Official BLM Epeen Vs SCH Epeen Thread!! Keep These Fights Clean!

Your right because just like the spirit lantern, it doesn't matter how you were beaten on your 1991... you were beaten by 1 point of damage.

The ball is in your court sir.

I actually do hope you go out and break it with all those party members, so we can in turn do the same and beat you again. Hell even if we came close and didn't win it wouldn't even matter...

and that's the best part of this entire argument. SCH can hang with the BLM's whether you like it or not....

I like how after its been suggested that this thread get back on track people still insist on turning it into a war of which is better.

This thread was intended to show nuke damage between BLMs and SCHs and now people are comparing jobs blah blah blah.

I'm not saying everyone else but me is doing this, because I was guilty of it and I am openly admitting to it. Lets get this thread back on track please.



GO

You're honestly thinking that a thread with that title wouldnt turn in to a flame war.

Very naive.

You might not have taken hate from a cure here and there but Cure V is still crazy for low hate which becomes more and more important during long fights. Not that I prefer whm but that one spells really does insane things for them. 400CE 700VE even if you cure for 1.5k. While other cures 40/55CE and 240 / 55 per hp cured or to put that in perspective even with capped -50 emnity and the whm had 0 emnity you'd get the same CE with 1100hp and to get the same amount of VE only 320.83333 hp. Now sure you can use the merited ja to get your -emnity halved again but it still you get the point.

For nyzul at least I'd say I prefer whm over sch. Haste is always good to have and Repose is very useful in there. The only advantage I can see sch having is being able to nuke slimes/flans.

Let's keep this "I think..." stuff to a minimum. To be completely honest, most people who haven't played SCH themselves don't know a damn thing about it. This talk that a BLM's individual nuke will out-perform a SCH's individual nuke is simply not true. I say this being both a well equipped, fully merited BLM as well as a well equipped, fully merited SCH. At this stage, I basically only have BLM to look pretty, and to stun, and for the very very rare situation where AoE nukes are actually necessary.

Let's consider a few things:

1. MP use over time
SCH obviously beats BLM hands down here. There's really nothing to discuss. SCH has Parsimony and Sublimation (+2) at their disposal; BLM does not. In fact, SCH is the most MP efficient job there is. You might argue that BLM/SCH has these things. Well for starters, I very, VERY strongly disapprove of BLM/SCH in almost every imaginable situation since they have absolutley no survivability. But aside from that, BLM's sublimation is only half as strong as a SCH using relic body and AF hat, and they only get a charge every 2 minutes instead of 4, and furthermore they can't even rest while sublimation is charging.

2. Damage per nuke
Anyone who claims that a BLM's individual nuke will outdo a SCH's individual nuke has obviously never seen a GOOD SCH at work before. Personally, my SCH's T4 WITHOUT Ebullience is roughly equivalent to my own BLM's T4 (keep in mind that my BLM is pretty well perfectly equipped). With Ebullience, it's roughly equal to AM2, and sometimes even better under the right circumstances (and costs half the MP and has way less recast!) so even if you put AM2 into the picture, a good SCH can STILL outdo a BLM's individual nukes.

3. Resist rate
It is true that a BLM's nuking accuracy is, in general, better than a SCH's; however, this isn't something that can't be easily made up for. For trash mobs, the difference in nuking accuracy makes absolutely no difference. If you're fighting an HNM, a SCH is still capable of breaking the 120/320 rule AND has Klimaform at their disposal, which, while has a long recast, can be kept up pretty much full time if combined with Alacrity.

4. DoTs!!!
These are really underestimated!! Helix is a truly amazing technique. A SCH keeping a helix up on an NM that's being kited will be doing more damage throughout the fight JUST in DoTs than your average BLM who is nuke spamming. Yes, the helix will take a full minute to do as much or more damage than a BLM's nuke, but requires virtually no MP in comparison and a SCH just DoTing will NEVER have to rest. In fact, they can still nuke quite frequently in conjunction with these DoTs while STILL never having to rest.

5. Other perks
SCH casts A LOT faster, has access to a much wider variety of useful spells (all -na spells including Stona, Raise II, Reraise II, Cure IV, Storms, Klimaform, Protect IV, Shell IV, Helix, Erase AND Dispel simultaneously), has much higher enfeebling magic skill than BLM, AOE buffs, AOE enfeebles, and the sheer versatility of being able to switch between roles freely. There are probably a few other things I failed to mention also.

Don't get me wrong, I love my BLM too and still think it's a great job, but in my experience, a GOOD SCH outshines it in almost every conceivable way. The catch is that the SCH has to be very well equipped and be able to play worth a *** (because let's face it, most SCHs out there are really terrible at playing the job. It is a rather complicated one).

