|
|
Reisenjima T4s
 Ragnarok.Primex
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Ragnarok.Primex 2017-05-02 13:27:49
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »No offense taken, Primex. I'm of the opinion no job should be essential, so I think it is cool you can hold it and kill it without a tank. Only because SMNS can kill it before it starts to hurt me.
Which again, can apply to 99% of the content in game. Thus eliminating not only the need for other DPS, but for tanks as well.
I always argue for buffing other jobs to be competitive with the current golden child. But THIS IS THE ONE TIME - where I'm saying "nope.Broken is broken. Nerf this".
If they buffed jobs to be as powerful as SMN - this game would die.
Leaving SMN where it is at the moment is also going to create a funnel where everyone is either a SMN, a SMN, or a SMN.
Both options reduce life expectency of this game. Only option is nerf SMN or release content where SMN is much less effective.
[+]
 Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-02 13:45:09
If they buffed jobs to be as powerful as SMN - this game would die.
Leaving SMN where it is at the moment is also going to create a funnel where everyone is either a SMN, a SMN, or a SMN.
That's the "use the broken exploit or lose to the broken exploit" situation that defines something as being Game Breaking.
There were only a handful of times in this games history were a nerf was needed. OG RNG was OP as *** on high level stuff, ignoring LCF was god mode back then. DRK hitting 93% haste and / or KCing it with SEBW and killing every HNM in 30s was stupid silly. BST's standing at 20+ feet hitting their ready macro while watching cat videos. Then there was the 2H DD nerf, back when STR and DEX were 1:1 conversion, LCF was before attack cap and DD's were spamming 2~3K WS's at level 75 on HNM content.
Each of those created a situation where the only choice was to either dial everyone's power to the newly inflated value, and kill the game, or dial down the offending entity to maintain some form of balance.
Ragnarok.Ejiin
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-05-02 13:53:32
I just don't understand why having SMN be the go to DD for melee damage endgame zergs is so terrible, and none of the arguments put forth here have come close to convincing me.
I just don't see who gets hurt, besides an apparently considerable set of butts.
It really has nothing to do with SMN. It could very well be any other job and has been in FFXI's history. The problem is the gap. I fully realize you're worried that without conduit, SMN will entirely lose its spot in endgame, but you're killing what semblance of longevity this game has left. Ideally, I hope they offset a straight conduit nerf with lowering BP recast down to whatever number that would allow them to compete in endgame.
I know the mantra going around is "***'s so easy why does it matter" except it's not, or people wouldn't be spending 100s of million gil to cheese it. There are plenty of groups out there still struggling and it takes a considerable amount of their playtime to farm the gil/get the JP/farm the gear to better prepare themselves for these fights. Then they have to attain a fairly considerable amount of knowledge about each of the NM's mechanic and how to deal with it. Conduit burn bypasses nearly all of this, making it vastly easier for more average groups to clear the content in a fast manner, thus getting bored with the game faster and quitting. Additionally, if by some miracle we get new, challenging content, the go-to method to clear it will just be conduit burning if left unchecked.
Asura.Boogerballs said: »pretty much the people that can kill are killing while the people that cant are bitching
This is the stupidest post in the entire thread. Congratulations!
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 734
By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-05-02 14:05:29
Alternative working strats: 6~10 member groups.
What Setups buffs etc would you use for any/all Helm who have no Aeonics?
Assume all have Mythic AG at least and master jobs.
By Blazed1979 2017-05-02 14:07:45
If they buffed jobs to be as powerful as SMN - this game would die.
Leaving SMN where it is at the moment is also going to create a funnel where everyone is either a SMN, a SMN, or a SMN.
That's the "use the broken exploit or lose to the broken exploit" situation that defines something as being Game Breaking.
There were only a handful of times in this games history were a nerf was needed. OG RNG was OP as *** on high level stuff, ignoring LCF was god mode back then. DRK hitting 93% haste and / or KCing it with SEBW and killing every HNM in 30s was stupid silly. BST's standing at 20+ feet hitting their ready macro while watching cat videos. Then there was the 2H DD nerf, back when STR and DEX were 1:1 conversion, LCF was before attack cap and DD's were spamming 2~3K WS's at level 75 on HNM content.
Each of those created a situation where the only choice was to either dial everyone's power to the newly inflated value, and kill the game, or dial down the offending entity to maintain some form of balance. with the exception of BST and RNG, I was right there on all those badnwagons because I'm an opportunist who pimped whatever flavor of the month it was to gain access to gear that would pimp my war. The fact I've just spent hundreds of millions of gil on creating a competitive SMN is all the proof I need, and anyone who knows me should, of how OP SMN is.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-02 14:11:42
I was right there on all those badnwagons because I'm an opportunist who pimped whatever flavor of the month it was to gain access to gear that would pimp my war.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this.
Abusing and exploiting game mechanics is what Final Fantasy games are all about. People just need to admit to themselves they are abusing a broken game mechanic and be prepared for the eventual correction that happens, before the next broken game mechanic is discovered.
