IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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By fonewear 2018-10-18 08:32:50
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They key to monk being great is kick attacks...yes we did it !
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 07:31:16
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Cant find that info. Is "Counter" Attack on AF+3 legs and Relic+3 feet:
a) damage additive to weapon and h2h damage?
b) multiplier?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 08:18:57
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Since I can't send private messages (not sure if my access is disabled or it's broken). To the guy who asked me where his sets were located:


Also, https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Hes._Gaiters_%2B3 page says the bonus is just "Counter: damage +24, so it's probably just an additive. No description on Anchorite+3, but same terminology so assumed to be the same. +44 damage during counters for both pieces.
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 08:39:05
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Ruaumoko said: »
ItemSet 361864

So I'm really aiming for something like that.

Best get working on Spharai then.

37% from gifts/merits.
40% from gear.
Subtle Blow capped from Spharai AM and the Adhemar Bonnet +1.

Isn't counter rate from gifts/merits 27%? bg wiki shows 22% with final gift and merits add another 5%. Did you add 10% from gifts on top of 22% that include gifts already?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 09:04:07
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Yes his math is off.

Counter base: 12%
Full JP Gifts: 10%
Merits: 5%
--------------
27% total

Spharai: 14%
Cape: 10%
Earring: 3%
Body: 5%
Legs: 6%
Ammo: 2%
------------
67% total after gear

So he's off a bit to cap it. The set I previously posted brings you a lot closer, but you sacrifice dps for it.

ItemSet 360121

Set brings you to 73% and gives you 41% PDT. Monk can't really do both with Spharai (dps + tank), you kind of have to choose. The AM definitely helps you bridge the two, but Monk is already so strong, if it were tanking/dps for hate, i'd just fill the rest of the slots with DT. Damage Mitigation is the point of the set anyways. Spharai counters like a monster in this set, with or without counterstance. It's not uncommon for me to hold 3-5 monsters all facing close to the front and i hit them all for several counters. By the time I'm ready to kill them, they have half of their HP already gone. It's a good tanking weapon, if you're able to mitigate tp spam and keep the target locked onto you.
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By Odin.Horu 2018-10-19 10:18:37
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with no dmg penalty, you'd take hits like they were minimal dmg when they go thru
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 10:33:59
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@Buukki Idk, this set looks like it has shitty accuracy which would be very bad for counter. Sure you can counter trash with it, but I don't see it would have accuracy capped vs anything more serious. I would rather go with Rau set but I would switch epona do D ring. Just wanted to point out that he made a rather huge mistake on how much counter he has.
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By Odin.Horu 2018-10-19 10:51:32
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if you were serious tanking something strong, you'd have buffs to cap acc?
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 11:13:43
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Odin.Horu said: »
if you were serious tanking something strong, you'd have buffs to cap acc?

Switching all songs to madrigals just to cap accuracy on MNK would be imo very counterproductive. This set is VERY low on accuracy. Not sure if it's even above 1000 before buffs. It probably is but barely.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 11:21:43
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Ask yourself: What monster would you be fighting, where you would actually want Monk to tank, where he would have issues hitting the monster in a counter(dt) set where he wasn't going to be getting HM and eating sushi? That scenario does not exist.

SimonSes said: »
This set is VERY low on accuracy. Not sure if it's even above 1000 before buffs.

This statement is flat out ***. I use this all the time on Omen bosses and my accuracy is no problem. I'll check when I get home, but I'm almost positive im within the 1180~1200+ range with sushi or whatever. The set has +165 accuracy from gear, not even counting any of the dex augments on Rao Hands (path B) or from Segomo's Mantle. If the set I posted "barely" hits 1000, then Rua's set barely hits 1080, because that's about how much acc difference there is between the two sets. Even 1080 is too low for Omen bosses (which is probably the only real content I could see you using it for). If we're talking Gin/Kyou, you'll definitely need buffs anyways to get to a good acc amount, so you'll require madrigals or torpor regardless.

You can drop Loricate+1 for Nodowa+2 (I use Nodowa in every set, so I would make that one change because of the KA/DEX/ACC benefits), but the acc point you brought up is literally not an issue. I would not have posted this set if it doesn't work. Granted, I have all of the accuracy gifts, and my melee mantle is dex/acc/counter.
 
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By 2018-10-19 12:00:32
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 12:24:09
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I hate the question "where would you use something". It's a really stupid idea that you can only use some jobs in content when you will benefit from using them over something else. If someone is career monk and have nice friends, he will be using MNK wherever he likes and will try to be optimal in all scenarios.

