Nqftw Posted On The OF

Economy still seems fine with me.

Sure, the value of gil is lower than it has ever been, but the effort to produce products (aka the amount of time it takes to farm an item, or farm for gil to use that gil to convert to an item) stayed about the same.

You are overstating any economic harm these exploits have. More harm has been made towards people who craft legitimately than to the overall economy.

People crafting with the hack have stopped basically everyone from even attempting to craft legit.

Have you not seen a hundred people on this site over the past few years already say "*** crafting"

That's damage.

We've had years of zero-risk HQ, all profit, no competition crafting.

And there's no way they'll pinch every mule; you can bet once this ***got posted the usual suspects started cranking out items as fast as they could and hidey-holed it all away, on top of what they already may have had over the years. Non-hacking crafters are probably still going to be boxed out of these markets after the dust settles.

No. I legit craft and make a decent profit from it.

I don't make my entire day into crafting, but I make enough to sustain my character. And I don't have to rely on buying my gear from mercs like other people do.

And those are the people who would have said "*** crafting" anyway, regardless if the exploit was around or not.

K. And?

A "decent profit" while 100 characters make a billion gil per day

Crafting system sucks regardless of the hack, it's jank

So? What's your point?

The only point is that it's pointless, they don't fix the actual problem.

Just keep slapping band-aids on a decapitation.

And you are calling a papercut a decapitation.

Drama-queen much?

Not gonna argue with you, but what honestly can fix it? Because I don't see a fix that remedies the already-done damage, just a desire to prevent repetition of the harm in the future.

You can't look thru multiple years of logs to find improperly-produced items and then just magically make them disappear from the inventories of the purchasers. You could take those who SOLD such items (and more accurately, PRODUCED such items improperly) and blow up the character- but the buyers when using a system like the auction house that encourages anonymity until after sales have a game-created argument for ignorance.

Add in the RP system, and you can't even make the items in question disappear and replace them with the originally spent gil to purchase said items to essentially erase the history of the items in question...be it more gil spent on Heroisms or time spent in Dyna-D, that part isn't as easily replaced for the player.

So I'm honestly curious, do you see any solution? And if not, do you just let the exploit exist because of already incurred damage? That level of logic has always been flawed in terms of punishing those who break the laws of any society, be it real or digital. We have to have standards, and in order to instill those standards punishments need to exist. The only fix I see is to remove those characters who can be directly tied to the false production of the items in question, thus destroying the items produced as well and hopefully as much resultant gil as can still be tied to such things- paired with a better level of daily enforcement by the game itself so we're never staring at YEARS worth of a problem, but rather days or weeks at worst. The biggest problem I see with all this is how long SE let it exist, not that it exists at all.

packet manipulation is very much not a "paper cut"

We've gone from moogles literally handing out rema, to infinite item glitch, to infinite gil glitch, to infinite craft anything you want glitch.

Not to mention a myriad of other packet influenced problems/hax/glitches

We confiscate counterfeit money, we take back stolen goods, people get screwed over. it happens. But you can't let it go completely uncorrected.

It was illustration. I didn't state that this specific case was considered a paper cut, but it's certainly not "decapitation" by any mean.

People are going to cheat. SE is doing their best to punish the cheaters, but you are demanding that they punish the innocent also.

Why is that? Do you hate the community so much that you demand that some of their stuff be removed from the game even though they did absolutely nothing to cause said hacks/cheats?

I would roll it back. Any other game from any responsible company wouldn't let ***like this happen.

Square takes no action and just lets everything go for years and years. It's their own fault. if they can't be responsible enough to show a modicum of attention, close the game. or just let it happen.

It's not like there won't be a new packet hack tomorrow that we'll find out about in two months. it doesn't even matter if HQ exploit is fixed there will be another infinite gil glitch to craft with anyway.

Solution would be to permaban all of the obvious exploiters, auto-ban for using anything other than the vanilla game going forward, and then release new content and equipment that makes all of the mass-duped stuff obsolete and worthless. Won't happen, though.

Here's SE problem, as far as I see it though.

Their "2nd worst option" is so bad they could easily cause a mass exodus among "legit" players who suddenly log on one day to 2-8 major purchases just gone from their inventory without any restitution. The damage caused to the game community from that action could be worse than the damage we currently live with from this...and figuring out which is worst is part of the need from a workable solution.

You keep mentioning the comparison to counterfeit money, rather than a comparison to counterfeit goods, which I think is a much fairer comparison. If a company ignored trademark and copyright laws to make a 100% accurate fake Coca-Cola and sell it for half the cost of the real stuff, the FDA would shut down the producers of said fake Coke, but wouldn't go to every home that bought it and confiscate it.

