Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-14 01:24:32
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For CDC Ambuscade capes, is there a threshold under which Crit Rate+10 is better than Crit DMG +10?

My CDC gear is pretty average atm, and I'm wondering if with my current gear I would get more results by boosting the crit chance rather than the crit dmg.
Normally Cdmg should always be better but... I dunno, asking if someone has ever tested this.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-08-14 01:51:28
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There isn't a crit damage augment for Ambuscade capes, so I'm not sure what you're asking.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-14 01:56:19
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Siren.Kyte said: »
There isn't a crit damage augment for Ambuscade capes, so I'm not sure what you're asking.
I need to drink more coffee at 6:00 AM I guess XD
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By Asura.Hadroncollider 2018-08-14 02:42:40
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Temper II has no known skill cap
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By Boshi 2018-08-14 09:03:47
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Aerix said: »
scaled beyond 500 like Temper II,
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By Asura.Hadroncollider 2018-08-14 13:14:41
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ugh… sorry.
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 00:46:55
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By the way, since the guide doesn't cover it and since there hasn't been much discussion surrounding the topic, any thoughts on this Aeolian Edge build?

ItemSet 360762

Merlinic: INT/MAB/MDMG
JSE Cape: INT/MACC+MDMG/WSD/MDMG


Of course DM augments could be superior, but lady luck is fickle. I know it's very situational in its use, but since RDMs should have most of that gear anyway, it's not really costly to assemble. It should also work for Sanguine Blade with some adjustments (Pixie+1, Archon, Sequence)

I'm also wondering how the AE BiS potential for RDM compares to jobs that can wear Aeneas and more WSD+MAB via Herculean, such as DNC. I think RDM could actually outperform DNC's AE thanks to Gain-INT/MAB traits/high MAB gear, but I'm not sure.
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By Afania 2018-08-21 09:47:09
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Aerix said: »
I'm also wondering how the AE BiS potential for RDM compares to jobs that can wear Aeneas and more WSD+MAB via Herculean,

I hit about 8.7k to 9.6k at 1000 TP on COR against mandy outside of adoulin. At 1750+ TP(basically same effect as 3k TP thanks to 1250 TP bonus in gear) its about 10k to 11k.

Completely unbuffed, no wizards roll, nor song, food nor geo bubbles. no weather bonus/ionis either. I'm missing the new sash from Trove and shiva's ring +1, so my set isn't perfect.

Not an Aeneas job but just for your ref.
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By Boshi 2018-08-21 10:04:49
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On thf I remember testing out malevolence vs levante and lev losing out. Maybe with higher matt on rdm it wins but would need to check
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 10:45:47
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Afania said: »
Aerix said: »
I'm also wondering how the AE BiS potential for RDM compares to jobs that can wear Aeneas and more WSD+MAB via Herculean,

I hit about 8.7k to 9.6k at 1000 TP on COR against mandy outside of adoulin. At 1750+ TP(basically same effect as 3k TP thanks to 1250 TP bonus in gear) its about 10k to 11k.

Completely unbuffed, no wizards roll, nor song, food nor geo bubbles. no weather bonus/ionis either. I'm missing the new sash from Trove and shiva's ring +1, so my set isn't perfect.

Not an Aeneas job but just for your ref.

Oh right, I totally forgot about COR and Ataktos. Considering COR has TP Bonus+1000 and access to some really good AE gear like relic boots +3 and other good MAB stuff, I suppose that would make COR the #1 contender rather than DNC? And as far as I can tell Rostam+Fettering would be the BiS weapons for AE.
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By Afania 2018-08-21 11:11:39
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Aerix said: »
Oh right, I totally forgot about COR and Ataktos. Considering COR has TP Bonus+1000 and access to some really good AE gear like relic boots +3 and other good MAB stuff, I suppose that would make COR the #1 contender rather than DNC? And as far as I can tell Rostam+Fettering would be the BiS weapons for AE.

I think the biggest difference between COR and DNC is ranged and ammo slot. COR has living bullet, and afaik no other job has that much mab on ammo slot. then there is 1000 tp bonus.

Rest of the set is just matter of DM augment luck. It's theorically possible to get something like 15 INT 50 mab 10 wsd on DM herc, which beats everything else. So whoever gets that unicorn DM would win.

Without DM augment luck though COR relic +3 feet/body is quite far ahead of other none DM options.
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-08-21 11:22:53
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Ranger's pretty great for AE as well (has access to Ataktos, Malevolence, and Animikii Bullet but no native rolls and no especially amazing MAB/WSD AF1/2).
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-08-21 11:48:21
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Ranger's pretty great for AE as well (has access to Ataktos, Malevolence, and Animikii Bullet but no native rolls and no especially amazing MAB/WSD AF1/2).