By Blazed1979 2017-05-02 14:12:45
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »Alternative working strats: 6~10 member groups.
What Setups buffs etc would you use for any/all Helm who have no Aeonics?
Assume all have Mythic AG at least and master jobs. You've stuck well. I don't know if it was intentional or not but that's precisely the point.
You would need 2 VERY pimped WARs or DRKs with AG R/E/M to do the same damage an average, mediocre Nirvana SMN would. But the HP scaling punishes us for that. So effectively, it just can't be done. You cannot under the current circumstances trade SMN for any other job. You have to add numbers, which increases the HP scaling, which effectively just makes it redundant.
By Blazed1979 2017-05-02 14:17:08
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this. Nope. And I don't shy away from it either. I'll get what I want based on the reality of the game. If they nerf something, I'll fall back on something else.
SE is doing this all on purpose. Those of us who have been here for a while know that we are made to jump through loops to get to the carrot. Even WHM was useless for the longest of time.
And seriously, SMNs, you can take a 50% nerf on your dmg and still be competitive. At least you're not all subbing whm and being asked to be a healer like it was back in the early 2000's.
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-05-02 14:18:53
Unless you're adding more summoners. Who do more damage than the HP scaling can keep up with.
By Blazed1979 2017-05-02 14:23:50
Unless you're adding more summoners. Who do more damage than the HP scaling can keep up with. exactly!
So everyone lvl SMN and lets zerg ***and finish all the aeonics so we have nothing left to do. I'm sure that's what we all need at this point. Piss easy content so we can turn FFXI into FFXIV.
 Ragnarok.Inx
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 371
By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-05-02 15:09:31
I just don't understand why having SMN be the go to DD for melee damage endgame zergs is so terrible, and none of the arguments put forth here have come close to convincing me.
I just don't see who gets hurt, besides an apparently considerable set of butts.
It really has nothing to do with SMN. It could very well be any other job and has been in FFXI's history. The problem is the gap. I fully realize you're worried that without conduit, SMN will entirely lose its spot in endgame, but you're killing what semblance of longevity this game has left. Ideally, I hope they offset a straight conduit nerf with lowering BP recast down to whatever number that would allow them to compete in endgame.
I know the mantra going around is "***'s so easy why does it matter" except it's not, or people wouldn't be spending 100s of million gil to cheese it. There are plenty of groups out there still struggling and it takes a considerable amount of their playtime to farm the gil/get the JP/farm the gear to better prepare themselves for these fights. Then they have to attain a fairly considerable amount of knowledge about each of the NM's mechanic and how to deal with it. Conduit burn bypasses nearly all of this, making it vastly easier for more average groups to clear the content in a fast manner, thus getting bored with the game faster and quitting. Additionally, if we by some miracle we get new, challenging content, the go-to method to clear it will just be conduit burning if left unchecked.
Asura.Boogerballs said: »pretty much the people that can kill are killing while the people that cant are bitching
This is the stupidest post in the entire thread. Congratulations!
Look, I'm not actually opposed to a solution whereby any loss of output to AC is compensated for by an increase in DPS outside of that, say a 10 second floor on BP-delay in exchange for a 3 Rage BP restriction within AC. That would at least take the sting out of it.
The problem I have is that the feelings of the bandwagoners who as you say are "spending 100s of million gil to cheese it" are kinda important if you are talking about the long-term health of the game.
Because what it boils down to is SE on one hand serving them up a means to get the gear and success they dream of, only for them to pull a blind switch on them at the last minute and take it all away.
If you're in a position (like you are, and we are) where you don't need to abuse AC to get an Aeonic, whatever happens its not that big of a deal. For those up-and-comers who've possibly poured 200m into a Mythic it is a giant thumb in the eye.
Who's feelings need to be considered more in order to protect the longevity of the game, been-there, done-that vets like us, or people still hungry for the content?
I'd argue at this point in the game's life, serving the latter is the right way to go.
[+]
 Phoenix.Thorbean
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2017-05-02 15:42:56
When did this game stop being about personal goals and enjoyment? Is XI a competative MMO now? The path of least resistance is usually the most popular, but people who can, still like to hike off road.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 734
By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-05-02 15:51:20
When did this game stop being about personal goals and enjoyment? Is XI a competative MMO now? The path of least resistance is usually the most popular, but people who can, still like to hike off road.
The 2 are not mutually exclusive. Can both be Personal goals and highly competitive. Back oh so many years ago when it was HNM or End game, There was always competition for Time spawns and Lottery pops. This is all about bragging rights and being able to do what others can not, or at least a better faster way.
Run your own path and see where you get but once you reach that bottle neck what will you do buck the system or fall in line and join the side who wins? Fair to say popular does not mean better for everyone. Some ppl still hate to even read about an NM and just Fight it and figure it out on their own. No wiki no helpful hints all about exploration and obtaining something under their own power. Though those are far and few between the masses.
