IiPunch - Monk Guide

This will be savaels answer. If the cor fought, sam/run would lose nothing, but gain kill speed. the mnk/nin would see their tp moves come down to sam/run level. Or something to that effect. and since he has me blocked he can't see that I said it.

"Sam fight should've been faster"

Video makes a world of difference I guess.

Video makes the only difference. Why I suggested it.

I wonder if people are considering that Ruaumoko was presenting testing that has been done, So people can have more information rather than just taking one thing as the only answer since no direct testing or visual facts have been put forward in concern to this matter.

There are many possible ways to do fights, the cor could have dps'd, the brd could have dps'd, hell, with the right gear, the whm and geo could have dps'd too and did a full powered attack which has the possibility as long as everyone can recover from the mobs specific WSs fast, however that wasn't the point, it was based on the useage of the monster's WSs and the reduction of said WSs by having high subtle blow thus lowering the useage of monster WSs for small groups.

While he did state his own personal opinions on how to improve monk, (Taking in the fact I'm a supporter of monk) I actually disaggree with some of it and prefer other improvements, thats our opinions, thats not something you have to take as the new meta,law, w/e, take it however you like.

But atleast accept the fact the base information that Ruaumoko has presented. it doesn't remove the meta, it doesn't change the meta, it simply offers another path for those who wish to do it since its viable.

There was a time bst was the new meta in delve (Till they nerfed it)and people didn't want to do other ways (Atleast on Odin it was) because it was one of the safest, easiest and easily geared options.
Some still use bst, however it wasn't until new options were presented that people changed to ragnarok,2handed,smn,etc meta.

On that particular NM, the video shows it has faster kill speed. I wouldn't dismiss MNK as "another viable strategy" at least not on Kin. Because in the end of day, the point of min maxing is to accomplish fastest clear speed.

So that makes MNK the best DD in 2 fights in this game.

One interesting info from that video is that despite MNK has the lowest theoretical DPS ceiling, the MNK pt in that video actually kill 40% faster on that NM. It's not a small gap.

When it comes to min maxing in FFXI, people often believe using the DPS job with highest theoretical dps ceiling job = fastest win. This video kinda shows how mechanic design can change DD hierarchy completely.

Maybe we all need to stop, take a deep breath, and rethink the possibility that another weaker job could be a faster choice in some content than war drk sam because mechanics doesn't favor jobs with highest dps ceiling, and how different design could make such a huge difference when it comes to kill speed.


Let's join the subtle blow wagon:
ItemSet 360411

COR/NIN 50 SB TP set :) QA+3 augment on hercs. Capping SB with Chirich +1 x2 barely lose dps, if at all.

Rua is one of my good friends, and he just posted what we all agree on, that MNK feeds less TP.

It was Kin... think about that for a moment. Kin, the guy that severely punish's you for feeding TP by healing HP during all TP moves. A job that feeds very little TP, on a NM that heals during TP moves and you can't SC on, combined with a second Pseudo DD that also feeds less TP. Months ago someone showed Kin was piss easy with a MNK.

So basically maximum possible advantage to the MNK, minimum possible advantage to anyone else. That's like putting a 100 pound weight on Usain Bolt's back and then commenting on how he lost to another professional runner and how he's not really that great at running.

My "stance" is as follows


This has been verified over and over again in actual game play along with every theory-crafting ever done. Anyone that things a video of a Kin fight, which was already discussed six+ months ago changes anything hasn't been keeping up.

So players have endless amounts of money. That's a stupid argument

Also, WHO CARES ABOUT FIGHTING THREE MINUTES FASTER??? The answer: everyone cares. If the argument is "Monk can't do anything another job cannot do better" then you need to stop dismissing it when Monk does something better. Everyone cares about faster kill speed. That's the entire premise behind this discussion. You're not making any sense

Remember this month when MNK was the best DD?

https://youtu.be/4P2_Lodklzc

People did shout for REMA MNK at that time, even though every other DD job could clear it perfectly fine.

So we'll see.

The point isn't that you can kill Kin 3 minutes faster, it's that in this specific instance MNK is not only the easiest and safest but the fastest setup. Furthermore, despite all saevel's hee-hawing over mob casts and TP intervals, the difference is visibly highlighted.

On top of that, using MNK NIN gives significantly more TP than using MNK MNK would have. That means that for those people too stubborn to actually try it, you have visible proof that using MNKs will reduce your TP eaten by over 50%.

Maybe it is just one fight, but the same principles apply to other fights where TP moves will reduce damage dealt. Perhaps reducing the TP moves allows you to forego carols and use more DPS buffs. Perhaps the mob stuns frequently(sovereign behemoth, urmahlullu come to mind). These are situations where MNK is not only easier, but potentially faster.

Good thing any SAM worth their salt already has the Ken+1 set for situational use. The truth is, 200m is not a lot to most modern players.

But... But..... If you were main SAM, wouldn't you have kenda HQ anyways? You're just making up excuses at this point

If you're broke then we understand your lack of interest. Duly noted. But if that's the case, you don't really have a leg to stand on if your entire argument is "that costs too much money to be good".

