Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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 Cerberus.Mrkillface
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2020-01-10 04:01:47
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looks like zealous snort is haste 2 (?) arciella wouldn't overwrite it at least. Seems to scale 1 minute per 1k tp ish so 3 minutes at 3k.
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By Mavrickx 2020-01-10 04:11:24
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There are some priority issues.

Bubble Curtain (MDT-50%) is overwritten by shell V (MDT-29%).
Zealous Snout's Haste (25) overwrites Haste II (30) and Koru wont even cast Haste II if you already have snout.

kishr said: »
So you can't swap timer gear for those 10 seconds(axe/pants) because of ability activation speed, then they gave merits a extra 5 seconds? so bst lost 5 seconds for sic/ready with this update?
(unless sacrifice legs during gearswap?)
Also, does the aoe effect pt members?
And is 'metallic body' spam the new invincible?

This update has potential, can't wait to get home and dust off my bst finally.


metallic body is only ~198 HP, no where near invincible. And buffs do not affect party members.
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By kishr 2020-01-10 04:37:49
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Lowering call beast to 0 like smn can would be insane for bst.
Too bad they won't do it, could load lots of pet buffs and go nuts.
In escha area can use wings to get 3ktp then call a pet then buff, hit revit, then next buff, and repeat and rush to a ??? and stomp something.
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By Vankathka 2020-01-10 04:41:25
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Overall this didn't change much, we basically gained fulltime berserk, but the innate problems are the same, our REMA options are basically garbage for DDing, Ambuscade Axe is still best for DDing.

Pets are still locked behind animations before you can use another move so its still an inferior Conduit that requires you to be in range, and of course, the moves ready so fast now you basically lose 5 seconds in any instanced fight unless you fulltime them.

Infact solo I'm not even sure if using the Sheep is even relevant as you lose the ability to do defense down/light with Decimation with Vickie.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2020-01-10 04:46:17
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Mavrickx said: »
Bubble Curtain (MDT-50%) is overwritten by shell V (MDT-29%).
Zealous Snout's Haste (25) overwrites Haste II (30) and Koru wont even cast Haste II if you already have snout.

Dang...
Double-checking the Haste values with 0 Haste/Fast Cast gear using Reraise recast timer:
No Haste - 60sec
Zealous Snort - 45sec (25%)
Haste II from Koru-Moru - 42sec (30%)

Overwriting Haste II is quite unfortunate.

Mavrickx said: »
metallic body is only ~198 HP, no where near invincible. And buffs do not affect party members.

Not that it makes a huge difference, but this Stoneskin amount might vary based on Pet:MND? I've seen as low as 188 and as high as 215 with iLvl119 HeraldHenry + Familiar Job Points.

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By kishr 2020-01-10 04:46:28
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Vankathka said: »
REMA options are basically garbage for DDing.
I like my AG guttler.
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By kishr 2020-01-10 04:59:44
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I'm reading this correct?

The following abilities of pets summoned with the job ability Call Beast have been adjusted so that there is no delay between inputting the command and activation.
Secretion / Rage / Bubble Curtain / Scissor Guard / Metallic Body / Harden Shell / Water Wall / Zealous Snort

The shortened timer is just for those abilities?
So the other moves have not been effected?

If so, then charmers merlin is obsolete.
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By Vankathka 2020-01-10 05:01:27
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The buff moves are instant, everything else was shortened to 0.25 seconds. And yes Charmer's Merlin is obsolete, and our Reward was to now fulltime an even lower level piece of gear in our Ready sets. and yes you technically can swap them in time using gearswap but even that is not assured, its just so...obnoxious everything about the changes they keep doing to BST is.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2020-01-10 05:31:10
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Even in a regular zone (like West Ronfaure) gearswap won't change equipment fast enough.



For that last Cursed Sphere I had to disable gearswap and manually equip the proper gear to get the damage output it's supposed to do.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-01-10 05:42:38
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Damn that's wild not even gearswap is fast enough.
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 Bismarck.Rwolf
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By Bismarck.Rwolf 2020-01-10 06:47:11
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Overall seems like not a good update IMO. Charmer's dependency was a quality of life that should have happened a long time ago. But honestly they just broke BST even further.

