Verethragna are as good as people are saying.
@Buukki
IiPunch - Monk Guide
iiPunch - Monk Guide
I think Shijin Spiral is pure garbage. Granted most of H2H WS sucks so maybe it looks less bad than it would on another job lol.
It should, to say the least, TP transfer to begin with.
It should, to say the least, TP transfer to begin with.
Don't knock Shijin spiral its a vital part of the Subtle Blow + Chi Blast + Plague strat.
Speaking of H2H WS. I don't see how VS is the strongest(excluding Vere). Is SC damage being factored in? I would think in a fully buffed situation that RF would come out on top or a zerg wouldn't TK win?
Impetus and the ACC buff are what allow it to be so good. Capping crit/crit damage was a huge buff to VS.
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eliroo said: »
Don't knock Shijin spiral its a vital part of the Subtle Blow + Chi Blast + Plague strat.
Don't know if you're joking or not but Shijin spiral is a max of 40TP plague TOTAL. Has to be re-applied every15-24 seconds. It's a huge nothing-burger.
As far as Verethragna, I guess I'm being biased to Spharai cuz it's R15 and I would hope it's not 100% useless when I r15 empy lol. Im sure its a wrecking ball
Asura.Topace said: »
Speaking of H2H WS. I don't see how VS is the strongest(excluding Vere). Is SC damage being factored in? I would think in a fully buffed situation that RF would come out on top or a zerg wouldn't TK win?
VS is a bit stronger than ascetic, and under impetus can spike really well at just 1k TP. RF you really want at least 2k, and VS has light property for easy SCs, and can solo 3 step double light with VS > ascet > VS. Ascetic is also crit based so it fits really well with VS and impetus.
RF is just your best WS at high TP, especially if you can close an SC someone else will continue off of.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
eliroo said: »
Don't knock Shijin spiral its a vital part of the Subtle Blow + Chi Blast + Plague strat.
Don't know if you're joking or not but Shijin spiral is a max of 40TP plague TOTAL. Has to be re-applied every15-24 seconds. It's a huge nothing-burger.
As far as Verethragna, I guess I'm being biased to Spharai cuz it's R15 and I would hope it's not 100% useless when I r15 empy lol. Im sure its a wrecking ball
Spharai is bis counter weapon, so even if vere is better in damage situations, spharai would be bis for when youre taking hits.
Ascetic is pure ***. Its only decent with am3 and mythic because of both 50% bonus and multihit proc increasing the damage by a lot. You shouldnt use it at all. Also in general when you do 3 step skillchain, whats the point of putting weaker WS as second? It should go as first, so ascetic>vs>vs but instead of ascetic, you should use shijin. Its also bad, but it has a nice effect and if you keep skillchainig like this, you can keep plague on.
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
spharai would be bis for when youre taking hits.
As much as I want to love Spharai the Su5 weapon looks pretty amazing for when you are taking hits, comparatively.
Quote:
Don't know if you're joking or not but Shijin spiral is a max of 40TP plague TOTAL. Has to be re-applied every15-24 seconds. It's a huge nothing-burger.
Yesh I was memeing
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Don't know if you're joking or not but Shijin spiral is a max of 40TP plague TOTAL. Has to be re-applied every15-24 seconds. It's a huge nothing-burger.
I don't believe this is true and thank you for the opportunity to bring this up. BG Wiki says 25-40 tp, but the testing thread references using the weapon skill at 100 TP and 300 TP. The page hasn't been updated since we went to the thousands place, so I believe it's safe to say Shijin Spiral's plague is more likely 250-400 TP.
For reference, the testing post:
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4919221&viewfull=1#post4919221
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
eliroo said: »
Don't knock Shijin spiral its a vital part of the Subtle Blow + Chi Blast + Plague strat.
Don't know if you're joking or not but Shijin spiral is a max of 40TP plague TOTAL. Has to be re-applied every15-24 seconds. It's a huge nothing-burger.
As far as Verethragna, I guess I'm being biased to Spharai cuz it's R15 and I would hope it's not 100% useless when I r15 empy lol. Im sure its a wrecking ball
I have R14 Spharai, and R15 Vere. I dont touch relic anymore it's that great. Although final heaven was doing amazing number. Would be fun to tank/zerg with them though. Just hard to get people to do things when its "let's test monk" on things like omen where their canteen could be wasted lol.
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That would be great if it was more than what BG lists it at. I use it anyways just because. Shouldn't be hard to test in ballista on an invincible pld with capped TP
SimonSes said: »
Ascetic is pure ***. Its only decent with am3 and mythic because of both 50% bonus and multihit proc increasing the damage by a lot. You shouldnt use it at all. Also in general when you do 3 step skillchain, whats the point of putting weaker WS as second? It should go as first, so ascetic>vs>vs but instead of ascetic, you should use shijin. Its also bad, but it has a nice effect and if you keep skillchainig like this, you can keep plague on.
Ascetic is the same thing as VS, just 1 hit instead of 4, and a slightly higher chance to crit. The only way it can be bad is if VS is also bad.
lol wat
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Ascetic is the same thing as VS, just 1 hit instead of 4, and a slightly higher chance to crit. The only way it can be bad is if VS is also bad.