If I'm rocking a melee strat on ranger with multiple mobs, it's gastraphetes and quelling bolts for great MAB and aeolian edge.
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-08-21 11:50:51
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Gastra is a notably worse option.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-08-21 12:56:24
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Gastra is a notably worse
Siren.Kyte said: »
Gastra is a notably worse option.


You're gonna tell me that 30mab/30macc in the ammo slot is worse than what? Foma's TP bonus? Going to say that any TP level over 2k, and possibly lower, that TP bonus will lose.

But alas this is a RDM forum, no need to go math nuts over a non-RDM option in here. Will gladly continue in PM.
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-08-21 13:01:58
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Ranger's pretty great for AE as well (has access to Ataktos, Malevolence, and Animikii Bullet but no native rolls and no especially amazing MAB/WSD AF1/2).



.....
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 13:23:13
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Afania said: »
Aerix said: »
Oh right, I totally forgot about COR and Ataktos. Considering COR has TP Bonus+1000 and access to some really good AE gear like relic boots +3 and other good MAB stuff, I suppose that would make COR the #1 contender rather than DNC? And as far as I can tell Rostam+Fettering would be the BiS weapons for AE.

I think the biggest difference between COR and DNC is ranged and ammo slot. COR has living bullet, and afaik no other job has that much mab on ammo slot. then there is 1000 tp bonus.

Rest of the set is just matter of DM augment luck. It's theorically possible to get something like 15 INT 50 mab 10 wsd on DM herc, which beats everything else. So whoever gets that unicorn DM would win.

Without DM augment luck though COR relic +3 feet/body is quite far ahead of other none DM options.

I mean, theoretically RDM could get the same DM augments on Chironic/Merlinic, but those augs are highly improbable, so I'd say it's best to just compare jobs based on realistic gear choices.

Assuming solo, COR would obviously win due to rolls, but it would be nice to see how RDM and COR would compare in a full buff setting.

In case anybody is curious: as far as WSD goes, I compared Viti. Chapeau +3 to my Merlinic head with MAB+50 and the chapeau lost quite noticeably due to the lack of MAB.

I'm all ears if anybody has any suggestions to improve the RDM set I linked above.
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By Afania 2018-08-21 15:44:50
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Aerix said: »
Afania said: »
Aerix said: »
Oh right, I totally forgot about COR and Ataktos. Considering COR has TP Bonus+1000 and access to some really good AE gear like relic boots +3 and other good MAB stuff, I suppose that would make COR the #1 contender rather than DNC? And as far as I can tell Rostam+Fettering would be the BiS weapons for AE.

I think the biggest difference between COR and DNC is ranged and ammo slot. COR has living bullet, and afaik no other job has that much mab on ammo slot. then there is 1000 tp bonus.

Rest of the set is just matter of DM augment luck. It's theorically possible to get something like 15 INT 50 mab 10 wsd on DM herc, which beats everything else. So whoever gets that unicorn DM would win.

Without DM augment luck though COR relic +3 feet/body is quite far ahead of other none DM options.

I mean, theoretically RDM could get the same DM augments on Chironic/Merlinic, but those augs are highly improbable, so I'd say it's best to just compare jobs based on realistic gear choices.

Assuming solo, COR would obviously win due to rolls, but it would be nice to see how RDM and COR would compare in a full buff setting.

In case anybody is curious: as far as WSD goes, I compared Viti. Chapeau +3 to my Merlinic head with MAB+50 and the chapeau lost quite noticeably due to the lack of MAB.

I'm all ears if anybody has any suggestions to improve the RDM set I linked above.


Forgot to post sets that I used. Not a rdm set but some gears can be used on rdm too.

ItemSet 341284
Legs head all augmented with DM 47 to 50 mab.
INT mdmg wsd pdt augment.
Tp bonus and mab on moonshade,

I would change acumen ring to shiva+1 If I have them, and waist to trove one. Shiva is 3 mab 9 INT. Haven't done math about it v.s new wsd ring though. I feel the more buffs you have the better wsd gets, and vice versa.

I actually prefer oat mab augmented atoyac over dyna D weapon because:
1) oat enhance tp gain and in situations that AE one shots fodder anyways, the faster tp always means faster cleave. The actual number doesn't matter as much because it's final cleave speed that matters.

2) it has dex on it, which is AE mod.