By Blazed1979 2017-05-02 15:54:28
I was PLD75 in aegis/excal, my LS's main tank for many years when Abyssea came out. I got pushed to ridicule within 2 weeks of release, to the point where I no longer had a spot in anything as an entire alliance farmed Gandivas and were wiping to Turul for Loki's keftans.
I re-geared and updated my MNK within a month. Pretty soon I was selling gear and Loki Keftan's for 100mil each to my ex-ls members with just my MNK and WHM mule. SMN nerf will come. But I'm going to ride it out while its here and enjoy it. When they nerf it, one of my other jobs will be able to step up.
Thats FFXI.
Phoenix.Thorbean
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2017-05-02 16:03:58
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »When did this game stop being about personal goals and enjoyment? Is XI a competative MMO now? The path of least resistance is usually the most popular, but people who can, still like to hike off road.
The 2 are not mutually exclusive. Can both be Personal goals and highly competitive. Back oh so many years ago when it was HNM or End game, There was always competition for Time spawns and Lottery pops. This is all about bragging rights and being able to do what others can not, or at least a better faster way.
Run your own path and see where you get but once you reach that bottle neck what will you do buck the system or fall in line and join the side who wins? Fair to say popular does not mean better for everyone. Some ppl still hate to even read about an NM and just Fight it and figure it out on their own. No wiki no helpful hints all about exploration and obtaining something under their own power. Though those are far and few between the masses.
There's not really anything to brag about though. It's like bragging about killing ruby weapon with KotR isn't it? I'd rather fail forever than join a winning side that I don't agree with. I play to challenge myself and have fun, some just play for the shineys. To each his/her own IMO. I don't think it's worth stressing about.
Asura.Frod
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-05-02 16:18:17
When did this game stop being about personal goals and enjoyment? Is XI a competative MMO now? The path of least resistance is usually the most popular, but people who can, still like to hike off road.
Around the time that hp scaling came in, maybe around when delve was in. Those two really pushed a sense of elitism, moreso than other older forms of endgame.
Asura.Gotenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 243
By Asura.Gotenn 2017-05-02 16:29:24
Quote: May Job ・Adjustments to some jobs -
"Some Jobs"... more than one? I'm still gunning for MNK and NIN buffs. I have fun zerging on SMN but I dont care if they knock conduit back a few notches. Maybe drop the delay to every 2 seconds, rather than instant. that would basically half the DPS of conduit.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-02 16:30:42
Is XI a competative MMO now?
Where have you been for the past decade? FFXI is extremely competitive to get into groups to do content. The competition isn't in a PvP battle arena but in the jobs and builds to be part of a fight. Because FFXI's job system allows you to change jobs, Guild leaders will tell their members to go on whatever job fits their strategy, those strategies are taken from the current meta. When there is a diversity of strategies then it creates a healthy environment where each job gets to be used and played and the players get to experience a variety of content. When the meta boils down to a single job or strategy, then ***gets unhealthy. The important part is that there are enough viable strategies with approximately the same effectiveness that it encourages diverse game play. SMN AC steamrolling everything does the exact opposite of all that, one super easy, super effective strategy that is so far ahead of all others that there is absolutely zero reason for anyone not to use it.
Phoenix.Thorbean
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2017-05-02 16:37:54
Isn't that more of a social/community issue? How is the JP community by comparison? I'm curious beause I stopped playing seriously around delve v1, and just come back every few months to collect some new pieces when I get the itch again. I don't have regular hours either so I do almost everything solo or in PUGs. Maybe I'm on at the wrong times and avoiding the right people.
Maybe it stemed from people not being inclusive, so small less exp'd groups found a strategy to circumvent the problem and still get things done?
Edit: Above @ Frod.
Phoenix.Thorbean
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Phoenix.Thorbean 2017-05-02 16:49:26
Is XI a competative MMO now?
Where have you been for the past decade? FFXI is extremely competitive to get into groups to do content. The competition isn't in a PvP battle arena but in the jobs and builds to be part of a fight. Because FFXI's job system allows you to change jobs, Guild leaders will tell their members to go on whatever job fits their strategy, those strategies are taken from the current meta. When there is a diversity of strategies then it creates a healthy environment where each job gets to be used and played and the players get to experience a variety of content. When the meta boils down to a single job or strategy, then ***gets unhealthy. The important part is that there are enough viable strategies with approximately the same effectiveness that it encourages diverse game play. SMN AC steamrolling everything does the exact opposite of all that, one super easy, super effective strategy that is so far ahead of all others that there is absolutely zero reason for anyone not to use it.
Surely it's only competitive if you make it so. I've seen threads offering free aeonics etc. and people willing to take someone on the wrong job to learn and advise them on what jobs would be a help in future runs/shouts. If people are exculded, they will either quit or find a cheap strategy to abuse to get a weapon they think they need to get into those fruity little clubs.
Asura.Ramsy
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 281
By Asura.Ramsy 2017-05-02 16:50:35
Anyone remember the last page actual T4 strategies are talked about?
[+]
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-02 16:56:22
Anyone remember the last page actual T4 strategies are talked about?