But you can resell the counterfeit items.

I could "buy" 10,000 "fake" rostams right now, legit. Then sell them. Should I not be punished for that?

"But you can't punish me, I bought them fairly." This is why I liken it to counterfeit money. If the items were EX it would be different. (they're not EX until augged)

Couldn't give a *** less if people fake REMA, it's not that big of a deal. I care that they sell and resell rema-equivalents. If you hack relic+3 onto your account I couldn't care less. If you hack the items to make relic+3 onto your account, now it's a problem.

They would still make it illegal to resell it though.

Which is the same thing with pirated, bootleg DVDs. While it is considered illegal to knowingly purchase said counterfeit items, you have to prove that the buyer knowingly purchase said counterfeit knowing that they were counterfeit. But the seller is the one that the police/FBI goes after. Not the buyers.

No. You didn't create the items. And you had to have the gil to purchase such items.

In this case, you are just a wholesaler, not a manufacturer. Huge difference.

Now, if you stole those 10,000 Rostams, that's another thing.

When they banned the guy who made them, and sold them too me, logically, they would take my 10,000 too. Even if I "bought them"

yeah I bought them for 1g, so, that's a purchase, I didn't know they were fake, it was just a really good deal.

Yes banning 90% of the players is the way to go. Great Idea.

And there's the HUGE problem I have in finding a legit working solution. Because you're right...if you have the capital you can be setting yourself up for some major long-term benefits in just the way you mention. But is there a way to prevent that action without punishing "the innocent"?

If we were talking about a game that had 15-20 years of life still ahead of it, not behind it, changing how crafting works code wise and then making all Su5 items obsolete with new weaponry,etc would be the best solution. It could be implemented the most naturally- face it, give us players new shinies and we want them no matter the reason they exist, as long as they DPS just that hair higher than the old thing.

The only "fix" (and boy I use that word loosely) that I see possible with a game this old is to shut down servers immediately without warning, implement the code changes required going forward, punish those who can be directly connected to the production of such items, and remove any non-RP'ed item in existence. Completely unfair, will have major backlash that will result in "innocent" players leaving the game, but I don't see any other option. The entire supply chain is tainted- the production of the shields, the production of the actual sellable items, the gil used to purchase said items.

In this case, you were a conspirator. You knowingly knew that these items were made illegally, and you were just a middleman used to distribute the items through legal means.

It's also called money laundering. Or in this case, item laundering.

Nobody in their right mind would sell an item that cost 14,500,000 gil to make for 1 gil. And nobody would purchase said items without knowing of the scheme. So, therefor, you are a conspirator.

Just fix it and pretend it never happened.

Naw man, it was just a really good deal. We had no conversation in game the bazaar was just open. he was quitting.

But see, even at 14.5m that's not what the item is worth, because the hack. Without that hack they'd still be 300m.

And nerf shield reqs, increase HQ rate and dyna div rewards

SE banned accounts that were initially used to store items and SE banned accounts that gave crafter characters items/gil/materials and they banned associated accounts. no idea what eiryl is on about, he's talking out his ***. not sure why you guys engage.

are there tons of illegitimate crafted items? yes, saying they are only banning the crafters though is wrong.

they still have not yet banned for the second method listed though so have at it while you can

This is my pointless point. it's pointless. Everything is corrupted already. Stop this hack, there are 50 more waiting to be reported.

Fix the packets. Roll the ***back. If the game dies as a result, tough ***, don't let exploits run rampant for 20 years,

Seriously, it's like you are trying to justify knowingly doing illegal ***.

"Sorry judge, I wasn't trying to rob the bank, I was there just giving my guys a ride to the bank and back! I wasn't paying any attention to them when they got out their guns and started shooting up the place, nor paid any attention to the fact that they all had face masks prior to entering the bank up until they left. Nor did I pay any attention to the fact that they told me to speed through those police barricades or to ignore any of the police cruisers behind me. I'm innocent, I didn't rob that bank! I swear!"

The judge would laugh you right back into your jailcell.

See you went back to money, we're talking about items.

Pawnshop had this killer deal on rostams. Not gil. Prove they were bought with ill intent. You can't.

Cost, not worth.

If you can HQ2 everything, and not lose mats on breaks, it only costs 14,500,000 to make it, barring the cost of the light crystal. That is at today's AH prices for all the items for a Rostam.

You can still sell it for 300m if anyone wants to buy it. It's called "supply and demand"

Something I highly doubt you know, going by your posts we engaged in previously in the covid thread.