Official BLM Epeen Vs SCH Epeen Thread!! Keep These Fights Clean!

Dasva, the item sets have a glitch with CoP rings. It uses the lowest value on the stats which would be 2 in this case, adding +3 to 35int brings us up to the 38 he states.

Ah didn't know that only knew about it's lameness with latents and such. It's still a rediculous over done one skill/macc set though lol

So any word on 330/130 being the new 320/120 set for blm?

Seems a bit excessive I get pretty good resist rates on most stuff down to like 304...

320/120 was a very limited concept to begin with; it was only intended as a rule of thumb for a handful of HNM. Specifically, lesser gods and CoP Wyrms. 330/130 would be more limited still.

Well yeah 320/120 Basically assumed the mob had less then 110 int... almost always true in fact usuauly a bit lower and that you would need that much macc often not needed at all

Jormungandr actually has 120 INT, yet he's included by name when people bother to bring up the actual list. Just an example, other HNM on that list may also have 120+ INT. The concept was developed before we had a full understanding of dINT, though there is a certain intuition towards dINT in it.

Nuke set

Although that screenshot was taken using AF hat, not demon helm+1, the exact details are show in the screen shot (solo, ice day, neutral weather)

The burn was only 120INT (I don't have a working 150INT set yet)

I will add some Gods/HNM shots later (1300 Tornado II on Kirin)

1st time breaking 10k

After reading the past 2 pages that were posted while I was asleep/in class, I have seen a couple of interesting points to bring up.

For the SCHs who *** about Spirit Lantern: If you want numbers without Spirit Lantern, then give us numbers without that 20% potency stratagem. They are basically the same thing (somewhat) since, guess what, they both use the abilities given for that same job.

And if you are going to use numbers based on SCH/BLM, then why can't you argue that us BLMs use the same numbers based on BLM/SCH? Although not many people argued with MP effiency yet, when it does happen, you can't say that because it was already brought up on page 1 and nobody commented on it.

Comparing SCH and BLM on puddings is ok, because it gives everyone something to compare with. If you want to compare it to some HNMs, that would be hard since 2 things: Nobody brings a SCH to a HNM, and if they somehow did bring a SCH to a HNM, the SCH is a sub WHM and only there to Stoneskinga the party. And to help cure. Not to nuke.

Comparing gear, you would HAVE to have the best possible nuking gear for SCH to come anywhere near a BLM without their best possible nuking gear. Meaning, when you want to compare a SCH with Novio vs a BLM with Novio, you will know that the BLM wins, unless that BLM is a failmage brought up by somebody's screenshot on page one. We would have to assume (based on evidence brought to us so far) that the only people to compare damage to would be the following:

SCH: Clinpachi, Enternius
BLM: Dasva, Korpg, Argettio, Draker

You can't be considered in the compare group unless you bring a SS showing your damage to compare with.

It'll be Iceday in about 3 hours. If I'm not in a merit party I'll run my numbers again with screenshots.

k, I'll be in class though.

And I'm pretty sure that 2.5k Freeze II back on page 1 screenshots is the best I can do atm.

need better gear still, like sea torque, novio, and full morri.

oh yeah, spirit lantern, I NEED to get that.

lol i need to do salvage now <3

What is your nuke set?

I am assuming that you used burn (150INT) and you have 3 more INT merits than me. After that I am not sure where you are getting the extra 200 damage.

You history doesn't show a novio, so I am guessing either a magic crit or some pretty nice augments (or something else I am missing).

Well this is a dmg thread, a BLM/SCH wouldn't do much. It was said in the OP that you can use anything to boost your dmg yet you're saying sch cant sub blm to boost dmg?

If you dont bring a SCH to an HNM for a least a tank party, you're doing it wrong. SCH never subs whm either, /rdm for phalanxga. Honestly you can't argue that one job is better than the other if you don't know about the other job.

However I do prefer BLM for nuking and kiting situations. Easier to kite somthing without having to hit a charge every minute.

After reading that post for a time I can say (as scholar 66) that we manage more efficiently our MP pool,BUT I gotta consider that even we haven't any AM/AM2/TierV we can make nice DMG due to our MACC (that was so logical).
Also I don't care about JA's,food,equipment,etc.
A good nuker has to got a 50% on storeMP/INT equipment,and that isn't the only thing (I hope) all we know?
Let's get a fast cast conclusion:

Scholar:Best storeMP nuker,and in some conditions even better than a BLM
Black Mage:A pure nuker,but seriously and even with store MP equipment
needs a refresher at his side.

-I said that just as a WHM75 (almost full merited)
-Also with the experience of watching so many ppl in 2 years of events
-With the pride to make a "lol" Holy>>> 1087 DMG to Ebony pudding at nyzul isle.
-Seeing how my Light nukes make "lol" to many ppl that still thing we were so useless at this departement.
-Also Aspiring as many MP as a skilled BLM even I'm WHM/SCH.

Hope I didn't make it too long.
Thanks and keep on guys ;D

So its pretty obvious that a properly geared BLM will always nuke harder than a properly geared SCH. No exceptions.

Here's a question though. On a full MP pool: Who will nuke most total damage? Not who has the strongest nuke, but total damage output for their entire MP pool solo. No refresh drinks, no help from other people. All JAs allowed, refresh 1/tick from armor is allowed. No waiting 287 ticks for another Freeze II >.>

I think that was with ice day(obi) ugly pendant (I was comparing damage between the two at the time) food, relic pants, 5/5 ice potency merits, HQ ice staff, and no fire weather to gimp the damage. I don't have anything to increase magic crit, so that wasn't it. I ate Melon Pie +1. My AMK cap is INT+6 Fast Cast and MAcc. My weskit at the time had +3 INT on it. I think I was BLM/SCH at the time too, because I also shown on a different thread that I had 300+ Elemental and Enfeebling at the same time (Enfeebling set on, but still had Elemental somewhat).

