Another Pro Choice Vs Pro Life Thread
Another pro choice vs pro life thread
Well then, go on and tell me their names but that still doesn't mean it's relevant, okay?
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Well then, go on and tell me their names but that still doesn't mean it's relevant, okay?
... It's not relevant that there are mothers that are not suitable to rear children?
Well then, I guess there's no need for abortion after all.
I'm not stating it doesn't happen. It most unfortunately does occur. As to how frequently and within which regional demograph will require a great deal of research and census.
It just makes you look rather factitious and counter productive to your argument.
It just makes you look rather factitious and counter productive to your argument.
What? How do you think a child from a toxic environment is going to turn out?
EDIT: Why am I even bothering with this thread? I've already depressed myself enough tonight.
EDIT: Why am I even bothering with this thread? I've already depressed myself enough tonight.
No, it's actually not relevant that there are specific instances of mothers that do not fit the traditional safe family model of childcare - not even all persons capable of becoming pregnant identify as women (if you've noticed my terminology, maybe you've gotten the clue-in on that bit, I doubt it). Abortion doesn't exclusively have to do with whether or not the person will be a capable parent.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
Wouldn't it be the responsible thing to end one's pregnancy, knowing they are ill prepared or suitable to attend and properly care for their child, let alone themselves and the responsibilities and financial obligations that come forth based on their unfortunate set of circumstance and reality that would bring forth a myriad of unnecessary agony and hardship for both the mother and child for future years to come, paving the road for failure and thus burden to society as a whole?
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Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Artemicion said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
In any case, the OP, however jokingly, asked opinions. Despite horror stories about teen mothers and crack *** and the like in this thread and that I've heard throughout my life, and despite whether or not the fetus is a human being or not, abortion is wrong. The risk that it may possibly be a human being, parasite or no, coupled with the fact that society, let alone myself, believes murder or anything of the kind to be wrong only solidifies my opinion.
Who said anything about crack ***?
ninja edited the post, I've heard many a horror story about crack *** having babies. See: Trainspotting, Breaking Bad, etc.
Are you seriously using fictional mediums of entertainment to document your support for pro-life?
Are you saying these things aren't common place, regardless of the examples that I've used?
I can tell you names of people who have fathered children with a mother addicted to meth, but instead I used things that you may have seen.
maybe instead of campaigning against abortion on the ffxi forums, you should be getting those women some help.
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Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
No, it's actually not relevant that there are specific instances of mothers that do not fit the traditional safe family model of childcare - not even all persons capable of becoming pregnant identify as women (if you've noticed my terminology, maybe you've gotten the clue-in on that bit, I doubt it). Abortion doesn't exclusively have to do with whether or not the person will be a capable parent.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
So you would say late term abortions are A-OK too?
Isn't that a great irony of the entire anti-choice movement though? Accuse pregnant individual of being irresponsible; state that pregnant individual must be responsible.
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Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
No, it's actually not relevant that there are specific instances of mothers that do not fit the traditional safe family model of childcare - not even all persons capable of becoming pregnant identify as women (if you've noticed my terminology, maybe you've gotten the clue-in on that bit, I doubt it). Abortion doesn't exclusively have to do with whether or not the person will be a capable parent.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
So you would say late term abortions are A-OK too?
Backpedaling to a subject that has more or less been unanimous in finding both horrifying and immoral, amongst both pro choice and lifers is not exactly the best way to defend your beliefs. Which again is also subjective to great sets of circumstance.
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
No, it's actually not relevant that there are specific instances of mothers that do not fit the traditional safe family model of childcare - not even all persons capable of becoming pregnant identify as women (if you've noticed my terminology, maybe you've gotten the clue-in on that bit, I doubt it). Abortion doesn't exclusively have to do with whether or not the person will be a capable parent.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
What it all boils down to is that anti-choice doctrine would restrict the right to autonomy of pregnant individuals.
So you would say late term abortions are A-OK too?
(Unfortunately) Yes. I don't really need to discuss the logistics of this, but anyone who goes through with an abortion after the second trimester has extensive conversation with their doctor, and in 99% of cases, carrying through with the pregnancy would pose a risk to the person's life, or the potential child had zero chance of survival, which would require a stillbirth to be performed, potentially resulting in a great deal of trauma.
Artemicion said: »
Wouldn't it be the responsible thing to end one's pregnancy, knowing they are ill prepared or suitable to attend and properly care for their child, let alone themselves and the responsibilities and financial obligations that come forth based on their unfortunate set of circumstance and reality that would bring forth a myriad of unnecessary agony and hardship for both the mother and child for future years to come, paving the road for failure and thus burden to society as a whole?
Again it would come down to when the fetus gains it's own rights.
"Responsible" in the grand scheme of society, maybe. But if it's a human life, then no, it's not responsible.
The fetus gains its own rights when the person carrying it decides it does because it relies on the individual carrying it for survival. Any other answer is oppressive, invasive, and wrong.
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Artemicion said: »
Wouldn't it be the responsible thing to end one's pregnancy, knowing they are ill prepared or suitable to attend and properly care for their child, let alone themselves and the responsibilities and financial obligations that come forth based on their unfortunate set of circumstance and reality that would bring forth a myriad of unnecessary agony and hardship for both the mother and child for future years to come, paving the road for failure and thus burden to society as a whole?
Again it would come down to when the fetus gains it's own rights.
