Answer my first question when you've the time but I've some more questions. One of the core beliefs in christianity is that god is all seeing, all knowing, and of course all powerful. This seems like a slap in the face to the idea of free will as well as questionable since he lacked the foresight or cared when the world was going 'bad' prior to Noah's story.
For a god who can see all and know all it seems he had a huge blind spot seeing as he waited til the world was 'evil' to actually do something.
If god is as powerful as you claim how can you argue that you still retain free will if he knows what happens in the past, present and future? And if he does know all and see all and can do all why did he wait til the last moment to do anything in noah's story and why resort to murdering everything? (yes everything, fish of different water types cannot survive something like the great flood)
How Christians Can Make The World A Better Place
How Christians can Make the World a Better Place
Asura.Rekin said: »
Answer my first question when you've the time but I've some more questions. One of the core beliefs in christianity is that god is all seeing, all knowing, and of course all powerful. This seems like a slap in the face to the idea of free will as well as questionable since he lacked the foresight or cared when the world was going 'bad' prior to Noah's story.
For a god who can see all and know all it seems he had a huge blind spot seeing as he waited til the world was 'evil' to actually do something.
If god is as powerful as you claim how can you argue that you still retain free will if he knows what happens in the past, present and future? And if he does know all and see all and can do all why did he wait til the last moment to do anything in noah's story and why resort to murdering everything? (yes everything, fish of different water types cannot survive something like the great flood)
For a god who can see all and know all it seems he had a huge blind spot seeing as he waited til the world was 'evil' to actually do something.
If god is as powerful as you claim how can you argue that you still retain free will if he knows what happens in the past, present and future? And if he does know all and see all and can do all why did he wait til the last moment to do anything in noah's story and why resort to murdering everything? (yes everything, fish of different water types cannot survive something like the great flood)
You don't actually believe the whole Noah story do you?
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
I agree with the OP in what he was saying in the very first post, the world would be a better place if everyone had some or most of the qualities he mentioned.
I'm not a religious person so I don't presume to know the first thing about the exact teachings in the bible and if there are things written in the bible that are outdated, then I think that it is most likely due to when the bible was first put together.
Of course there will always be people who take religion and use it in all the awful ways history has shown us, however if this religion was not around I do not think that would have stopped them. If people hurt others or treat them badly, they would do that anyway.
Atheists have good morales because that is who they want to be and they feel it is right and good, christians may do it because of the say reasons or because they follow their religions teachings, the same goes for all of the worlds religions. I don't see why people feel the need to bad mouth religion when it is put across in the way the OP did in his first post, from what he says he is trying to be a good person and using the teachings of the Bible to achieve this. Too me it doesnt matter why someone is being a good person only that they are and the world is a better place because of it.
Religion can be blamed for some evildoings however there are plenty of non-religious people who have less than good morales. I treat people in a way I expect to be treated and for the most part the people I meet are the same and on a whole very pleasant :-).
I'm not a religious person so I don't presume to know the first thing about the exact teachings in the bible and if there are things written in the bible that are outdated, then I think that it is most likely due to when the bible was first put together.
Of course there will always be people who take religion and use it in all the awful ways history has shown us, however if this religion was not around I do not think that would have stopped them. If people hurt others or treat them badly, they would do that anyway.
Atheists have good morales because that is who they want to be and they feel it is right and good, christians may do it because of the say reasons or because they follow their religions teachings, the same goes for all of the worlds religions. I don't see why people feel the need to bad mouth religion when it is put across in the way the OP did in his first post, from what he says he is trying to be a good person and using the teachings of the Bible to achieve this. Too me it doesnt matter why someone is being a good person only that they are and the world is a better place because of it.
Religion can be blamed for some evildoings however there are plenty of non-religious people who have less than good morales. I treat people in a way I expect to be treated and for the most part the people I meet are the same and on a whole very pleasant :-).
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (Deuteronomy 2:33-34, Numbers 21:34-35, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Joshua 6:21. Joshua 10:40) In some cases you can keep the girls alive for raping. (Numbers 31:15-18)
And the 2nd:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (See above.)
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (See above.)
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (Deuteronomy 2:33-34, Numbers 21:34-35, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Joshua 6:21. Joshua 10:40) In some cases you can keep the girls alive for raping. (Numbers 31:15-18)
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (Deuteronomy 2:33-34, Numbers 21:34-35, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Joshua 6:21. Joshua 10:40) In some cases you can keep the girls alive for raping. (Numbers 31:15-18)
However you do see Christians today, especially those in government still touting the ten commandments. Remember that whole story about having them removed from a government building?
Odin.Daemun said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Yeah, but something made a conscious decision to kill us all. That doesn't bother you? Something took the time and effort to drown cities full of people. At other times, something took the time to destroy another city as I recall, and turned an innocent into salt.
