Apoc 99 Vs Ragnarok 95 |
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Apoc 99 Vs Ragnarok 95
Asura.Izilder said: » @ an Iga Alima run the other day i parsed a 95 Apoc WHOOP this 99 Ukko every time >> And when i went NNI with Apoc its great for when you dont have regen5 on etc I haven't done NNI since the embrava nerf, been 15/15 for a while. But I will say that Apoc DRKs were great because Haste and they were good to go! The rag drk's...I'd be like oh ***where the *** are you?! Must cure4!! You aren't building TP for drain affect. Its being built do deal damage and maintain the Aftermath. HP Drain is the bonus.
Apocalypse has better Accuracy than Ragnarok. I don't doubt the potential behind Ragnarok. I consider finishing one myself. Only reason I haven't is because pushing Apocalypse to compete with Ragnaroks/Ukos/Veres/etc is one of the few things I even enjoy about this game anymore.
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As far as an Apoc beating and keeping up with other weapons, that's simply going to be the result of shitty players with nice things. Kill speed of Ragnarok makes it a significantly better choice than Apoc every time for Legion.
You'll never compete with an equally proficient Rag, Ukon, or what have you; you can push all you'd like
And MNK isn't a contender, I'm not sure where Vere fits into this I shouldn't be surprised that this stupid discussion continues at this stage in the game, but I always seem to be
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Bismarck.Hsieh said: » If your DRK is tanking in Legion, your PLD has failed. Your PDT set is more important than trying to build 100 TP for a drain effect. [....] My motto has always been: a dead DRK is a useless DRK. Who brings more than one PLD to legion? 1 PLD is enough for kiting. You should not need a second one to tank the wave mobs as they're being killed; so every DD should cap hate/bounce hate. Valefor.Lisamarie said: » Bismarck.Hsieh said: » If your DRK is tanking in Legion, your PLD has failed. Your PDT set is more important than trying to build 100 TP for a drain effect. [....] My motto has always been: a dead DRK is a useless DRK. Who brings more than one PLD to legion? 1 PLD is enough for kiting. You should not need a second one to tank the wave mobs as they're being killed; so every DD should cap hate/bounce hate. Phoenix.Ayrendel said: » Siren.Satsui said: » So Ragnarok Darks make better Sub tanks than Apoc darks. Because having a 10% Gear Haste Aftermath and Drain on WS doesn't make a difference. Cause You would rather have WHMs cure bombing, running low on MP, and pulling hate. Did I get that right? Let me know if I misunderstood what you are saying. You've made quite a few leaps and assumptions. Mostly that show a lack of understanding of the event. 1. The difference in damage between an Apoc and a Rag in Legion is not going to be made up by the drain on WS. In fact, the drain on WS is not going to be enough to keep you up anyway, so you will still need a WHM curing you. 2. With the significantly lower damage output, the mob will stay up longer, thus requiring the WHM to cure everyone longer, which is more likely to cause mp issues than not having the intermittent, unreliable means of draining HP with your WS. 3. 10% gear haste? This isn't level 75. Capping haste via gear while still capping acc, attack, and adding in QA/TA/QA gear is not even remotely a problem at this stage of the game. 4. Any group worth anything will have vile elixirs for their mages on the off chance that ***hits the fan and MP somehow gets too low, although this is a lot more likely to be related to issues with stunners than what weapon a DD is using. I've personally witnessed the same DRK regularly come with his 99 apoc, then finish his Rag, and go from parsing as low as 7% to being on par with the usual suspects for winning the parses (Not that parses mean everything, but just an example of the difference between the 2 weapons in the same player's hands). Kill speed is important in an event like this, in order to minimize the amount of time your stunners have to stun TP moves, letting BRD/COR buffs stay up, keep healer MP up, relieve your PLD of holding as many mobs, and maximize the number of drops you're getting by killing more iterations of the final wave. If your apoc drk is regularly parsing 7% in Legion there must be something wrong. Coming in late to the action. But Apoc DRK pretty much blows in Legion. High buff situations favor Rag/Resolution too much.
(same reason why Yoichi SAM is so good in Legion) i thought we had hit the common knowledge point where rag > apoc for zerg but apoc > rag in lowman with prolonged tanking (salvage abyssea meebles various <6 group thingz)
We hit it yes long time ago.
Ragnarok.Zeromega said: » i thought we had hit the common knowledge point where rag > apoc for zerg but apoc > rag in lowman with prolonged tanking (salvage abyssea meebles various <6 group thingz) Probably even more so with the DEF adjustment. I haven't played DRK at all since the update though >< its fairly drastic difference now, like i used to tank in abyssea as drk/mnk but the def/atk ratio screws you with lr and counterstance up so ive shifted to drk/war (was also /mnk for extra procs before) and its not too bad mind you i play with someone on whm or /dnc usually, going /sam outside abyssea and fulltime seigan tank like the old days or be on your face in a second
and before we get the "hows /war better than /mnk on defense", common sense says dont tank with berserk and last resort up at the same damn time, also drk doesnt hurt as bad from the atk loss if you pop defender in a pinch while you toss on -pdt not sure drk has the eva to bring /nin back... edit: skipped the original point, unless you use apoc in the new areas, youll either have to rest between every kill (or every other with luck) or die in 4-6 hits, and even with apoc better have your enfeeb magic capped cause links drag you to hell Ragnarok.Zeromega said: » not sure drk has the eva to bring /nin back... I was one of the first DRK/NIN tanks for HNM back in the day. (Tia,Khim,Cerb etc) Terrible EVA was a big selling point, since it made counting shadows very easy. everything in the new areas seems to hit faster/more often, tho all the fast cast and haste options may work a bit better, ill have to test before i judge
i loved /sam tanking way back, not for extended fights but it was easy to seigan > stun when third eye dropped > third eye > repeat also remember tanking serket drk/nin fairly well with average gear... Ragnarok.Zeromega said: » everything in the new areas seems to hit faster/more often, tho all the fast cast and haste options may work a bit better, ill have to test before i judge i loved /sam tanking way back, not for extended fights but it was easy to seigan > stun when third eye dropped > third eye > repeat also remember tanking serket drk/nin fairly well with average gear... Pretty positive mob delay hasn't changed. Ragnarok.Zeromega said: » more double attack
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Ragnarok.Zeromega said: » also remember tanking serket drk/nin fairly well with average gear... |
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