Master Spharai MNK naked with just a weapon has around 750 acc. This set provides around 293 acc, so you have around 1043 accuracy with it. That's too low imo.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 12:38:44
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SimonSes said: »
If someone is career monk and have nice friends, he will be using MNK wherever he likes and will try to be optimal in all scenarios.

Then if that's true they'd be willing to give you the necessary accuracy buffs to make it work. Situational is situational, you work around it regardless. Anyways, with food and boost dex you're already at a decent amount of accuracy. Throw in marcato hm and you're golden. Your accuracy isn't nearly as bad as you'd make it seem. If you're not getting buffs, the obvious solution would be to add more accuracy for counter pieces.
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 12:49:10
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
If someone is career monk and have nice friends, he will be using MNK wherever he likes and will try to be optimal in all scenarios.

Then if that's true they'd be willing to give you the necessary accuracy buffs to make it work. Situational is situational, you work around it regardless. Anyways, with food and boost dex you're already at a decent amount of accuracy. Throw in marcato hm and you're golden. Your accuracy isn't nearly as bad as you'd make it seem. If you're not getting buffs, the obvious solution would be to add more accuracy for counter pieces.

1043 before buffs is way to low for something like wave 2 or 3 dynamis for example. You are not alone in party. None will cut the buffs to need of one DD. There was similar discussion with Saevel in December 2016 when he was trying to poitnt out that there are some minimal acc levels that you should aim for when doing end game content and I support that. You dont add madrigal that wont benefit 2 other DDs to let MNK cap acc in counter set that he would use randomly when gets hate. You try to keep your acc in counter set around the minimal value to cap accuracy with optimal DD buffs in your party.

Also DirectX just pointed out a really easy upgrade to your set without loosing anything beside imo pointless HP+ (you will lose it anyway when you WS)
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By Odin.Horu 2018-10-19 14:02:14
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I'v personally got a +5 counter for herc head albeit lacks much acc, if your willing to put fern/DM into it, you could get 3-4 DT or 4-5 counter with 20-40+ acc.

Also, ease up SimonSes, Buukki did say it was situational.
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By Leviathan.Andret 2018-10-19 14:05:41
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However, would anyone use a counter set for hybrid set? Since, Simon is talking about dynamis wave 2/3 then he is probably thinking this as being a hybrid acc set?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 14:06:48
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You're kidding, right? Monk isn't stealing hate in any epic proportions in "Wave 2 or 3". The best you can hope for is an Omen Tanking setup, which is exactly what Rua mainly uses MNK for (Note he called the set "Counter Tank", mine is "MNK Tank"). You're reaching when you indicate the set could be used for something like Wave3 dynamis, when it's clearly not and you know this. A monk who "randomly takes hate" for a few seconds hardly gets a ton of use out of this kind of set anyhow. That's not the context, because your accuracy would still be too low to work in Wave2/3 without the appropriate buffs anyways. We're specifically talking about a scenario where the Monk would be the tank. Those situations are few and far in between. In the set I posted, it accounts for a good bit of DT, which is still necessary in a Monk Tanking set.

If you're building an "oshit" counter set to save you from a few swings of Hundred Fists in Dynamis, you'd still want DT anyways because you're less likely to counter everything thrown at you. But you'd definitely want high counter, DT, and some modest accuracy, I agree there. You're never going to get a really high acc counter/dt build anyways, since most of the gear doesn't lend itself to that. So you sacrifice DT for accuracy and vice versa. I don't truthfully believe either set is really that great, since MNK can tank a little bit, but not that great.

Oh, and the herc hands one is just as annoying. Trying to get high acc with an off-path augment from any stone. It's probably just easier to drop 10DT and add 50 accuracy or whatever.
 
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By 2018-10-19 14:12:49
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-10-19 14:17:01
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throw enough stones at it and you might get it, maybe a few thousan......hundred thousand stones will do. I know i threw a few hundred just to get a +5 counter with ***acc
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By Leviathan.Andret 2018-10-19 14:21:45
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Wouldn't AF+3 feet a better choice if going for a bit more accuracy?

Sure you loose out on the counter damages but get a bit more accuracy due to bonuses.
 
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By 2018-10-19 14:26:06
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 14:30:26
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For me more relevant Omen scenario when I would use counter set is actually /thf with trusts farming Swart Detrius while getting cards for monk.