Except, MNK has easy access to 56 PDT. A non-epeo RUN is sitting at 55. If a RDM or SCH is present, MNK will take similar or less damage than an non-epeo RUN. If not, they are still more than capable of training everything and cataing it down(Ramzus and Snaps have both done it in this thread..).

Nobody's telling your special snowflake *** to level MNK or don't bother running Kin. We're saying the job isn't as bad as you want to think it is. It's OK to change your mind when presented with new information.

Any SAM worth a ***has 5/5 for the m.evasion in situations where applicable. It allows you to resist damn near anything.

Probably similar to WAR RUN. Penance and the last SBII points are what really set MNK apart. Really, it's a shame the sample wasn't done with MNK MNK because it would highlight even further.

Then you just missed it.

Honestly, I feel like half of the hate here is because people don't want to accept the idea of their favorite DPS not being universally best. Rest assured, MNK isn't going to become the preferred DPS gamewide if you take off your blinders and acknowledge it has use.

Literally nobody said anything in your post. Also, if you could pull 200M in a week, why is money spent on Monk items a valid argument in your case? You're making a non sequitur that is totally unrelated to the discussion. I wonder why you would try to deflect with that point of training....

Nobody is assuming Monk is going to change the paradigm in any meaningful way. But the purpose of the video is too highlight that Monk has much practical use, and can do things better. Players just ignore it. Whether people care to employ it is irrelevant. That's not what really matters. The real purpose was to show the difference in kill speed and to see if bringing monks really is that much of a detriment to certain fights. In this case, is better

False equivalence. You claimed you couldn't AOE mobs on MNK, which has comparable defensive ability to a non-epeo RUN or a non-burt PLD. Unless you're unable to run omen without an epeo or burtgang, you've already aoed under similar circumstances.. meaning you can personally recognize it is possible.

Nobody anywhere has said to gear MNK and start using it. People who enjoy the job already know the value of it and use it where appropriate. We are just trying to illustrate that it has value to this toxic cloud of ***. I get it, small penis syndrome or something, but you don't have to like something just because other people like it.

Umm.... you realize he just proved exactly what I was saying... earlier.

Regular DD

MNK DD

The difference is much less then the ~700% you were predicting, less then half. So please continue saying one and one is three.


It is that one fight, the T4 Worm HELM might also qualify though damage healing isn't so much an issue on him as is the Fire / Stone modes and TP feeding has no impact on those. There are probably a few Abyssea fights where the NM "heals during TP moves" that also favor feeding excessive less TP, but we don't really care about those anyway.

MNK does so well on the Kin fight not because it's super amazing, but because other DD's are forced to turn around and not go full ham or do multi-step SCs. Basically MNK can just run the race while others are forced to carry 100 pound weights on their backs. MNK is the least handicapped against NM's that heal during TP moves.

the ability of not-RUN DD job to pull entire floor of mob is about the same as none-epeo RUN.

Epeo cost gil too, so the argument of gil is invalid.

If you seriously want RUN just do something like RUN+MNK, should have similar level of TP feed as NIN+MNK I believe, capping SB on light armor job is *** easy.

Edit: Beaten by Comeatmebro

Not until SE does a major fix to H2H WS's.


It failed to do that because of the target, which a cheerleader chose. If you want to showcase something in an unbiased way, you use neutral scenarios. like say another Omen boss like Gin or Kyou. Do a Reisen T2 or T3, maybe even some 135 UNM's like Sarama or Sovereign Behemoth. Those are fights where the fight mechanics won't penalize one set of DD's while also allowing MNK to have a meaningful impact.

Also don't change tanks, especially between "tank RUN" and "hybrid DD NIN", it invalidates the test because it changes the underlying assumptions for what's being tested.


It most certainly doesn't but that doesn't matter because MNK is perfectly capable of AoEing stuff with Cataclysm.


No your white knighting the damsel in distress and protecting her from those horrible aggressors. It's the underdog / hero complex on display. I mean after all what are you *really* defending, the honor of monks everywhere?

The argument of "nobody will go out and gear MNK because its one fight" is silly to begin with, that's not even the thought process of most player when it comes to gearing a new job.

Normally, people gear a new job for 2 purposes:
1) The job is essential for certain setup/strategy.
2) For fun.

People gear up idris GEO, epeo RUN, Nirvana SMN, Yagrush WHM, REMA BRD, SCH BLM for endgame often because reason 1). These jobs can't be replaced by another job and it's used in very specific way in endgame.

Any melee DD doesn't fall into these essential job category (Minus jobs with special use like BLU for cleave, THF for TH and WAR for zerg) , so normally when people gear up a DD job it often falls to 2).

Will people go out and gear jobs like DRG, DRK, DNC etc because their linkshell ask for those jobs? lol no. Normally people gear up those jobs because they like them, and if they don't another DD can take the spot.

MNK is in the same category as other DD. People do gear DD jobs for fun in game, so it's not entirely unreasonable to assume more people will gear MNK and give it a try, even if it can be replaced.