SMN SMN something something SMN
That's your T4 strategy right now.
This discussion is how the OPness of AC SMN is making all other strategies obsolete and a waste of time.
[+]
Leviathan.Stamos
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1239
By Leviathan.Stamos 2017-05-02 16:57:04
Still confused how this is even a discussion lol
SMN can kill the "hardest" monsters in the game in 30~ seconds, while avoiding all of their mechanics. What is not broken about that?
Odin.Taffy
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 79
By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-02 17:25:06
Came back to check if any other responses - feel like I got beat with a wet fish named SMN for 7 pages.
Asura.Frod
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-05-02 17:28:34
Isn't that more of a social/community issue? How is the JP community by comparison? I'm curious beause I stopped playing seriously around delve v1, and just come back every few months to collect some new pieces when I get the itch again. I don't have regular hours either so I do almost everything solo or in PUGs. Maybe I'm on at the wrong times and avoiding the right people.
Maybe it stemed from people not being inclusive, so small less exp'd groups found a strategy to circumvent the problem and still get things done?
Edit: Above @ Frod.
Pretty much, Before HP scaling mechanics, you could bring Friends and LS members who maybe weren't able to properly contribute to this one event (but are useful for that other event). After it lead to situations where people needed to absolutely 100% validate their PT position for everything, or just not make progress.
By Zephin 2017-05-02 17:32:56
Anyone remember the last page actual T4 strategies are talked about?
Think everything pre page 16 was about T4's. Have to sift through alot after that.
[+]
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 734
By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-05-02 18:27:28
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »Alternative working strats: 6~10 member groups.
What Setups buffs etc would you use for any/all Helm who have no Aeonics?
Assume all have Mythic AG at least and master jobs.
Anyone?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Asura.Reidden 2017-05-02 18:34:03
My group does it dd set up:
tank, brd, geo, whm
dd,dd,dd,cor,geo,whm
brd buffs dd's before popping ofc.
[+]
By Stiltz 2017-05-02 21:22:18
There was a time when "a creative use of game mechanics" was just that and that alone. Using a 45-60m cooldown to clear a single fight with one class where other classes can't isn't an "exploit".
E x a m p l e :
Quadra Magic + W-Summon is not an "exploit".
Using W-Item to get infinite items is an "exploit".
If that were the case, no single class should technically be designated as a tank; because those classes are exploiting threat mechanics to clear content.
Rangers shouldn't be allowed to use weapons beyond 9yalms; they're exploiting maximum distances to avoid spells.
Everyone should be in range to take a Firaga X to the dome, if they're not, they're exploiting.
Blue Mages shouldn't be able to cast spells and melee as well as the main classes because, no wait, that would hurt your butt feelings.
Guys.
G u y s .
It's just a game of rock, paper, cometdog.
In another six months, Schah will be replaced by something more difficult, and should they ever put in a fight where the answer is "throw a ***-load of dragoons at it", the same exact people posting in this thread will be crying foul about how dragoons are suddenly broken.
And everyone will laugh.
If it's "so cheap and easy" to roll a summoner and cheese "a single fight", then go do it. Why don't you want to roll a summoner to Schah level content for some strange reason? After all, it's only a couple days and a few hundred million gil!
We have literally have tanks crying because they spent a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE amount of money on gear and didn't do as much damage as an AC'd summoner in less than a minute.
Just end my life, fam.
I know most of you posting here have to be old enough to be out of high school. Have you kids been eating Xanex like Reese's pieces or what? These complaints are some kind of special angsty internet penis envy. Is it that much of an issue in your life that decent summoners are able to clear something? Seems like it could just be a fight meant for summoners, right?
Gee, that's never happened before.
You know, like how there's certain fights designed specifically around blink tanking. Did you people *** about blink tanks on a daily basis because they could clear the Zi'tah death rabbit? I think I missed that forty page circlejerk.
(Hey, you know those CIA war reports basically said every now and then someone *** up and launches a hellfire missile into a school full of children, right? Take this level of buttfury and go complain about that. Go build a bird house, write a shitty e-book, or take guitar lessons. Hell, go get baked in your parent's basement.)
It's time to stop.
If there's suddenly 500 summoners running around on every server smoking content at all levels, you will see immediate changes.
Since a lot of people seem to forget what game they're playing, let's have a short history about summoners and game content.
It's not like the major plot of multiple games in this series revolves entirely around that class or anything.
- "Man, Clops is such *** because I didn't level dragoons and ninjas. I sure hope I don't have to start a new playthrough!" Wait, that's terrible.
- w w w . a l t a v i s t a . c o m Enter
Search: F F 7 m a t e r i a c o m b o s
- Oh no, I don't want pump Eden! I'd much rather have Gilgamesh show up and hit something for 1 damage.
- Ark's animation is toooooooooo loooooooooooong maaaaaaan.
- Doing 99,999 every other hit sure takes the fun out of things.
Show me on the bear where the Dark Aeons touched you.
It's a good thing Yu Yevon is such a difficult fight, right?
