Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

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Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
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 Asura.Darian
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By Asura.Darian 2018-02-13 11:27:13
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If you're going to be /blu why not have the set just to optimize it? It's not like you are losing a spell for equipping it. If you're casting at soft cap then you should never cast it anyways. So you at least give yourself a Cure3 option for mininal MP.

I was talking about testing it against Omen bosses.

In a game where people get HQ gear for 1 more Vit surely you could just make the set...or insist on not needing it and be incomplete.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-02-13 12:56:47
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tyalangan said: »
With problems like this with lower-end gear with no DT do most even use a SIR set when /blu? The set you would need to have to reach 102% would be very lacking in defensive capabilities.

Is it just weighing the balance between extra cures needed and enmity gained on multiple enemies?

I choose SIR in my /BLU AOE enmity spells knowing that my defensive capabilities will be lacking simply because I only need to get one, maybe two off and then I can go back to the tried and true Foil + JAs to keep the attention of my new harem of death.
And if I need to get the attention of that many things with a slower spell, I don't want to waste time grabbing them.

As has been mentioned here already, RUN is a job of choices. No one is wrong to approach the game's challenges a bit differently based upon their style/different experiences/different available friends etc.
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By Taint 2018-02-13 13:06:27
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How often do people use RUN/BLU? I use PLD/BLU on occasion, but with Foil and RUNs JA arsenal I've never felt the need to sub BLU.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-02-13 13:21:25
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Taint said: »
How often do people use RUN/BLU? I use PLD/BLU on occasion, but with Foil and RUNs JA arsenal I've never felt the need to sub BLU.
It's my sj of preference when I'm supposed to tank stuff that I know it's gonna be dangerous and/or I need to tag multiple targets at once and/or I know my recasts are gonna be ***.

I use /WAR if I know I'm gonna be MP starved.
I use /WHM if I know I'm gonna have to rely on self cures/erase/stuff
Other options I use are mostly for DD or hybrid situations.
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By tyalangan 2018-02-13 13:31:52
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
I only need to get one, maybe two off and then I can go back to the tried and true Foil + JAs

Okay, and I think this is where it makes sense. Put yourself on the hatelist then switch to normal. Then only need to worry about cocoon.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-02-13 13:34:59
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I mostly use it for Cocoon or if I ever think I'll need to tag multiple things (like someone shooting the wrong target on Schah). It's not so much that it's needed, but rather the benefits of other tanking subjobs are generally either marginal (/WAR's provoke is usually not a great asset and Defender is mostly worse than Cocoon. /PLD can sometimes be neat for Sentinel though) or negated (/NIN's shadows versus an AoE-heavy target).

/BLU's benefits are often oversold a bit in Ambuscade, where AoE tagging isn't needed, and Omen, where if you have someone sleeping, it isn't needed for gaining hate on cleave targets.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-02-13 13:58:59
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/PLD is my go-to for Ambuscade. It is quite incredible.
 Sylph.Dravidian
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By Sylph.Dravidian 2018-02-13 14:12:16
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I’m either /blu or /sam. I do have a Idris geo following me around though. I’ve been debating upgrading Epeo lately and holding hate through DPS. One of these ambuscade s I found more success being in a hybrid set and spamming dimidiation than I did spamming foil and flash.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-02-13 14:38:50
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
/PLD is my go-to for Ambuscade. It is quite incredible.
How so? I'm really not seeing much benefit to subbing PLD. You get, what.. Cure III, spell-wise? JA wise you're pretty much just looking at sentinel and a really gimp cover. From traits, auto-refresh 1? Not a big deal.

If I'm going full turtle or just holding adds, it's hands down /BLU for cocoon. If I'm in a position to help with DPS and being buffed for such, I'd just go with a DD sub like /SAM, or even /DRK for a mix of DPS and enmity actions.

What's the selling point of /PLD for you?
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-02-13 15:04:22
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Sentinel can be nice for an initial hate spike, especially since the fights are often so short.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-02-13 15:28:43
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If there's one thing RUN doesn't have issues with, it's enmity generation. Especially if you're in range to AoE valiance on the whole party at the start(and if you have Epeolatry, AoE Liement, then Vall as it wears.) I really don't see Sentinel being needed by any well equipped RUN for its enmity+ properties. They should be entirely capable of spiking enmity very high at the start in any case. And other subs offer full-time benefits rather than a one-off advantage.

If the mobs are dying that fast.. it's either a melee zerg or an MB setup. For the latter, Magic bursts generate very little enmity. keeping hate off Magic Bursts should never be an issue. In the case of the former, the RUN should be DD'ing as well. And provided you're getting the same buffs and don't suck keeping hate shouldn't be an issue.

For ambuscade specifically, I could see using Sentinel as both an enmity spike to plant adds on you, as well as a mini invincible to protect you while you position the adds. But I hardly think it's necessary, and RUN is tough enough that dying while trying to get adds settled doesn't really happen(at least not to me.) I don't see this outweighing the benefits of other subs.
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 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2018-02-13 16:13:19
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Pretty much Sentinel and the ability to Cure others if a Sleepga-thing is in play in the given month's Ambuscade. I think I've used Cover a few times one month, but I don't even know which it was.
I haven't found a need for Cocoon in Ambuscade, which it and Healing Breeze are the only benefits to /BLU, since AOE hate spells are not necessary. Also, it has seemed to me that silence(-ga) has been more common than Amnesia.

Typical opening to an Ambuscade battle:
I'll advance towards the target(s), cast Foil, retreat back to the party and the corner, Valiance/All for One/Liement on the party as they run off to wherever they are going, Sentinel to get things lined up however I want them to be, Battuta after that and then Foil, JA and laugh as the Hallmarks roll in.
For more hectic runs, if there is a COR (when isn't there a COR?) said COR and the GEO and/or BRD can all get a little close and Random Deal for resets.