"Responsible" in the grand scheme of society, maybe. But if it's a human life, then no, it's not responsible.
I can't even argue with you anymore if your reasoning is that unsound.
Detriment to the mother, itself, and society as a whole be damned, that unborn "child" has rights!
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Ragnarok.Hevans said: »
maybe instead of campaigning against abortion on the ffxi forums, you should be getting those women some help.
brb going outside my means to help people who refuse professional help due to chemical addictions at 11 pm at night
hopefully i can get them to get on the wagon
Artemicion said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Artemicion said: »
Wouldn't it be the responsible thing to end one's pregnancy, knowing they are ill prepared or suitable to attend and properly care for their child, let alone themselves and the responsibilities and financial obligations that come forth based on their unfortunate set of circumstance and reality that would bring forth a myriad of unnecessary agony and hardship for both the mother and child for future years to come, paving the road for failure and thus burden to society as a whole?
Again it would come down to when the fetus gains it's own rights.
"Responsible" in the grand scheme of society, maybe. But if it's a human life, then no, it's not responsible.
I can't even argue with you anymore if your reasoning is that unsound.
How is it unsound? I'd legitimately like to know the flaw.
It is because you are using a forced "ambiguity" in attempt to further your argument. Intentional obscuring of that which is not obscure is a pretty fundamental fallacy.
On top of a very basic strawman to the only actual reason for being pro-choice.
On top of a very basic strawman to the only actual reason for being pro-choice.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.
You say it has rights when the mother decides it has rights, because it relies on her life for it's own well being.
I say it has rights at a certain point in the pregnancy, be it when there is a heart beat or some sign of brain function. The fetus and it's mother are separate entities, regardless of the fetus's placement.
You say it has rights when the mother decides it has rights, because it relies on her life for it's own well being.
I say it has rights at a certain point in the pregnancy, be it when there is a heart beat or some sign of brain function. The fetus and it's mother are separate entities, regardless of the fetus's placement.
Oh really? So, if you kill the pregnant individual, what happens? The fetus carries on in its development as per usual? Thankfully, it's only placed inside the uterus.
Oh, wait.
Oh, wait.
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Oh really? So, if you kill the mother, what happens?
Irrelevant, many parasites that have nothing to do with their hosts (as in similarity of species) die when the host dies.
In this case, it is actually not irrelevant. Denying the relevancy does not make it go away. I believe you have just lost this argument, move on.
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Oh really? So, if you kill the mother, what happens?
Irrelevant, many parasites that have nothing to do with their hosts (as in similarity of species) die when the host dies.
Did you just compare fetuses to parasites seriously, as like, in an attempt to further an anti-abortion argument?
Lol.
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Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Oh really? So, if you kill the mother, what happens?
Irrelevant, many parasites that have nothing to do with their hosts (as in similarity of species) die when the host dies.
Did you just compare fetuses to parasites seriously, as like, in an attempt to further an anti-abortion argument?
Lol.
If you had read the thread previously, you would have seen several parties calling fetuses parasites.
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
In this case, it is actually not irrelevant. Denying the relevancy does not make it go away. I believe you have just lost this argument, move on.
Agree to disagree, I guess. Stating I've "lost the argument" does not make me "lose the argument." Similarly, stating that the fetus is not a separate entity from it's mother does not make it so.
Well, it's not like anyone here is supporting me, specially no one more knowledgeable than I am on the subject. So it's not like you or I appear to be changing our minds anytime soon.
In my life anyway I plan on making a stand against abortion if I get the chance. I won't be a part of it, no matter what.
Fetuses are parasites, biologically. But it certainly doesn't help out the antichoicers.
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Fetuses are parasites, biologically. But it certainly doesn't help out the antichoicers.
No, not technically.
A parasite decreases the biological fitness of the host, which is the likelihood of surviving and passing on one's genetic material.
A fetus is the manifestation of passing down genetic material, so the fetus feeding off of you actually increases your fitness as long as it doesn't get you killed.
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First of all, nobody likes abortion. Nobody wake sup and says, "You know what, today is a great day for my abortion!" It doesn't work like that.
I don't agree to disagree, you are wrong, and I am right. Deal with it.
I don't agree to disagree, you are wrong, and I am right. Deal with it.
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Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
In my life anyway I plan on making a stand against abortion if I get the chance. I won't be a part of it, no matter what.
HAVE FUN DENYING PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO THEIR BODIES YOU OPPRESSIVE DOUCHE.
Have fun writing in caps and killing children, you psychotic murderer.
Agree to disagree
you kill bugs and eat animals/plants all day. i guess that makes you a murderer too.
Leviathan.Hohenheim said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Asura.Leonlionheart said: »
In my life anyway I plan on making a stand against abortion if I get the chance. I won't be a part of it, no matter what.
HAVE FUN DENYING PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO THEIR BODIES YOU OPPRESSIVE DOUCHE.
Have fun writing in caps and killing children, you psychotic murderer.
Agree to disagree
you kill bugs and eat animals/plants all day. i guess that makes you a murderer too.
where we disagree, human life.
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
First of all, nobody likes abortion. Nobody wake sup and says, "You know what, today is a great day for my abortion!" It doesn't work like that.
I don't agree to disagree, you are wrong, and I am right. Deal with it.
I don't agree to disagree, you are wrong, and I am right. Deal with it.
lol bye
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