3) mab+10 is nice.

Rdm can use atoyac too, so I think it's worth considering for those without Malevolence.
 Asura.Seekerstar
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By Asura.Seekerstar 2018-08-21 18:15:37
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Why is there a COR gearset in the RDM thread? Just wondering, have a great day ^.^
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By Afania 2018-08-21 19:22:15
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Asura.Seekerstar said: »
Why is there a COR gearset in the RDM thread? Just wondering, have a great day ^.^

Because he asked "comparison v.s another job" and brought up the discussion of Rostam, aka I was just answering OPs question and followed the conversation in the same path that he started?

Otherwise how would you discuss the AE testimonials on that job without actually posting a gear set used after providing the dmg data that he asked for?

If he just ask for an AE set without asking "how does another job do" nor mention Rostam then I wouldn't post it. And I keep it relevant to Ops question about oat and rings I believe?

So yeah maybe you overreact, as usual.

Also strange that nobody has issue with rng gear discussions above but mine got picked.
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By Anna Ruthven 2018-08-21 19:28:24
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>.>
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 19:42:14
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Afania said: »
Forgot to post sets that I used. Not a rdm set but some gears can be used on rdm too.

Legs head all augmented with DM 47 to 50 mab.
INT mdmg wsd pdt augment.
Tp bonus and mab on moonshade,

I would change acumen ring to shiva+1 If I have them, and waist to trove one. Shiva is 3 mab 9 INT. Haven't done math about it v.s new wsd ring though. I feel the more buffs you have the better wsd gets, and vice versa.

I actually prefer oat mab augmented atoyac over dyna D weapon because:
1) oat enhance tp gain and in situations that AE one shots fodder anyways, the faster tp always means faster cleave. The actual number doesn't matter as much because it's final cleave speed that matters.

2) it has dex on it, which is AE mod.

3) mab+10 is nice.

Rdm can use atoyac too, so I think it's worth considering for those without Malevolence.

I considered Atoyac too, but I think what kills it compared to Rostam is that it has no MDMG on it (unless chosen as augment), while Rostam has +217. As far as I can tell, it makes a very noticeable difference on AE damage, which I believe is the reason why Malevolence beats out Levante's affinity.

Perhaps it would be worth testing Vanir Knife against Atoyac in main hand? It's the only dagger COR can wear aside from the new Dyna weapons that has any MDMG on it--even if it's only +70--and I don't think MDMG gets applied in offhand.
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By Afania 2018-08-21 19:47:26
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Aerix said: »
Afania said: »
Forgot to post sets that I used. Not a rdm set but some gears can be used on rdm too.

Legs head all augmented with DM 47 to 50 mab.
INT mdmg wsd pdt augment.
Tp bonus and mab on moonshade,

I would change acumen ring to shiva+1 If I have them, and waist to trove one. Shiva is 3 mab 9 INT. Haven't done math about it v.s new wsd ring though. I feel the more buffs you have the better wsd gets, and vice versa.

I actually prefer oat mab augmented atoyac over dyna D weapon because:
1) oat enhance tp gain and in situations that AE one shots fodder anyways, the faster tp always means faster cleave. The actual number doesn't matter as much because it's final cleave speed that matters.

2) it has dex on it, which is AE mod.

3) mab+10 is nice.

Rdm can use atoyac too, so I think it's worth considering for those without Malevolence.

I considered Atoyac too, but I think what kills it compared to Rostam is that it has almost no MDMG on it, while Rostam has +217. As far as I can tell, it makes a very noticeable difference on AE damage, which I believe is the reason why Malevolence beats out Levante's affinity.

It shouldn't be hard to make a calculator for AE to calculate mdmg weight v.s mdb, like what Leaden/WF has.

let me try it with excel real quick.
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 19:55:39
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Actually, if accuracy isn't an issue, there's no reason not to go with Rostam/Atoyac rather than Fettering or Hepatizon+1 in offhand. The DEX on Atoyac should make up for the slightly lower MAB and you get OAT for faster TP. Seems ideal to me.

For RDM, it should be Malevolence/Levante or Mandau/Levante if you can't get a good Malevolence.
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 20:17:35
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Okay, I went out and tested it, and to my surprise, MDMG does in fact affect AE even in offhand. And it's a very big difference.

