Luck Of The Draw: A Corsair's Guide *NEW*

If your so frustrated with the guides than write one of your own your lazy *** troll. If you have nothing nice to say, shut your **** lips and mind your business.

So why do these forums have a reply feature?

So that people like yourself (and myself) can make our opinions feel relevant. Same reason all social media does.

But if they original owners were looking for your input on the guide they would have collaborated before posting.

You can either like their guide, or you don't have to. But at this point; at least on this topic, any of our opinions are irrelevant.

Don't get butt hurt. Move on to playing the game and enjoying yourself and your family. It's their guide and they will write it how they wish.

i was planning on doing something for my dps simulations regarding rolls anyways. allowing users to have a simulated roll for when doing longer periods, mostly cp parties. but also having a non perfect roll to base gear around isn’t a bad idea.

We do appreciate and welcome different opinions and input from the community, and I don't want people to think the guide is set in stone.

With that said, there seems to be a very clear consensus in favor of 5/5 Winning Streak around here. For the sake of the (very) vocal minority, we'll add a SE entry into the FAQ at some point.

As Afania said, if a strong case for 5/5 Snake Eye can be made thru data/sim, we'll be happy to revisit. But until then, we're going to run with what we have.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about any job except THF to create such guides, and lack the actual in-game experience to differentiate the hypothetical vs. the practical results. It isn't trolling; it's a critique of the logic: "It's always done this way" is a horrible logical appeal to tradition, when the very existence of the debate demonstrates that perhaps such an approach is outdated or insufficient.

It is not trolling. It is not your place to invite a dissenting voice to be silent. Your vitriol and anger are extremely misplaced, and I will appreciate your civility in the future.

Doing something differently just to do it differently is also a terrible plan.
If you have a reason to believe your new way will work, great, move ever forward innovator!
But to critique a product that is quite obviously awesome to those very knowledgeable, and semi-knowledgeable (like myself), just for the sake of tooting your horn is a form of trolling.

Become more knowledgeable before you expect your dissenting voice to have more value than noise.

So are you calling another critic noise, or are you saying I am not knowledgeable, hard to tell what your meaning is there.

And 52s as "quite obviously awesome" is straight up propaganda. Duration is nice, but it's not super mega awesome. Potency is awesome, duration is just a little bonus.

I don't need to define you; your posts can speak for themselves.

I've never said, "quite obviously awesome," so don't misquote me to change the context of my position. A level of awesomeness is subjective.

Here is what I wrote:
And it is true.

To put the value of duration into perspective, ask your SCH and WHM mains how much they have farmed/spent to maximize their enhancing spell duration sets. Ask your GEO mains how much they spent on Pet: Regen sets.
You may not like it, but duration has value.
And 5/5 WS with 3/5 SE sacrifices little potency, if any. That's a non-argument.

This guide is pretty awesome, though.

Those are terrible comparisons with SCH or GEO because you don't sacrifice a single thing by getting more enhancing duration or pet Regen (of which I even have enhancing duration for my GEO...). I am not going to say no to more duration but that doesn't mean I am going to value it over other stats.

And when I can more reliably keep double 11's up then yes, Snake Eye 5/5 is absolutely about potency.

Everyone can score 11's reliably with SE 3/5. It isn't all or nothing.
There are so many work-a-rounds to achieve this, your preference likely is only better for content that doesn't exist.

WS 5/5 let's you keep those 11's up longer. A unique benefit.

There are workarounds for ambuscade (where duration only matters in the long monthly fights) and escha (where easier fights have a timer shorter than the guides 15-20min "most fights" claim and is an option only available to established Cor) but there aren't workarounds to always keeping 11's up in CP parties, Omen or Dynamis unless you use random deal and wild card exclusively for personal use. And then you also get into the issue that having less snake eye usage is going to take longer to reroll another 11. But then it has been explained multiple times that reroll time is a terrible dps loss for snake eye 5/5 but reroll time for 5/5 winning streak is perfectly acceptable.

I don't think you know what "tooting your own horn" means. Nothing that I did falls into that category. I echoed a critique, and I criticized the appeal to tradition as an argumentative method when someone else had already offered an alternative.

The very fact of critique, and not simply insulting or criticism, implies that there is an expectation that the guide could be more, not that it is less. I further object to the infantilization of the player-base to assume that beginners can only understand the simplistic, and cannot be guided through a more advanced perspective or nuance. And while multiple guides (as was suggested), is a possibility, it creates not only unnecessary visual clutter, it dilutes contributions, and exacerbates problems of finding information.

like really, who cares as long as you don't bust all the damn time or forget to roll at all?

Okay, I'll bite. It's a slow night for me.