- Look at me! I'm bursting for 99ks every twenty seconds and no one can stop me! ...unless it casts sleep or amnesia. Or you're depending on trusts to make skillchains. Or it has magic resistances, or...
why the *** can't we summon Bahamut?
I'm sure there's some "other games" in this series that came out after the ones I've referenced, but I don't think they're worth mentioning.
I don't know what the *** Egi is supposed to be, but I know I don't like it.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-02 21:26:41
*Sock Alert Sock Alert*
Didn't see a thread up here and the info on BG is all over the place so I figured I'd make a thread to summarize the NM kill strats so far for people who want to try it for themselves. Everyone is welcome to add info themselves and I'll update the OP
Albumen
Ashweed x3 + Void Grass x3 + Vermihumus + Coalition Humus
Notes:
-4x Adds spawn with the main NM
-4 More spawn at 28:00, and 4 more spawn at 26:00 for a total of 12x adds (doesn't spawn any more, may respawn if you kill them, unconfirmed)
-Adds won't hesitate to SP shortly after spawn (about 10 seconds after.) Possibly 2hs are Chainspell, Mijin Gakure, Benediction (I haven't seen a 4th one? It might be the DNC one?)
-Main NM has access to standard Korrigan moves (including Fatal Scream, Petalback Spin etc.)
-Petalback Spin causes hate reset
-Stunnable by GEO/BLM with just focus or languor.
-Main NM can do Hundred Fists (often does Terror->Hundred Fists)
-Main NM has a 5-15 second long enpetrify effect that lands semi-frequently.
Strategies
Source: Ramzus/Lyramion
The only strategies recorded thusfar have been by Lyramion/myself. I don't know the exact details of his but the underlying concept is the same so I'll just add whatever I know, he's welcome to add in points himself after he wants.
Setup: BRD/BLM GEO/BLM PLD WHM | BLM/SCH BLM/SCH BLM/SCH BLM/SCH GEO/WHM COR/WHM | SCH SCH
Buffs:
Languor, Malaise, Focus, Haste, Entrust Acumen
Tactician's Roll, Wizard's Roll, Voidstorm (II)
Part 1: Adds Spawning
BRD pops JAs before spawning it (NT, Marcato, Elemental Seal). Horde Lullaby 2 on spawn immediately before they allahu akbar you. From here on, it's basically just afk until more adds spawn. The BRD needs to pop super revit as soon as possible, and then reuse JAs at ~28:30 remaining in the fight to resleep the 4 new adds that will spawn. After that, afk again until 26:00, once all 12 have spawned, someone can wake up all the adds to wipe your ally as fast as possible.
Part 2: NM Fight
Wait for everyone to recover and for BRDs JA timers to come back up, we rotated the SCH into the BLM pt for voidstorm 2 and then moved them back out.
BRD opened with NT/Marcato/Ele Seal and pulled with Horde Lullaby II (make sure your BRD memorizes how long their Lullaby lasts with NT+Marcato and NT+Marcato+CC) then we moved the Mandragora away from all the babies and started Gravitations alternating Death in pairs. The GEO in the tank PT popped BoG Languor for now.
As soon as possible, The COR should go into the PT with the BRD and RD'd + Super Revit RD'd again to get Marc/Ele Seal/NT back up, as well as got the GEO's BoG back for another Languor. Then at some point, The tank PT GEO did bolster malaise+languor and one of the SCHs tabula rasa'd and we just Death SC'd continuously. The BRD made sure to keep track of her Lullaby timer and told me when it had <30 sec remaining, then I ele seal Breakga'd then the BRD reapplied Lullaby with NT/CC/SV/Ele Seal for an additional 6.5min for a total of 12min. At some point the COR WC'd the BRD+1st bolster to see if they'd get it back (just in case for some reason it takes more than 12 min of fighting to kill). If bolster didn't recover then our GEOs swapped PTs and continued. The GEO/BLM can stun Petalback Spin 100% of the time with just Languor or just Focus, we only got hate reset 1 time because it did it mid-cast so it got through.
Voidsnapper x3 + Ashweed x3 + Mistmelt + Scroll of Tornado
Use THF, THF, THF, THF and THF. Every other DD is an absolute waste of time. Rudra's does 20k+ easily with either SA or TA and way shorter timers.
Buffs: Chaos, Miser, Tactician, Samurai, Frailty, Fury, Wilt, DEX/Barrier
Setup: PLD/BLU WHM, SMN, GEO (WHM was dualboxed by PLD so no /smn)
GEO THF/SAM THF/SAM THF/SAM COR/SMN /SMN
I dualbox'd GEO and did wilt/frailty in the tank pt, and DEX/Fury in the melee pt. The bubbles never wore for the most part (i did switch frailties between pt a few times and changed DEX to Barrier in tank pt) but you should never have an issue with it wearing off.
We also had all 6 members of the THF pt to get both lucid wings1/2 and we timed using them around when all THFs offloaded tp, in reality I should have saved them for when I did bolster but that's just for something to consider in the future.
