Another Pro Choice Vs Pro Life Thread

Since you can't prove when Life actually takes place, I guess I can force my belief on you there is no god since I can't prove it one way or another.

It's funny how begging the question always works in favor of the Christian.

Biologically speaking, it's a pretty gross misuse of terminology.
Popular usage and technical definitions don't always match up, but I tend to expect that if you're going to preface something with biologically you should adhere to technical definitions.

It's the same as if you were to say, "In a literary sense, rain on one's wedding day is ironic."

(People didn't even let Alanis Morisette get away with that without the technical introduction.)

But yeah, it's not 100% related to pro-life vs. pro-choice, except in that the fetus-mother relationship is not parasitic but rather stressful.

Anyway, the fetus-as-parasite thing comes up a lot from pro-choice people in debates (albeit usually jokingly, I think), but it really just makes them look like they have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to things biologically speaking.

It bothers me.

It doesn't bother me as much as pro-life people who say they're pro-life "except in cases of rape," because that little "EXCEPT" completely undermines the pro-life argment.

All fetuses are alive and have rights. Oh wait, except if they were conceived by rape. Those aren't people. Those are rape-fetuses. It's okay to kill those.

So suddenly it's okay to pick and choose who has rights and who doesn't, and thus, who's okay to kill, and who isn't.

The whole rape/incest thing is basically atrocity baiting by the pro-choice side, which is an effective tactic at getting pro-life people to undermine their own logic, using their own aversion toward the concepts of rape and incest against them.

It can also be fun to throw wrenches in pro-choicer's plans:

"So abortion is okay, right?"
"Yes."
"No matter what?"
"Right, I'm pro-choice."
"So if I have sex with a Black person, but I don't want a Black baby, then it's okay for me to get an abortion because I don't like the race of my baby?"

Of course, the only logically consistent answer with the pro-choice argument is yes, but pro-choice people will usually worm their way around arguments like that. In my experience there's a pretty high percentage of people (mostly young progressives) that will say "No, that's not okay. That should be banned."

Ultimately, it's the same tactic (atrocity/repulsion baiting) - use something people don't like to get them to go against their own logical foundations.

In my view, there are only two logically consistent views:

1.) Completely pro-choice (even in circumstances you might not like, such as preventing a gay or black baby)
2.) Completely pro-life (all abortions are banned, always, because fetuses have rights).

The only other "sort of" logically consistent stance is to be okay with abortions up to a "specific point" at which point the fetus gains rights. I tend to find it shaky because that "specific point" is likely to be highly arbitrary and not have any sort of logical foundation.

(Take note that things like surgery for ectopic pregnancies (the baby forms outside of the uterus) or the death of a fetus due to a medical procedure necessary to save the mother's life (example: uterine cancer), do not legally or morally constitute abortions. Abortion as we use it refers to induced termination of pregnancy. If the fetus dies as a result of a side effect of a medical procedure necessary to save the mother's life, it's generally considered a miscarriage. Additionally, only in one circumstance (ectopic pregnancy) is the removal of the fetus required to save the mother's life, but in ectopic pregnancies, past a certain point, the fetus has no chance of surviving anyway and its presence will indeed kill the mother.)

The "pro-life for me, but pro-choice for everyone else 'cause I can't make that decision for everyone" argument suffers from similar logical inconsistencies.

As a side point, I'm pro-choice (regardless of circumstance).

Wait.. How do you even know if a baby is gay? lol.

Also, if someone really didn't want their baby to be black, I highly doubt they would be having sex with a black person in the first place.

But even then, if they want an abortion based on the race of the baby, I still support that that is their right.

Basically this. Getting the world to the point where people would not abort a baby for the reasons listed in the bolded statement is a journey of its own. But even in cases like that (unfortunately), it is completely the pregnant person's decision. I wouldn't even ask the reason, to be perfectly honest.

Racist, heterosexist? Most definitely. Still their right? Yep.

The unborn baby recieves oxygen from the mothers blood via the umbilicus BEFORE birth takes place.It has a heartbeat, can hear etc so therefore is alive.Life began when its heart started beating.This can be seen on scan from about 7 weeks.

How's that bliss of yours working out?

From what I can tell from last couple of pages you haven't put any thought whatsoever into your argument. You should keep spouting the same ***.

So you're all for creating inbreed children, good to know.

I've never seen a case of someone learning for their mistake.

As stated a number of pages ago, all they keep doing is having more babies with different fathers in hopes one of them will take care of them and their children.

This may not be the case for everyone, but it's certainly a trend I've noticed from many different pregnant teenagers.

This whole anti-abortion thing is a very antiquated and sexist notion.

These are usually the same people who are all about freedom and are in strict favor of the death penalty. I'm sure not all of them, but from the conservative standpoint, yeah.

Forcing a woman to carry a baby and give birth no matter what is also a fascist ideal.

Very contradicting.

@Mabrook

I see your point.But people in a coma aren't concious but they are still alive.Do we pull the plug?For me, delivering babies is my proffesion.I have to view that they are alive.Would do me no good to think otherwise when I see women panicking when their waters break early and the devastation it creates.

Learn what exactly?

Condoms are lame.
However I will agree with you to an extent that proper birth control should be something everyone learns if you're going to have sex. Both parties need to agree on what exactly.

Having an unwanted baby though is definitely not the way to learn.

True, it's all computerised nowadays its tick boxes :D

Keep on topic now guys :)

Can you explain the part that is bolded, and what you are responding to?

But seriously, there really is no debate about this subject. Pro-choice is the only choice unless you're opposed to freedom and want to limit people's rights. Of course, there is a limitation, if you're eight months in, abortion should no longer be an option.

This message brought to you by a Republican that thinks his political party is represented by dip shits.