Yep.
Yep.
What else on earth are you going to use RD and WC for in a CP party?
Do you need constant 11's for fodder floors? If not, I'll wager you will have RD at the time of the mini-boss and main boss. If super concerned about it, have all your Ou KI mules come as CORs for nearly unlimited RDs and WCs.
Again, it is a safe assumption there are more than one COR here. If not, rock that full duration CC good, lucky or 11 roll. If aiming for the main boss, again, there are likely more than one COR, but if not, use RD and WC. Why not? The GEO has probably already used Bolster/BoG/EA/Entrust while you were rolling. If using a melee zerg, it should be safe for you to trot into range to hit the WARs to maybe reset their MS for good measure. It can be figured out unless you expect to live or die by 11's.
And even with 5/5 SE, there is no guarantee of forever 11's. I've said before and I'll say again, it isn't all or nothing.
No one has said perfectly acceptable. Both have been written off as negligible.

I encourage you to read what is written. Not what you think is being written. I think that might fix much of the misunderstanding you are experiencing. Because not a soul is claiming your preference couldn't be situationally useful. It just won't be the most widely useful, hence the recommendation.

Wow I didn't check this guide for like 4 days and three pages broke out. I think we all(?) agree that there are situations were 5/5 SE is better and 5/5 WS is better. Merits aren't that hard to come by, so flipping back and forth between the two isn't super hard. If we can convey that to your run of the mill COR and help them understand the situations to make better choices if they care enough about the job to read all this, we're good.

I swore by 5/5 SE for quite some time and there are absolutely times where I hit SE, it doesn't go to 11 and uses itself and disappears and I remember the times when I could snake eye way more, get more 11s, better rolls etc.

I first shifted to 5/5 WS for the Odin master trial fight. Someone (it might even have been Afania) suggested that full-timing crooked BST roll for that fight could make the difference. For content like that, a full-hour fight where one roll is heavily weighted.. i'd much rather basically full-time CC that roll for the duration, even at the expense of the flexibility of my other rolls (Beast > Drachen > Chaos > SAM, 4 roll cycle).

Stuff like omen and dynamis I enjoy like the value of full-timing a CC roll.

If I'm pre-buffing and dropping (or not dropping) for like a SMN AC burn, I'd obviously rather have SE 5/5 because the duration doesnt mean much in those.

Wish we could 5/5 both but we can't.

Did anyone ever update dream tier stuff with relic body and legs +3? I saw it mentioned like 4 pages back but at some point I had to TL;DR a few pages lol

We all think +3 body will surpass AF+3 body for leaden? Or is it situational based on support or how much TP etc? +3 legs beating even amazing herc WSD/ranged pieces for last stand?

new +3 pieces haven't been added on this site yet, so they probably won't be updated until then

yeah I notice i cant search bazaars for body n legs shards on here yet

Well yeah, the plan is to use the FAQ section for this ATM.

For a few years I have used Snake Eye 5/5. I figured it would be more useful and it was. I stopped using the job for a couple of quick rolls a long while back, and didn't get around to switching to 5/5 Winning Streak til recently.

Honestly, I miss 5/5 Snake Eye. I wish both could be 5/5, but we need Fold and Loaded Deck. Luckily the content I do at the moment benefits from longer rolls. I've noticed a difference, and I can live with Snake Eye 3/5. I'm getting used to unlikely automatic XIs, but if I'm DDing, I don't mind as I get to fight longer.

Examples of where I think 5/5 Winning Streak is negated/less worthy:

- If the target dispels buffs. You'll have to re-roll often, and Snake Eye would give more opportunity to get the best rolls.

- The more rolls you need to do pre-fight (as long as the fight is short), the more you'll want Snake Eye. If you only have to do 2? Not too difficult. But if you're doing 4 or more? It adds up if you care for quality. It depends how much you (or your leader) care, but it also depends on how quick you can start (pop) and finish the fight.

- CPing. Or any event where you don't have time to stand around for decent rolls. Bear with me .. yes, Winning Streak would mean you could fight longer, but if you're struggling to get decent rolls, you're going to lose time anyways.

I don't care how good of a roller someone is, the game will screw you eventually. Snake Eye 5/5 gives less chance of busting, or leaving a "good" roll, instead of the "best" roll. The good/bad roll will last longer with Winning Streak (imagine no Fold/Random Deal/Wild Card up outside Escha), instead of having an excellent roll for slightly less time; and possibly more kills in the long run.

I got the job up to help me be more versatile in endgame. I do have fun rolling, and I think I've gotten good at it over the years. Seeing it from both sides, I think Snake Eye is better for players new to the job. Yes, they lose some duration, but it makes it easier to deal with rolls, which is likely their only job outside Dia/Light Shot/Heals etc.