We had 2 COR/SMN and a SMN rotating lullaby with SMN->COR1->SMN->COR2->SMN etc as soon as timers were up after the initial spacing out of lullabies to get a good cycle going. We opted from using BSTs to kill adds and just mewing lullabied all of them, not a single TP move went off the entire 23min fight.
I should mention that all THF were basically geared from their other jobs without actually dedicated gear (they all geared it from their BLUs/NINs etc) and they all had 0 JP. So if we were to use 3x Aeonic THF with 2100 JP we could probably get the fight down to sub 15 minutes no problem.
Void Crystal x3 + Void Grass x3 + Titanite x10 + Worm Mulch
Notes:
-Absorbs damage during TP moves
-Does relatively little damage, as do adds.
-Luopans soak Gorge/Disgorge damage making it a non-issue.
-Has unique TP move called Psychosis Gorge(sp?) that is an unerasable/sacrificable impact type stat reduction.
-Absorbs magic damage after casting Fire type spells below 50%, switches to absorb Physical Damage when it starts casting Earth spells
-Spawns adds after first SC, will retaliate with Doomvoid if you repeat the same SC, need to cycle some elements (not sure total amount)
-Increasing SC level causes more adds to spawn, can cycle t1 SCs.
-Main NM and babies can all Dustvoid to fully strip tank equipment, need some sort of method of immediately getting it back on so you don't die (our PLD make an equipset and macro'd it and mashed it when it did dustvoid.)
Strategy:
Source: Lyramion, Ramzus
PT1: PLD WHM SCH GEO
PT2: SCH BLM BLM BLM GEO COR
Buffs: Wizard's Roll, Tactician's Roll, Languor, Malaise, Focus, Acumen
I followed Lyra's suggestion of doing Wind->Ice->Fire->Dark->Thunder-> but I'm not sure how much it matters? If possible, Wind->Ice->Dark would probably work the best as those produced the highest damage nukes. I had BLMs self storm on every single SC so I wouldn't have to deal with it. On the wind SC I had the other SCH SC, no one except me MB'd so I could get some super powered Helix off. Without Bolster/Temp I was landing 13k Helix, with Bolster+Soldier the highest I saw was 30k.
There is very relatively little damage dealt by the NM this entire fight, GEOs should theoretically be able to full time BoG bubbles until they wear off naturally, unless they have enough regen (not sure if it's even possible to fully negate?)
During the more important SCs (Wind/Dark) we'd spam dia on the NM to force it to use a TP move before going, just to guarantee not healing it since 3x Death was doing >200k damage total. The TP feed is incredibly slow on this NM so this is a guaranteed method of being able to avoid TP dmg absorption 100% of the time if you SC immediately after it goes.
However, below 50% when it starts absorbing damage based on whether it's casting fire/earth, it starts to do multiple TP moves in a row instead of just one, so do be careful of that. We opt'd out of using silence after the first 3 landed, since it appeared to use spells almost guaranteed after silence wore which disrupted the flow of the battle. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it casts spells every 30 seconds and whether it decides to use Fire or Earth is random? It does use the same element spell multiple times in a row, though. I didn't observe enough to see whether it occurs in phases or not.
Voidsnapper x3 + Gravewood Log x3 + Leisure Table + Trump Card Case
The hardest fight in the game. Tumult Curator might be close, but he doesn't really give anything special. Anyone who wants an aeonic weapon eventually has to face this guy, who is on another level from all of the other NMs required. Even the best geared and most coordinated groups WILL lose to this guy, multiple times, before winning once.
Everything about this is a nightmare. Schah spawns a grand total of 14 adds; 7 Bhata (pawn), 2 Ashva (knight), 2 Gaja (bishop), 2 Ratha (rook), and 1 Mantri (queen). If any Bhata lives for too long (2-3 mins), it "promotes" into another Mantri. Ashva can use Banneret Charge (sets HP to 1) from 100%, which is basically an instant loss if it hits the PLD. Gaja can use Besieger's Bane (20' Terror+Zombie+Bio) from 100%, which is, again, instant loss if it hits the PLD and WHM. Every single caturae possesses knockback TP moves, and they can go into the trees and knock the PLD out of the corner. Hate is nigh impossible to hold; they WILL eventually split off from the PLD and attack others.
There are some good sides, and some key points. Bhata has less health than the other adds, and will almost always die in one SC+MB volley. Ratha does nothing special, so it can be left alone until the two Ashva/Gaja are dealt with. Mantri has FAR more health and defenses than the other adds (letting a second Mantri spawn is basically game over), but she can't use Enthrall (charmga) until 50%. Finally, don't even think of keeping the adds alive; Schah himself takes virtually no damage until they're all dead.
With all adds dead, it becomes a race against the clock. Only Death does any reasonable damage against Schah, so as many of those need to fire off as possible (hence BLM/SCH). Be careful; we have seen Schah use Besieger's Bane, Royal Decree, and Enthrall, as well as all the other caturae TP moves. We haven't seen him use Banneret Charge, but that just might be extremely rare. This is far easier to survive than with adds up, but don't let your guard down. Slack off on damage at any point, and you very well might time out.