Sure, you'll get more out of Unleash where you can just not wear Desultor's but it's not worth it to me.

The buffs seemed very situational to me and learning one of the only interesting ones can't be stacked and overwritten. Terrible,
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 Sylph.Excalin
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By Sylph.Excalin 2020-01-10 06:51:36
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Even in a regular zone (like West Ronfaure) gearswap won't change equipment fast enough.



For that last Cursed Sphere I had to disable gearswap and manually equip the proper gear to get the damage output it's supposed to do.

I started using a combination of gearswap and itemset macros on SMN where the macros handled the Midcast for my BPs and gearswap handled everything else. You could do that here with windowed macros to handle the delay change I bet.
 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2020-01-10 07:11:29
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Sylph.Excalin said: »
I started using a combination of gearswap and itemset macros on SMN where the macros handled the Midcast for my BPs and gearswap handled everything else. You could do that here with windowed macros to handle the delay change I bet.

That probably works fine for regular Blood Pacts, but you know how Shock Squall is 0.5 seconds to fire off and you're lucky to swap midcast on that? This is twice as fast.
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 Shiva.Larrymc
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By Shiva.Larrymc 2020-01-10 07:13:26
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Sylph.Excalin said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Even in a regular zone (like West Ronfaure) gearswap won't change equipment fast enough.



For that last Cursed Sphere I had to disable gearswap and manually equip the proper gear to get the damage output it's supposed to do.

I started using a combination of gearswap and itemset macros on SMN where the macros handled the Midcast for my BPs and gearswap handled everything else. You could do that here with windowed macros to handle the delay change I bet.

I do not believe this is the case. I have SMN macros that can switch BP reduction gear just fine using normal FFXI macros and items sets. The BST ready commands just activate too quickly for this to work.
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By Mrxi 2020-01-10 07:15:49
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does putting the pet gear in the job ability section fix it or still needs to be mid pet skill?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2020-01-10 07:20:15
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Mrxi said: »
does putting the pet gear in the job ability section fix it or still needs to be mid pet skill?

job_precast is definitely the best spot for equipping Ready gear, but it doesn't fix the problem unfortunately.
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By Shiva.Larrymc 2020-01-10 07:21:34
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One additional comment - I was hoping that at least we could get a benefit under Unleash with the faster ready times. But this did not seem to be the case. We do not get the rapid fire "SMN BP like" behavior under unleash. I did not noticed any difference in the rate that I could fire off ready moves under unleash. There is still some type of 2-3 second gate for each move. I tested with HQ pig.

Edit - I tested again with a different pet - and the gate seems to be the animation time of the ready move being used. If the animation time is shorter, you can use the ready move faster under unleash. I tested with the tiger this time and noticed a small improvement.
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By Sylph.Excalin 2020-01-10 07:28:10
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Sylph.Excalin said: »
I started using a combination of gearswap and itemset macros on SMN where the macros handled the Midcast for my BPs and gearswap handled everything else. You could do that here with windowed macros to handle the delay change I bet.

That probably works fine for regular Blood Pacts, but you know how Shock Squall is 0.5 seconds to fire off and you're lucky to swap midcast on that? This is twice as fast.

I'll do some testing, but the macro would handle the delay instead of gearswap. I don't know how gearswap handles the whole ready move thing but I have always assumed it is waiting on server feedback to switch to midcast.

/Ja "Ready Move" <me> <---gs handles precast
Wait X <----windower macro handles delay
/equip itemset Y <-----midcast is an itemset equipped through the windowed macro, gs is blanked out for readymove midcast.
Once the move resolves aftercast from gearswap will trigger as normal.
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2020-01-10 07:29:28
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
job_precast is definitely the best spot for equipping Ready gear, but it doesn't fix the problem unfortunately.

For a double swap or just at all? Seems to me like it should at least work to put in potency gear prior to the command being issued.

