Dev Tracker - Discussion

Didn't think I'd have to specify that there's a clear lack of materials relative to wings, because people don't run A/B nearly as much as C.

it's not like there's no supply, but clearly the price reflects it.

You cant look at the AH and go "there are just as many stacks of Scales/Hides as there are Wings". Most people will toss their Wings instead of tying up an AH spot for a 20k item.

The runs I go on, we don't even care about the wing boxes hitting the floor when we're reaching the end at this point. I'm sitting on 63 wing boxes on one of my characters that I'd probably NPC if not for the fact that I keep thinking "oh what if I want to make a tatenashi piece" or "oh what if I get off my *** and get contemplator". Nobody has this problem with hides or scales.

Increased per-kill rewards or boosting the touch bonus at the end are only going to increase the disparity between new and veteran seg farmers.

It's been suggested before, but a better solution is to make some daily/weekly RoE's that work in all three. IDK what the perfect reward amounts are, but ideally it'd be a small/decent bonus for people already clearing 50k+ segs a week while being a massive boon to newer players.

Random examples I pulled out of thin air:

Daily
30 Nostos Killed - Free Amplifier

Weekly
3 NM Kills in A/B/C - Free Mog II
3 Agon Halo Kills - Free Mog II
30 Agon Mob Kills - Free Mog II
100 Nostos Kills - 3000 Segs

RoEs are a good idea.

Sheol A floor 7 mobs have ~65k hp according to wiki, are lvl 131, they give 17 segments.

Sheol C floor 1 mobs have ~60k hp according to wiki, are lvl 129, they give 25 segments.

Makes no sense.

Just make all trash mobs give their lvl - 104 segments. This follows C pattern (or should). What difference exists within all 3 areas, other than mob types of course? Geo debuff bubble potency, thats it, right? That single difference should not be the justification why sheol a/b take such a segment hit.

Mob types have a lot of overlap between all three. The biggest difference between the mobs is their weapon type resistances, or lack thereof in A/B. A group can bring any DDs they want to A/B and not worry about having the correct weapon type for each family. Everything dies in one WS. Hybrid Weapon Skills especially btfo everything except Mimics. Beastmen are different of course, but since they are all sleepable and nearly as weak as regular mobs there isn't much to separate them from Nostos enemies. When we did A/B, there was never a time where we skipped a family due to it being a threat. Meanwhile in Sheol C pugs, I have seen groups skip 50% or more of families because they are scared of them. NMs are very different in their behaviors, popping adds or producing auras.

Layout is another huge difference. A and B are much bigger than C just in their floorplans, not just the number of floors there are. In B you spend a lot of time simply running around. B5 is especially huge with the staircase feeling infinitely large when you are short on time. I would argue it's physically impossible to full clear A/B as we do with C now.

Just have the Moogle Bonus apply to trusts outside Odyssea. The three zones stack, instant reason to do Zone A/B.

Definitely not how that would work lol

Even the 3 people that care would be done in a week and back to exclusive C runs

I overlooked the damage type penalties, but thats hardly a reason for the massive penalty to segments, especially considering what you mentioned about zone size. If anything, the penalties incurred in C offset it being a smaller more compressed zone.

At the end of the day, theres no reason for A/B to be so much worse to farm than C for segments. Thats all were saying. Its not even close.

We can only speculate what design decisions and thought processes went in to (or didn't) balancing each Sheol. Yeah, from our perspective the disparity in segment gain does not necessarily align with the difference in difficulty. Personally I like where A and C are at, they both provide different benefits. Players who are only out to get gil will make 2-3x more in Sheol A than they would in C but at a tradeoff of ~1/2 the segments. Players who are only out to get segments will make 2-2.2x more than they would in Sheol A, but the drops are nearly worthless. B is the real outlier in my opinion. There's no efficient way to farm it for gil or segments. It doesn't even fit in the middle for either one.

Again, I'm all for adjustments to help new players or returnees catch up on Odyssey. As the content ages, there becomes less and less incentive for players who have completed it to go back.