Now, certainly, Ambuscade can be tanked in probably any subjob.
But RUN/PLD has been my catch-all for months, regardless of the mobs or gimmicks involved. In terms of holding hate and having a fantastic and consistent start to a battle, it can't be beat.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-02-13 16:23:48
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
/PLD is my go-to for Ambuscade. It is quite incredible.
How so? I'm really not seeing much benefit to subbing PLD. You get, what.. Cure III, spell-wise? JA wise you're pretty much just looking at sentinel and a really gimp cover. From traits, auto-refresh 1? Not a big deal.

If I'm going full turtle or just holding adds, it's hands down /BLU for cocoon. If I'm in a position to help with DPS and being buffed for such, I'd just go with a DD sub like /SAM, or even /DRK for a mix of DPS and enmity actions.

What's the selling point of /PLD for you?

/PLD maybe for Sentinel's enmity bonus, but still it's not much compared to what something like /DRK brings. SE / LR also spike large enmity along with Stun / Weapon Bash. Maybe Undead Killer / Holy Circle???
 Asura.Darian
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By Asura.Darian 2018-02-13 19:07:27
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Looks like the equations online are off...

 Siren.Attaxia
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By Siren.Attaxia 2018-02-13 19:13:29
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I was using RUN/PLD for last month's Ambu, it fit pretty well; Sentinel doubles up nicely as a strong hate and dmg reduction tool particularly when you are unable to funnel the mobs in front of you to parry, this also left Foil available for grabbing Wyverns when they spawn a few seconds later. Cover countered the random hate target ***the PLD mob did. Having two different timers for powerful dmg reduction JA for Hundred fists was a nice bonus too. Cures are not completely terrible if you have a set.
 Bismarck.Zuidar
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2018-02-13 19:16:11
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Asura.Darian said: »
Looks like the equations online are off...

what's up doc :3
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By geigei 2018-02-16 01:11:38
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If you're having problems holding hate as run w/o sj... you're doing it wrong.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-16 09:28:39
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Is Dimidiation very useful other than for activating Epeolatry AM3, or does Resolution nearly always beat it? It doesn't even have unique SC properties.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2018-02-16 10:01:49
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If you're using Epeo yes it's good and often beats Reso. It's not uncommon to do 20k+ with it, I even killed Ou once with a 69k light from a Dimidiation (with no melee buffs whatsoever).
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-02-16 10:08:42
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Well. Dimi>Dimi does light, and Epeo Reso>reso does nada. So if you're in a situation where you can self SC(meaning no one else is interrupting your SC) there's potentially significant advantage to using Dimidiation. Depending, of course, on the dmg gap between your Reso and Dimi.

2 ws vs 2 ws and a mirrored dmg SC. If I'm not being completely math stupid atm I think that means that your dimidiations could be doing 67% of the dmg that your Reso's do and you'd still be breaking even DMG wise. Assuming the light dmg mirrors the closing ws. Mob resistance could push this up or down.

That said, I don't have my spreadsheet handy, and I really don't recall the dmg gap between the two, Just that there is one. I don't think it's a huge gap though. especially if you aren't super buffed. Reso suffers from an attack penalty, and RUN already has crappy attack. Might dig out the spreadsheet and look into it more.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2018-02-16 12:37:51
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Yeah there are situations where Dimi won't be competitive with Reso, and situations where they're very similar in damage, not counting skillchain.

When I was doing the Unafraid of the Dark master trial, I used Lionheart on the 3 beastmen (mainly because Epeo required 1 more hit in my TP build than Lionheart) but on Shadow Lord himself I dabbled with both Epeo+Dimi and Lion+Reso because the extra PDT was rather useful (and I was doing lights with myself or with CDC so Epeo+Reso wasn't an option).

I found that against Shadow Lord, the damage per WS was similar, even with songs + rolls + bubbles, so I ended up using Epeo+Dimi. Both were doing right around 20-25k average. (Disclaimer: My WS sets are good but not great. YMMV.)
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-18 21:55:32
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What's the best Windower addon/plugin to help keep track of all the JA and Spell durations/cooldowns?
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By Shiva.Berzerk 2018-02-18 23:44:21
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Asura.Geriond said: »
What's the best Windower addon/plugin to help keep track of all the JA and Spell durations/cooldowns?

Timers plugin
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-19 12:18:09
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Thank you; do you happen to know of a mini-guide for it that tells you what each of the settings does, and how to format additions in the Timers.xml page?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-02-19 12:24:19
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There's some information in this thread.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-02-20 19:03:39
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Would anyone happen to know if there's a semi up to date RUN DPS spreadsheet floating around somewhere?
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By Shiva.Berzerk 2018-02-20 19:25:34
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Thank you; do you happen to know of a mini-guide for it that tells you what each of the settings does, and how to format additions in the Timers.xml page?

All I've done with it is move position and turn off certain timers, not sure about anything else it's capable of. The windower dev wiki might have some helpful information regarding that.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-02-20 20:32:49
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Asura.Geriond said: »
Would anyone happen to know if there's a semi up to date RUN DPS spreadsheet floating around somewhere?
I have my RUN sim one, I was actually in the middle of adding some things to it, though. Like GEO spells, Vorseals, and a few sub job abilities to toggle on/off.

Edit: Done with most of that. Just get the run.exe and the run_equip.txt and make sure it's in the same folder as the exe. I still have other things to add eventually, of course.

https://github.com/CaseyMakes/Simulations
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-02-21 07:35:48
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Added a few example pieces to the run_equip.txt if you wanted to add your own gear. It also reminds me I need to add ayanmo set bonuses.
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