Lilith HTBF

Thats rock solid Izanami, lots of great details, I really appreciate it!

Using Iroha for the 4 step is pretty clever, I hadn't thought of that.

The term "solo multi box" is fine, IMO. At least reader knows it has other characters involved.

If they said "solo" then it's not fine, it's misleading. Strategy used for solo and multibox is very very different. If I'm looking for a solo strategy and found a multibox video it's 100% waste of my time.


Using trusts count as solo, for the sake of clarification you can use "solo with trusts" and "solo without trusts" to address difference.

It's important to make things clear because readers looking for the strategy would like to find relevant information. If I'm trying to farm lilith E with 5 trusts because I don't want to team up, I'd just type "Lilith solo" on YouTube and find strategy for it. How else can I find information if nobody label their strategy as "solo"?

Just FYI, JPs also use "solo with trusts" for 1 PC 5NPC strategy in their videos. So I'm not sure whys the term worth debating.

Saying that trusts don't count for solo is the same as saying BSTs can't charm or summon jug pets for solo, DRGs can't have wyverns out for solo, SMNs can't use summons for solo, and PUPs can use automatons for solo.

I'm ok with saying trusts is a solo because everyone has access to trusts. I agree with Afania in that where I find the line to be what I can do on my own within reason. No multi-box, no outside buffs.

Honestly solo without trusts to me at this point is just for the sake of being impressive. Trusts are a common use tool and the expectation if anyone is doing something alone is to use trusts. I don't mind if a video says solo and uses trusts and don't mind if someone wants to clarify solo with trusts, just seems unnecessary.

Once again, why not just be like "Or we can use more than one word"

Solo = Only one human was in control of things

Duo = Two humans were involved

Trio = Etc

-With Trusts = Trusts were used

-Multibox = Multiple characters were used

"True" = No trusts, only 1 character was involved.

Seems pretty simple to me. Seems derivative to try and constrain "solo" all the way down to a single extremely narrow and specific case.

Just call that "True Solo", vs "Multibox-solo" or "Solo with trusts"

Did you even read? Or is reading not your strong suit? They have that ability to get those, because of their job. You get cured as a war/sam, you get cor rolls, you get geo buffs, you get bard songs, anything from these trusts that you couldnt get by yourself, is not solo. SMN BST DRG have that ability in their actual job.

I assure you I can read, but apparently logic isn't your strong suit.

Trusts are a part of every job because every job can get them. Your trusts are part of your character just like pets, not something separate.

I mean language has meaning and use, and we acknowledge there is a very different scale of difficulty between 1 PC + 5 trusts vs 1 PC without trusts.

It follows the community wants to have a way to linguistically distinguish the two cases as distinct.

So if you want to call 1 PC + 5 Trusts "Solo", then what term would you use to describe "1 PC, no trusts" to refer to it distinctly?

And inversely.

If you want to refer to "1 PC, no trusts" as "Solo", then its on you to provide a term you'd use for "1 PC + Trusts"

If you cant provide a term for "The other case", then you arent contributing to the discussion in good faith.

Are things drastically different with trusts? Of course. But it doesn't change that everyone has access to them. And it takes less than 5 seconds in a video to realize someone is using them. If someone said they soloed something in 2020, the majority of FFXI players would assume trusts were used.

The real question is why is it so important in 2020 to know if someone soloed anything without trusts on a forum? Because if it was about displaying skill, they'd likely have made a video about it. And if it is important to the individual if they used trusts or not, is it that hard to just ask someone?

I think I'm more bewildered that we're acting like trusts are some special case scenario and getting stuck on vernacular. Some people say solo, some specify solo w/trusts or not trusts.

Family, this thread is about Lilith HTBF. Why the hell is this discussion about solo semantics still going on?

For the idiots who don't watch Eijin Caitsith vids that's a dude playing one character with 5 bots on scripts.. jesus your fkn stupid talk about lillith and accept that some people don't need skill they need bots .. see Ejinn , Inna , that stupid fkn thf who used to be on shiva but sold out using a whm bot, dudes if you play solo and you run script/bots for alts , YOU ... fkn .. SUCK

Yer dumb.

Real talk what's more impressive, walk nuke walk nuke walk nuke shadows walk nuke.

or, walk nuke, switch screens nuke, switch back nuke, walk back nuke, switch screens nuke.