The Corsair was dualboxed (by me). Every other job you simply cannot dualbox, too much is required. Setup was PLD/BLU WHM SCH in tank pt, then BLM/SCH BLM/SCH SCH GEO GEO COR. 1 Idris, no mage has any Amalric+1 gear. We did get lucky on Wild Card reset this time, but we have beaten him without it.
Before you start worrying about getting clears for an aeonic weapon, ask yourself if you're ever going to be able to beat this guy...because to get one, you're going to have to. Using a brew won't count either. Up for the challenge?
Void Crystal x3 + Voidsnapper x3 + Siren's Hair + Scroll of Maiden's Virelai
Notes:
-Uses SPs in random order at 79, 59, 39, 29, 19 and 9%. At 9% it will keep using SPs over and over.
-Each SP comes with a mega range aura.
-Soul voice: 1 minute silence aura and it gains access to virelai and a charm TP move called Entice. Vex/attunement will block Entice 99% of the time, but only charm buffer can block virelai reliably. Important to note that charm buffer can be dispelled easily in this fight. We had PLD use Sent. or invincible when this aura was up, but tank party will still have to rely on healing temps if HP goes too low.
-Manafont: 1 minute MDB down aura. Laughably easy to deal with if you have vex/attunement and Aegis on PLD. This is a good period to do as much damage as you possibly can.
-Invincible: 30 second 200-300/tic dia aura. Manawall can block this damage, which leaves the rest of the mage party to heal themselves. As long as no one panics and uses cures/temps, it's not too bad to deal with.
-Heavily favors using Clarsach when someone pulls hate at a distance, usually resulting in the entire backline getting 1shot.
-It's very important to pop this at a spot where the mage party can abuse terrain due to Clarsach's range. There are a few spots that work, but we settled on the spot near warp #2.
Strategy
Source: Ejiin
Tank party: PLDx2 GEOx2 WHM. Mage party: BLMx3 SCH GEOx2.
-PLD x2 was used because it has wonky hate, similar to Seiryu mechanics, where once damage is dealt to it, it will partial reset hate on its current target and chase the person who damaged it. This can be completely negated by having a 2nd tank who tries to get hate during periods when damage is done to it. Doing this, it did not chase BLM even once the entire fight.
-WHM was pulling hate a lot and wiping the backline, so we ended up having the WHM stand with the tanks.
-GEOs were used for vex/attunement/focus/wilt and entrust haste cycle for tank party, which made Teles very manageable to deal with. Focus was so the GEOs in the tank party could land dispel. GEOs in the mage party did standard mage GEO buffs/debuffs.
-Clarsach gives it many buffs, including Attack/MAB/MDB/Meva boosts, so it's a good idea to have several people on Dispel duty.
-Magic burst Death in pairs, spacing them out appropriately to avoid magic resistance mechanic to allow for 99,999 on each death.
Void Crystal x3 + Duskcrawler x3 + Bone Chip x10 + Scarletite Ingot
Notes:
-Spawns with 2 adds, Green Naraka has random hate, Blue one usually stays glued to the tank.
-Astral Flow at around 46 and 16, seems to be a hybrid between AF and Meikyo? Will do Sakra Storm or Yama's Judgment at the end of 4 TP move and spawn 2 more adds at the end of each AF, for a maximum of 6 adds. Will spawn a Green+Blue Naraka each time
-Meikyo Shisui at 74, 49, 24%, and spams it below 10%. Will also do Sakra Storm or Yama's Judgment as its 4th TP move.
-Yama's Judgment is 5-count doom.
-Meikyo Shisui during Raksha Stance : Judgment or Illusion > Judgment or Illusion > Vengeance > Yama's Judgment
-Meikyo Shisui during Yaksha Stance : Bliss or Damnation > Bliss or Damnation > Oblivion > Sakra Storm
-CAN BE STUNNED with elemental seal (save it for the 4th tp move of SP)
-Fairly resistant to most debuffs.
-Will heavily favor Raksha Stance which gives it -50% MDT. Can supposedly be terror/DT reset proc'd by completing a SC in the middle of the animation for a stance TP move.
-Killing adds will cause him to respawn one per TP move until he reaches his current maximum add capacity.
Strategy
Source: Papesse, Ramzus, Lyramion, Geigei
PT1: PLD RUN WHM SCH SCH BRD/BLM
PT2: BLM BLM BLM BLM GEO/WHM GEO/WHM
Buffs: Focus, Haste, Malaise, Languor, Entrust Acumen, Firestorm II
Fight is very heavily terrain dependent, Warp#2 highly recommended.
Like Albumen, this fight is highly dependent on BRD sleeps.
The mages should be positioned at the top of the hill, while the PLD tanks it at the bottom of the hill with their back facing the mages, Vinipata should be on the dirt path. Knock back makes this fight a total bitch, the PLD needs to be very alert and run immediately back to Vinipata if they get knocked back before it gets repositioned closer to the mages.