Can you imagine that? You know, I look to Japan's recent tsunami and look at the death count. I imagine how much that must have sucked. Your house is suddenly destroyed and water moving at x-miles per hour slaps into you, perhaps breaking your bones. It's fierce water, too, so no matter how hard you try you can't get anywhere about it.
Something wanted you dead so badly that there was nothing you could do to fight back, so maybe you got to watch your baby drown first. Oh, the horrors of seeing that and still struggling to survive!
But you're running out of air. Or maybe, maybe you make it to the surface, but the force from your destroyed house has cast a piece of wood through you. As you bleed out into the water and die a painful death, you imagine that even if you were good that there would be no way to fight this most cruel act.
There is nothing that can be said to justify genocide. Not one thing.
How can people worship that? How can people worship a deity that committed a genocide?
I think back to the victims of the Japan tsunami, of the flooding of New Orleans, of all things of that sort, and find wonder that people can still defend that bitter, tyrannical man in the Old Testament.
[+]
Odin.Daemun said: »
Asura.Rekin said: »
Answer my first question when you've the time but I've some more questions. One of the core beliefs in christianity is that god is all seeing, all knowing, and of course all powerful. This seems like a slap in the face to the idea of free will as well as questionable since he lacked the foresight or cared when the world was going 'bad' prior to Noah's story.
For a god who can see all and know all it seems he had a huge blind spot seeing as he waited til the world was 'evil' to actually do something.
If god is as powerful as you claim how can you argue that you still retain free will if he knows what happens in the past, present and future? And if he does know all and see all and can do all why did he wait til the last moment to do anything in noah's story and why resort to murdering everything? (yes everything, fish of different water types cannot survive something like the great flood)
For a god who can see all and know all it seems he had a huge blind spot seeing as he waited til the world was 'evil' to actually do something.
If god is as powerful as you claim how can you argue that you still retain free will if he knows what happens in the past, present and future? And if he does know all and see all and can do all why did he wait til the last moment to do anything in noah's story and why resort to murdering everything? (yes everything, fish of different water types cannot survive something like the great flood)
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (Deuteronomy 2:33-34, Numbers 21:34-35, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Joshua 6:21. Joshua 10:40) In some cases you can keep the girls alive for raping. (Numbers 31:15-18)
However you do see Christians today, especially those in government still touting the ten commandments. Remember that whole story about having them removed from a government building?
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Punishment: Genocide. Entire cities with men, women, children and animals must be killed. (Deuteronomy 2:33-34, Numbers 21:34-35, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Joshua 6:21. Joshua 10:40) In some cases you can keep the girls alive for raping. (Numbers 31:15-18)
However you do see Christians today, especially those in government still touting the ten commandments. Remember that whole story about having them removed from a government building?
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
ITT, we have now justified genocide.
That makes me a sadpandaturtle.
That makes me a sad
Yeah, but something made a conscious decision to kill us all. That doesn't bother you? Something took the time and effort to drown cities full of people. At other times, something took the time to destroy another city as I recall, and turned an innocent into salt.
Can you imagine that? You know, I look to Japan's recent tsunami and look at the death count. I imagine how much that must have sucked. Your house is suddenly destroyed and water moving at x-miles per hour slaps into you, perhaps breaking your bones. It's fierce water, too, so no matter how hard you try you can't get anywhere about it.
Something wanted you dead so badly that there was nothing you could do to fight back, so maybe you got to watch your baby drown first. Oh, the horrors of seeing that and still struggling to survive!
But you're running out of air. Or maybe, maybe you make it to the surface, but the force from your destroyed house has cast a piece of wood through you. As you bleed out into the water and die a painful death, you imagine that even if you were good that there would be no way to fight this most cruel act.
There is nothing that can be said to justify genocide. Not one thing.
How can people worship that? How can people worship a deity that committed a genocide?
I think back to the victims of the Japan tsunami, of the flooding of New Orleans, of all things of that sort, and find wonder that people can still defend that bitter, tyrannical man in the Old Testament.
If what He did saved those peoples' souls before they were deemed unfit to enter eternity with Him, I am glad for what happened. It's like a father laying their life down for their child. It is sad, but much less so than if the child had died before getting to see the world. Think of this life as our child stage. If we die before reaching the point in which we get to experience the next life, it is a tragedy.
Wow.
Just. ***. Wow.
It disgusts me what you just said. It really, truly does.
But I have to go to class now, where I will work to one day make something to better the human species rather than kill them all.
Just. ***. Wow.
It disgusts me what you just said. It really, truly does.
But I have to go to class now, where I will work to one day make something to better the human species rather than kill them all.