I haven't used mnk for T3 but that's actually a good topic. How would you use MNK in wave3? Would you go /drg or /nin and act like other DDs, or rather go /war and take advantage of naturally high HP + Mantra and try to be some kind of DD tank that choose target to kill, voke and tank for several seconds before its dead, or maybe just fight completely separate target solo on side and take advantage of counter and subtle blow? like maybe solo fight WAR mobs to minimize Fell cleave. I honestly don't know, but I think that thinking out of the box and trying to take advantage of strong sides of the job when you are already there, could be more beneficial, than simply acting like another DD. Maybe I'm wrong tho.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 14:33:47
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Leviathan.Andret said: »
However, would anyone use a counter set for hybrid set? Since, Simon is talking about dynamis wave 2/3 then he is probably thinking this as being a hybrid acc set?

Hybrid sets for MNK is basically full Kendatsuba+1, swap in Ashera if you have it.

DirectX said: »
Yeah but Rua only uses MNK for Kin for fun

That's the point and exactly why he posted it. Trust me, the accuracy from his set is still too low for dynamis wave 2/3, so even that's not a practical scenario for that set. It's clearly a high counter~hybrid TP set. I don't see that working for wave2 or 3
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 14:35:59
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SimonSes said: »
For me more relevant Omen scenario when I would use counter set is actually /thf with trusts farming Swart Detrius while getting cards for monk.

?? Explain how this would work? Counter doesn't put you on the hate list, so how is this beneficial?
 
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By 2018-10-19 14:36:55
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 14:43:05
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
For me more relevant Omen scenario when I would use counter set is actually /thf with trusts farming Swart Detrius while getting cards for monk.

?? Explain how this would work? Counter doesn't put you on the hate list, so how is this beneficial?

Are you quoted, what you wanted to quote? :)
"/thf with trusts" is rather self explanatory, but in case it's not, I meant solo with trusts, so taking hate wouldn't be a problem :)
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 14:43:13
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On Wave 3 I have generally fought a monster solo as DRK, but usually his hate is plastered on the tank so you're just wailing away. With 5kHP, you're probably good to solo something without much harm. Monk would probably be fine with Subtle Blow.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 14:45:31
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SimonSes said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
For me more relevant Omen scenario when I would use counter set is actually /thf with trusts farming Swart Detrius while getting cards for monk.

?? Explain how this would work? Counter doesn't put you on the hate list, so how is this beneficial?

Are you quoted, what you wanted to quote? :)
"/thf with trusts" is rather self explanatory, but in case it's not, I meant solo with trusts, so taking hate wouldn't be a problem :)

Oh...That's exactly where a low accuracy counter set would thrive.........

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It's not uncommon for me to hold 3-5 monsters all facing close to the front and i hit them all for several counters. By the time I'm ready to kill them, they have half of their HP already gone
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By SimonSes 2018-10-19 15:03:02
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Oh...That's exactly where a low accuracy counter set would thrive.........

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It's not uncommon for me to hold 3-5 monsters all facing close to the front and i hit them all for several counters. By the time I'm ready to kill them, they have half of their HP already gone

Have you tried it solo tho? Or you talking about doing that while going in party for the boss, so you would have HM at least beside sushi? Also, I wouldn't risk going against more than 2 mobs with trust WHM anyway, so my hybrid counter set for such solo farming would require to have some offensive power too, which again is closer to Rua set.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-19 15:15:54
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I do (did) this every night on Monk for a month straight when I needed cards for Monk Legs. Solo Omen card runs and swart farming. I have been explaining this to everybody about how it's done.

With the set I posted, I use sylvie, Qultada, KoH, Joachim, Cherukuku, and I rotate a support trust to help me hit MB/Cure 500 x10. I can safely tank about 4 monsters on me with a counter/dt build up, unless it's something like Mandy's then I could potentially die from all of their attacks. Generally I try to fight one at a time, but Monk is the one job that can handle a lot of links without too much worry, even solo.

Sweetwaters have no more than 15-16k HP, and Monk already hits them like a truck. A few rounds of 3-4 attacks kills a sweetwater very quickly, and with a Counter set, you're nearly invincible unless you get unlucky or they move to the sides. You can drop that set and use counterstance if you're feeling risky, but I only do that when I have only a few slivers of life and MP is down, and no amount of DT would save me anyhow. I have been using this exact set (minus probably changing out Body for ashera and using +2 legs instead of +3) the entire time I've been soloing cards on monk, and I'm telling you that it works. I would not have bothered to share the set if it was missing every counter.

Spharai is insanely good for soloing, and counter build just makes it even better.
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