Part 1: Initial Spawn + Fighting
The BRD should open with NT CC Ele seal and sleep the adds right on pop. The PLD runs the NM down the hill, positions it. As soon as positioning is good, 1 GEO should bolster Focus+Malaise while the other does BoG Languor+Haste. The first SCH can also tabula rasa and then immediately start spamming fusion while the RUN Gamb/Raykes and the BLMs MB Firaja->Fire6. This fight is highly dependent on your ability to push Vinipata down to the next set of adds spawns.
GEOs should be helping with status ailments, particularly spamming cursna on the PLD on Yama's Judgment. Global recasts on Cursna make it hard for a single WHM to consistently remove it on time while dealing with curing+other debuffs.
As you continue to MB it down, prepare yourself at approximately 50% for Astral Flow to occur, and BLMs should change off of Firaja to just single target MBs. As soon as the AF animation goes at ~46, everyone should just gather ontop of it and wipe as soon as possible, having a good Helix II MB on it shortly before 50% is indispensable as it can whittle down a good 10% while someone zombies vinipata during recovery.
Part 2: Saccing
Right before wiping, someone needs to throw a Bio II or Dia II on Vinipata just in case to prevent it from regening while zombing. We had our GEO that used bolster sac it while we all recovered. It is highly important that you wipe TOWARDS THE DIRT PATH AS LOW AS POSSIBLE and remain there while waiting for weakness to wear, otherwise a stray TP move while saccing might wipe all of you again. When ready, get buffs up again, the BRD should this time use CC + SV ontop of the usual JAs for maximum duration sleep on adds, since the goal is to (hopefully) kill it before adds wake up this time.
Part 3: Killing it
Everyone repositions again, mages should hide at the very top of the hill in the little corner to avoid TP move on pull, BRD pulls with Horde Lullaby II again with all JA/SP while PLD stands on bottom of hill ready to flash Vinipata on pull.
Repeat the same thing, the 2nd GEO and SCH should now Bolster/TR (obviously switch bubbles on GEO so that you have Bolster Malaise+Focus again) and start SCing + Firaja/Fire6 with Gambit/Rayke. The RUN should also super revit so that they can Gambit+Rayke at low % again just to force it to 0, as <10% can get messy.
The BRD also needs to super revit before 25% to have JAs ready to immediately sleep adds 5/6 when they spawn. At that point, go back to strictly single target, and throw out another Gambit+Rayke, and hope that it dies before anything wakes up. You should IDEALLY have about 15 minutes left, but you may find that to not always be the case. If you wipe at <10% (we have at least 3 times), continue saccing it until the BRDs JA timers are up, it'll be a really bad time crunch as you have probably 3 min to finish it. You'll need to watch out too because it likes to use Meikyo frequently <10%, and when you start the fight it'll open up with 4 tp moves while repositioning, so everyone needs to stay away, as it will very easily wipe you.
This fight is very very dependent on how frequently it uses Raksha Stance. We've had fights take 12 min, and fights taken 29 min entirely because it stayed in Raksha Stance for 100% of the fight.
Void Grass x3 + Ashen Crayfish x3 + Flan Meat x10 + Black Pudding
Notes:
-Arguably the easiest fight, is a complete Zerg.
-Spawns with 2 adds that cause an approximate 21'? 400 dmg Bio Aura. Killing the adds will drop the aura until new ones spawn.
-Frequently spawns new adds, at <50% it gains access to adds that give a doom aura.
-Auras can be avoided by everyone except for PLD+WHM by abusing terrain on Warp 2.
-Gains access to charm at <50%.
-Can be proc'd with SC+Fire MBs (?)
Strategy
Source: Ramzus, Lyramion.
PT1: RUN PLD/BLU WHM
PT2: BLM BLM BLM SCH GEO GEO
(can alternatively throw SCH into tank PT after storms and bring 4 BLM).
Buffs: Languor, Malaise, Acumen, Focus, entrust Haste, Firestorm II
1 BLM should use elemental seal before pop, and immediately stun it when its popped to avoid a 10 second stun from Just Desserts. The fight entirely relies on this opening stun.
Once positioned, the PLD uses appropriate /BLU spells (Jettatura, Geist Wall, Sheep Song etc.) when adds spawn to hold hate. Everyone should abuse the hill terrain to be a good 23' away from the NM and avoid aura. We had both of our GEOs Bolster + have the SCH TR + Embrava both PTs and just zerged it down with Firaja->Fire 6 MBs in under 2 min.
The PLD+WHM should use Charm Buffer before 50% (around 60 is pretty good) as it goes down pretty fast, and might use charm fairly fast. It has a fairly large range on it, as our WHM got hit by it on our first win, so assume that it'll probably be 20'.
Every time we've fought it, SC+MB proc'd it around 60% and made it take very massive damage (i.e. multiple 99,999 Fire MBs) which made it drop really fast, I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate this.
|
|
