "allows them to drop [x]-drite".
Anyway I'm rambling.
edit: I know Fujito mentioned that he wanted to "make content" where you can put these weapons to use in the form of master trials or whatever, but generally speaking if the weapons we've used to this day already perform more than well enough for even the hardest content, then why should we bother? For the novelty? That can only take you so far.
All we have to go off is the stats on paper and aftermath effects, but no idea of whether the weapons provide enough innate bonuses to really make use of them. We talk about PDL often in the prospect of "attack capped situations", but generally speaking, if we *are* reaching attack-cap scenarios, the content is something we didn't really need the new weapons for anyway, and I think the gear we have without the weapons is already pushing on the boundaries of what PDL we can reasonably use for any content that it could potentially matter on.
And in cases where we are able to use the PDL, I feel like certain jobs are already capable of hitting 99k (or close to) as a result. What are we going to do? Hit 99k, harder? That's hardly a selling point unless it allows us to raise our numbers across the board on things that are "harder", or somehow the damage cap is raised past the 99,999 barrier.
The only other potential scenario I could see this being worthwhile is that having a weapon at a given stage gives an increased rate of galli gain, or debuffs sortie NMs somehow. I don't know, give it a gimmick that allows alternate compositions to work their way through more of the bosses in that content. Maybe it handles the -DT mechanic on Leshonn/Gartell; maybe it weakens Degei/Aita. We know there's something that "alters behavior" according to the patch notes, but we have no idea what that means, if it means anything besides "allows them to drop [x]-drite".
Anyway I'm rambling.
edit: I know Fujito mentioned that he wanted to "make content" where you can put these weapons to use in the form of master trials or whatever, but generally speaking if the weapons we've used to this day already perform more than well enough for even the hardest content, then why should we bother? For the novelty? That can only take you so far.
Odyssey is full of mobs that don't take damage because of SDB. Make mobs that have 50% SDB or even just DT accross the board and PDL + Capping attack is the only way to make up damage. Or magic bursting well past cap.
It's the opposite approach to increasing the damage cap but it accomplishes similar results.
Seun said: »
Asura.Disclai said: »
Seun said: »
If they reduced galli and increased -drite requirements it would put a dent in their 'accessible to solo players' comments. Groups are already at an advantage with galli generation.
How so? It'd make things more accessible, to my eye.
Groups have better access to both points and rocks. It's less of an advantage when only one of those currencies is meaningful. I'd rather 1M galli on my currency page than 1K stones in my inventory, so it makes sense to be the points IMO.
I keep seeing the argument of having to delay prime acquisition to upgrade armor. Armor has immediate impact and should be prioritized whether you're new, returning or have been playing since day one. I think delaying prime is the correct choice here.
Its 400k Galli to upgrade a set up Emp+3. Thats 10-12 days worth of progress.
The best point made in this thread was with Primes (as they currently exist) its not which one to make first for my 22 jobs but which one to make at all. 6 months of daily Sortie is quite the boring grind. Doing it multiple times for multiple years for a game that promotes job diversity just sounds awful at face value.
The other weapons (REMA) have their grindy parts but also parts you could speed up with gil and you can make gil a thousand different ways, as you prefer.
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