Apoc 99 Vs Ragnarok 95

^ this

im currently working on apoc and gonna 99 it before rag only because i lowman alot and the extra 15% dmg on cata is going to make more difference to me. if you dont plan to abuse drk for lowman, dont bother making apoc

everything aside idk why you can only do one or the other... it takes nothin but time and effort

If you're gearing apoc in conjunction to how close you are to haste cap, apoc stands to lose quite a bit to an embrava nerf as well.

Not really since useful most pieces of gear already have haste on them. Apoc AM set (capped haste) only requires 2% in gear haste. Also if Embrava doesn't cap haste any more then BRDs will get more action.

Regen and duration will be the biggest embrava factors.

I didn't mean to imply that a embrava nerf could push Apocalypse ahead of Ragnarok (although it could certainly close the gap somewhat), but that a significant change to Embrava could alter the DD heirarchy enough to where Ragnarok is pushed aside in favor of other job/weapon combinations.

Apocalypse already doesn't really compete in this heirarchy, as it's a utility weapon with much different applications.

I'm sort of thinking that they'll just halve the duration of Embrava though, which really won't affect anything outside of Nyzul. We'll see how good my dev prediction skills are, though!

Thats what I think as well.

And no Apoc99 is not going to out damage Rag99 ever?

i swear if we say it enough theyll think we want it...

also if/when they nerf the regen or regain apoc would probably pull ahead for neo nyzul, thats about it

I for one look forward to our Koga SAM overlords

Only if you say it in JP

Let's do some morta and Provenance watcher one day. You on Rag DRK, me on apoc DRK.
I'm not defying you, thing is I'm often in the first two places on morta and on the last parsed PW i finished 3rd behind rag 99 WAR and Spharai 99 mnk, i don't know what the rag drk was doing.
So I need someone like you to make comparison.

Parses like that really are'nt accurate though.
Just look at it like this:
DPS Spreadsheets and math in general shows you what's possible to do, and is very accurate.

But then people are different, and play differently.
Some people are just better at timing stuff well, and in general plays more agressively and because of that parse better than others.

Give one of those better players an Apocalypse, and one of the worse players a Ragnarok, and the Apocalypse should win.
Swap the weapons around and the Ragna would crush the Apoc.

I'm down to do that.
I'll come Rag PLD to keep it interesting.

I have both, 95 rag always beats the damage of my 99 apoc.

"Always" is a bit strong, Apoc does have damage advantages on some content/situations.

Yes I know math is more accurate, but when you have to choose people you generally select them on how they play. You noticed I didn't say I've outparsed Rag DRK but "I don't know what the rag DRK was doing" meaning I expected him to do way more dmg than me.

I didn't say that my Apoc is collecting dust by any means. However, when I need raw damage Ragnarok is the weapon of choice.

And that's sort of what I'm getting at. There's no question that Ragnarok is a top contender in the wiping the floor with ***department.

But, if Embrava gets a huge potency cut, it stands that jobs like SAM, Ryuno DRG, Greataxe WAR, and potentially even MNK for some content (more so considering talks of adjusting content account for Embrava / pd nerfs) could very easily come out "winning."

If you're making a weapon because it is the most powerful currently, there's always a gamble that it'll fall from its peak.

But, right now we *know* a quake is coming. We just don't know where it will strike or how things will look once the dust settles.

If one must make things now, I just think it is important to consider that Apoc is still guaranteed to be useful for all the situations in which it is currently useful, and has the potential to gain new ground. On top of that, the 99 upgrade does more for Apocalypse than it does for Ragnarok, since Apocalypse has reason to use its signature WS.

That aside, Ragnarok should still remain DRK's superior weapon and is currently top dog. But it's still the bee's knees at 95.

ITT: Sylow speaks positively of Apocalypse.

My head hurts reading all this. You're going to end up or have a decision what to make/upgrade regardless what people suggest or considering all the what-if situations.

Just do whatever you have in mind.

I'll one up this with "make both" and then you never have to explain yourself!

Reminds me of the "why are you guys discussing politics" posts in the politics forum.

Embrava already overshoots the magic haste cap, and marches exist.

Unless everyone in question was aware doing max damage was the main goal of a battle, using VW for parse isn't necessarily a very conclusive indicator. Its nice to know you have some people that can put out high numbers, but if we're talking about VW then selecting people for the way they play doesn't always mean max damage.

RAGNAROK IS FOR MOAR DAMAGE.

APOCALYPSE IS FOR RESPECTABLE DAMAGE + LIVING.


***.

Apoc is pretty(and since urteil is here, it's probably good for PVP or something). Rag is better. If you need survivability, fulltime your dring and mekira with ragnarok.

Ive got to agree with Sylow on this weapons come and go based on the situation up until the release of resolution there were next to no Lolnaroks(its name back then). Ragnarok was in the same class as Claustrum a lolrelic i think lots are forgetting this but i cant see it ever going back to that as long as resolution is as strong as it is. We will have to emerge from the ruins of the Embrava and Perfect Defense nerfs and see what happens.

btw, thinking about it for zergs, any change to embrava wont really hurt drk, i think people forget the new round of 2hr (or 1hr w/e) abilities on the way, drks being a very potent en-tp drain... test server reads a max of 55 tp drained in 1 hit so far?

also why in current game setting is the dmg output of both weapons a debate? anyone whos played within the last 11 or so months knows the answer, done deal. the only real question is usability, make a 95 apoc if you plan to lowman or drk tank, 99 rag if youre all about being #1 in parses and want to max a weapon for more than 1 job

Gil grows on trees and ADL is a joke fight, no reason not to have both at 99 :p

I'm here because I'm very competent in regards to editing my spellcast, researching optimal gear choices and then spamming resolution/entropy/whatever to make things die the quickest.

I'm here because I can't possibly understand how people can realistically argue how Apocalypse is a superior weapon for Damage in 99% of any situations that occur in PvE.

But take heed Resolution is really what elevated Ragnarok to what it is, but the icing on the cake is the +crit chance and the ability to never have to worry about accuracy/less worry about it on high tier mobs.

What really changed the game was the release of the new WS, if Ragnarok still only had scourge attached it would still be collecting dust everywhere.





Apocalypse is good for a lot of things.
Maximum damage in most situations (right now) is not one of them.

I don't think anyone really thinks that. However, I don't think Rag is better in 99% either. If I'm sitting on capped haste, on a mob I can leech life from and use souleater on, with double march or embrava on... I'm usually taking advantage of my 3% haste gearsets.

I understand the "you can like totally wear d-ring for survivability" arguement, but there is also an offensive aspect to catastrophe. Not even just for the life>damage ratio. It's extremely refreshing to have an available rotation of SE/DE/Aggressor at your disposal for chamber of the veiled etc.

Anyhow, like i said before: make both and then you can develop a taste for where/when you want to use what, and have it suit your taste/playstyle.