I never said I didn't expect it to turn into a flame war, I'm just kindly requesting that it gets back on track. This has turned everyone into a group of butthurt BLMs and SCHs, as expected from the start. The thread itself was a good idea, merely asking for screenshots to show your damage, and it started off nicely, then people got butthurt.

Sorry for trying to put the train back on the tracks, next time I'll just sit down with some popcorn and watch the passengers burn.

Well this would be more of a preference or setup based thing. I was the only mage in my nyzul group and no tank at all. So i was typically very busy and had time to only haste a few times anyways.

Your right though the ability to switch to dark and help with flan/puddings is epic.

Your gunna have to explain how without ebbulience you are making up for blms extra 18-22MAB from job trait/merits alone. Not to mention the better MAB/int selection on gear.

I prefer rdm/schs in nyzul all you really lose is erase and AOE curing... well and the ability to like light sleep mobs.

Here and there? I'm main curing 100% of the tim on SCH. When are you ever in a fight where you have to SPAM cures anyway? Arent you the one that says 'get better tanks'?
Not to mention the whms that seem to ONLY have Cure V macro'd are annoying as hell XD (if you know what I mean).

I also run with a brd in nyzul so light based sleeps arent a problem. But yes haste is always good.

Possibly Stormsurge+Hailstorm for 7 INT. But I'd like a further explanation as well in case I'm missing something. It's fair to say since i only hit 75SCH 2 days ago after much planning and farming/selling up until this point.

YEAH let us QQ in peace!

Light sleep can be pretty useful depending on your setups since you run into a lotta flayers/hectaeyes, etc... And erase is nice to have for stuff like chariots at least. But in the end it probably ends up just depending on what the rest of the party setup is and what jobs you have available, lol.

K :D

This is very true and losing a light based sleep would be a deff. negative point... but what you can also gain from SCH/RDM is the ability to gravity and kite things or even bind things. A well geared SCH should almost never get resisted on things during the climb process especially. This is of course if Sleep itself (dark based) doesn't land.

Yes I generally say get better tanks. I'm specifically talking about the long fights where you are gonna get to capped CE which really you can do with only curing a total of like I think it was 13k hp. Which would 60 Cure3s... say you only use 2 a min thats still capped CE in 30 min. Not fun to be capped CE and start pulling those big VE moves you use. You will steal hate from a tank cause well he is constantly losing CE and can't produce those numbers of VE that a curaga can produce without doing something crazy like sentinel invincible.

Yes sch is generally much much better healer/buffer etc. Even with the whm update

Oh light based sleep can be pretty useful. I've also actually needed it. The non family/NM flayers are pretty easy to kill. Erase does hurt sometimes so does not having as many DDs. Almost always had at least 1 sam/dnc though. And later we changed me from rdm/sch to blu and one of the sams to rdm/whm mostly cause he didn't have /sch. Lol so enjoyed stealing icespikes from flayers

Best idea is to bring a BRD and a SCH to Nyzul Isle. You'll get your haste and you'll get your light based sleep and dispel, and you get Stona and Erase, AoE buffs etc.

There's no haste in there, only march.

Stona really shouldn't be an issue lol. And anyone dnc or /dnc will get erase. Your blus will get light based sleep not that you really need it since any rdm worth his salt should be able to restrict a mobs movement. Blu can light and wind dispel too. Thf can non elemental steal buffs.

I actually don't like rdm/sch for nyzul that much. Unless you're nuking a lot, you don't generally need THAT much mp efficiency in there so it feels more inconvenient to lose erase/curaga.

Wow thanks I had no idea Bard uses March and not Haste >.> I think my post was clear enough. DNC is useless in Nyzul Isle. /DNC is inferior to /NIN in Nyzul Isle.

is if you get a khim. I also like erase-ga if theres a flayer floor hate that bio.

Not when you have soboro sams. Hell pratically don't need a healer for most of the run with 2 soboro sam/dncs. Mnk/dnc probably the sam. And if you ask what about HNMs its simple switch to hagun pwn and use fanatic. 4DDs is inferior to 5DDs

It's not really clear enough considering that the high travel environment of nyzul favors haste over march, especially if the brd is pulling. Another benefit is haste will keep you from getting slowed, march won't. So equating the two of them is silly at best.

Khims kinda a pansy though. Really if he lives long enough to petri 2 people I hope its cause your trying to 4 man him

Well when you go with people that dont know not to stand in front of him, it becomes a problem.

yeah, I doubt you have all your facts straight. /DNC is alot more useful than /NIN simply because Spectral Jig casts a lot faster than NIN spells. I always go into Nyzle Isle as MNK/DNC and I've always survived.