Winning Streak gets better as a player gears and masters the job. The more duration you get from other sources, the better it gets. But there are occasions where it's useless or only minorly better, so it depends on the content and how much damage you deal. If you're majorly behind the Rangers, Snake Eye is probably better (to boost them). If you're a Fomalhaut Last Stand machine trying to dominate the parse, then Winning Streak is better.

Sorry for the article, but it's the only way I felt I could describe my experiences with the jobs merit categories. I'm on the fence with this. In the end, 5/5 Winning Streak, or 5/5 Snake Eye, neither is right or wrong all the time. Pick what suits you and the content you do regularly.

Edit: Aigulfe said something similar. And I agree, you can switch when you like .. I'm capped on merit points 99% of the time.

You're good people, but some points bare being... Well, pointed out.

You switched to 5/5 WS. As much as you miss 5/5 SE, you haven't switched back.
And you are wise to not have gone back, because 3/5 SE is sufficient. 5/5 SE does not guarantee 11's and proponents of 5/5 SE likely attribute every favorable roll to, "Thank goodness I have 5/5 SE." It is how we are wired. Thank goodness we know we are wired this way so we can step outside of the box and make more grounded decisions.

Most of the time, the more important it is to have greater rolls, the more the content being done will favor rolls of longer duration.

Having 5/5 SE will not guarantee that SE will be available every time a target dispels.

From here forward, it would help to identify the content in mind rather than posing hypothetical situations that may never exist. Like a situation requiring multiple rolls... Is this Escha? Mentioning pops implies it as such. If so, there is a temporary item that will guarantee you have as much SE as you need. If it is high-end Unity, Tumult Curator in particular is not a short fight. Below Tumult Curator, the difficulty drops pretty steadily, but this may well be a niche for maximum SE. I'm not convinced, though, since even with 5/5 WS, 3/5 SE is a thing. It isn't all or nothing.

For CP, follow the guide, get one 11 and have 11s forever, if it is so important. Depending upon your level of progress, you could probably Roll, Fire, Roll, Fire forever and keep up with the TP gain/recasts of your party members. You may not have an 11 COR Roll up full-time if the goal is to maintain forever 11s, but with an 11 up, PR recast will be shorter, enabling you to get that 11 COR Roll back in place in shorter order.

Possible. But vague. I mean, it is equally possible the longer duration good roll is good enough to maintain STP builds, etc.

It really is the player's preference what they will choose. But the guide is not incorrect to recommend 5/5 WS and situationally note 5/5 SE as an alternate option. A new COR may well feel better about themselves with 5/5 SE, attributing the rush at seeing an 11 with the choice to 5/5 SE. But 11's exist without 5/5 SE, and a newer COR would certainly be served well by greater duration so they can more actively participate in other functions while learning the job.

As has been kindly and less kindly posted, it is time to drop this and let the Q & A move forward to other topics. This has been beaten to death. I have yet to see anything concrete to show 5/5 SE as anything more than a feel-good choice. 5/5 WS provides duration unattainable otherwise. +2 SE might do something for you. 5/5 WS always does something for you. You might need it. You might not. But the benefit is always there, and you can't get it any other way.

yeah, sorry if the topic was beaten to death a few pages back, i just hadn't gotten in any swings yet lol ;)

This actually makes no sense to me you literally have them listed in sets then don't mention them when you do the overall Ambu Capes section. I think this is worse for returning players to recommend a gear choice then in a follow up section never even mention them again.

Not sure if I agree about the hunter's roll description myself. a flat increase doesn't mean it loses value at higher levels. accuracy and attack aren't the same formula. 50 acc is 25% hit rate regardless of your base acc (unless floored or capped) where as 50 attack does have marginal diminishing utility.

Requiescat / Aeolian are in your top-10 most important capes to make for the job? Because that's what the cape section was meant to be.

We list the augs for Req/AE clearly in the gear sets section, for anybody who really wants to max out those WS.



We'll consider rewording that.

So you've only ever used Snake Eyes like 3x? At 5/5 it's a 30% chance, that's not that rare.

Snake Eye, much like catastrophy will always miss when it matters.

You keep saying 30% and I at first I thought it was a typo but where is your 30% coming from. We have have 4% per merit on BG for 20% in total but I've always thought this was a bit high from what I've seen ingame. The JPs with a source from a JP magazine have 1% per merit level but SE has been known to give the wrong info out to the JPs in the past. The problem I have is the only testing I can find was a whopping 20 sample size on the English side of things.

Think I'll write a little addon to do it over and over at a nomad moogle and collect data.
Edit: 705 Samples 150 resets so 21.27%%. It's looking like we might be right over at BG and the source just got lost over the years or linked to the wrong thing. Anyway I'll let this run for hours.