Ternion+1 offhand: 13669
Sequence offhand: 14941
Almace offhand: 15555

So maybe MDMG stacks from mainhand and offhand? There might be a slight chance it could make Almace better than Levante for the offhand slot, but I don't have a good Malevolence to test it since I trashed all the imperfect ones. :/

In any case, this would make Fettering Blade considerably better than Atoyac for AE damage, even at the cost of OAT.
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By Afania 2018-08-21 20:36:39
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Ok try this:

https://docs.zoho.com/file/947z146da6f3aa2f54990bb0b60c789b92617

Notes:

1) I'm pretty notorious with miscalculation/parentheses *** up etc. And I haven't double check final result yet.

If you notice anything wrong, please let me know immediately.

2) Forumla used:
(((152 + floor((WeaponLevel-99)*2.45) + WSC) * fTP + dSTAT + Magic Damage (Statistic))) * Affinity * Day & Weather bonus * MAB/MDB.

3) dSTAT = caps at 32. So do not enter anything bigger than that.

dSTAT= (player INT - Monster INT/2) + 8

4) ftp: 2 @1000 TP, 3 @2000 TP, 4.5 @3000 TP. So enter the number that matches your tp bonus gear/buffs.

Let me know if something is broken.

Aerix said: »
Actually, if accuracy isn't an issue, there's no reason not to go with Rostam/Atoyac rather than Fettering or Hepatizon+1 in offhand. The DEX on Atoyac should make up for the slightly lower MAB and you get OAT for faster TP. Seems ideal to me.

I explained the value of faster TP for cleaving previously. Say if option A has a TP speed of 2.5 round/ws and hit 15000 ws damage, option B has a TP speed of 2.1 round/ws and hit 13000 ws damage, but mobs only has 12000 HP. Then option B will cleave faster despite ws damage is lower.

That's pretty much the key to cleaving. Unless your WS one shots everything in max damage set but not lower dmg set, faster TP often can win in terms of actual cleave efficiency.

That being said, Atoyac has pretty high delay, so you'll have to check spreadsheet on round/ws v.s other options.

I wouldn't dismiss oat itself completely though.

And yeah, mdmg works offhand. But you have to use a dagger for AE anyways, so atoyac isn't skipable. I haven't calculate rostam v.s atoyac but that will need aeolian edge update on spreadsheet since TP speed is involved, not just max ws damage.
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By Aerix 2018-08-21 21:12:31
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Well, if we're taking TP speed into consideration for cleaving potential, then wouldn't RDM be #1 simply due to Temper II? But yes, I see your point about Atoyac beating Fettering in that case. Similarly, Blurred Knife +1 wouldn't be bad either if accuracy matters.

I'll test the calculator tomorrow, thanks!
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-08-21 21:59:26
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I don't know enough about excel, but if you wanted to make it easier on the user to calculate fTP, you could do something like:

if tp < 2000:
a = (tp - 1000) / 1000
ftp = 2 + a

else if tp < 3000:
a = (tp - 2000) / 1000
ftp = 3 + a * 1.5

else:
ftp = 4.5
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By Afania 2018-08-21 22:22:52
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
I don't know enough about excel, but if you wanted to make it easier on the user to calculate fTP, you could do something like:

if tp < 2000:
a = (tp - 1000) / 1000
ftp = 2 + a

else if tp < 3000:
a = (tp - 2000) / 1000
ftp = 3 + a * 1.5

else:
ftp = 4.5

Summons Austar for sim :)
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By Aerix 2018-08-22 00:53:50
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So if the numbers in the calculator are correct, then Almace indeed beats Levante dagger for raw damage, making it a competitive offhand (I'll test this later on in-game to confirm). Rather unexpected, but nonetheless Malevolence/Almace probably wouldn't be the new go-to, as Male/Levante beat them in terms of TP speed. Levante/Almace would be a pretty solid combo if you can't get a good Malevolence, though. Also INT+ on the Ambu cape seems to be better than MDMG for the Abdhaljs Dye augment.

Also comparing presumed BiS gear between RDM and COR, COR pulls ahead by about ~1.4k more damage at 1k TP thanks to Ataktos and WSD. Although RDM has much higher DEX+INT and MAB to compensate somewhat, it doesn't compare to the massive bonuses COR can get on WS.

COR gear in question would be what Afania linked above with some changes: Rostam/Atoyac, Herc both augmented with 10 INT/35 MAB/5% WSD damage each (perfect Fern augs, but not DM; WSD+MAB is better than pure MAB), Karieyh+1, Epaminondas's, Orpheus's. A saving grace for RDM is that we don't need unrealistic augments for our numbers.

In any case, if RDM doesn't get rolls, COR pulls even further ahead. On the other hand, a rollbuffed RDM would out-TP a COR due to Temper II and essentially make up for the difference in WS damage.
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