Keeping TWO rdms alive at the same time is doubly impressive. Simple logic. (back then, with no automation, context matters)

Ejin using bots? By bots you mean his macros that he spent tons of hours to crate for every single occasion based on his experience with content? He doesnt even use bot for WHM. If I use one macro on my BRD to put up all 4 songs that means I'm botting now?

90% of multi-boxers use some kind of automation. There really isn't much of a difference between "bot" and "automation" as they are both accomplishing the same thing. It is mostly about convenience, not the fact that they "need" to use that stuff. When you play so many characters it makes you lazy and rely more on automation to have fun. The vast majority of them aren't swapping screens constantly but they are using addons/scripts to do stuff automatically.

Honestly not sure why people still care in this age of XI where literally every other person is running with a train of mules behind them.

I care, because its big difference to use scripts fired off manually by /send addon and having things automated with react or bot. Using macros with /send is basically the same as playing normally on that character, the only difference is that you dont need to alt+tab, to click macro button for that char.

AFAIK this is how Ejin plays. He wrote tons of macros/scripts for all of his chars for tons of situations and he fires them of with button or text command. He doesnt use curebot. He doesnt use bots for any of his char. The only gray area thing that he is using that Im aware of is Ja0wait.

He very clearly used React in his Zerde 6-box SAM video.

I really don't see a difference, or why you even care to clarify? To me its the same ***because even though he pushes a button, the characters are all automated in casting and execution of buffs/abilities. All by the use of 3rd party addons or programs. I don't think anyone can call that some kind of angel, so really its all cheating. Also, unless you are him, I don't know a single person who multi-boxes that doesn't use some kind of gray area addon/program.

Is this thread just a debate on where the line is drawn for cheating? Or is it about Lilth lol. I didn't even read the past page, I just felt to mention that nobody that multi-boxes is some kind of saint and vanilla. I also got harassed once for a video when I had mistakenly left Ja0 on, people just randomly use that "ur cheating, bad player" crap to troll people when nobody is innocent anymore here.

For what it's worth the way ejin plays fits that style.

Cor buffs and afks, brd buffs and afks, geo buffs and afks (bubbles at start) Sam autoattacks and whm heals. (most of the time, he's just 2boxing)

It's how I played, when I played. Without even using send, just switching whm/melee screens. (controller play vs kb play, would've been better ejins way, but im lazy reclining with a controller)

(he also uses react, anchor etc)

They're only set to afk in certain fights, otherwise autows and contribute

Well by that logic, it would be even more impressive if he manually fought NMs with 4 PS2s, changing controllers by dropping them on the carpet and grabbing the other...all while doing his taxes, juggling 5 bowling pins and learning Spanish using Rosetta Stone...simultaneously. Where does this moronic justification end? "Soloing" is one dude, controlling one character at a time, no trusts, no multis. End of story. We're not defining pi. Can't even believe this is a conversation actually happening.

Conversation is happening, because people clearly cant see that the term used was "solo-multiboxing" which means one person controlling several characters. None wrote word "solo" alone.

I guess for some people word "solo" is even applied to itself and cant group up with other words..

The term "solo" (with no modifiers) as used by the greater FFXI community has always included trusts after they came out, just as it included adventuring fellows when they came out, and just as it included pets, charmed or otherwise. It refers to the number of characters involved in a fight, not the number of entities.

Lies, all lies! The way I see it, in Vana'diel your char is the one fighting. If there are more than one person fighting, it is no longer solo. If it's a pet job, those pets are a part of that job, so those are also solos. I don't have any issue with people saying solo when they mean with trust, but that's not how it's always been, that's just how you have used it.

you nerds should make a ‘what constitutes a solo’ thread.

A friend and I are going to solo Lilith together using 2 trusts and both of us dual boxing. I just want to triple check, can mewing lullaby fail during either phase?

According to BG, it cant miss.

Absorb-TP, though, sure does, in case you are also using this.

I was doing absorb tp, but after a few fails I figure phase 2 is probably immune to dark debuffs the way phase 1 is immune to light debuffs. Phase 2 gets rough with limited DD and mostly trust heals if she's TPing and popping gyves. Thanks tho

Probably is a matter of macc.

My burn strat uses both sources: all chars use absorb tp and i also have a SMN conduiting mewing.

On most chars the absorb tp works pretty well with just /DRK. But ive been bringing a very fresh char with /DRK, and all of its absorbs are resisted.

Check if you have the drk skills capped on sub lv, plus add a couple of macc pieces, and it should work fine.

And btw. Phase 2 is completely weak to darkness, as SAM strats uses darkness skillchain (light skillchain heals it).