Logically speaking, Gearswap can handle pre/midcast on things like Dia, or even Quick Magic procs. Pet LUAs already run into problems with latency if watching for pet actions and responding. The new activation time seems like that sort of logic is no longer viable at all, so LUAs would need to be set up entirely around master JAs.
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By Mrxi 2020-01-10 07:37:46
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thats what i do for astral conduit is put the buffactiva with registered buff id in the ja section
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2020-01-10 07:48:18
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Leviathan.Isiolia said: »
The new activation time seems like that sort of logic is no longer viable at all, so LUAs would need to be set up entirely around master JAs.

You're correct, and honestly I haven't had a pet_midcast section since 2016.
Code
February 8th, 2016
-- Moved pet_midcast rules to job_aftercast to help reduce issues due to lag or missed pet_midcast packets.

So at this point I'm prepared to put everything in the master JA activation portion and forget about double swaps, like you said.

Shiva.Larrymc said: »
Edit - I tested again with a different pet - and the gate seems to be the animation time of the ready move being used. If the animation time is shorter, you can use the ready move faster under unleash. I tested with the tiger this time and noticed a small improvement.

Yeah, seems animation delay is still the big dps killer there.
I've got some data on the delays if you want to compare various moves:
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By Phoenix.Tearxx 2020-01-10 08:03:55
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Leviathan.Isiolia said: »
The new activation time seems like that sort of logic is no longer viable at all, so LUAs would need to be set up entirely around master JAs.

You're correct, and honestly I haven't had a pet_midcast section since 2016.
Code
February 8th, 2016
-- Moved pet_midcast rules to job_aftercast to help reduce issues due to lag or missed pet_midcast packets.

So at this point I'm prepared to put everything in the master JA activation portion and forget about double swaps, like you said.

Shiva.Larrymc said: »
Edit - I tested again with a different pet - and the gate seems to be the animation time of the ready move being used. If the animation time is shorter, you can use the ready move faster under unleash. I tested with the tiger this time and noticed a small improvement.

Yeah, seems animation delay is still the big dps killer there.
I've got some data on the delays if you want to compare various moves:

So animation lock still exists and can't replace SMNs still?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2020-01-10 08:54:37
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;-; So now SE messed up swapping precast, great
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By Felgarr 2020-01-10 09:03:45
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There seems to be some traction on the official forums. Please take a moment to like this post.

As others have said, I agree that the Subtle Ready reduction nerf introduced in this update should be done away with. I think the JA activation should be consistent for all Beastmaster/pet job abilities, including Reward. (Also, the merit point categories should be updates as well. Let's get give Beast Affinity 5/5 to everyone and replace Beast Healer altogether).

Hopefully SE makes about 2-3 more tweaks to make Beastmaster great again.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/56341-January-2020-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Digest?p=623295&viewfull=1#post623295
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By Vankathka 2020-01-10 10:28:29
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As I don't see it being talked about I'm sure most know but incase not, there is a (sort of) work around for the animation lock, using a ready move, then using Fight, allows you to use another Ready move immediately, you're limited by Fights recast of 5 seconds but its fairly useful for certain things, cleaving Omen solo etc.
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 11:20:59
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this update seems like an overall nerf to bst DPS actually...

My bst will stay retired sadly. Too bad.

Rage is problematic. You are now squishier than counterstance mnk with MUCH less HP. And you dont get the counter. So 1 attack round from most NM can kill you even in full turtle set. Mobs will basically have capped attack on you. Pretty easy to pull hate off of pet with decimation or mistral now.

can burn jugs and use the crab after for 100% more defense. But then you have to burn another jug to get a DPS pet. Gets expensive fast to play bst.


Seems like Unleashed got buffed a little. Pet got a decent nerf. Master max DPS is the same with some interesting defense options.

Snort giving JA haste would have been big. but oh well


edit*** lol yeah apex mobs can 2 shot you while you are in full malignance gear when using rage. i guess /nin but that is a dangerous game. Any physical AOE that gets through will kill you.

Happens a lot. use a WS and pull hate for just a second, mob autoattacks you and you die.
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-01-10 12:19:20
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Vankathka said: »
Overall this didn't change much, we basically gained fulltime berserk, but the innate problems are the same, our REMA options are basically garbage for DDing, Ambuscade Axe is still best for DDing.