Someone ban this guy for trolling please
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SimonSes said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Ascetic is the same thing as VS, just 1 hit instead of 4, and a slightly higher chance to crit. The only way it can be bad is if VS is also bad.
Someone ban this guy for trolling please
Its literally a 1 hit VS. unless you have mythic/empy the damage difference isnt going to be super high, especially given most of a WSs damage is in the first hit.
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
SimonSes said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Ascetic is the same thing as VS, just 1 hit instead of 4, and a slightly higher chance to crit. The only way it can be bad is if VS is also bad.
Someone ban this guy for trolling please
Its literally a 1 hit VS. unless you have mythic/empy the damage difference isnt going to be super high, especially given most of a WSs damage is in the first hit.
You knowledge about this game is inversely proportional to your confidence while writing this crap.
1. There is no such thing like general "most damage is on first hit". There are WSs that has 13fTP on first hit, there are WSs that has 1fTP on first hit (Ascetic for example) and there are WSs that has less than 1.0 fTP on First hit and actually first hit is weaker than second (Insurgency at low TP for example).
2. Ascetic'c Fury is 2hit WS. Both having 1.0 fTP (2.0 total). Victory Smite is 4 hit WS with 2.25fTP on first hit and 1.0 ftp on next hits (5.25 total). Ascetic Fury will on avg do less than 50% of Vsmite damage.
Simon... we're not doing this again. Block or ban this troll and move on.
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Ascetics Fury is two hits? Someone should update the Wiki because all information given would lead you to assume its 1 hit. Which even if you just look at what we have on the wiki You'd be able to see that AF is much, much weaker than VS.
1 hit + off fist, all multi hit h2h ws count both fists in the desc, but 1 hits do not
Oh ok, I honestly didn't know that. But the same is true for DWing I believe so that makes sense
Nah its only h2h as you cant say use a fist+shield and ws, but you can wiyh a dagger or katana so whatever katana desc is, just add 1 for off-hand
Just read the game description. H2H WS were adjusted a while ago to account for the "off-hand hit". All "1" hits are 2 now.
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SimonSes said: »
You knowledge about this game is inversely proportional to your confidence while writing this crap.
1. There is no such thing like general "most damage is on first hit". There are WSs that has 13fTP on first hit, there are WSs that has 1fTP on first hit (Ascetic for example) and there are WSs that has less than 1.0 fTP on First hit and actually first hit is weaker than second (Insurgency at low TP for example).
2. Ascetic'c Fury is 2hit WS. Both having 1.0 fTP (2.0 total). Victory Smite is 4 hit WS with 2.25fTP on first hit and 1.0 ftp on next hits (5.25 total). Ascetic Fury will on avg do less than 50% of Vsmite damage.
Given ftp doesnt transfer across hits and ascetics has an additional 50% vit, which is monks highest stat, at a loss of only 30% str mod, it wouldnt lose out on nearly as much damage as youre inferring.
In-game descriptions were updated ~2 years ago I believe to include the off-fist.
Even if you assume R15 for both (which favors Ascetic's damage but forces you to use a worse weapon overall), VS is still a good bit stronger on average unless you're extremely underbuffed.
Even if you assume R15 for both (which favors Ascetic's damage but forces you to use a worse weapon overall), VS is still a good bit stronger on average unless you're extremely underbuffed.
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So you WS naked?
In WS gear you will have over 400 STR, while only like 240VIT. 30% from over 400 is more than 50% from 240. EDIT: Over 400 with Verethraga. Probably around 340 without it, so assuming we are not using Veret, but something nautral like Spharai, then 50%VIT will beat 30%STR, but it doesn't change things much. Still getting VS avg 90% stronger than Ascetic.
Also what Im saying comes from calculations, not gut feelings. Provide your own calculations or stop trolling.
In WS gear you will have over 400 STR, while only like 240VIT. 30% from over 400 is more than 50% from 240. EDIT: Over 400 with Verethraga. Probably around 340 without it, so assuming we are not using Veret, but something nautral like Spharai, then 50%VIT will beat 30%STR, but it doesn't change things much. Still getting VS avg 90% stronger than Ascetic.
Also what Im saying comes from calculations, not gut feelings. Provide your own calculations or stop trolling.
SimonSes said: »
So you WS naked?
In WS gear you will have over 400 STR, while only like 240VIT. 30% from over 400 is more than 50% from 240.
Also what Im saying comes from calculations, not gut feelings. Provide your own calculations or stop trolling.
In WS gear you will have over 400 STR, while only like 240VIT. 30% from over 400 is more than 50% from 240.
Also what Im saying comes from calculations, not gut feelings. Provide your own calculations or stop trolling.
Youll have more than just 240 vit. Given its your highest innate stat and gear comes with vit as well, esp monk specific gear.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Just read the game description. H2H WS were adjusted a while ago to account for the "off-hand hit". All "1" hits are 2 now.
Oh i never noticed, thanks
240 VIT sounds about right to me, and might even be a slight overestimation.
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