No Novio, no full Morri (2/15 on it so far). No Spirit Lantern either.

Should also factor in how fast they can get their MP Pools back and so on.

I didn't say that a SCH can't sub BLM (since thats the only way they can bring 1600+ Thunder IVs).

About the SCH in a tank party, I did already say that. But, if you don't have a RDM giving Phalanx II on the tank, then you are doing it wrong. Phalanx II > Phalanx, I do beleve that was established already.

I did mention, however, that the SCH would not be there for nuking. BLMs are there only for the spike damage from Magic Burst. If you have a failmage as a BLM, they wouldn't be BLM that much longer for ***like HNMs. Thing about HNMs, you can't afford fail people that much (unless your stratagy means to send as many bodies as possible until the mob dies, like some HNM shells on Asura that I won't mention). If you are going to lowman anything, you can't afford idiots.

my hMP set is at +60 on the first tick.

I'm sure that SCH can get about the same, but still. You have to have the gear to get the best out of it.

And, although I don't know what SCH gets as Clear Mind, but only BLM and SMN gets the highest tier of Clear Mind (meaning that BLM without any gear at all get a 31 hMP first tick). I think SCH gets the next tier below (don't quote me on that) so they are only behind by 3 on the first tick and +1 each tick after that.

Yeah but how many rdms do you know have phalanx II fully merited?

Phalanx II unmerited with 256 Enhancing: 15 Damage Reduction

Phalanx II unmerited with 278 Enhancing: 16 Damage Reduction

Phalanx II lasts 120seconds unmerited.

Phalanx I with the same Enhancing can gain 5~10 MORE damage reduction then Phalanx II and lasts 180seconds.

This said Phalanx II is considerably weaker then Phalanx 1 unmerited. With each merit, however, Phalanx II gains 3 damage reduction and a 30 second duraton increase. This means at fully-merited state Phalanx II will reach up to 22 damage reduction with 278 Enhancing Skill level and a duraton of 180 seconds. This is still worse then Phalanx I at double the cost, but its a great spell.

Well let me begin by saying BLM phail, SCH pwn.
The end.
Joking.
I can nuke just as much as a blm with an int set, or more.
Unless they are using ancient spells.
But they are both good jobs and one or the other will work better in different scenarios.
There is no better job.
Just a better job that fits the scenario at that time.
When it comes to nuking and just plain out DMG spike (I am 75BLM and 75SCH)
SCH can do just as much DMG as BLM with a good INT set not including Ancient spells.
BLM were made to nuke so there will always be alittle bit more dmg when a blm nukes vs a sch nuke.(100~300 more DMG)
This thread is pointless and should be closed because their is no better job.
Their both equally fun and great jobs.
Though i prefer scholar, with more of a use choice (WHM spells and BLM spells) BLM is just as good.
Just depends on the situation kiddos.
So stop arguing, its pretty much pointless.
Kapeesh.

lololol My stick is better then your stick. Ohh yeah, my stick can do things your stick can't do. STFU MY stick can do what yours can't do either.

Conclusion: They both need to take the sticks out their *** and just have fun with the stick they prefer lolol

Pixie sticks!?

Again, people not realizing what it means to be a better mage. I appreciate the effort but you're looking at it wrong.

Even if SCH does not do as much damage with T4s as BLM does with AM2, SCH does the damage faster, using less MP, and with the ability to keep that MP going for much longer with Sublimation.

In endgame situations, if you use Helix alongside nukes, you're doing an additional 200 damage every 10 seconds, which is more than enough, combined, to beat even a perfectly geared BLM spamming AM2 (If recast weren't like a minute).

That being said, BLM is better at per-nuke damage but that's a worthless point because that's like saying RNG > SAM because RNG can do 3k WSs.

Okay, now we have a nuking job that is right alongside BLM, if not better because SCH can also improve every other BLM's damage as well. Right?

(Disclaimer: the following has nothing to do with "epeen" or anything like that, and as such probably doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Read at your own risk as it's just an addendum.)

But not only is SCH a first-rate nuking job, but it's also a top-tier enfeebling job (If you apply the same quality of gear as with the nuking set), to the point where I've solo'd Sky NMs with no trouble as SCH/RDM. It's also a million times faster than RDM/NIN because of Helix taking 4% of Zipacna's HP per tic. On top of that, SCH has access to AoE enfeebles, unlike any other job. Sleepga, Graviga, Bindga, Paralyga, etc. Very good for crowd control, and makes it easy for SCH to solo things like, for instance, Operation: Desert Swarm. And while you're at it, you can also Drainga (for 1800 HP, if you actually needed that much) or Aspirga (for 600 MP, making it more efficient than a 10-minute-recast Convert).

Coupled with being the first-or-second best Nuking AND Enfeebling job, SCH is also the undisputed king of main-healing. Granted, SCH can't get as much Cure Potency as WHM, but they can force light weather for an additional 10%, along with a JA that makes their Cure IVs better than a WHM's Cure Vs. And can make that AoE for a total of 150 MP to cure a full party for 800 HP each. On top of that, SCH has the best ability in the game to assist tanks, etc, through the use of Stoneskin-ga/Phalanx-ga/Aquaveil-ga/whatever the situation calls for. And SCH can do all of the above faster, for less MP, more frequently, and for less enmity than a WHM.

So to reiterate my point that got all the BLMs whining:
Is SCH the best pure nuking job? Probably not.
Is SCH the best mage? Undoubtedly.