They're just absolute dogshit at balancing economy (and everything else)

Look at Cor Shards vs Pup Shards
Beitetsu vs Plutons
Hell, Dark Crystals vs Water Crystals
O. Bronze vs Tukukus (10 years ago)
Riftcinder vs Riftdross
Ferns vs Pellucids
Leaf stones vs Dusk Stones (tips vs dims)
Byakko vs Seiryu/Genbu/Suzy One is blatantly miles ahead of the others

Every time they make a new item, they purposely fail to account for the disparity in actual values. How wanted items of the same value will actually be valued.

Sometimes they aren't *** about it. Imagine if there were 3 different Swarts and 3 different Heroisms for job types.

You're giving SE too much credit if you think they set things up they way they are to make wings worthless.

They did. The gear they are for are ***. The amount they cover are ***. They knew the zone would be done the most.

None of that happens by accident.

A; 16
B; 27
C; 7 (and they're all trash. Miss me with that tatenashi is good garbage)

NMs per zone. It doesn't take much IQ to understand which items will be needed the most and which the least.

Dude
You actually think their skeleton crew actually went out of their way to gameplan how to make lustreless wings worthless? CMON LOL

Sheol A NM's = Unity Wanted 119/122
Sheol B NM's = Unity Wanted 125/128
Sheol C NM's = Unity Wanted 135/145

You're trying to over complicate things when the answer is so simple.

And they chose to do it that way. It didn't have to be.

Could've sorted it differently, but instead chose to artificially overvalue and devalue items based on sorting. They always do.

They know if all 3 zones and all gear used the same items no one would do A/B at all. As opposed to "sometimes".

lol

119/122 NM Total: 16 NMs * 2 pieces of gear each = 32 * 1190 Scales to cap both items = 35,700 scales.

125/128 NM Total: 27 NMs * 2 pieces of gear each = 54 * 1190 Hides to cap both items = 64,260 hides.

135/145 NM Total: 7 NMs * 3 pieces of gear each = 21 * 1190 Wings to cap all three items = 24,990 wings.

Not every item is "worth" augmenting but just glancing at the proportions would tell you that Wings should devalue before the others if all other circumstances are equal. The fact that Wings are being obtained in such greater numbers due to people only doing C just made it happen that much quicker.

119/122
125
128/135/145

Would've been an almost perfect split, and they didn't, because obviously. B would have 1 less floor, C one more floor, better distribution. Happier everyone.

Happier everyone isn't the goal. Miserable everyone is. See: Salvage. One zone has more alex, so block that zone instead of add alex to other zones.
It's done on purpose. These are choices not mistakes.

Really don't think much thought was put into any of it really, they threw an entire system to bring unity gear up to the "standard" of current 119 gear, only to raise the bar at the end with gaol and invalidate the vast majority of it.

It's not even good for a returnee/starter mindset as the cost to upgrade any of the unity weapons is absurd due to the cost of scales/hides

When you give them a pass like that they do it again. And again. And again. I already listed how they've done it a half dozen times already.

Recognize patterns.

I just view it as repeated incompetence rather than intentional misery

And that's a mistake.

They are incompetent, too, yes.

If you say so, track record of how devs deal with feedback, as well as introduce stuff just leaves me with that impression, it could be intentional after all but again, just feels like incompetence, plus laziness.

He actually thinks they went out of their way to "make Odyssey as miserable as possible and make wings worthless" lol

You don't accidentally add 22 job shards and 22 job voids

You do it on purpose knowing cor/thf/rdm are going to vastly outvalue pup/smn/drg 100:1

Because it keeps you wanting jackpot cor but getting whammy pup. You keep going, because cor's value is purposely raised by not sharing an item with pup. (medals still get spent on cor, not pup, because there's an abundance of pup and a lack of cor)

Not an accident.

I have no idea what kind of tangent you're on. popular job shards are more expensive than not-popular job shards because theres higher demand for popular job shards. If 90% of the playerbase actively uses rdm and 10% of the playerbase actively uses pup, then the demand for rdm is significantly higher.

I dont get what point you're trying to make is.