Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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 Fairy.Trig
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By Fairy.Trig 2020-01-10 13:00:54
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So with the timing changes, does this mean are stuck with putting Dessultor Tassets in our ready (petws.midcast) sets for the time reduction to take effect?
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 13:06:42
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Asura.Sirris said: »
I get Dolichenus ~20% ahead of Aymur R15 with Mistral Axe and around ~25% ahead of Pangu path A, both with offhand TP bonus.

If you are using rage and have a cor in your party, you can use fighers roll instead of chaos with dolichenus. it puts it pretty far ahead of the other options. you get about a 90% chance of dieing though.

Spreadsheets are always a crapshoot though.
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By Vankathka 2020-01-10 13:19:39
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I think that, Xilkk wants Aymur to be good and it is, its just not good enough. Decimation at its worst with Ambuscade Axe is onpar with Mistral, and at its best far ahead of it, even some halfassed tests on Apex Mistral at 2250ish TP does 21-23k, with Aymur, My Decimations do at worst 20k, and at best 34kish the average ends up being around 26k and thats with far superior SC options, and the fact that you will need to waste time reapplying AM3, have a garbage offhand, just says, eh.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-01-10 13:31:16
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Calamity > Mistral Axe

I use fernagu Offhand.
I've spiked my Decimatiions up to 52k on apex mobs. I've only spiked my Calamity up around 44k iirc, but it averages higher than Decimation. They are close, but Calamity is better. I'm averaging more like 32k for decimation or calamity.

Last time I did this I was using arthur and the variation for calamity has more to do w/ bats doing attack down or corrosie ooze wearing off. for decimation its about multi-hit procs AND attack differences.

Even so, I tp much faster with Aymur am3. I'm not even counting pet.

My Aymur is R15, so the damage rating is just a bit better than Dolichenus. ARe you only considering 195 Damage rating?

My primal Rends are 20k~30k also depending on tp. so a little time there maybe, but spread that over 3 min, and the tp gain rate overcomes it.
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 13:40:17
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What was your party setup/buffs and what are you gearsets? Your ws average on decimation is like 5-7k lower than it should be.

Are you referring to solo content or max buffs?
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-01-10 13:47:03
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Solo apex farming max buffs from trusts.

Bst cannot get the damage from Dolichenus and Decimation that Warrior can.

Obviously. Are you really comparing to bst or war using decimation?

you want to pick apart my experience? provide a counter example.
Meaning go out, gear up and kill stuff.

keep track of the numbers.
 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-01-10 13:51:46
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NkKtsm9FKXfgiSQ-ugkm2tnBhNYMFNoB/view?usp=sharing

Here's your spreadsheet, with my changes to Decimation and gear. I still need to fix Calamity (broken?) and there's some other stuff I'd add, like higher level targets and pDL on Malignance set.

Spaitin said: »
Asura.Sirris said: »
I get Dolichenus ~20% ahead of Aymur R15 with Mistral Axe and around ~25% ahead of Pangu path A, both with offhand TP bonus.

If you are using rage and have a cor in your party, you can use fighers roll instead of chaos with dolichenus. it puts it pretty far ahead of the other options. you get about a 90% chance of dieing though.

Spreadsheets are always a crapshoot though.

I spreadsheeted it out with Fighter's Roll. Fighter's is amazing for Decimation and might actually be viable now with Rage.
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 13:53:00
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Warrior averages around 46k on decimation. So obviously not comparing.



Max buffs from trust's won't guarantee anything. Which trusts? Was qultada using fighters roll? Was he using chaos? Tons of issues.

Yes I have geared bst.

Don't be so defensive. I'm not attacking you. Trying to figure out what you mean by "better".

If only using trusts to test then the only info you are getting is "which weapons usually do well with trusts"

Each one of those weapons will want a different tp set as well. Which did you use? You positive haste was capped at all times? Soooooo many issues with just trusts.

If we don't know what sets you are using then the info is even more tricky to deal with.

Maybe your sets are non ideal. Maybe you're swaps are working right. Tons of things to consider. If you were on asura I'd bring my alts on to help you test.

It is one of the things I enjoy doing. But yeah. Your decimations are low compared to my testing. I'm assuming low attack on yours.

My in game testing loosely agrees with siri's spreadsheet.
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-01-10 13:57:25
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Also, I'm not saying that Aymur is not good. It's a great weapon. Being the best overall pet weapon and being the number two melee weapon is not bad. I certainly don't regret making mine! Now, R15'ing it is a little bit harder sell since it doesn't get pet stats at R15...
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By Vankathka 2020-01-10 14:12:25
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I think the main reason I prefer Dolichenus over Aymur strictly for meleeing is Sweeping Gouge > Decimation > Decimation more often then not, solo regardless of buffs from trusts, has about probably an 80% success rate of just flat out killing an Apex mob from 95% to dead. And for me personally once you start adding in Fighters/Chaos/Sam Roll/Songs etc, the difference just gets even more widespread, I don't doubt Xilkk with a R15 Aymur puts out good numbers, my Aymur isn't max ranked so that skews Dolichenus more in my favor.