Pets are still locked behind animations before you can use another move so its still an inferior Conduit that requires you to be in range, and of course, the moves ready so fast now you basically lose 5 seconds in any instanced fight unless you fulltime them.

Infact solo I'm not even sure if using the Sheep is even relevant as you lose the ability to do defense down/light with Decimation with Vickie.

Aymur with Mistral Axe isn't awful. Having AM3, plus extra 1k TP now for your pet's buff duration, is welcome. AM3 plus Malignance set gives good multihit plus Store TP.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-01-10 12:38:14
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Vankathka said: »
Overall this didn't change much, we basically gained fulltime berserk, but the innate problems are the same, our REMA options are basically garbage for DDing, Ambuscade Axe is still best for DDing.

...

Infact solo I'm not even sure if using the Sheep is even relevant as you lose the ability to do defense down/light with Decimation with Vickie.


I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
Dolichenus is not better than Aymur or Pangu, but I would say its better than Tri-Edge. I can't say for Guttler or Farsha.
There are a few Advantages to Dolichenus:
1. using Decimation at 1000% TP as opposed to higher.
2. Reverberation on a strong PHYSICAL WS (mostly for making fragmentation with Sweeping gouge)
3. WSD bonus for longer skillchain

Number 2 is rather insignificant.
Number 1 is offset by several options:
Fencer build you get enough tp bonus that Mistral Axe and Calamity with higher damage weapons are better.
OR if dual wielding, you can use a Fernagu Offhand.

Quote:
Aymur with Mistral Axe isn't awful. Having AM3, plus extra 1k TP now for your pet's buff duration, is welcome. AM3 plus Malignance set gives good multihit plus Store TP.

Aymur Mistral Axe is not only NOT awful. Its better than Dolichenus. you just want to use tp bonus offhand or fencer build.

Aymur Aftermath is Especially much better than Dolichenus.
Also the lower Damage rating makes it weaker for all the other good weaponskills: Ruinator (weak but distotion), Mistral Axe, Calamity, Cloudpsplitter, Primal Rend



Rage Duration can be 9 minutes. Its plenty useful Solo if you don't mind spending a cheap pet. Which I wouldn't mind at all.
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-01-10 12:53:26
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Xilk, using your spreadsheet, with a few corrections and added gear, I get Dolichenus ~20% ahead of Aymur R15 with Mistral Axe and around ~25% ahead of Pangu path A, both with offhand TP bonus. Edit- haven't check Fencer build, to be fair.

I'm not saying that Ambu axe beats out Aymur overall, because the mythic has a broad set of benefits that include being the best pet physical and, now, buffing axe, but I feel like Aymur skews towards the pet boosting side more than the master melee side. AM3 maintenance is not the easiest on beastmaster either. And, just like for warrior, Doli/Decimation is easier to gear for. Doli is also an excellent offhand for Primal Rend and Cloudsplitter spam, with a huge spread of stats.

Aymur did get a boost with this update- easier to do pet buffs at higher TP, and Rage on the master means that we aren't nearly as attack starved, so we can probably drop Meg +2 gloves in favor of Totemic +3?
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-01-10 12:57:37
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Xilk, using your spreadsheet, with a few corrections and added gear, I get Dolichenus ~20% ahead of Aymur R15 with Mistral Axe and around ~25% ahead of Pangu path A, both with offhand TP bonus. Edit- haven't check Fencer build, to be fair.

I'm not saying that Ambu axe beats out Aymur overall, because the mythic has a broad set of benefits that include being the best pet physical and, now, buffing axe, but I feel like Aymur skews towards the pet boosting side more than the master melee side. AM3 maintenance is not the easiest on beastmaster either. And, just like for warrior, Doli/Decimation is easier to gear for. Doli is also an excellent offhand for Primal Rend and Cloudsplitter spam, with a huge spread of stats.

Aymur did get a boost with this update- easier to do pet buffs at higher TP, and Rage on the master means that we aren't nearly as attack starved, so we can probably drop Meg +2 gloves in favor of Totemic +3?


Then we should both go parse it.

I have all those axes. I've used them all. Dolichenus does not win.

Better yet for the short term, show me how you modified your spreadsheet. I'll make a comparison as well.

What I have so far is not even close.
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