Asura.Rekin said: »
For a god that apparently forgives people this would probably be one huge black mark on his record as a good entity. In addition people are every where on this planet and many don't even know what is christianity. Are these fellows condemned to hell(something that the bible itself didn't make up but a person who was excommunicated by the vatican, but is used to threaten any non-believers/people of other faith) simply for not being in a place where someone can 'spread the word'? What about people who are truely good in that they have contributed to society in many beneficial ways but don't believe because they prefer logic over simple belief? According to many believers(not just christianity mind you) say they are screwed. What is your way of explaining this?
What lesson was so important that that happened?
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What lesson was so important that that happened?
I understand this doesn't make much sense if you don't believe. It is something that can't be explained, just understood once you've been consumed with the spirit.
People are drawn to do things that feel good repeatedly. Information that makes you feel good makes you want to spread it around and apply it to the world around you. For some reason the idea of a fire and brimstone invisible deity makes people feel good and I think it's bundled in with not having to actually die. Humans are the only species (maybe elephants whatever) that actually understand the concept of death and the most religious of us can't handle it.
Afterlife religions diminish the value of our lives. On the grand scale of things you have such a small amount of time to exist and it's a shame so many waste it. Think about what religious groups will do when the most prominent diseases and disorders are cured. Look at stem cell research where religious authority condemns people that could give someone their arm back. That is a giant setback brought on by the sanctity of life preached by people that believe one day horrors untold will be unleashed on the earth.
I mean we've already figured out how to terraform other planets or however it's spelled. Even Armageddon is becoming obsolete.
Afterlife religions diminish the value of our lives. On the grand scale of things you have such a small amount of time to exist and it's a shame so many waste it. Think about what religious groups will do when the most prominent diseases and disorders are cured. Look at stem cell research where religious authority condemns people that could give someone their arm back. That is a giant setback brought on by the sanctity of life preached by people that believe one day horrors untold will be unleashed on the earth.
I mean we've already figured out how to terraform other planets or however it's spelled. Even Armageddon is becoming obsolete.
[+]
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What lesson was so important that that happened?
I understand this doesn't make much sense if you don't believe. It is something that can't be explained, just understood once you've been consumed with the spirit.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What lesson was so important that that happened?
Personally I think it would be about the same. I doubt we'll ever really know which side is right but I'm sure everyone will go on believing what they want to.
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What lesson was so important that that happened?
Personally I think it would be about the same. I doubt we'll ever really know which side is right but I'm sure everyone will go on believing what they want to.
god comes of as very narcissistic. I don't blame god (or the idea of god) rather the things people claim to be true because of someone's claim to what god wants.
If god or gods exist, no one can absolutely know what his/her/their plan, etc. is.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What lesson was so important that that happened?
Maybe "a better world without God in it" was a bad way to put it. The question that always plagues me is that, say religion is wiped from the face of the earth... what would stop people from finding a different platform to put those same words in someone else mouth? Or just start some other kind of group professing the same things?
[+]
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Daemun said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What lesson was so important that that happened?
Maybe "a better world without God in it" was a bad way to put it. The question that always plagues me is that, say religion is wiped from the face of the earth... what would stop people from finding a different platform to put those same words in someone else mouth? Or just start some other kind of group professing the same things?
Just like the trend amongst many religious people to reject churches, sects, etc.
They still want to believe in some form of a higher power. That's fine. Beyond that, everything else is their beliefs and not that of a higher power.
[+]
That's similar argument Blair have thrown to Hitchens (and he admitted it was a good one) in one debate : Even if religion dies out, it doesn't wipe out fanatics.
[+]
Asura.Vrytreya said: »
That's similar argument Blair have thrown to Hitchens (and he admitted it was a good one) in one debate : Even if religion dies out, it doesn't wipe out fanatics.
LOL! You guys have me actually defending god against religion.
[+]
Odin.Daemun said: »
Saul named Paul after following Jesus. He killed Christians in his past....
He couldn't have killed Christians. He may have killed followers of Christ but they were all Jews until well after Christ died.
Indeed, the proto Christians at an EARLY church council (133 ACE? I forget) chose the Sunday sabbath* as a way to differentiate themselves from the rest of the Jews. A big step in the evolution of the Christian identity. Yes, they had many non Jewish converts at the time.
*The Sunday sabbath is my biggest theological gripe about the vast majority of Christian sects.
My views have always placed us as humans as the problem. We are fallible, flawed and usually act out of self interest. The problems we face in this world are created by ourselves. Someone can blame religion or God for all the world's problems but that isn't where they stem from. People always seem to find a way to hate each other whether its over something as simple as someone being overweight, richer, percieved intelligence, or prettier or with serious things such as differed faith, sexual orientation, or race. I don't care where people find it, whether it be religion, science, witchcraft or whatever, but we need to find a way to tolerate eachother and spend our time bettering ourselves and those around us rather than continue to tear everyone down. No one thing is to blame for all the world's problems though and thats something I can be sure of.
[+]
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2026 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.