But the main fact I was making is and perhaps I shouldn't have just said 'garbage' was, they should be better, you'll know when a DRK is using a R15 Caladbolg, with BST REMAs, its kinda like, well, thats it?
 Bahamut.Unagihito
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By Bahamut.Unagihito 2020-01-10 14:18:16
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With attack power being less of an issue now it might be better to stack MH for Decimation.

Previously it would spike higher than the Argosy+1 set, but wasn't nearly as consistent.

Something like this:
ItemSet 365339
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 15:03:29
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My set is just like yours except I use that TA ammo.and digir in off hand.with capped attack +2 neck probably wins. So 40 da and 24 ta in set. Then add fighters roll if you have it (probably will have it with qultada if solo). Decimation spam should handily beat out mistral or calamity.unless goofy buffs and no attack cap.or gimped acc. Only first hit gets acc bonus. Low acc will favor single hits at certain values. Be 80 or so undercap for example.


ItemSet 370663

this is the set i use. going full argosy is also really good. very consistent.

with mine on apex mobs last i tested it varied between 37k and 39k averages on bst. Idris geo Rostam cor x2 max bard etc. Was like 2 hours of smashing. bst is kinda just a melee atm anyway.
 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-01-10 15:18:49
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This is what I use for Decimation:

ItemSet 367166

Might swap Regal for Epona's now though.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-01-10 15:44:53
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Spaitin said: »
Don't be so defensive. I'm not attacking you. Trying to figure out what you mean by "better
Lol

Ah you are right. I am getting defensive.
My apologies.

I'll catch up and compare with the spreadsheet In a bit.

Hopefully I can test some other numbers before I have to work some more tonight.
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 15:58:57
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No problem.

But i will say this, unless you get something better than trusts, then the information is kinda useless. Trusts are just too inconsistent. if you jumped to asura I can have you buffed however you want. but transferring worlds is kinda lame.

If you want to get close to figuring out what max potential is you need guaranteed cap on attack and acc. trusts do neither. Then you are going to want ideal rolls. qultada varies between 3 rolls and therefore pretty meh for testing. I am not even sure we know what value his rolls + are.

So in short to get a test that is even remotely useful. You are going to need real characters for all buffs.

Unless your test is to see what weapon "generally works well with trusts against a specific mob." Then using trusts would be fine.

Something like GEO COR COR BARD WHM then you would probably be ideal. have chaos and hunters roll on second cor. A second geo would work too. That is how i recommend doing it. I recommend testing them with and without fighters roll as well. i am willing to bet money you will get around 37-39ksih averages with decimation. With that set up you can actually do neak and yakshi as a melee on bst. Yakshi is a bit of a pain though. averages jump up a little higher.

I could probably get like a 10 man set up to test on onchyphora for first 50%. none of the big WS SC and you can stop onchy from doing anything for first 50%.

If you are more concerned about solo content then decimation should win massively since you have better SC options and buffs for longer SC on dolichenus.
 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2020-01-10 17:58:59
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Spaitin said: »
No problem.

But i will say this, unless you get something better than trusts, then the information is kinda useless. Trusts are just too inconsistent. if you jumped to asura I can have you buffed however you want. but transferring worlds is kinda lame.

If you want to get close to figuring out what max potential is you need guaranteed cap on attack and acc. trusts do neither. Then you are going to want ideal rolls. qultada varies between 3 rolls and therefore pretty meh for testing. I am not even sure we know what value his rolls + are.

So in short to get a test that is even remotely useful. You are going to need real characters for all buffs.

Unless your test is to see what weapon "generally works well with trusts against a specific mob." Then using trusts would be fine.

Something like GEO COR COR BARD WHM then you would probably be ideal. have chaos and hunters roll on second cor. A second geo would work too. That is how i recommend doing it. I recommend testing them with and without fighters roll as well. i am willing to bet money you will get around 37-39ksih averages with decimation. With that set up you can actually do neak and yakshi as a melee on bst. Yakshi is a bit of a pain though. averages jump up a little higher.

I could probably get like a 10 man set up to test on onchyphora for first 50%. none of the big WS SC and you can stop onchy from doing anything for first 50%.

If you are more concerned about solo content then decimation should win massively since you have better SC options and buffs for longer SC on dolichenus.

If you both jump to Shiva you'll have a lot more bst's to test with. We all know Asura hates bst.

Oh, Draylo, have you tried out the new bst changes yet? :-)
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By Mavrickx 2020-01-10 18:12:31
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can someone give a detailed example of how to set up bst lua now with the recent delay adjustments?
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By Ozaii 2020-01-10 19:12:31
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Does anyone know th3 exact values of vickies zealous snorts counter rate?
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By SimonSes 2020-01-10 19:39:53
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Spaitin said: »
averages jump up a little higher.

Avg between apex mobs and escha will jump quite a lot in general, because of much higher STR in Escha.
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By Spaitin 2020-01-10 20:38:31
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SimonSes said: »
Avg between apex mobs and escha will jump quite a lot in general, because of much higher STR in Escha.


Depends on the numerical value you personally put on "little" and "lot".

Just semantics.

I personally would not call the jump "quite a lot".

But i guess you could. I could also see someone calling it a little.
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By shamgi 2020-01-10 21:19:39
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Ozaii said: »
Does anyone know th3 exact values of vickies zealous snorts counter rate?

I don't have exact numbers, but a quick test put it around 30-40%.

Quite a lot.
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By shamgi 2020-01-11 02:16:18
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BST tanking testing has begun, though I do admit to doing only the bare minimum of testing.

ItemSet 370606

I'm looking at this, with Shield Block +5 on the back, as a general piece. You hit DT cap, the body provides extra soft DT vs practically everything, and your pet can assist.

Crab puts in some work. Even in the more gimpy set I was using for this tests, I could achieve 3000 defense pretty much constantly, and then spam stoneskin every 15 seconds, which can provide an absolutely massive amount of mitigation over time. Working with a trust made it more difficult to test the magical mitigation, but given that it's a flat 50% MDT and the quite insane amount of M.Eva that the Mag set provides, I feel like against damage based magic you'll be pretty damn tanky.

Boar is a whole different beast here, because it's counter rate is far higher than I expected, which can be quite powerful against certain mob types.

Of note, now that I've been testing it, the Reprisal effect of the Adapta Shield triggers quite often, and provides a pretty substantial boost to blocking even for a BST. Note quite PLD levels, of course, but enough that it feels like reliable mitigation rather than just getting randomly lucky.

One random benefit here, I think, is that it shouldn't be too difficult to self chain darkness with the crab, and while light is possible with the boar, it's far more difficult.

I'm using Aymur here because it increases the uptime of the buffs from the pets pretty massively, which with the crab, for example, allows you more chances to put up stoneskin before needing to reapply scissor guard/bubble curtain. Less important with the boar, but still handy, and he can make better use of the AM3.

The one thing to really test is how powerful is the body's Killer Effects for overall damage taken, mitigation, and white damage is. In theory the chance to intimidate, even fairly low on NMs, can be quite powerful. Conversely, however, using the Mag body and opening up more slots could make this set far more powerful in terms of melee.

Sadly I don't have any of the Mag gear so I can't quite test this at the moment to it's full potential, but I might go around using some UNMs as tests to get some overall results per ilvl.
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By Ozaii 2020-01-11 05:15:18
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Personally I think its the raaz or nothing for tanking. Or defense wherr i am holding yhe mob. The chance to counter is like a chance to parry on run where i take 0 damage except i also get extra tp when i counter. Pair this with the sacro breast plate and if the values listed by spaitin are correct. With big pigs buffs you are rocking about a 55% chance to counter full time or other words. A 55% chance at taking 0 damage. As long as your accuracy checks right. Which is amazing to full time giving us as bst an amaxing defensive value. Full malignance and we are rocking great dt and meva and other such things. However we lack in ho and enmity tools. Sub blue or drk for those. And we pretty much are set. But arent holding hate reliably on anything important.
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By shamgi 2020-01-11 05:18:36
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Ozaii said: »
Personally I think its the raaz or nothing for tanking. Or defense wherr i am holding yhe mob. The chance to counter is like a chance to parry on run where i take 0 damage except i also get extra tp when i counter. Pair this with the sacro breast plate and if the values listed by spaitin are correct. With big pigs buffs you are rocking about a 55% chance to counter full time or other words. A 55% chance at taking 0 damage. As long as your accuracy checks right. Which is amazing to full time giving us as bst an amaxing defensive value. Full malignance and we are rocking great dt and meva and other such things. However we lack in ho and enmity tools. Sub blue or drk for those. And we pretty much are set. But arent holding hate reliably on anything important.

Sure, but that matters more against mobs where most of their damage comes from their autos.

With magic based or WS heavy mobs, the crabs going to pull out far more.

Also, I find it incredibly interesting that we get the guard buff from the boar even though it should technically do nothing.
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By Aerix 2020-01-11 05:59:31
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shamgi said: »
Also, I find it incredibly interesting that we get the guard buff from the boar even though it should technically do nothing.

As weird as it is, BST is actually on quite a few HTH weapons including Karambit from Ambu. I guess SE thinks BST/MNK is viable for something lol.

By the way, what kind of numbers can BST put out using Fernagu with R15 Aymur Primal Rend or R15 Farsha Cloudsplitter and BiS MAB gear as well as no other buffs? Obviously those WSs won't be useful everywhere, but given that an Idris GEO can nearly double magic WS damage with Malaise it might honestly perform better in party settings than Decimation/Mistral/Calamity even with Rage+Frailty because of the PDIF cap and lack of abilities and traits that jobs like WAR have. And you won't risk dying as easily from the -60% Defense.

Of course, it'd be kind of a shame to waste the buffs from your pets, but at least you aren't reliant on Charmer's Merlin anymore and you can melee to your heart's content while firing off Ready moves every 10s.
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By SimonSes 2020-01-11 07:43:13
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Aerix said: »
better in party settings than Decimation/Mistral/Calamity even with Rage+Frailty

I kinda doubt you would use Rage in party setup anyway. Most likely you would use Slug for -33% def and att AoE and other TP move that does -10%HP. Especially in something like Dynamis, where such debuffs would be OP (geomancy is nerfed there, so def down from other sources is much more valuable) and benefit every melee DD in alliance. Other option would be that Bird I guess with -25% def down and -25 MDB. That sounds very good too, but harder to apply, because its fan shaped AoE. That is theory crafting tho, because I dont play BST.
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By FaeQueenCory 2020-01-11 09:13:34
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shamgi said: »
ItemSet 370606

Crab puts in some work. Even in the more gimpy set I was using for this tests, I could achieve 3000 defense pretty much constantly, and then spam stoneskin every 15 seconds, which can provide an absolutely massive amount of mitigation over time. Working with a trust made it more difficult to test the magical mitigation, but given that it's a flat 50% MDT and the quite insane amount of M.Eva that the Mag set provides, I feel like against damage based magic you'll be pretty damn tanky.
Your listed set has 50%DT... which makes Shells (of which Bubble Curtain falls under) completely useless.

With a set like that, you're better off with the raaz as that's more damage and more magic damage mitigation as MDB isn't subject to the 50%MDT cap.

As for the empyrean body, iirc, that's -50%SDT from Vermin, Birds, Amorphs, Lizards, Aquans, Plantoids, and Beasts. (Also possibly: demons, dragons, undead, and arcanas depending on your sub.)
And SDT is multiplicative with DT, so your listed set would have -87.5%DT, which is the DT cap.
Though I could easily be misremembering the value of the body's SDT.
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By Ozaii 2020-01-11 09:35:56
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shamgi said: »
Ozaii said: »
Personally I think its the raaz or nothing for tanking. Or defense wherr i am holding yhe mob. The chance to counter is like a chance to parry on run where i take 0 damage except i also get extra tp when i counter. Pair this with the sacro breast plate and if the values listed by spaitin are correct. With big pigs buffs you are rocking about a 55% chance to counter full time or other words. A 55% chance at taking 0 damage. As long as your accuracy checks right. Which is amazing to full time giving us as bst an amaxing defensive value. Full malignance and we are rocking great dt and meva and other such things. However we lack in ho and enmity tools. Sub blue or drk for those. And we pretty much are set. But arent holding hate reliably on anything important.

Sure, but that matters more against mobs where most of their damage comes from their autos.

With magic based or WS heavy mobs, the crabs going to pull out far more.

Also, I find it incredibly interesting that we get the guard buff from the boar even though it should technically do nothing.

Good point. Do we have numbers on the pigs m.def bonus any chance?
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By SimonSes 2020-01-11 09:40:14
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FaeQueenCory said: »
As for the empyrean body, iirc, that's -50%SDT from Vermin, Birds, Amorphs, Lizards, Aquans, Plantoids, and Beasts. (Also possibly: demons, dragons, undead, and arcanas depending on your sub.)
And SDT is multiplicative with DT, so your listed set would have -87.5%DT, which is the DT cap.
Though I could easily be misremembering the value of the body's SDT.

I completely dont understand anything from this.
Why SDT? isnt body simply adds damage taken and damage dealt unique bonuses based on you killer effects?
Why 50% too >.> Bg wiki says its 50% of killer effect % and BST has like 10% in most Killer Effects? So that would mean additional 5% damage taken and damage done, not 50%.
Also even if 50%, then how you got 87.5% by multiplying 50%DT and 50%DT? It would be 75%.
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By Nariont 2020-01-11 09:40:23
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Its +25
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